User talk:184.71.97.170

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Happy editing! HiLo48 (talk) 06:37, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Mars (mythology)

Hello; I removed your changes to the introduction at the Mars article because it changed the meaning of a sentence whose sense was already supported by a scholarly citation. I'm not at all sure what you meant to say, or on what basis, so it you have a case to make for your changes, it might be best to do so at Talk:Mars (mythology). Thanks Haploidavey (talk) 06:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

July 2022

Hello, I'm Hey man im josh. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Second Vatican Council seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Hey man im josh (talk) 11:35, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

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Please do not add or change content, as you did at Neo-creationism, without citing a reliable source. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you. Tommi1986 ^{let's talk!} 19:07, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Treasury of merits (July 31)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by DoubleGrazing was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Treasury of merits and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:25, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello, 184.71.97.170! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:25, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

Re Supererogation

Hi 184.71.97.170, and again, welcome to the Wikipedia. It's fine to dive right in, but it takes awhile to become used to all the in and outs. But don't worry! We don't mind helping you learn the ropes as you progress.

So, one of our core principles is Wikipedia:Neutral point of view (NPOV), which in a nutshell says "Articles must not take sides, but should explain the sides, fairly and without editorial bias. This applies to both what you say and how you say it."

So, in your edit here you, for instance, added the text I've bolded:

Paul the Apostle says that while in his opinion...

So, we already have "Paul the Apostle says...", so we can assume it is his opinion. If it something he didn't believe, that would be unusual. It could be that he's setting up an argument, eg "Paul the Apostle says that while in the opinion of some, with whom he disagrees...", but that's not what he's doing, and it was we'd have to make that more clear.

So, whatever your intent, I think some readers could come away with "well the Wikipedia emphasizes that it's only his personal opinion, so maybe it's something that is clearly false or that few people agree with, then or now, or something. Else why would they emphasize it?"

I have my own personal opinion about Paul and the influence he's had on the world. However, I leave that behind when I write for the Wikipedia. I suspect you do not hold Paul in high esteem, and fine, but that doesn't matter here. We let the reader make up her own mind whether Paul was a wise prophet or an ignorant asshole or whatever in between.

And so on for some (not necessarily all) of the rest your edit. Also you didn't leave an edit summary, which isn't required but would have helped.

So, another core rule is Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle (BRD). An editor (you) boldly made an edit, and that's fine and is encouraged. However, any editor can decide "I don't know as this edit is an improvement, so let's return to the previous version while (if the editor wants) we'll discuss this and maybe get some more eyes on it and see how to best proceed", which is what I did The burden is then on the editor wanting to make the change (you), so then it would be your responsibility to open a thread on the talk page, and initiate an conversation where you provide arguments and references to support your edit, and others may join in, and if your arguments and references are superior you should win the day (or there might be a compromise hammered out).

Anyway, so here you made an edit, not understanding that the burden was on you to open a talk page thread (and perfectly understandable, now you know, there's no way to know all this stuff when you are new), and also only waiting a couple hours which, a few days would be a better wait period, we get busy and there's no hurry, we want to get this right. And, I don't "like so much" the passage, I'm only vaguely aware of it, and I'm not at all familiar with this article, I'm just acting according to our accepted standards. And it comes off a little peevish, which you want to be careful with that.

There is a source given (directly in the text instead of as a footnote, but still OK), which is 1 Corinthians 7, where Paul says "I wish that all men were as I am [that is, celibate -- ed]. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried... I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion." We have this as "everyone is free to marry, it is better to refrain from marriage and remain celibate to better serve God". The point being that Paul is saying that to marry is fine, and meets God's requirements. But "It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves..." indicates that being celibate (as Paul is) is for people who can control themselves, which is why Paul would "wish that all men were as I am" -- that is, unmarried and thus celibate. Which is pretty clearly better than having to get married. So, it seems to be a fair example of Supererogation, I guess.

I had to look all this up, but I guess it's a common interpretation -- that is, the mainstream interpretation. One could try to interpret 1 Corinthians 7 as indicated that it is more Godly, or more pleasing to God, to marry than to remain celibate, or any no worse, but that would require some gymnastics and, more importantly, is not the mainstream interpretation. We tend to lay out out the mainstream interpretation of things, mainly. We're rather boring and pallid that way, but it's for the best, and anyway is how we roll.

However, if you can ref a respected neutral scholar(s) to indicate that 1 Corinthians 7 is not an example of Supererogation, that that'd be different, and we'd want to look at those.

So, these are some of the arguments I would probably bring out on the talk page. Other page watchers would, hopefully, have things to say also, and hopefully a consensus would emerge about what to do. So, by all means, if you're up to it you should open a talk page thread, I think it'd be good practice. And it's entirely possible that be refs and argument you can convince me, or the others. Carry on, and again, welcome, and again, nobody expects you to know all this yet! Herostratus (talk)

You can write a "Holy Bible" or "New Testament" section to explain and justify your understanding of supererogation but I'm not cool placing this weird stuff into the Catholic faith section. Of course Saint Paul is a wise prophet in the Catholic faith. But is he infallible? No.... He's never been the Pope in that faith and the original one was married (St. Peter). So fren, sorry, none of it is my opinion, I was just presenting Catholic teaching on the subject matter since it contradicts St. Paul's opinions and that segment of the article section is supposed to be about Catholicism, not St. Paul's personal opinions. If you had some references to include there I'm not sure I'm seeing any yet cited? The Catholic faith teaches marriage is both a sacrament and a necessity (at-least for most people) which suggests strongly to the contrary of whatever is being said about "celibacy is better", which itself is probably a mistranslation itself since you wrote he said quoted verbatim "celibacy is GOOD"..... I may have my own personal opinions about celibacy derived from a mental health perspective, where much of science suggests it isn't a good thing often and usually isn't better, but this is about Holy Scripture, so I'm not including that right now, and since this is not about the priesthood in particular it doesn't make much sense to include it, neither what you have asked for me to include, and it would also be disrespectful to Eastern Catholicism to prioritize a Eurocentristic Western-only viewpoint much rather instead even if we talked about the priesthood. Eastern Orthodoxy in general teaches something much different quite often as well about all these things you've been speaking on to me so it isn't going to feel fair, neutral, objective, etc. about what the Catholic viewpoint is at all, since it isn't accommodating to what the Church believes currently. It's important to avoid misrepresentation.

Thanks for the heads up bud. 184.71.97.170 (talk) 07:11, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Uncommented edits to Theistic evolution

Please explain and discuss your proposed edits on the Theistic evolution Talk page before arbitrarily making them. -- Jmc (talk) 09:54, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I added the WP:NPOV dispute tag for that, also I suggest you don't go accusing edits of being arbitrary before explaining how that could possibly be a likely scenario btw. 184.71.97.170 (talk) 10:55, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Re: Progressive creationism

How can you say you are engaged in BRD if you haven't even bothered to start a discussion on Talk:Progressive creationism? Regardless, the other user accidentally reverted my edit when they meant to revert yours. Please stop with the aggressive and tenacious editing. You're welcome to be a member of Wikipedia, but you have to understand that you do not own articles. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

I think the problem is that even now after asking me to do WP:BRD with you that you aren't even engaging at all on the talk page. It sounds hypocritical to ask me to do something with you I said I'm doing that you seem unwilling or unable to do with me. There was literally a discussion there like 2 hours started by another user about the edits I made you kept repeatedly reverting. The other user is currently proposing there right now to edit things in the direction I proposed favourably. That user JMC was agreeing with a lot of my edits that YOU reverted. And he reverted YOU. Quit making false accusations and trying to obfuscate the truth. That my editing is aggressive is WP:ASPERSIONS (it's unfounded accusations so far you have failed to prove). You came here posting aggressive hate mail on my page and talking about other people from articles that have nothing to do with you that have been having debates with me per WP:BRD yet you complain I didn't do this with you? How about you be the real man and engage in WP:BRD then if it bugs you so much that I like to do this but you're mad I don't with you supposedly? Tenacity is generally considered a good moral trait in modern Western civilization, it has never been seen as bad by any society, my talk page is not the place to cry about me using WP:BRD in ways you don't like, so I'll respectfully and politely ask you to stop leaving unnecessary hateful comments on this page per WP:NPOV. If you keep up your deliberately disruptive editing that is highly nonconstructive if not literal vandalism yet at this point then you may end up on WP:ANI, you've been pushing your POV too hard quite long enough on wikipedia for someone that doesn't seem to think he has WP:OWN. 184.71.97.170 (talk) 23:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia and copyright

Hello 184.71.97.170! Your additions to Fascism and ideology have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably-free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from sources to avoid copyright and plagiarism issues.

• You can only copy/translate a small amount of a source, and you must mark what you take as a direct quotation with double quotation marks (") and cite the source using an inline citation. You can read about this at Wikipedia:Non-free content in the sections on "text". See also Help:Referencing for beginners, for how to cite sources here.
• Aside from limited quotation, you must put all information in your own words and structure, in proper paraphrase. Following the source's words too closely can create copyright problems, so it is not permitted here; see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Even when using your own words, you are still, however, asked to cite your sources to verify the information and to demonstrate that the content is not original research.
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• Also note that Wikipedia articles may not be copied or translated without attribution. If you want to copy or translate from another Wikipedia project or article, you must follow the copyright attribution steps described at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. See also Help:Translation#License requirements.

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, you are welcome to leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 21:17, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

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Word of Caution

You are welcome to delete any comments made on your talk page, however, this also is an indication that you have read them. Consequentially, you should obey Chiswick Chap's warnings, which are not "casting aspersions" or "vandalism" as you refer to it, but are the appropriate warnings given your disruptive behavior, which is leading to multiple pages being page protected. You should also obey Diannaa's warnings regarding copyright. A friendly warning: if you do not stop treating Wikipedia like a battleground, your conduct may end up on WP:ANI and you may be blocked. Thank you! Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 22:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

You may end up on WP:ANI and be blocked if you continue this hateful and aggressive accusatory conduct on my talk page while mass reverting several other users constructive edits. What he was doing is WP:ASPERSIONS and violated WP:NPOV because I had already engaged in WP:BRD with him and he knew that but deliberately ignored it while making false accusations in the post on my talk page. By the time I had seen it he had actually refused to engage in WP:BRD AFAIK btw. There is no warnings to obey about Chiswick Chap's demeanor towards me on Lamarckism because there isn't any problem there at all. It's inappropriate because his warnings are irrelevant, they aren't founded in reality that what I was doing is disruptive editing. It's an opinion of a very flawed qualitative character, objectively. Context is needed here, he doesn't supply it, and he doesn't want to supply it, because it would look bad for the circumstances he's trying to create. And you seem to know very little about these situations that don't involve you that you're trying to shove your nose into. Leave me alone. 184.71.97.170 (talk) 23:58, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Just wanted to be polite and give you a heads-up that your behavior is unacceptable. What you do with that is up to you. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 00:04, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Chiswick Chap was warned by other users on the talk page for making inflammatory comments in his edit opposing me in playing a revert game with me that I wasn't going for. That's why he was accused of vandalism. I'm going to politely ask you to leave me alone again right now. This is absolutely unnecessary and extraneous details emphasised by someone who seems to have an editorial agenda not rooted in WP:NPOV being pushed against me. Your behaviour is unacceptable per WP:POV pushing on both your article editing and on this talk page digging up other user conflicts from nothing to do with you but apparently a personal matter related to how someone feels towards me on here, because what you've been doing quite a bit long before me even right now is quite evidently your WP:BATTLE by you yourself coming here to attack me uninvited even while I have asked you to stop. This comment by you seems to me to be disguised as a concern about WP:ANI when we both know what's going on here and many other people should be easily able to see that. 184.71.97.170 (talk) 00:15, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

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