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please clean up your mess

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Igor_the_facetious_xmas_bunny_-_NOT_HERE Way out of control. Legacypac (talk) 10:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Someone is 'out of control'. It's not me.Igor the facetious xmas bunny (talk) 11:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Big Mess

As noted above, User:Igor the facetious xmas bunny is continues to be discussed at ANI. The user's behavior is also up for discussion at two seperate threads at WP:AN/3RR (link 1, link 2) and an SPI has been opened here.

With the mess the user has caused (as evidenced by the multiple threads linked above) it might be helpful to know who we are dealing with here. Igor says he/she "confirmed my prior history with" you. Since the user's behavior is less than stellar (ie: edit-warring, socks, gaming the system, ANI thread, 3RR violations, etc.), knowing who they are would be helpful. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 13:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The ANI thread has been closed with the following summary by User:Nick: "GorillaWarfare appears to have taken responsibility for this debacle and will presumably clear up the mess left by Igor the facetious xmas bunny when they return online later. I would have indefinitely blocked the account for disruption, in agreement with several of my fellow administrators, but if GW wants to take responsibility for this disruption, on their head be it. Please, can everybody else return to more productive, fruitful editing."

On the SPI, there is a possible, though currently unconfirmed, connection between Igor and globally-blocked User:Operahome. There is behavioral evidence that leans toward Igor being Operahome. Edits by various IPs connected to Igor after Operahome blocks are very curious. Plus, Operahome and Igor both editing the article/draft for Igor Janev (now SALTed after an Operahome SPI) shows a possible connection as well. User:Toddy1 also claims there is "very good evidence that Igor is Operahome".

I believe a response to all of this is needed from you, especially after the ANI thread being closed and the responsibility for Igor's behavior being placed on your head. - Neutralhomer • Talk • 15:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you are not going to deal with this user can you at least make it clear that at this point enough new edits have been made that you would not consider a reversal to be wheel warring? Your choice to unblock without discussion or consensus has left us hand tied due to wheel warring policies. Chillum 17:53, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for the delay–have been AFK all morning, and am only briefly around right now, though I'll be back later. I would not consider a reversal of the block to be wheel-warring at this point. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:33, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Noting that I haven't had a minute to read through the contribution history since last night, so I can't say whether I agree that my unblock was unwise, but I don't want to hold anything up or have accusations of wheel-warring flying around just because I'm not available at the moment. GorillaWarfare (talk) 21:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

People have occasionally told me that I'm foolish and assume good faith when I shouldn't. To do something unwise, but kind, is not a fault. You tried to help this user and hoped they would do better. We should give your initiative every chance to succeed. I've been asking people to back away from the conflict in hopes that the user will settle down. I recommend people wait a bit longer before deciding what to do. Igor should try to avoid doing anything controversial and see if they can get along. In particular, the soapboxing at User talk: Jimbo Wales should stop. Jehochman ^Talk 22:09, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At this diff he claims to have explained to GW his previous identities. He has already stated he has edited under a different account at User talk:Chillum at this diff - "Yes, I have edited previously under another account; I hope that you understand that that is not a cardinal sin". Can GW confirm this? If not it would demonstrate bad faith. Also, any info given might help at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Igor the facetious xmas bunny. --Mrjulesd (talk) 22:43, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Confirmed. GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For better or for worse, Gorilla, you are now the bunny's keeper. :) Good luck with it. I want to echo Jehochman's comment, and I credit you for sticking your neck out. Drmies (talk) 18:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GW: I think what needs to be explained is under what basis he was granted an alternate legitimate account. I've looked at WP:SOCK and the closest I could come up with, based on his humorous user name, is a humor account. Is this the case? If it could be explained I would be very grateful. --Mrjulesd (talk) 18:47, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like he stopped using the old account and started a new one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it is not done to avoid scrutiny. Suggest we leave well enough alone. Jehochman ^Talk 18:57, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Mrjulesd: If you're looking for the specific part of WP:SOCK, it's "Clean start under a new name" under WP:SOCK#LEGIT. GorillaWarfare (talk) 20:01, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Igor

Hi GW. Could you have a look at recent edits by Igor the facetious xmas bunny to see if they are helpful or not? There's been a bit more edit warring, possibly baited by other editors. I've asked Legacypac to back away, but I'm concerned. Thanks. Jehochman ^Talk 19:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Legacypac (RV 1) put it back, calling my edits vandalism [3].

My first revert asking for refs. [4] Not 'vandalism' at all. Please see WP:BURDEN. Don't add it back without refs, thansk

Legacypac (RV 2) removed it again. [5]

My second revert [6], Please do not add unreferenced info to this BLP. Please discuss it on the talk page. WP:V WP:BURDEN

Then another user - Titusfox - reverted. After discussion, he undid his own revert. [7].

Legacypac (RV 3) [8]

Legacypac is the one edit-warring. As detailed above, 3 times, he has reverted - calling my edits 'vandalism', and introducing unreferenced info to this BLP, without discussing it on the talk page. [9]

I have not attemted to revert it more than the 2 times specified above.

Please deal with the problem of Legacypac a) harassing me, b) edit-warring, c) accusing me of vandalism, d) adding unreferenced material to a BLP.

I'm happy to discuss possible sourcing of those apparently unref'd BLP claims on the talk page.

BTW, although I disagree that the name "Igor the facetious xmas bunny" was in any way disruptive, I have nevertheless changed it. Best, Igor the bunny (talk) 20:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It was very nice for you to accommodate others for no reason other than to make them feel better. We have to get everybody's emotions under control so they can think rationally. We need to convince Legacypac to stop bothering you. I started with a friendly request to them. Let's see how they react. Jehochman ^Talk 21:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, and I'm happy to disengage, apart from leaving the large amount of unref'd information on that BLP, per [10]. I won't (for now) undo it, I'll leave it to you to hopefully fix. Igor the bunny (talk) 21:52, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have to agree that Legacypac's choice to come to that page and begin edit warring with Igor the bunny does give the appearance of hounding. Igor's edits did indeed remove uncited information, and they left a message on the talk page (and edit summary) explaining what they were doing. Legacypac categorizing the edit as vandalism is incorrect, and saying that the material "looks very crediable and is undoubtably sourced in the refs" is not an acceptable form of citation. Given Igor's recent conflicts, walking on eggshells here and not reverting at all (as opposed to just playing by 3RR—it does not always take three edits to make something an edit war) wouldn't hurt, but I do feel that it was Legacypac who was in the wrong here. Legacypac, I strongly recommend that you disengage—your concerns with Igor seem to be clouding your judgment, and are starting to look an awful lot like harassment. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm walking on eggshells - I've not edited it further. I hope others will solve the specific issue of the unref'd text on that BLP.

I'm editing other (pretty random) stuff.

I'm also hoping the ANI will be closed; can't see anything remaining problematic (not ever, really). Igor the bunny (talk) 22:37, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, I could have phrased that a bit better, I suppose. I meant that, in general, walking on eggshells with respect to reverting might help defuse some of the concerns about your editing, not just with that article. Thanks for stepping off like that—I can imagine this is really frustrating. GorillaWarfare (talk) 22:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect, GW, the eggshells Igor is walking on were created by the eggs he himself broke in the ruckus of his not-so-gentle fresh start. In that regard, he's as responsible as anyone else for his situation, if not moreso. I do agree that Legacypac needs to back off and allow things to settle down, but I'm a bit concerned that Igor is being let off the hook here and his role in the entire mess is being downplayed more than is reasonable. BMK (talk) 22:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think we may actually be saying the same thing (minus that he's being let off the hook). Most people would let slide a few reverts like the ones Igor made at Shaiwatna Kupratakul. I'm saying that because of Igor's rough start, they need to be much more careful than any other user to not give the appearance of edit warring, as opposed to merely abiding by 3RR. GorillaWarfare (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think bunny owes me an apology for the above comments. Bunny said: "Jehochman advised me to 'walk away' [11], so I found an entirely unrelated article to work on, in a cleapup category - Shaiwatna Kupratakul (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). A BLP with unreferenced material, tagged as such since Jan 2010. I moved unreferenced claims onto the talk page for possible discussion and potentially adding it with refs [12]."

This is an outright lie used to paint me as someone doing the harassment. The walk away comment was made by User:Jehochman 15:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC). The unrelated article edit was made by bunny at 9:58, 28 December over 5 hours earlier, not after the walk away comment like he claims. My second revert was on 10:25, 28 December 2014‎ still over 5 hours before the walk away comment. Bunny went on to pester another editor into reverting their revert. I indeed walked away after I was asked to except to deal with the ongoing SPI and ANi etc. ~~Later, when I restored the article today, bunny has reverted me again even though above he says he will not do that.~~ I could care less about a retired Thai physicist, but I don't like another user disrupting and making false claims about me. Legacypac (talk) 23:36, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"after the walk away comment like he claims" - I never claimed any such thing. I walked away before being asked to do so. That's not a bad thing?

I have not 'reverted' anything. I hope GW (or other admins) will see who is telling the truth here, and deal with it accordingly. Igor the bunny (talk) 23:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I indeed walked away after I was asked to except to deal with the ongoing SPI and ANi etc - yep, he(she) walked away from everything involving me, except for all the things involving me?!

I restored the article today, bunny has reverted me again - nope, I did not. Check the history. I did not perform any such edit today.

P.S. In concluding this issue, please consider my complaint that there remain unreferenced claims on the BLP, (re)inserted by Legacypac [13].

I have no wish to re-engage with any articles he's battled me over, but I'm concerned about leaving a BLP with unreferenced claims.Igor the bunny (talk) 23:48, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like you to consider his/her accusation that I made an "Outright lie" [14]. I've complained repeatedly about harassment here, and I can understand a certain amount being tolerated, and being told to 'let it go away'. But this has gone on for too long.

Legacypac has accused me of many things, and I'd like something done about it. If nothing can be done right now, please direct me to the right place to seek appropriate action - RFC/U or arb or whatever? I'm sick of the harassment, and it's gone too far to ignore it and walk away. Igor the bunny (talk) 23:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Igor, drop the sticks, all of them, walk away from all the articles which have been the bone of this contention, resist the temptation to get retribution or "justice", go somewhere else completely unrelated to anything you've done before and anywhere Legacypac has been --Wikipedia is a very big place. If Legacypac follows you there, then we'll know what's what. If, on the other hand, he stays away and the response to your editing in the new place is another ruckus, then we'll know who's responsible. If, instead, everything is peaceful, then there will be joy in the Wikiworld. BMK (talk) 23:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) @Legacypac: My concern here was the choice to follow Igor to that article, not whether this happened before or after the two of you were advised to walk away. Igor did not revert you today, he added a refimprove-blp template. Do you feel that template is in error?

You blindly accepted his false charge against me, that I've now demonstrated to be based on a lie. You should admit you wrong. I can't understand how you can't see his behavior as disruptive when so many Admins and Users disagree, but hey, you have the big hammer and he's your pet so its your problem. If he comes near me again or accuses me of any more problems I'll deal with it appropriately. I only followed him in an effort to minimize damage to various articles as he ran around causing trouble. I make constructive edits, not destroy stuff and anger good editors. Legacypac (talk) 00:22, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please point me to where I said anything that indicated that I agreed (or even cared) that the edits to Shaiwatna Kupratakul came after the advice to walk away, and I will strike them. If by "have the big hammer" you mean I am an arbitrator, I don't see how I used that to influence anything here. The only mention I've made of the Arbitration Committee in this whole incident is below, where Igor asked if that was the correct place to go, and on ANI, where I affirmed that I was not acting as an arbitrator. I stated above that I would not consider reversal of my admin action to unblock to be wheelwarring, and I stated on ANI that I was completely open to review of the block. I'm not sure what more you think I can do, short of resign from the Arbitration Committee, to make this seem equivalent to review of any other administrator's action. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:33, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Igor the bunny: If you want outside comment on the behavior here, WP:ANI would be the place to go. WP:RFC/U was recently closed down, so the next step would be arbitration, but I doubt this issue would be considered "ripe". That said, you are welcome to file a request if you disagree. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That said, I like BMK's suggestion better than ANI or arbitration. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:06, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Either the underlined statement by bunny is the truth or its a lie. The time logs don't lie. Legacypac (talk) 00:04, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Legacypac - It could also be a simple misapprehension based on when Igor learned of the various statements. You, too, should let it go. BMK (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Christ. Jehochman told you two to walk away at 21:56, 28 December 2014. Igor first edited Shaiwatna Kupratakul at 09:54, 28 December 2014. You are correct that Igor edited an unrelated article before being asked to walk away. I do not see why this matters. Both of you, please disengage with one another. GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:14, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@G In 6 years here, I've yet to see anything good come from ANI. I'll "consider the options".

(I'll ignore what Legacypac posted here as obviously incorrect) Igor the bunny (talk) 00:08, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Igor - Could you indent your comments in the normal fashion? Thanks. BMK (talk) 00:12, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Any in particular? Sorry, not sure which you mean; feel free to indent my comments; I'll shout if I object. Thanks, Igor the bunny (talk) 00:15, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, did you mean this where I put a semi-colon instead of a colon? If so, sorry; it was a genuine typo. Igor the bunny (talk) 00:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Legacypac: I've changed your edit to your comment to strike the bit you removed, rather than remove it completely. Considering it's been replied to in detail here, removing it makes the following conversation pretty confusing, so striking is much more appropriate (per advice at WP:REDACT). GorillaWarfare (talk) 00:42, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I misspoke, and realized looking more closely it was a tag not a revert today - I assumed it was a revert based on things bunny said and seeing he was the last person to edit the article. Not my core point anyway, he just brushed off my core point that the whole complaint was based on an incorrect characterization of the timing of events. I don't like your conclusion that "but I do feel that it was Legacypac who was in the wrong here. Legacypac, I strongly recommend that you disengage—your concerns with Igor seem to be clouding your judgment, and are starting to look an awful lot like harassment." because it immediately follows what I've demonstrated to be a false accusation and mischaracterization of what happened. Did I hound bunny? Maybe I did for a while. He started by tagging my new article for deletion inappropriately, then slapping a BLP on a guy that has been dead for 170 years, then cut out work history on a retired scientist, and other stupid stuff. I took him for a facetious vandel out to make a WP:POINT and dealt with his activity as he piled on more and more stupid actions, taunting people all the way. My view of him and his activity was and is shared by many other editors - so kindly don't look at one or two of my actions on one article in isolation based on a false timeline presented by bunny. I would never suggest you give up an elected position over this, but its pretty obvious that Admins defer to an Arb Com member pretty quick around here. Legacypac (talk) 01:02, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Co-op

Hey Molly. I think I only briefly talked to you about the Co-op at Wikimania this past summer; we're looking to get our pilot started late in January 2015, and we're looking for folks who might be interested in mentoring one or two people during the month o' piloting. I figure it's a long shot to ask knowing you have commitments to ArbCom and elsewhere, but I wanted to pitch it your way in case you were interested and had the time. I also just generally feel like you would be a good fit for mentoring. If you're interested, you can sign up here and check out / ask questions about how the Co-op will work. Thanks a bunch, I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 03:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! Yeah, between the Committee and going back to classes, I don't think I'd be able to dedicate the time or energy to mentoring. Thanks for thinking of me, though, and I wish you the best of luck. GorillaWarfare (talk) 04:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kudos

You have the patience of a saint. — Ched : ? 01:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 147: / Line 147: @@
 Hey Molly.  I think I only briefly talked to you about [[WP:CO-OP|the Co-op]] at Wikimania this past summer; we're looking to get our pilot started late in January 2015, and we're looking for folks who might be interested in mentoring one or two people during the month o' piloting.  I figure it's a long shot to ask knowing you have commitments to ArbCom and elsewhere, but I wanted to pitch it your way in case you were interested and had the time.  I also just generally feel like you would be a good fit for mentoring.  If you're interested, you can [[Wikipedia_talk:Co-op#Mentors_for_the_Co-op_Pilot_.28Jan._2015_-_Feb._2015.29|sign up here]] and check out / ask questions about [[Wikipedia talk:Co-op#Pre-pilot discussions for mentors|how the Co-op will work]].  Thanks a bunch, [[User:I JethroBT|<font color="green" face="Candara"><b>I, JethroBT</b></font>]][[User talk:I JethroBT| <sup>drop me a line</sup>]] 03:57, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 :Hi! Yeah, between the Committee and going back to classes, I don't think I'd be able to dedicate the time or energy to mentoring. Thanks for thinking of me, though, and I wish you the best of luck. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]] <small>[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|(talk)]]</small> 04:22, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
+== Kudos ==
+You have the patience of a saint. — <small><span class="nowrap" style="border:1px solid #000000;padding:1px;"><b>[[User:Ched|Ched]]</b> : [[User_talk:Ched|<font style="color:#FFFFFF;background:#0000fa;">&nbsp;?&nbsp;</font>]]</span></small> 01:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)