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These sources fail the point. [[User:Lorstaking|Lorstaking]] ([[User talk:Lorstaking|talk]]) 11:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
These sources fail the point. [[User:Lorstaking|Lorstaking]] ([[User talk:Lorstaking|talk]]) 11:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Mar4d}} you are supposed to carry on discussion here in place of restoring the disputed edit. Do you have any source that qualifies more than just passing mention? [[User:Sdmarathe|Sdmarathe]] ([[User talk:Sdmarathe|talk]]) 19:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:42, 5 July 2018

Former good article nomineeRegional power was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 17, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
June 6, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee


New entries

I reckon more countries should be added to the list. This article is about regional powers, not world powers. Some countries might seem to be “average” compared to other powerful countries, but considering the world is not evenly developed (it has never been evenly developed anyway), some countries should be included as long as they are powerful in their geographic region and its nearby areas.

I would like to propose the addition of the following new entries:

Central Asia: Kazakhstan (a member state of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation)

Central Africa: Democratic Republic of the Congo (powerful in a weak region)

East Africa: Ethiopia (powerful in a weak region)

North Africa: Egypt (standout in their region and its nearby areas)

West Africa: Nigeria (standout in their region and its nearby areas)

Guys, please let me know your thoughts. Thanks. 120.156.138.87 (talk) 10:26, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war over Israel inclusion

Hi 85.144.61.254 and Pixarkid101, I would encourage you to discuss your views on inclusion of Israel here. Other editors can also present their views here and a meaningful discussion can take place.Please do not engage in an edit war. Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello 85.144.61.254. I apologize that I keep on removing Israel on this list of regional powers. I'm not being anti-Semitic, neither being publicly resistant of Israel. However, I don't think the State of Israel is a regional power, at least not yet. Look at Israel, and it's surrounding countries. Israel is not recognized by any of these countries, except for Turkey, Cyprus, Egypt, and Jordan. The rest of the middle east does not recognize Israel. Israel usually has allies with western countries, such as Europe or America. But The middle eastern countries don't want to recognize Israel, and many of these countries are threatening to Israel, including Iran. The reason Saudi Arabia and Iran are considered regional powers is that they have a huge influence and cooperation with many countries in the Middle East. Israel has no influence and cooperation in the region, and only has influence and cooperation in western countries. I hope you please understand that Israel is not yet a regional power. Is has much political, economic, and social power like other western countries, but it doesn't have cooperation with most of the countries in it's region. So please don't include Israel in it unless it starts to have peace with countries in the middle east, being recognized by them, and cooperates with them [1] [2] Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).. Thanks. -- Pixarkid101

Israel is a regional power, and this is supported by references. Wikipedia is based on the usage of citations, not truthiness.--MarshalN20 ✉🕊 16:20, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270508016_Israel_The_Partial_Regional_Power_in_the_Middle_East
  2. ^ https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137484758_8

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Addition of new countries

Some new countries like Egypt, Kazakhstan, Nigeria have been recently added to this list. I feel we need a more detailed discussion before we keep on adding new countries to this list and what sources/criteria are required. Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 09:50, 27 January 2018 (UTC) 2001:8003:8612:EA00:B8C4:E2D2:3B14:2A5E Please discuss your changes here until then maintain WP:STATUSQUO. Adamgerber80 (talk) 10:12, 27 January 2018 (UTC) 120.156.138.87 I don't see any discussion here. Please do not edit the page until this discussion is over, which can take days at times. Please be patient. Adamgerber80 (talk) 10:19, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I reckon more countries should be added to the list. This article is about regional powers, not world powers. Some countries might seem to be “average” compared to other powerful countries, but considering the world is not evenly developed (it has never been evenly developed anyway), some countries should be included as long as they are powerful in their geographic region and its nearby areas.
I would like to propose the addition of the following new entries:
Central Asia: Kazakhstan (a member state of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation)
Central Africa: Democratic Republic of the Congo (powerful in a weak region)
East Africa: Ethiopia (powerful in a weak region)
North Africa: Egypt (standout in their region and its nearby areas)
West Africa: Nigeria (standout in their region and its nearby areas)
Guys, please let me know your thoughts. Thanks. 2001:8003:8612:EA00:B8C4:E2D2:3B14:2A5E (talk) 10:47, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Especially, I would like to point out Nigeria. I noticed that South Africa is already in the list of regional powers. Nigeria now has a bigger GDP than South Africa. It is also a big country and rich in resources. It is one of the Top 10 most populous countries in the world, it has almost 20% of Africa’s total population. On top of everything, it has the biggest city on the African continent: Lagos. Lagos is fast becoming the New York City of Africa with big multinational corporations setting up their African head offices there and a fast growing finance industry.
If Nigeria is not included, I would rather spend my time in the gym than editing articles in Wikipedia. 120.156.138.87 (talk) 11:11, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
2001:8003:8612:EA00:B8C4:E2D2:3B14:2A5E, 120.156.138.87 We need WP:RS to include any of these countries. Quora is not considered a WP:RS since it a WP:SPS. The sources currently provided are not WP:SPS and not acceptable. Adamgerber80 (talk) 15:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 27 January 2018

Remove Nigeria and Egypt from the list. Both these countries were not present before and have been added using WP:SPS. One is quora and the other is an article from an editorial board. We need WP:RS from neutral authoritative sources before we can add them back. The editors who are currently adding this are discussing their inclusion. Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 15:42, 27 January 2018 (UTC) Adamgerber80 (talk) 15:42, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:52, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MSGJ There is no WP:RS for their inclusion as of yet. The editors have provided a link to Quora and other WP:SPS to justify their inclusion (check the page itself). The discussion and the page protection have been initiated by me to reach a consensus on their inclusion per WP:RS which have not yet been provided. Adamgerber80 (talk) 19:18, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I understand but still need another editor to confirm that these additions are not warranted. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 20:37, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
El C Can you please chime in? Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 20:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that Kazakhstan was a bit much, but Nigeria and Egypt are both on the map, so with the right refs, I don't see the issue. El_C 07:51, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
El C The map is outdated. These countries have been removed quite some time ago. The references provided as of now are WP:SPS. I am confused how can we re-add these countries under these conditions. The edtior(s) (I think it is only one on 2 IPs) in question have not yet provided a authoritative reference. Adamgerber80 (talk) 08:19, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how the map could be outdated, but I agree that if the sources are not provided, they can be removed. El_C 08:43, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
El C The map was last updated on 13 October 2015. That is almost 2 years ago. I am not opposed to addition of those countries given we have the requisite references. The IP in question made this comment "If Nigeria is not included, I would rather spend my time in the gym than editing articles in Wikipedia." which seems frivolous to me. Adamgerber80 (talk) 09:12, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, this article is constantly subject to petty nationalism and the deletion of sourced content. Searching in past versions, I found two citations that support the inclusion of Nigeria:

  1. "West Africa, with its strong French influence, is home to one of Africa's two regional giants, Nigeria, and the region has seen the scene of much political and ethnic unrest." See David Lynch, Trade and Globalization (Lanham, USA: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2010), p. 51.
  2. "South Africa is not the sole regional power on the continent, though; Nigeria is the other widely acknowledge centre of power in Africa and likewise a sub-regional superpower in West Africa." See Deon Geldenhuys, "South Africa: The Idea-driven Foreign Policy of a Regional Power," in Regional Leadership in the Global System, edited by Daniel Flemes (Farnham, UK: Ashgate, 2010), p. 151.

The map in question actually reflects a much more complete listing of countries, by regions and sub-regions, that a combination of malicious and ignorant editing removed from the article.--MarshalN20 ✉🕊 09:37, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

MarshalN20 Thanks a lot for your input on Nigeria. IMO we have enough references for Nigeria. I am not completely convicted about Egypt though. First, Egypt has always been mentioned under Africa/North Africa not Transcontinental. Second, there has been some literature post 2015 which states that Egypt is no longer a regional power. ([1],[2],[3],[4]). Happy to discuss more. Adamgerber80 (talk) 14:35, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, there seems to be more evidence explaining why Egypt is not a regional power than supporting it to currently be one.--MarshalN20 ✉🕊 19:39, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
El C,MarshalN20 The page has now been unprotected. I propose we let Nigeria remain in the list but update the quora source with the above sources. Additionally, we remove Egypt from the list until we find more authoritative references. Does this sound good? Thanks. Adamgerber80 (talk) 16:18, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The main problem with the article is not the countries listed. Focusing too much on that detracts from the larger issue, which is that of defining the regions in which these "regional powers" operate. Nigeria isn't a continental power, so listing it under "Africa" is an exaggeration. The sources indicate that it's a power in West Africa. Is South Africa a power in all of Africa? Regions are far more numerous than continents, and the existence of a "transcontinental" list is outside the scope of this article.--MarshalN20 ✉🕊 19:25, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MarshalN20 Nigeria, when it was listed in the article, was mentioned under West Africa. Similarly, Russia and Turkey were not mentioned as trans-continental powers. I think the issues is multi-fold. We first need to trim the countries based on the sources we have. Then assign them with the relevant regions. I would consider South-Africa a Southern Africa regional power which is reflected in the sources. Adamgerber80 (talk) 23:46, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Should Europe be split into regions?

If yes, I would like to propose the addition of the following new entries:

Northern Europe

Western Europe

  •  France (already on the list)

Eastern Europe

Southern Europe

  •  Italy (already on the list)

If you don't agree, that's fine. I was just making a suggestion. And how about adding Thailand, Malaysia, the Philippines and Singapore in Southeast Asia, Hong Kong and Taiwan in East Asia, Egypt in Africa and the UAE in Western Asia? --2A02:2149:826D:7A00:4D16:C812:1F72:30DA (talk) 17:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan

@Adamgerber80, Sdmarathe, and Usman47: Here is quick analysis of the sources used by Usman47.

  • [5] = From 2002. States Hungary Sweden and more as "middle powers".
  • [6] Shanghai Cooperation organisation list. That is no description for "regional power".
  • [7] Unreliable source, which sentence say Pakistan is a regional power?
  • [8] Unreliable source.
  • [9] Unreliable again.
  • [10] provide quote for this. Where you were reading that source say Pakistan is a regional power?
  • [11] regional nuclear power? How's that "Regional power".

These sources fail the point. Lorstaking (talk) 11:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Mar4d: you are supposed to carry on discussion here in place of restoring the disputed edit. Do you have any source that qualifies more than just passing mention? Sdmarathe (talk) 19:42, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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