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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by LeeHunter (talk | contribs) at 00:02, 27 March 2007 (→[[Robin Murphy]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

< March 25 Deletion review archives: 2007 March March 27 >

26 March 2007

Toyota Axina

Toyota Axina (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

This article was deleted as a hoax or nonsense piece. It isn't. I work in the motor industry and can confirm this car does exist. It's not in production yet. It's notable, ALL RIGHT!! Okay, can we discuss this now, pleeeease!!! Flakysnow-494 23:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fred the Monkey

Fred the Monkey (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

So... This is a bit confusing, but please bear with me. Determining if Flash cartoons and artists are notable is quite difficult: web rankings can often be misleading, and the popularity of certain things is hard to ascertain. Fred the Monkey, I think, fits into the category of "notable, but just barely". The cartoons are produced by the animation of a single artist, and it takes a lot of time to make a single episode. Because of this, updates are very, very rare. The site has been up for roughly 4 years, and there's only been 20+ cartoons. In fact, I'm a huge fan of Fred, but the last time I checked for a new cartoon was about three months ago. And since web rankings are obviously based on hits, we can guess that FTM will be lower than, say, Newgrounds. This isn't because less people know about it; rather, it is because FTM simply has less hits due to it being a single artist's work, as opposed to several. That does not, however, make it any less notable. Google search results would back this up. Several cartoons have been featured on Newgrounds, the Cubetoons article still exists (albeit due to being featured on IGN), and the Fred the Monkey forums are some of the most active I've been on. Captain Wikify Argh! 23:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Robin Murphy

Robin Murphy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)
The stub did indicate why the subject was notable. The article was deleted within 5 minutes of creation; no one gave me a chance to improve the article Abridged 21:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
More info: A message was left on my talk page that the article was tagged at 17:16. The article was deleted at 17:17. Also note that the deleting admin could not have given this much careful consideration since he deleted 5 other articles the same minute by his log of user contributions, and clearly did not take the time to confirm that the criteria for speedy deletion had been met before deleting. Abridged 22:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn - unless an article is pure vandalism, it shouldn't be deleted so quickly when active improvement is still going on. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 21:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn I don't have any problem with the rapid response, but "Dr. Murphy is best known for his publication of reference texts in the field of homeopathy. // Bibliography // Homeopathic Medical Repertory, 1993 (1st edition), 2005 (3rd edition), [1][2]" is a clear and unambiguous assertion of notability. ~ trialsanderrors 22:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn If that was the entire content, more will obviously be needed to fully establish notability, so I would have added a prod tag, not a speedy, to give it a chance. Dont bite the newbies. DGG 23:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, that was just the claim to notability. The article was a biostub: Robin Murphy (born, 1950, Grand Rapids, Michigan) is a Naturopath and homeopath. Dr. Murphy became interested in homeopathy as an undergraduate. He studied homeopathy at the National College of Naturopathic Medicine (NCNM) where he earned an ND in 1980, and directed the homeopathy program there from 1980-1984. He has also taught at Bastyr University. He directs the Hahnemann Academy of North America. Dr. Murphy is best known for his publication of reference texts in the field of homeopathy. Three books, two refs, one link to a bio. ~ trialsanderrors 23:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn Speedy not justified. --Lee Hunter 00:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alpamysh

Alpamysh (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

I believe the page was deleted too soon, despite having undergone major improvements and citing all its sources, including the main source on which it was based. The page should have remained for at least another day to allow for it further improvement, or at least be moved to my personal Talk page to improve it there. Currently, I have no backup of it, and simply can't re-write it as there were several sources and quotes that I found before and can't find them all again. It is better to restore the page, and I will re-write it even more. Note that the original request for deletion came only after the first, preliminary version of the page, whilst by the time the article got deleted, it was in its 2.0 version. To make the story short, if the page gets restored, I will quickly make it conform fully to all Wiki standards, it won't be very hard, since the article had a good collection of quotes and research in it, and will need only minor shortening and adjustment. --Wisconsin96 21:26, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • This was deleted as a copyvio, which seems to be partially true. Do you want me to email you a copy of the text? If you rewrite it, make sure you don't lift passages from other sources without attribution. ~ trialsanderrors 23:57, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Golden State Ambulance

Golden State Ambulance (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

Just wondering what happened to this article. I can't find it on the list of deleted articles and it's not even showing up under my account at all. I can't find any record of it at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Javastein (talk • contribs) 20:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Hadouken!

Hadouken! (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

This article has been deleted a number of times which really is rather stupid. Its also been protected from being recreated. Read the articles talk page to see how badly this deletion needs overturned. It was deleted orginally for unnotability but it cant be categorised under this, not anymore. They've been interviewed on XFM and performed live, as well as getting play on Radio 1, working with Bloc Party and Klaxons, currently on a headline tour, their debut single sold out on PRE-ORDERS they now have a new member and are widely considered the hottest new band in the whole of the UK by NME. Read the talk page, the people have spoken and they want this article. Now.--Shookvitals 18:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of fiction that builds the fourth wall

Barbara Bauer

Barbara Bauer (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

The original review was closed for what the closing admin believed to be a necessary precaution based on possible office issues. The office has since spoken, and said they won't have a statement on it, so this is just to re-open it. Please see the original review for comments and concerns. badlydrawnjeff talk 16:12, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Procedural note: Opinions in the aborted original discussion will be taken as still valid at closing time if the editor offering such opinions has not withdrawn or updated them. Please do not feel obligated to repeat them here. GRBerry 23:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Deleting admin's rationale: I deleted this under WP:BLP and *not* for reasons of legal threats of which I was unaware at the time. The article was a disgrace full of references to "complaints on internet message boards", "alleged" legal threats, imputed motives, vague references to "reports of behavior", and original research links to court reports that have never main mainstream media. We are not a tabloid - we don't do internet rumours and allegations - we don't do investigative journalism - other than the fact that some magazine gave her a bad review (so what?) there was nothing remotely encyclopaedic there. This is simply not what wikipedia is - and is clearly not how we treat Living Persons, not matter the legality or how much people disdain the subject. I stand by the deletion. Write a real article if you want.--Docg 21:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore Based on what was there before (multiple, non-trivial sources establishing notability). If there are POV/neutrality concerns that is now an editing matter. Also the current history link isn't working, an admin must fix that. We cannot see now what was there before. Please restore ASAP. - Denny 16:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore The article was well-sourced and meets WP:V and WP:BLP. The BLP policy doesn't mean we can never write something that might reflect negatively on a living person; it means such claims have to be properly attributed and cited, which they are in the cached article. Furthermore, it would set a very bad precedent for the Wikimedia Foundation to allow an article to be deleted as a result of spurious legal threats or frivolous lawsuits. That would only invite a flood of additional such claims. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 16:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore - even by the most stringent policy interpretations there is no basis for deletion. Phil Sandifer 17:11, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore - I agree with Crotalus horridus. This sets a bad precedent. St jb
  • keep deleted. The Barbara Bauer article was one of several articles created on Wikipedia in May 2006 by User:JulesH for the stated purpose of, "I just feel that the information about them provided by the SFWA should be disseminated more widely". The sole basis for these articles (the others have been deleted) was a list on a website that does not provide data to back-up their claims, thus making it impossible for Wikipedians to verify the website's claims. This one website source is not the basis for posting rumors about a living person on Wikipedia, even if the claims are true. I do not understand all the "inside" talk (by Wikipedia editors who know the parties involved in real-world disputes with Barbara Bauer) on the Talk:Barbara Bauer and related pages, but it is clear that there is a group of editors who have collaborated to keep negative information about Barbara Bauer on Wikipedia, using only blogs and other unreliable internet sources in their citations. These "owners" of the article have been repeatedly challenged by other Wikipedians who pointed out that use of unreliable sources is a violation of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. The original attempt to delete the Barbara Bauer article was held off under the condition that the article would be built using reliable sources (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbara Bauer), however the unreliable website sources were retained. The only reason this page exists is to repeat the claims of an unreliable website source that does not provide evidence for its claims, only a set of conclusions. There is no reason for Wikipedia to repeat these conclusions other than the desire of a few Wikipedia editors to use Wikipedia as a mechanism for amplifying the conclusions of the other website. This is not a basis for building a Wikipedia article about a living person, even if the claims are true. This has nothing to do with responding to "spurious legal threats". There are thousands of webpages that make unverifiable claims about living people. Wikipedia is not here as a mechanism for amplifying those claims. In my view, the link to "Writer Beware" at Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America should be enough coverage of this issue for Wikipedia. --JWSchmidt 18:33, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment as OFFICE stated on the mail list they are not taking a position, can an admin please restore the history of the last couple versions at least so people can judge/see what was there fairly? - Denny 18:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep deleted - looking at the Google cache, I honestly don't see how this person meets WP:BIO standards. The sources are either self-referential, have no actual information, or are blogs, which to me doesn't stand up very well. If someone can come forward with good, reliable sources, then perhaps it's worthy, but right now? I don't see it. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
(I note that I can't see any sources that may have been added after the Google cache was created, just for the record.) Tony Fox (arf!) 20:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse - Articles which turn into Interwebs smearfests about living people should be deprecated, demolished and buried. Wikipedia is not a sounding board for criticism or praise - it is a compendium of what has already been published in reliable sources. The article in question consisted almost entirely of what has been (negatively) said about the person on blogs and message boards. WP:BLP specifically prohibits the use of these sites as sources for biographies. "Material found in self-published books, zines, websites or blogs should never be used, unless written or published by the subject." Surely there is something which has been published in a reliable source which discusses the allegations for/against this person in a neutral manner, if this truly is not a tempest in a teapot, right? FCYTravis 21:04, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse my deletion - see rationale at the top.--Docg 21:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC) Your rational is already logged. ~ trialsanderrors 23:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Restore. (1) No OFFICE action -- if and when there is, it can be dealt with then; (2) Previous AfD closed as "keep"; (3) subject satisfies WP:BIO as a subject, due to controversy covered in multiple sources; and finally, (4) article does not violate WP:BLP for two reasons I analyze below:
  1. The main source of her notoriety is her filing of a lawsuit, the verifiability of which is incontrovertable by reference to public records sources.
  2. The collateral sources which form the basis of the public controversy in which she is embroiled meet WP:RS. The SFWA site is not a personal home page, blog, fan site, rumor site, etc; it is the official site of a respected and established professional organization, the equivalent in its field to (for example) the American Medical Association or the American Bar Association. The author of the SFWA piece, A. C. Crispin, is an officer of the organization, and a well-known author in her own right. As for Making Light, while it is a blog, it clearly fits the exception in WP:RS to the general prohibition on self-published sources, "When a well-known, professional researcher writing within his or her field of expertise, or a well-known professional journalist, has produced self-published material, these may be acceptable as sources, so long as his or her work has been previously published by credible, third-party publications." Teresa Nielsen Hayden unquestionably meets those qualifications.
This article is a good example of how we can show that Wikipedia is capable of neutral, professional coverage of controversial matters, even matters in which it is a party. Restore. --MCB 22:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Restore and keep article provided that better sourcing is added. Reliability of the original sourcing was not at all clear. ~This is an instance of where we do have to be careful of BLP. The withdrawal of the Office action was not a license to ignore BLP, but rather a statement that they relied upon us to evaluate with it properly in the usual way. DGG 23:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The

Internet troll squads

Internet troll squads (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

I believe that the article was neither an "attack" nor an original research. It summarized the investigations of Russian and Polish journalists and activists. The article's editor attributed all the paragraphs to the respective publications. I cannot find a Wikipedia policy mentioning the term "attack". The omnipresence of scabrous comments in the Russian online forums is evident. There are known cases of impersonation of Russian opposition figures and distortion of their statements.

I think instead of deleting the article, one should add more reliable sources to it such as court decisions. Perhaps, expanding the scope of the article to libel cases of vague origin would help. The article already included a reference to the work of Polyanskaya that mentions a court case of libel of Starovoitova.

On my part, I have translated from Russian a bio stub of Nikolai Girenko, a murdered Russian ethnograph who testified in court cases against nationalist groups. I am mentioning this article here because it shows the scale and nature of attacks against the civil dialogue. ilgiz 07:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Overturn obvious consensus to keep on AfD, and another outrageous deletion by User:A Man In Black.  Grue  08:45, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse, the AfD was a trollfest, Grue's amusingly hysterical assertion notwithstanding. But we could relist semiprotected if anyone thinks it's worth the effort. Guy (Help!) 10:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • Are you saying that most of those who voted "keep" are trolls? That's "hysterical assertion" if I saw one. What happened here is User:A Man In Black, who doesn't know jack about Russian or Polish politics, completely ignoring opinions of people who do. That's what I call "systemic bias", which we're supposed to counter, not encourage more.  Grue  14:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse, AFD is not a vote count. >Radiant< 11:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Relist for the reasons I've presented above in this undelete request. ilgiz 11:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn, AfD is also no place for ignoring votes and discriminating users' opinion. The discussion was NOWHERE NEAR a "delete" consensus.AlexPU 12:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn, clearly no consensus for a deletion. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I have posted my opinion here User_talk:A_Man_In_Black#Deletion_of_Internet_squads_article, and I am working toward improving the article under a different name. More sources are added, primarily about similar "Internet teams" in China. It would be great if Ilgiz (who perhaps knows this subject better than me) and other editors could help to improve the article.Biophys 15:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment as stated already, this is from the AFD page, section titled, How to discuss an AfD/Wikietiquette, "The debate is not a vote; please make recommendations on the course of action to be taken, sustained by arguments." not to mention the Admin's comments on the page, "I've disregarded the nose count on this one, due to the off-wiki vote stumping." Betaeleven 15:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn and Relist - I believe there was some consensus to delete in the original debate - unless I am missing/miscounted something there were more !votes to delete. That said, there was more than a little confusion going on there and it wouldn't hurt to try and build a more solid consensus one way or another. Arkyan &#149; (talk) 16:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was made aware of Ukrained (talk · contribs) stumping for votes in e-mail on ANI, as well as this article being used as a brush with which to smear Wikipedia users. The delete comments highlighted the low quality of the sources and the fact that the claims made were not supported by the sources, and these arguments were poorly refuted by keep comments, if refuted at all. Thanks for the laugh, though, Grue. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 19:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "The delete comments highlighted the low quality of the sources". OK, let's see if it's really the case, or you're making it up on the spot:
      • "Looks like a hoax to me, but I can't read Russian either" (great argument)
      • "Looks like a conspiracy theory to me." (aka WP:IDONTLIKEIT
      • "It's surely a conspiracy theory."
      • "OR, WP:POINT, POV almost by definition." (aka TLA alphabet soup)
    • There were actually 7 sources, most of them inline. The delete arguments like "WP:NOR" are self-defeating. You made your decision based on some WP:ANI rumor, and closed the debate without even reading it. Just admit it, because we all know it's true.  Grue  21:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • relist. We obviously did not have a proper discussion of this in the first place. DGG 23:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler, Smirking Chimp

The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)
Smirking Chimp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|AfD)

The recent MFD discussion on GNAA's "war on blogs" led me to check whether several prominent weblogs I had heard of had been deleted as a result of such activity. I found at least two blogs that were deleted when, pretty clearly, they shouldn't have been. Note that these undeletions are not being proposed for personal political reasons; one of the blogs (Rottweiler) is far-right while the other (Chimp) is far-left.

The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler's deletion discussion appears to have a solid consensus... but it turns out a lot of those voters were actually GNAA members, some of whom (including GNAA founder Timecop) are now banned from Wikipedia. The discussion on AFD should be re-run and kept free of single-purpose or bad faith accounts. The existing discussion can't reasonably be said to reflect an accurate consensus of Wikipedia users.

Smirking Chimp's deletion discussion had two keep votes and two delete votes. That is far from a consensus to delete. It's one of the few redlinked blogs on the lists found on our Political blog article. There is a metric ton of Google hits.

At the very least, both these articles should have a real, full discussion on AFD before they're deleted. Crotalus horridus (TALK • CONTRIBS) 06:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Endorse, smirking chimp is a favourite of mine, or was at one time anyway, but the article as deleted had only one source: smirking chimp. No prejudice against a rewrite which satisfies notability criteria by reference to reliable secondary sources. Guy (Help!) 10:23, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse both deletions, reasons as given above. Additionally the AfD on the first mentioned article is rather old - perhaps it would be more constructive to re-create the article, properly sourced and written, starting from scratch rather than digging up old graves? Arkyan &#149; (talk) 16:53, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn both and relist. I am glad someone checked the list. It became clear that the deletions sponsored by this self-admitted cabal need review with more careful attention. DGG 23:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Christina McHale

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