Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming contains the collected discussion on the naming of Saddam Hussein. Please do not attempt to change the use of Saddam's name in this article without reading and understanding the archived discussion. Thank you. The archive includes the following issues:
"Saddam" vs "Hussein" vs "Saddam Hussein" as the short form of the name in the article.
Whether there should be some form of disclaimer regards which is "correct" on the article.
Transliterations: Husayn vs Hussain.
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Ad Nauseam, not Nasuem
"...which stages the story ad nasuem..." is incorrect; the term is "ad nauseam." If the word is misspelled in the passage being quoted, there should be a [sic] after "nasuem." ~~Mpaniello~~
citations needed
"Hussein's rule was a repressive dictatorship[12] notorious for it's human rights abuses." You cite that he was a dictator but not that he was notorious for human rights abuses. While it may seem obvious (sic) to westerners it needs a solid citation. -thanks
Rehaul Iran-Iraq war reason at the start of the wikipage
The start of the page overly demonizes Saddam, and attempts to make the whole reason of the Iran-Iraq war as a war for land, and for oil. Even thou, many historians, book-writers, Iranian Generals, Iraqi Generals, and even saddam himself all deny saddam wanting to gain land in kuzehstan, Saddam had already attempted to establish formal ties with Khomeini, which has been noted in the iran-iraq war wikipage, Saddam hussein had also offered peace multiple times, which is not mentioned in the start of the wiki, all the wiki says is that "Saddam ordered the 1980 invasion of Iran in a purported effort to capture Iran's Arab-majority Khuzistan province and thwart Iranian attempts to export their own 1979 revolution. The Iran–Iraq War ended after nearly eight years in a ceasefire after a gruelling stalemate that cost somewhere around a million lives and economic losses of $561 billion in Iraq." Which makes saddam look like a warmonger, even thou it was ayatollah khomeini who was warmongering, and attempting to start a conflict with Iraq, saddam offered peace 2 weeks into the Iran-Iraq war, when iraq had succeded in its attempts to stop the spread of iranian influence, and stop the contintious raids by khomeini's-forces, but that is not mentioned here, aswell as the 1982 peace-offer, Khomeini refused to accept peace. The page should establish the true motives of the Iran-Iraq war, and showcase khomeini's warmongering, and refusal for peace. This part of the article seems way to bias for Iran, and makes Iraq look at fault for the war, and makes Saddam look like a manic who wanted to conqueror everything around him. I had rewritten that part of the article, included 3-4 sources, which were all trusted sources, and mostly archieved footage, which can not be discredited. I also included quotes and sections of western books, Instead of reverting my well-sourced edit, i would like this to be debated, and then eventually reverted back to my edit. Imperial Tsar (talk) 22:34, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Imperial Tsar, I reverted your edit to the lede summary because it introduced novel claims to the lede not found in the article body, violated summary style with a blockquote from Ruhollah Khomeini (who is not the subject of this article), and was poorly-sourced, relying primarily on an unreliable YouTube video and a dated 1987 journal article by an author whom contemporaneous U.S. officials cited to justify their policy of United States support for Iraq during the Iran–Iraq War in order to advance a minority view that Iraq's September 1980 invasion of Iran was a preemptive war. (Nita M. Renfrew, the author of the 1987 Foreign Policy article in question, herself acknowledges that she is advancing a minority, revisionist view on the origin of the conflict, even by the standards of 1987: "[A]lthough Americans revile Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's Iran, they also have little sympathy for Iraq, which they believe started the war. ... The truth, however, is that, although organized units of the Iraqi army were the first to cross the Iran–Iraq border on September 22, 1980, Iran started the war.")
By the way, for a more recent academic study based largely on declassified Iraqi archives, I recommend The Iran–Iraq War: A Military and Strategic History, which provides the following summary of the events leading to open warfare between Iran and Iraq:
"Another [July 1980 Iraqi intelligence] report indicated: 'We expect more deterioration of the general situation of Iran's fighting capability. It is probable it will send other troops to the Kurdish region to confront the armed Kurds. Moreover, the shortage of spare parts and the continuation of the general dislocation and contradiction will lead to the continuous decline in combat capability. ... [I]t is clear that, at present, Iran has no power to launch wide offensive operations against Iraq, or to defend on a large scale.' .. On 7 September 1980, Iraq accused Iran of shelling Iraqi villages in the territories of Zain al-Qaws and Saïf Saad on 4 September 1980. Iraq demanded that the Iranian forces in those territories evacuate and return the villages to Iraq. Tehran gave no reply. Iraqi forces then moved to 'liberate' the villages, and on 10 September announced that its forces had done so in a short, sharp military engagement. ... On 14 September 1980, Iran announced it would no longer abide by the 1975 Algiers Agreement. Given the scene that was set, it was no surprise that on 17 September, five days before the invasion, Iraq declared the accords null and void. ... On 22 September, Iraqi units crossed the frontier. ... Interestingly, the Iranians, despite their jabbing at Saddam with scurrilous propaganda and a terrorist campaign, appear to have discounted the possibility that the Iraqis would actually attack them. Therefore, they made no serious military preparations."—Murray, Williamson; Woods, Kevin M. (2014). "A context of 'bitterness and anger'". The Iran–Iraq War: A Military and Strategic History. Cambridge University Press. pp. 59-63 (e-book, page numbers approximate). ISBN9781107062290.
Just to specifically reply to ur argument that the videos are unreliable, when there direct videos with footage showcasing ayatollah khomeini himself, refusing peace with Iraq and announcing himself, that he will fight Iraq till the end, it also shows ayatollah khomeini himself warmongering war, and you still havent addressed the fact that Saddam Hussein had attempted to formalize offical relations with the Ayatollah, and establish a good-bond with the Iranians, at which the Iranians deny, The Iranians had also engaged in multiple skirmishes aganist the Iraqi-armies around the shatt-al arab waterway, Saddam Hussein had started mobolization and prepations for an attack after Khomeini continiouslly filmed himself calling on the Iraqi Military to rise up aganist Saddam, and called upon all shia-leaders in Iraq to follow after him. When Saddam had taken hundreds of kilometres of land, and was still very-much succeding, he offerde peace, (almost less then 2 weeks into the war), which the Ayatollah refused, just to note, the peace offer was a white-peace, and had no offical deal in it, Saddams offensive was not propelled to annex iranian land, because this would clash with saddams ideas, and would ruin saddams relations with MEC, whom he was working with, Saddam Hussein also put in both iraqi newspapers, and made sure foregin papers knew, he had no ambitions to annex kuzehstan. If Saddam had want to annex kuzehstan, he would not have offered peace for the 7th time in 1988, when he had completely ruined the Iranian counter-offensives, and had again pushed back into Iran, Saddam was fully able to occupy kuzehstan, but he never went into war for land. The Idea of saddam wanting land was published by Iranians, and was slowly caught on. Even thou Saddam himself made sure both Khomeini and the Iraqi-people knew this was not his ambition. I understand you do not like my sources because they are archived youtube videos. But there is simply no other way to get archived videos, it is a primary source, and has not be altered, and it has been translated.
Saddams attack on Iran was to stop khomeini's eventual war, which would have happened in the mids 80's seeing at how much Khomeini talked about spreading his shia-revolution into Iraq.
Khomeini himself stated that
"The Iraqi army must rise up aganist saddam like the iranians did aganist the Shah, and we will help you"
Khomeini was in that phrase, threating to intervene in a shia revolution if it was to occur in Iraq.
Any claim that "khomeini's eventual war ... would have happened in the mids 80's" seems unlikely to satisfy the requirements of international law, as this hypothetical future Iranian attack would not have been "imminent" in September 1980.
Regardless, Wikipedia cannot rely on YouTube videos from unverified channels for multiple reasons, not only because we are unable to fully account for the provenance of said videos, but also because, even if we stipulate as to the authenticity of their content, it would still require secondary sources to interpret or analyze the historical significance of any statements therein, lest editors engage in original research by way of synthesis.
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