Talk:Deutschland-class battleship

inter war years

Sorry, I think the interwar years of the ships are in parts wrong and not very clear describing the use of the different ships: for example:

Schleswig-Holstein went early in 1926 again in service and served until 1935 as the flagship of the REICHSMARINE and the first flagship of KRIEGSMARINE after the renaming, 1936 she was rebuilt to a trainingship, but active during the Rhineland-crisis, caption of a picture I changed already
Schlesien was -so far I know- never fleet flagship , she was one Year before Schleswig-Holstein converted to a trainingship
Hannover "served as a guard ship in the Danish straits until the 1930s" = never heard of, in peace time ??
I have reworked the German version of Schleswig-Holstein--erb. 23:43, 4 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Erb34 (talk • contribs)

Those are all sourced to reliable sources; if you want them changed you need to provide more sources contradicting them. I'll give you the first point, as it is clearly the Kriegsmarine ensign flying on the ship; I'll post a notice on the Bundesarchiv error reporting page. Parsecboy (talk) 02:48, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Armament

There is this sentence in the text:

"Removing the turrets also freed up deck space that could be used to add another pair of 8.8 cm (3.5 in) guns and placing the forward set of four in embrasures."

Are these 8,8 cm canons placed in embrasures not on both ends of the superstructure? I mean not the "forward set" was replaced. See Picture --Andreas (talk) 18:21, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

The line in question doesn't have anything to do with the stern guns - there were no changes made to them as a result of the shift from turrets to casemates for the 17cm guns. Dodson says: "The removal of the turrets also gave scope for adding an extra two 8.8cm guns and rearranging them, the forward four main-deck weapons also now being mounted in projecting 'swallows' nest' embrasures." That's also a model someone made, and I have no reason to believe it's entirely accurate. Parsecboy (talk) 18:31, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

I do not mean the stern guns. Not the four in the bow. But I do mean the alteration in positioning of the four 8,8 cm canons on the four edges of the superstructure. All others are equiped with shields. In case of Braunschweig, these 8,8 cm guns are all equiped with shields. I think the sentence is not correctly formed. Or I do not see the guns in question. --Andreas (talk) 23:23, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

PS

@Parsecboy: [1] I don't need to translate, I have Gröner in German. The legend is written on page 18 i — indizierte PS / indicated horse-power.--Inctructor (talk) 10:39, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

This was discussed somewhere many years ago - I have no recollection of where, but I may be able to find it. Nevertheless, iPS is not the same as ihp; the unit is simply the theoretical maximum output of an engine, and it would not make sense to switch to English units. The translation error was that iPS is the same as ihp. Parsecboy (talk) 11:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

In Gröner's book, this is the same thing and he specifically stipulates this so that there would be no discrepancies. He knows what he is writing. --Inctructor (talk) 11:21, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I found the discussion, here (and see specifically this comment). Parsecboy (talk) 12:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

PS and iPS are different sizes. PS=НР, iPS=iHP.--Inctructor (talk) 12:59, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

No, metric horsepower and imperial horsepower are not interchangeable units, as ADA pointed out, they're off by about 10 watts, which adds up when one gets into the tens of thousands of hp. The difference between hp and ihp (and by extension, PS and iPS) is the method of calculation - same as with shp, nhp, bhp, etc. Parsecboy (talk) 13:05, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

In all countries prior to 1918, except France, indicated horsepower (not metric) was used when specifying the power of steam engines. In the Russian Empire, this was generally an inch system. Power had to be recalculated only for French ships. --Inctructor (talk) 13:25, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

As an example: When translating the specification for armored cruisers of the Bogatyr class, everything was recalculated except for the power of the vehicles. --Inctructor (talk) 13:26, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Do you see on the screenshot of page 19 you sent, Groner defines PS as "Pferdstaerken (1 PS - 75kgm/s)", which is exactly what ADA said: "75 kgm/s (i.e. 735.49875 W) but irritatingly translated as HP (745.699881448 W)". If you will consult the table here, you will see that 75 kgm/s is exactly 1 PS, whereas 1 hp is 76.04 kgm/s. The figures in his book are given in metric horsepower. Parsecboy (talk) 13:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

PS at the top only says that we are dealing with horsepower, not kilowatts. The format of the table is as follows - the measured value, below it is the unit of measurement. Since the units of measurement are different for capacity, they are given inside the table. --Inctructor (talk) 13:52, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

If horsepower were always 75 kgm / s, then what is written on page 11 is not necessary at all. And it says there are different horsepower. --Inctructor (talk) 13:59, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Do you not know that there are different methods of calculating horsepower? The exact methodology of measuring ihp would not work with a steam turbine, nor would it work on a diesel engine. That's why there are different horsepowers, not because the underlying unit is the same. And as Groner defines it, all of those horsepowers are calculated using metric horsepower, i.e., 75 kgm/s. Parsecboy (talk) 14:02, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

He writes directly that iPS is the unit for Lloyd's Register. Are there metric-capacious ones too? --Inctructor (talk) 14:17, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I only see a reference to Lloyds in the line for nominal horsepower, which is an entirely different animal. Again, we don't need to parse words, Groener specifically tells us that for his book, 1 PS = 75 kgm/s. If he meant to use imperial hp, he'd have said 1 PS = 76.04 kgm/s. It doesn't get any clearer than that. Parsecboy (talk) 14:50, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Secondary armament

@Parsecboy: Conways has it with twenty 8.8 cm guns and so does Herwig, why was my edit reverted? Merrybrit (talk) 11:04, 6 November 2021 (UTC)