Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ater Wynne

Ater Wynne

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Questionable notability - may violate WP:CORPDEPTH. This seems like an every snowflake is unique situation. They don't seem to be involved in anything actually notable, just trade news and commercial real estate transactions. The firm that abosorbed this firm had their wikipedia article previously deleted for lack of notability. (Arguably WP:A7, but I thought it deserved more debate.) QuintinK (talk) 23:33, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Oregon, Washington, Law, and Organizations. sig QuintinK (talk) 23:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete reads like a business history, nothing substantial found for sourcing.Oaktree b (talk) 00:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Daily Journal of Commerce Oregon and Portland Business Journal seem like exactly the sorts of spots we'd expect to see NCORP coverage. The Oregonian is the city's paper of record. Coverage already extant meets NCORP and GNG, which suggests the parent organization's deletion may need to be reexamined. Jclemens (talk) 00:58, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the article includes citations from legitimate news sources. My thinking is that it violates Wikipedia:A7, in that the article never claims there is anything per se notable about the law firm or its history. It was affiliated with some notable individuals, but there's nothing I see that's obviously notable about the law firm itself. QuintinK (talk) 01:39, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Notability is not that, as in it is not if the topic is famous, important, or popular, which appears to be your criteria. Instead, notability is when a topic "has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". I think it has, but that is a different debate than if they were involved in a famous case or "anything actually notable". Aboutmovies (talk) 09:16, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article is a far cry for A7. Merely being a "law firm" with multiple partners and important clients is enough to dodge that speedy deletion criterion. Jclemens (talk) 17:07, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No assertion of notability, so fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG. UtherSRG (talk) 01:10, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - but I wrote the article. In sum, I try not to write non-notable entries. I research them first to ensure there is solid notability, unless they have something that makes them automatically notable like they are a state legislator. In this case, that included non open web-based articles, which totaled 6 out of the 21 sources. For those who are voting, did you look at any of those articles to be able to actually see if WP:CORPDEPTH was met on those articles? Did the nominator doing any independent checking of sources and look for more as we often require for notability purposes before nominating? Just like notability is not inherited, the fact that the firm that absorbed them was deleted has no bearing. Also, "They don't seem to be involved in anything actually notable" is not criteria and would be an inherited trait that we should not be using as criteria for inclusion as well. The fact is, as a project we have done a poor job of covering law firms. When I see a large firm that has been around awhile make the news and we have no article, I used to take the time to write one. As to notable cases, there are 297 cases in which their name appears in Lexis (my firm only has 69 such results), and another 132 results in Lexis' legal news results (I have added more to the article based on those). There is adequate coverage for notability when you do the research. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:10, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 01:30, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, we really should not be too jumpy just to delete things. This meets WP:GNG from what I can see. TY. — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 06:42, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This was a commercial organization therefore WP:NORG criteria applies. For the most part, the sources are business listings, mentions or based on announcements or information provided by an executive or the company. Nothing significant and in-depth containing "Independent Content" defined as original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. To respond to specific points raised by Keep !voters above - the coverage in the Daily Journal of Commerce Oregon and Portland Business Journal are base don announcements and have no "Independent Content" failing WP:ORGIND. The number of cases in which the law firm was "involved" does not form part of our criteria for establishing notability and those sources do not contain any "Independent Content" of significant in-depth information about the *company*. I'm happy to review my !vote if somebody points to a source (paragraph/page) which contains content that meet NORG criteria. HighKing⁺⁺ 13:21, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - The article cites good legitimate news sources HeliosSunGod (talk) 16:38, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]