Talk:Antisemitism in the Arab world

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 20 November 2018

the following source no longer leads to any information: https://www.adl.org/main_Arab_World/default.htm Anti-Semitism in the Arab World – a collection of materials updated regularly Bcsejtey (talk) 16:00, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

 Done RudolfRed (talk) 00:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Why the insistence on using increasingly oxymoronic/archaic term "anti-semitism"?

Why not its functional & more accurate synonym, anti-Jewish? The insistence on using "anti-semitism" to describe conflict between two Semitic groups comes across as a deliberate attempt to provoke or flummox the reader. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:C801:9FA0:B9BA:D85E:9C25:1575 (talk) 02:09, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Fake list of pogroms

I am removing:

Nevertheless, pogroms spread through the Middle East and North Africa: Aleppo (1850, 1875), Damascus (1840, 1848, 1890), Beirut (1862, 1874), Dayr al-Qamar (1847), Jaffa (1876), Jerusalem (1847, 1870 and 1895), Cairo (1844, 1890, 1901–02), Mansura (1877), Alexandria (1870, 1882, 1901–07), Port Said (1903, 1908), and Damanhur (1871, 1873, 1877, 1891). —— Yossef Bodansky. Islamic Anti-Semitism as a Political Instrument Co-Produced by The Ariel Center for Policy Research and The Freeman Center for Strategic Studies, 1999. ISBN 978-0-9671391-0-4, see also The Encyclopedia of World History By Peter N. Stearns, William Leonard Langer p. 527. 2001.

Reasons:

1. Yossef Bodansky is not a historian but a neocon with a penchant for conspiracy theories.[1] He is best known for his ultra-fringe claim that Osama bin-Laden had nuclear weapons (see his article).
2. The individual items Jerusalem (1870, 1895) and Jaffa (1876) come not from Bodansky but from the weak tertiary encyclopedia that is not an acceptable source. In any case, it does not confirm pogroms in those years and I challenge anyone to prove that they happened. I searched multiple detailed sources including contemporary Jewish newspapers. There is also a direct statement in the Shaw Commission report that no such events happened (p150).
3. Leaving those three items aside, the list was added in 2007 and soon pruned to remove non-Arab locations. Looking at the original list, we see a perfect match with Bernard Lewis, The Jews of Islam, p158. This is evidently Bodansky's source, and Lewis is reliable. However, Lewis does not identify them as pogroms but as blood libels. Blood libels may or may not be accompanied by pogroms, so let's look at a few examples.
4. Jerusalem 1847. There is a detailed account on pages 107–110 of James and Elizabeth Finn, Stirring Times, Vol 1. Summary from Simon Montefiore, Biography of Jerusalem: "In 1847, a Christian Arab boy attacked a Jewish youth who threw back a pebble which grazed the Arab boy’s foot. The Greek Orthodox traditionally the most anti-Semitic community, quickly backed by the Muslim mufti and qadi, accused the Jews of procuring Christian blood to bake the Passover biscuits: the blood libel had come to Jerusalem, but the sultan’s ban, granted to Montefiore after the Damascus affair, proved decisive." No actual violence mentioned in either source. No pogrom.
5. Cairo 1844. Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands, p106: "Muslims in Cairo accused the Jews of murdering a Christian for his blood. This time, however, Muhammad Ali quickly stepped in to prevent any violence and to see that justice was done." Encyclopedia Judaica, v15, p530: "In 1844 a blood libel occurred in Egypt when the Jews of Cairo were accused of murdering a Christian. Only the firmness of Muhammad Ali prevented the outbreak of violence." No pogrom.
6. Mansura 1877. Jacob Landau, The Jews in nineteenth-century Egypt, p39: (summary) After a Muslim child disappeared, the Jews were accused and a mob came to search for the child in the synagogue and Jewish homes. The child was found elsewhere and the Muslim inciters were given a large fine. This event was undoubtedly terrifying for the Jews, but neither Landau nor the primary source he gives (La Levanon, May 16, 1877, p320) mention any injuries. No pogrom.
7. Alexandria 1870. Jacob Landau, The Jews in nineteenth-century Egypt, pp182–183: (summary) A Maltese citizen accused a Jew of kidnapping his daughter. The Jew was arrested and put on trial. No pogrom.
8. Dayr al-Qamar 1847. Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands, p106: A blood libel by local Maronites did not "[end] in tragedy". No pogrom.
9. Aleppo 1850. Yaron Harel. Jewish-Christian relations in Aleppo as background for the Jewish response to the events of October 1850, International Journal of Middle East Studies, Vol. 30, No. 1 (Feb., 1998), pp77–96 provides a very detailed account. Muslim rioters attacked the Christian quarter, killing many. The riots were put down with much death and destruction. Harel shows that reports that the Jewish quarter was also attacked were not true, based on a contemporary Jewish account and other evidence. The riots resulted from Muslim political hatred of Christians, and in this opinion the Jews sided with the Muslims. "Moreover, Muslims encouraged Jews to take revenge on their Christian enemies when the latter harassed them with libelous accusations". Harel mentions a blood libel made by Christians in 1853, but "[t]he court, composed of three Muslim notables, ruled unequivocally that the accusation was a libelous falsehood". No pogrom.
10. My aim is to discredit the claim that Bodansky's list is a list of pogroms. I don't intend to give the impression that there was never any violence against Jews. Some of these blood libels led to violence, but I did not find any examples involving mass casualties and none that are called pogroms by academic sources (except Damascus 1840 which rightfully has its own paragraph). The usual is like Damanhur 1873. Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands, pp426–7: "the native Turks entered the School, beating the Jews who were found there, breaking the Ark of the Holy Law". In Port Said 1892, a Greek mob inflamed by rumors that Jews had kidnapped a Greek girl beat up an elderly Jew who then died of shock. Windows were broken, rioters arrested, no other serious injuries (Jacob M. Landau, Ritual murder accusations and persecutions of Jews in 19th century Egypt, Sefunot, v5 1961, 417–460). I don't believe these qualify as pogroms and in any case the sources don't call them that.

I have information on most of the other incidents too, but enough is enough. Bodansky's list is fake. Zero^talk 03:51, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be better to keep them, just change "pogroms" to "blood libels", in those cases where it is applicable? Debresser (talk) 14:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

DONE. Y --GHcool (talk) 16:57, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC

Talk:Ilhan_Omar#RFC has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Benevolent human (talk) 00:38, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit Request

Please add the following to the front of the "Israeli Arabs" section:

Of all groups surveyed, a 2010 Pew Research global poll found that Israeli Arabs have the lowest rate of anti-Jewish attitudes in the Middle East.

Scharb (talk) 18:58, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:04, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

References

The first paragraph needs improvement

The real reasons there’s so much antisemitism in the Middle East: Nakba, Killings and massacres during the 1948 Palestine war, Israeli torture in the occupied territories, Israeli demolition of Palestinian property, Price tag attack policy, Zionist political violence, Jewish religious terrorism, Blockade of the Gaza Strip, Dahiya doctrine, etc. I think this article would be improved if these things were mentioned in the first paragraph. ILoveHirasawaYui (talk) 05:45, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

This is not a useful suggestion. Articles are based on what reliable sources say, not on what editors believe. Zero^talk 12:01, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2023

2001:56A:7D26:6D00:8CE4:BE49:E78F:9B36 (talk) 04:42, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Arabs cannot be antisemitic as Arabs are semites

EXTREMELY MAD AT ISRAEL is not ANTISEMITISM

Egypt was so antisemitic that my husband's father and uncle ran the largest textile factiory of the middle-east. My husban is 75% ashkenazi with both parents born and raised in Egypt and there for I don't know how long (must ask).

The ARabe world had always said NO to Israel. Yes they were losers but they were asked.

Now you are insulting everybody with this word antisemitic which no Jew is willing to define, but we are at fault.

I am sure all the Arab Jews hated Jews after 1948, but not because they had lost a war, but because they had sa no to a European country. Indeed, implanting Europe there was by nature raising standards to a level people who had been peasants all their life could never rival with. Normally these people comply or leave.

ISRAEL IS THE CAUSE OF WHAT YOU CALL ANTISEMITISM. EUROPEEAN DIASPORA WERE EXPELLED AS WELL. Leaving Neveland (talk) 05:11, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

DEFINE ANTISEMITIC PLEASE

Arab Jews and Sefardi were held in contempt and considered inferior in the ME and Maghreb. At least some close told me so. I watched a documentary film (not in English) about the creation of Israel. Turns out we would have to call Ashkenazi antisemitic based on the way they treated Arab-Jews. Leaving Neveland (talk) 05:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC

Timeline of antisemitism has an RfC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. patsw (talk) 23:28, 16 January 2024 (UTC)