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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Astoriaaldrich (talk | contribs) at 23:54, 2 January 2023. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Managing a conflict of interest

Information icon Hello, Astoriaaldrich. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about on the page Talk:Astor family, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a conflict of interest may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. We ask that you:

In addition, you are required by the Wikimedia Foundation's terms of use to disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution which forms all or part of work for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation. See Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure.

Also, editing for the purpose of advertising, publicising, or promoting anyone or anything is not permitted. Thank you. Lemonaka (talk) 14:42, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 2022

Information icon Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

Please ensure you are familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 17:51, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The information you are providing on the article is false. That’s why I keep correcting it. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 01:51, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, the text was quite accurate before you tried to impose changes. William Backhouse Astor Sr.'s wife Margaret Rebecca Armstrong was a Livingston (through her mother), one of their granddaughters—Margaret Astor Ward—married John Winthrop Chanler (a descendant of the Bayard and Stuvyesant families), and another granddaughter—Helen Schermerhorn Astor—married James Roosevelt Roosevelt. This shows the family connection listings are valid no matter how much you try to insist otherwise. While Ward and Chanler's daughter Margaret Livingston Chanler did marry Richard Aldrich, the fact that the Aldrich family doesn't have a page means his family isn't something to add. The Websters similarly cannot be added without a page no matter who from the family wed into this one. I'm not sure where you came up with the other names, but unless you can demonstrate how they married an Astor, they just feel like arbitrary additions at best. If you can show evidence for those, then a better idea would be to add them along with the previously listed names, not replacing those. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:04, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It’s not accurate, sorry. Not sure where you’re getting your information. As well, where do you think they came from before coming to Europe and then America. Original Astors are extremely ethnic. Something is wrong here. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 04:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll just fix it again when available. Thanks Astoriaaldrich (talk) 04:23, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just because there isn’t a link to the page doesn’t mean they “don’t belong “. That sounds incredibly classist Astoriaaldrich (talk) 04:24, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To give some samples, the Livingston connection can be shown here and in M.L. Chanler's memior Family Vista. This talks about how she and her brother Robert are descended from Peter Stuyvesant. There's also The Saint Nicholas Society of the City of New York (1905) showing a family connection to Stuyvesant and his wife Judith Bayard. Helen's proof of marrying a Roosevelt was written in The New York Times. I apologize for coming off as classist for including/excluding names based on whether they have Wiki pages, but you're free to create articles on the families (assuming good references can be found), and calling someone "extremely ethnic" or even simply "ethnic" is an unhelpfully vague description as there are many different ethnicities that exist. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn’t matter if they married them. It does not make them connected. I don’t think you understand how that works. Being a Webster, Rothschild, Rockefeller, and Astor myself this is Getting to be incredibly trying. Astors are by origin, African at the root. This was something that was hidden along with their Jewish faith because of the Nazis. Lots of complicated and deep history someone from the outside finding half facts of the internet would not know or understand hence MY changes of fixing the article with the truth but obviously you’re not interested in that. Hopefully people don’t look to Wikipedia for my families biography and go to another place because it is a complete set of blatant lies. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 14:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage actually does form a connection per Template:Infobox family. To make changes to articles, they need to have accompanying sources for them per WP:No original research and WP:Verifiability, which helps show the claims didn't just come out of nowhere. That's why I listed some in my previous comment. To accuse the whole site of completely lying about the family feels over-the-top. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 14:59, 1 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not everything is public record. Sometimes things are “ if you know, you know”. It would be more accurate to make a separate part that says “this family had someone marry in” but they are NOT connected. It is not hard to find rations between these families with the Websters, Rothschilds, and Romanov families. As well, I married an Aldrich and both the Astors and Aldrich’s have a long history with one another, most that is not published for public display, as many family business is not. Again, as someone who is actually in the family and knows what they are talking about and not just looking at public records which could be forged, fakes, etc for reasons out of your understanding. It’s obviously not the whole site but you seem to be the only one with an issue about me editing my families personal information. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 11:39, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, Ymblanter also had objections to your changes when reverting them, plus Lemonaka left an above notice on conflicts of interest. If you were also any of the IP addresses who tried to make identical changes, then other Wikipedians also undid those edits. For better or for worse, the criteria used for "connected families" on the infobox template linked above say it's used for marriage affiliations, and has been since long before either of us joined Wikipedia. You don't have to like this, but that's what it gets used for, and I cannot foresee that changing without consensus from a thread on the template's talk page (such a broad discussion of the field is better for there instead of an individual family's talk page). While I wouldn't object to citing a work created by an Astor family member within the article, we do need to attach references when altering text in accordance with both of the policies I previously brought up. It could be a website, a printed book, a magazine, a newspaper, a TV show, a film, a census listing, or some other type of reference. Readers will otherwise be left uncertain of how the changes came about. Why such histories with the other families you mention haven't been more publicized is beyond me. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because some things are left to be private due to government reasons etc. until they can be released by the right persons at the right time. This is more common than you think. Especially if your family was murdered and it was covered up with the help of these “connected” families. But you have fun defending fraudulent information about my family. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 22:55, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The blatant mockery with "have fun defending fraudulent information" is completely uncalled for. Please don't belittle others per WP:Civility and WP:No personal attacks even when you disagree with them. I don't know why you still refuse to accept the marriage criteria used for family infoboxes, but just because you object to having certain families listed doesn't mean it's false. Once accompanying sources are provided to support the other connections you're adamant on adding, we could keep them along with the other listings, which would be more productive than getting rid of such content. Your dismissive attitude to established practices aren't helpful either and give off an impression that you want things out due to a personal taste. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 23:24, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No it’s the truth. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 23:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Funny how all the other people who married in that have family pages aren’t listed in the connected families. Hmm, maybe because they are not connected! Astoriaaldrich (talk) 23:54, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Astors

The Astor family page is full of lies and misinformation. So disappointing. Please do not look here for information regarding the Astors. It even left out the part that we live in Canada and we are not Italian, but have roots in Spain and Africa which seems to be missing ?? The connected families listed are not in fact connected to us. So sad. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 12:00, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Astors are basically Tajik. Tajik Jews to be precise. Tajikistan is where they really got established. This is where our culture and business attitude comes from. Our “heart” and homeland. Astoriaaldrich (talk) 12:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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