Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

Not to be confused with Wikipedia talk:WikiProject American football, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian rules football, or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canadian football.

Nationality again

Apparently Martinique is "not a FIFA nation" and so the player's nationality is French. Yet Martinique national football team exists, and while they're not recognized by FIFA, they are recognized. Comments? Guidance. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Martinique is an overseas department of France, and it's football association is not associated with FIFA. It is a member of CONCACAF, which makes it eligible for CONCACAF competitions like the Gold Cup. In describing a footballer's sporting nationality, I think you could say "Martinique international" (if the player is capped), but otherwise I think it's more appropriate to describe the player as French (if you must, and it's easy enough to include the player's place of birth to show the Martinique connection). Jogurney (talk) 20:28, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

The roster templates we use do not support a second field for place of birth. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

It's tricky since some overseas departments are FIFA members (New Caledonia) and others aren't (Martinique). A bit of research shows you can represent both Martinique and France internationally, so I'd stick to French, recognising my answer would probably be different if the player were New Caledonian. SportingFlyer T·C 23:50, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

He's French, representing Martinique. An odd one, but is functionally the same as a Jersey / Guernsey player per List of England international footballers born outside England for instance. Koncorde (talk) 10:22, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Some lame argument. To be very accurate, it should be British footballer who represented England/Wales/Scotland national team. Or since BOTC are BC now, it should be a British footballer who represented Gibraltar/Bermuda/British Virgin Islands etc. However, footballer should shown "sport nationality" instead of real passport (or please add back British to every article until Scotland/N.Ireland-exit). However, the only problem would be Martinique is not a member of FIFA, but an associate member of CONCACAF (edit: full member). For players that only played in Martinique domestic league, i don't mind just keep Martinique in lede. But for France proper (the European part of French Republic) born player that also represented Martinique national team, may be better keep them as French. Matthew hk (talk) 22:27, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Not sure if referring to me, but as far as I am concerned the correct way to refer to "English" players should be by their nationality first (i.e. British). The use of sporting nationalities as functionally the same as representative nationality for me is half the problem. The lede should be simple, either:

1. is a French footballer, born in Martinique. Represents Martinique internationally.

2. Is a footballer who plays for Martinique.

Per below from GS. Koncorde (talk) 15:51, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

For players Martinique born & raised use 'Jean Smith is a Martinique footballer'. For others, do what we always do if a player was born in one country but represents another - 'Jean Smith is a footballer. Born in France, he represents Martinique at international level'. GiantSnowman 15:35, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Since the question asks which flag to use in an infobox, I'd use French in all instances, since Martinique is not a member of FIFA. SportingFlyer T·C 20:42, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Flag is another issue. the official flag of Martinique should be tricolor France flag, the Martinique flag in sport and in the "country data template" actually an unofficial flag. Matthew hk (talk) 09:42, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

1949–50 Colchester United F.C. season

I was curious, where did this sit in terms of WP:NSEASONS? The sources look like mainly primary sources. Govvy (talk) 12:28, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Almost all the references are to Coludata.co.uk, which is not operated by the club itself as far as I can see and therefore not a primary source -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:34, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

It fails WP:NSEASONS. Number 57 11:29, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't think there is a definitive point where a season becomes non-notable, but being in the same league as Torquay Reserves isn't a promising sign.--EchetusXe 20:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion a WP:NSEASONS failure (it's really poorly defined) can still be overcome on WP:GNG grounds, but I don't see enough sourced material here showing the season was covered in any sort of substantial detail. SportingFlyer T·C 21:38, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

In think the season article has to consider one of a series of season articles for a club that has been a professional football club for 80 years, all but two in the Football League. The season in question was the one where they earned election to the Football League, which gives the season notability. The fact of their election to the football league is certainly verifiable through national press, even if the article doesn't include such sources. Verifiability is the requirement, not that it is verified in the artice, and I doubt anyone will dispute the fact they they were elected to the football league and have been part of it almost continuously since then.   Jts1882 | talk  11:43, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

So if there were more independent sources it should pass WP:GNG, I can see that, however the way I see it and under current guidelines, this and the previous seasons should be removed, the following season should be where the season pages start from in my view, it's a shame, Jasonakagary88 has done good work creating them. Govvy (talk) 13:59, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Template:English football updater

How come this is already being updated to reflect division changes which impact divisions which haven't even finished their current season? We now have the Leyton Orient article saying they "currently play in League Two" even though the 2018-19 League Two season hasn't finished yet..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:26, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

I would say that it should only be updated once each league's season has finished. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:55, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that there is ambiguity for the period when the season ends (and the club no longer plays in Division X) and the next season (when they currently play in Division Y). It's not correct to say that Leyton Orient currently play in either. Unless there is a more sophisticated way of modifying the text to say where they will play next season, it would be better to make the changes on July 1st or whenever the official change of season occurs.   Jts1882 | talk  06:27, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

We had a similar discussion last year at Template talk:Scottish football updater and the consensus was to wait until the league in question was finished. Whilst there are still games to go, Leyton Orient are still in the National League and I think we waited until the playoffs concluded before we updated them but I could be wrong for the Premiership teams as the playoff final is usually the last game of the season and it was updated before then. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 06:55, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

On a side note, when should the “current season” in the league infobox change? For example, when the 2018-19 season ends or when the 2019-20 starts? Nehme1499 (talk) 07:35, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, it was me that updated the new leagues for three clubs whose seasons are complete and their divisions next season are definite (Orient, Torquay and Stockport). My rationale was that we usually get editors trying to update the leagues of clubs as soon as promotion is confirmed, which usually involves removing the updater if it hasn't been updated already. I wasn't planning on doing any of the others until the FA release their league allocations. Number 57 11:34, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I supported the introduction of the updater in the hope it'd stop the premature addition of leagues the clubs don't play in, not institutionalise it. According to all reliable sources, Leyton Orient do not play in League Two and we shouldn't be claiming they do at least until the League Two season finishes. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

OK, I've undone the league changes for Orient, Torquay and Stockport. If anyone sees any other issues with my updates, they're welcome to ping me (I only saw this discussion when commenting on another). Number 57 11:54, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. I've watchlisted those three clubs, for when the enthusiasts notice... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 12:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

• For the future, I don't see any problem with saying something like English League Two
  English League One (2019-20, promoted) in the infobox during the time between the end of the season and the start of the next. SportingFlyer T·C 23:42, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Youth player club categories

I believe we used to have consensus that players who never went beyond a club's youth team still got categorised as a player of that club, and that we didn't have specific youth player club categories? An editor was removing Category:FC Barcelona players from Jon Toral, and when reverted, added the then non-existent Category:FC Barcelona youth players, and then created and started to populate it. Was wondering what the general view is these days on separate youth player cats for clubs. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:21, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes I noticed this as well - there is consensus that we do not have 'youth' categories for clubs. GiantSnowman 11:23, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

The creation of Category:Celtic F.C. Under-20s and Academy players at the beginning of last year triggered a similar discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 114#Academy player categories, which led to the category being redirected to Category:Celtic F.C. players. LTFC 95 (talk) 18:06, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Ferran Corominas

Requesting protection for this article amidst unconfirmed transfer rumours. --BlameRuiner (talk) 15:38, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done, though future requests can be made at WP:RFPP. GiantSnowman 16:44, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Alan Rhodes

Two rugby league players and one footballer who I think might all be the same person. Discussion started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby league#Alan Rhodes, input welcome! GiantSnowman 18:19, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

National team squad navigational boxes for UEFA Nations League Finals?

From past discussions on this project and TfD nominations, there is a consensus to only create international squad navboxes (i.e. Template:Iceland squad UEFA Euro 2016) for the World Cup, Confederations Cup, Olympics and each continent's top level competition, men and women. However, recently the UEFA Nations League and CONCACAF Nations League competitions have been created for national teams. In a few weeks the squads for the 2019 UEFA Nations League Finals will be announced, and I suspect templates such as {{England squad 2019 UEFA Nations League Finals}} might be created. Should there be team squad templates for the finals of this new competition, or should they be avoided/deleted if created? S.A. Julio (talk) 07:47, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I suggest they should be taken to TfD, where I would !vote to delete. The Nations League finals is a four-team tournament that lasts less than a week. I don't think a squad template is particularly necessary for a minor continental competition. – PeeJay 08:04, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Agree with PeeJay. GiantSnowman 08:16, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

As The competition largely replaces the international friendly matches previously played on the FIFA International Match Calendar I'd say according to our consensus there's no point in squad navboxes. --SuperJew (talk) 10:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Christian Eriksen

[1] , was this disruptive edit automatically accepted? Govvy (talk) 17:38, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

The diff / page history says it was a pending revision, so I'd say no. Spike 'em (talk) 09:19, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Though the user who made the edit is Autoconfirmed, so according to WP:PC has rights to edit the article, and Pending Changes does nothing to spot non-constructive edits, only slows down new editors. Spike 'em (talk) 09:32, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

A gap in Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Players' career statistics chart

I noticed that the Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Players article does not specify if we should use the same pattern for the lines of apps and goals (i.e. League - Cup - Continental - Other) for every player article in this encyclopedia.

I'm mostly editing Brazilian and Spanish football, and while in Brazil I use the League - State League - Cup - Continental - Other pattern (since state leagues in Brazil are a very present championship and some of the teams do not have any national leagues to play) and in Spain, I use the League - Cup - Continental - Other (since there are no more "League Cup" tournaments or so on). However, I did notice that in England the most commom pattern is League - Cup - League Cup - Continental - Other.

Taking for an example Elias Martello Curzel, @Davidlofgren1996 changed the chart to a more "international" pattern, but he took Copa FGF as a national cup, which is wrong. Copa FGF is at most a state cup, so it's neither a state league nor a national cup.

My question is: should we standardize it? How many lines should we have in the chart? It gets very confusing since one user can establish his/her own standard. MYS77 ^✉ 19:15, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

I think if we already have the stats charts (which is another issue which should be debated IMO in another thread), then there should be a consistent standard between them, especially as players can and do move between leagues - a player won't necessarily be only in Brazilian or only Spanish football and as said above there are different patterns more appropriate to each. But in one table for a player it should be a consistent table, so therefore should be standard across the stats charts. Once we decide a consensus on what should be the standard, I also think we should have it as a template, to make it easier for new users to the field and who are less familiar with the consensus reached to keep to the standard. --SuperJew (talk) 20:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

In my limited experience, Brazilian state leagues have been categorised as 'Other' (see eg Rivaldinho). GiantSnowman 07:59, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman: This leads to a bunch of questions, such as: why Brazilian leagues should be categorised as 'Other' and the English League Cups should have a line? State leagues are as important in Brazil as League Cups are in England... And to categorise state leagues as 'Other' is a pretty way to mess up the sum and add a bunch of notes, since a non-division club (i.e. Portuguesa) would play in the state league and in some state cup to complete the year-long calendar (in this case, Copa Paulista). This state cup would be (and is currently) categorised as 'Other'. MYS77 ^✉ 14:19, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Numerous countries have league cups, not just England - but how many countries have a 'state league' set-up like Brazil? GiantSnowman 14:20, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I have to disagree with categorising state leagues in Brazil as "other". Most Brazilian players will play much more often in state leagues than they will in national leagues, and these leagues are notable enough to warrant season articles on wikipedia (when anyone can be bothered creating them). When editing Brazilian player articles I mostly see a split between what MYS77 describes and an approach which has the state league "season" as a separate line in the table to the national league "season", thus maintaining a league - cup - continental - other layout which matches other countries. I prefer the former, which is fine for the vast majority of players who don't leave Brazil, but appreciate a more compromising approach may be needed for expats. Gricehead (talk) 15:37, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

@Gricehead: Yep, that's exactly what I'm asking... For an example, I do categorise state leagues in 'Others' when it comes to non-Brazilian players (i.e. Jonathan Copete, Carlos Andrés Sánchez), since they didn't play in a state league for the vast majority of their careers. What I'm trying to do here is to know if it's okay to add them for Brazilian players who played the most of his career in Brazil. MYS77 ^✉ 19:55, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Same with Christian Cueva - we should not categorise State League differently for different players. Either it has its own column for all, or it is 'Other' for all. GiantSnowman 07:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

The other category tends to imply less important games. Brazil is unuusual in having state leagues as an important part of their football structure. Wikipedia presentation should reflect this. While generalisation and standardisation are good guiding principles, flexibility and completeness are also important. Here I favour the latter pair.   Jts1882 | talk  08:36, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I've also always categorised state league stats in "Other", due to other examples such as Neymar. However, I'm in favour of adding a state league column for all players; makes sense given their importance in Brazilian football. R96Skinner (talk) 09:07, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

@MYS77: I have been thinking about this for a while, and most of my Brazilian page creations have fit with the way I format the stats. However, I think for Brazilian footballers (who have played in their respective state leagues), there should be a standard.

I think that League - State League - Cup - Continental - Other works, with competitions such as the Copa Paulista falling under the 'Other' category. If a player moves to a team that competes in a League Cup, this should be specified, i.e. League - State League - FA Cup - League Cup - Continental - Other. This makes sense to me as some players would never play in a league cup, and some would never play in a state league, therefore they should be added when necessary. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 15:04, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Just as an example, I have updated Adílio (footballer) to this new format. This player has played in both Brazil and Portugal, has played in a state league and a league cup, so I have blanked out the state league column for the Portuguese clubs, and blanked out the league cup column for the Brazilian clubs. Davidlofgren1996 (talk) 15:16, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ah, also in Adílio (footballer), @Davidlofgren1996 and I were raising another question: when a player is only playing in a Brazilian lower league structure (basically in a "non-division" status, only playing state leagues and cup state leagues), should we add the state leagues in the Division column or not? I, in my current edits, do this type of approach (Diego Pituca is a clear example), but David thinks it's not actually accurate to add them to avoid confusion (and I do think he has a point there, but adding is quite correct in the Brazilian football structure). What do you guys think @Jts1882, @R96Skinner, @Gricehead, @GiantSnowman? MYS77 ^✉ 22:08, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Can only echo what you said, @MYS77. I do the same in terms of division, e.g. Leomir Soares Cruz, but understand it could lead to confusion but it's probably the best way to display - unless we agree to switch to adding a state league column, then it would be self-explantory so no need to add state league under division. R96Skinner (talk) 22:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Record section of Mohamed Salah

What in the world happened to the record section on the Mohamed Salah article. it looks like some Liverpool fanboy or proud Egyptian tried to add as many records as possible. I know the consensus of this particular issue, that not all records are equally important to include, which is why many got deleted both from Messi's and Cristiano's pages. Of course it's not up to me to decide or anything, but I see a clear bias and problem with this, as other footballers had similar records taken away from their pages, but somehow Salah's get to stay?

Fourth Fastest Player to reach 50 Goals Milestone in Premier League history: 72 games (only Andy Cole (65), Alan Shearer (66) and Ruud van Nistelrooy (68), have reached the milestone in fewer appearances) What the hell is even this?? that's not even a record, far from it actually. Fourth? really?
Egypt's Third all-time top scorers: 39 goals (behind Hossam Hassan 69 goals, and Hassan El-Shazly 42 goals) Third??? so, also not a record.
Highest-scoring Egyptian in Serie A history: 35 goals in 81 games Might as well do the same for other footballers then? would mean we get to double or even triple the record section of both Messi and Cristiano with this logic.
Most goals by an African player in a UEFA Champions League season: 11 goals in 2017–18 This one makes a little more sense, but still, would need to add the same to other footballers pages too.
Highest-scoring Egyptian in Premier League history: 50 goals in 72 games Should we do this for all nationalities who scored most goals in a leage?? SteamingStars (talk) 16:13, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Can all be removed in my opinion. Kante4 (talk) 16:23, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. Anything of note (ie actual achievements covered in detail by reliable sources) can be mentioned. GiantSnowman 16:59, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

You mean it isn't worth noting that he's the all-time highest-scoring Egyptian in Premier League history out of a huge total of ELEVEN players? You know, you may be right ;-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:03, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of not including anything that wasn't actually awarded by a governing body. Being a top scorer with an RS is suitable for prose in most occasions, but hardly in the achievements section. These fit statistics cruft to me. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:07, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

Notts County F.C.

Some eyes on this article would be useful as I'm already up to three reverts. Semi-protection would be particularly helpful! Cheers, Number 57 19:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

But you're an admin, you could do it yourself! :/ Govvy (talk) 19:20, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Given that it's not obvious vandalism and I've already reverted three times, some people may take an issue with me semi-protecting it. Although Kante4 has helped out, it's still being changed. Number 57 20:12, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

@Number 57: Cleaned it up a bit. Just semi-protect it. It's not that controversial - I for one support you. SportingFlyer T·C 23:39, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Navboxes

Is there any reason for the space between the navboxes at the bottom of this page but not this one? I can't work it out. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 10:56, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Stevie fae Scotland: The Kilmarnock seasons template had a use DMY dates template attached, which created a line break. I've removed it on consistency grounds/fixed the issue (if this is wrong, revert me.) SportingFlyer T·C 11:41, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think navboxes need those templates, do they? Thank you very much for sorting it Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 11:45, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't think so either, but willing to admit I'm wrong if it comes down to it. SportingFlyer T·C 11:46, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Stoke City formation date

Please can someone ensure this article stops being reverted.

While the club itself claims 1863 as its formation date, there is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case, and plenty of evidence that Stoke Ramblers, who merged with Stoke Victoria CC in 1878 to form Stoke FC, were formed in 1863.

Field magazine of 1868 states that ‘a new club has been formed [in Stoke-upon-Trent] for the practice of the association rules under the charge of H.J. Almond’, and the Birmingham Daily Post reported on a Stoke Ramblers game in 1868 by saying that the club was newly founded that season.

These sources are continually removed from the article, and the incorrect information put back on. Again, there is NO evidence that the club was formed in 1863. A date cannot be accepted as fact just because the club itself says so. Same goes for Worksop Town, Cray Wanderers and plenty of others.

Just because a year is on a club badge, doesn't mean this should be accepted as evidence of a club's foundation year. Kivo (talk) 17:29, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

I'd put 1863 or 1868 (disputed), and then outline the background in the club history section Jopal22 (talk) 17:48, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

It's not really disputed among football historians though. There is zero evidence that Stoke City were formed in 1863. Contemporary reports (Field magazine, Birmingham Daily Post) all state that the Stoke Ramblers club was new in 1868. Kivo (talk) 18:11, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

How about you and Add92 stop edit-warring, as you are both in danger of breaching WP:3RR (sorry I miscounted edits) and try to find a compromise which mentions both years and the doubts. How reliable is the playingpasts website? I saw something come up on twitter about this today, which I guess is what the impetus behind this. Spike 'em (talk) 17:51, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

References

The Playing Pasts website includes original research, and the Birmingham Daily Post source (which keeps getting deleted) is as contemporary as you can get - it quite clearly states that the club was a new one created for that season (1868/69) Kivo (talk) 18:11, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, I will edit the article to show 1863 as being disputed, while showing why 1868 is generally accepted by most football historians. It will be reverted. Kivo (talk) 18:29, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Even the source you state says "However, the origins and early history of the club is unclear." I would say the club celebrates 1863 as the date of formation, but some football historians contest this and believe the club was formed in 1868.

To say "1868 is generally accepted by most football historians" is way too strong. Plus you shouldn't just go ahead and make changes again if the article is in dispute. Suggest a change on the talk page and try and reach consensus. Jopal22 (talk) 18:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Vic Kamara

Hello. Can anyone check this article. Has Kamara played and scored for Eupen, Kecskeméti and Kasımpaşa? Does he pass WP:NFOOTY? I have doubts. Thanks and regards, Biwom (talk) 00:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@Biwom: I share those doubts - I suggest you PROD. GiantSnowman 10:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I also share those doubts. Found absolutely nothing in a web search. Searching his full name brought up only Wikipedia on one search, first time that has ever happened. SportingFlyer T·C 10:43, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

According to the TFF website, no Kamara played for Kasımpaşa during the 2015–16 or 2016–17 seasons. Looks like a hoax article. Jogurney (talk) 14:17, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Is winning promotion an "honour"?

Quick question - for the purposes of an "Honours" section in a player's article, is gaining promotion by finishing third or even fourth in the league an "honour"........? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:10, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't believe so. IMO "honours" are when you win a division, cup etc. The rest could probably be described as "achievements". Number 57 18:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

You get a cup for winning the EFL Championship playoffs, but not for qualifying by finishing 2nd in the league, yet the latter is more of an achievement than the former......Jopal22 (talk) 18:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

It depends how you define "honour". Players receive a medal for finishing third in EFL League Two. LTFC 95 (talk) 18:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Not for me aswell, like Number57 said. Kante4 (talk) 18:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes it is an honour. This is discussed every few months. As long as the honour is referenced then that trumps "imo promotions aren't an honour so I'm removing it".--EchetusXe 19:25, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Agree with N57 and K4 - no. GiantSnowman 19:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

@EchetusXe: How is it an honour though? It's one thing to be able to source the fact that the club was given a trophy and the players given medals for winning the play-offs, but is it traditionally listed among the player's honours in a biography? – PeeJay 19:28, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

David Wagner profile at the LMA. Are there any comprehensive footballer biographies that don't have play-off success in their honour list? Can't picture it myself.--EchetusXe 19:41, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

And do those include "winning promotion" as league runners-up as an honour? – PeeJay 19:54, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Also, at least that link makes special note of the fact that winning promotion is not an honour in the same way as winning an actual trophy is. – PeeJay 19:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:20, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

1st place is an honour, everything else is runner up which we generally don't include. By all means it can be mentioned within the biography, and should be, but it's probably not a significant footnote in a game that has lots of promotions each season. Koncorde (talk) 21:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Neil Warnock has more promotions than anyone else in the game (as far as I know) and his honours section is hardly cluttered. Compare to Cristiano Ronaldo's honours section, a man who has never been promoted but has won countless other honours. Hmm, has anyone else compared Neil Warnock and Cristiano Ronaldo before?--EchetusXe 21:34, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

What if you get a silver medal at the olympic football event?Jopal22 (talk) 21:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:KARLSRUHER at Leroy Sané

Could anyone have a look at the recent edits at Leroy Sané? There is an IP that insists on Schalke instead of Schalke 04 in violation of WP:KARLSRUHER. I don't want to edit war. --Jaellee (talk) 21:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

That page is an essay and is not an official rule or guideline that has to be followed. Empty argument.

a) You're wrong, see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 114#WP:KARLSRUHER and Ron-Robert Zieler

b) Please sign your edits. --Jaellee (talk) 21:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

The page itself says it is an essay and not a policy or guideline so I'm not wrong. 109.152.211.128 (talk) 21:57, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Nevertheless the consensus here agreed to follow this essay and you are deliberately going against it. --Jaellee (talk) 22:00, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Frankly I don't care, its not a rule or guideline so I refuse to follow it. 109.152.211.128 (talk) 22:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

But that's what you have to do. Call it a rule, guideline or consensus, that's what we do and it is correct. So, stop the edit warring. Your statement to now follow it is not good... Kante4 (talk) 22:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't have to follow an essay, its not an official rule or guideline. 109.152.211.128 (talk) 22:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

But there is consensus to use it. Kante4 (talk) 22:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Don't care I'm not going to follow anything that isnt an official rule or guideline. 109.152.211.128 (talk) 22:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Season already finished?

Do we already list the the winners of a league even if there are still two matchdays to go? In the 3. Liga there is an editor that insists inserting the winners of the 2018–19 season. Osnabrück has already secured the first place, but as I said, the season is not over yet. --Jaellee (talk) 21:58, 6 May 2019 (UTC)