User talk:Path2space

Welcome!

Hello, Path2space, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of your recent edits to the page Nuclear thermal rocket did not conform to Wikipedia's verifiability policy, and may have been removed. Wikipedia articles should refer only to facts and interpretations verified in reliable, reputable print or online sources or in other reliable media. Always provide a reliable source for quotations and for any material that is likely to be challenged, or it may be removed. Wikipedia also has a related policy against including original research in articles.

If you are stuck and looking for help, please see the guide for citing sources or come to The Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Here are a few other good links for newcomers:

The five pillars of Wikipedia
Introduction tutorial
Contributing to Wikipedia
How to edit a page
Introduction to referencing
Help pages
Simplified Manual of Style
Task Center – need some ideas of what kind of things need doing? Go here.

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need personal help ask me on my talk page, or ask a question on your talk page. Again, welcome. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:50, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind message. I signed my name. I am trying to figure out how to insert a new footnote 66 in the reference list (I added the citation right at the end my inserted sentence but it is not a numbered footnote in the reference list). I read this Help:VisualEditor#Adding a new reference. But you can see, I am floundering. Thanks. Path2space (talk) 17:23, 30 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

May 2023

Hi Path2space! I noticed that you recently marked an edit as minor at Military Power of the People's Republic of China that may not have been. "Minor edit" has a very specific definition on Wikipedia—it refers only to superficial edits that could never be the subject of a dispute, such as typo corrections or reverting obvious vandalism. Any edit that changes the meaning of an article is not a minor edit, even if it only concerns a single word. Please see Help:Minor edit for more information. Thank you. — RTao (talk • contribs) 01:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, just saw your comment. Now I reviewed Help: Minor edit page and found it helpful and informative. Appreciate it. Path2space (talk) 01:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

June 2023

Thank you for your contributions. It seems that you may have added public domain content to one or more Wikipedia articles, such as Science policy of the United States. You are welcome to import appropriate public domain content to articles, but in order to meet the Wikipedia guideline on plagiarism, such content must be fully attributed. This requires not only acknowledging the source, but acknowledging that the source is copied. There are several methods to do this described at Wikipedia:Plagiarism#Public-domain sources, including the usage of an attribution template. Please make sure that any public domain content you have already imported is fully attributed. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 20:27, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your kind note. Will review and follow the guideline. Path2space (talk) 23:35, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Dianna. If you are an administrator, please help remove this file that I uploaded it by mistake (copyright issues). File talk:Criminal Defense in China The Politics of Lawyers at Work-Cambridge University Press (2016).pdf

I was to upload the book cover under fair use but found out the book was uploaded. I have made a removal request at the talk page. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 22:15, 29 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Meditation

Hi, I reverted some of your edits per MOS:REPEATLINK. JimRenge (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I will review the linking style page to make sure I do properly linking. Path2space (talk) 00:20, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Radio Free Asia

I tagged some material on Radio Free Asia with {{page needed}} and {{verification needed}}. You completely removed the tagged material, and rewrote the section, with the verification tag as justification / rationale. I've reverted these changes. The material has since been verified (by me, who tagged it in the first place).

In the future, please do not remove properly sourced material or citations merely because they're tagged as needing verification. These types of tags are quite common for books, periodicals, printed materials, paywalled services, or things not readily accessible. It simply means they need to be checked – which is true for all material on Wiki – and doesn't mean there is any problems with them. -- dsprc ^[talk] 05:55, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Got it. Thanks for reverting. I verified the link but since I did not have the hardcopy book to add the pages, I used the original source of the statute, not a commentary, per editorial guideline. Understand once the book is verified, the verification tag may be removed and the page tag should remain. Hope the author of the article or someone has the book to complete the page tag. Appreciated your remarks. Path2space (talk) 11:08, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"I verified the link…"

It's the source material which must be verified if challenged (being skeptical, I challenged). Unfortunately, the linked URL points to a Google Books page which doesn't allow searching text strings. I've since "procured" an electronic copy which does.

"…used the original source of the statute, not a commentary…"

Generally, the project prefers the latter over the former: WP:RSPRIMARY. I wouldn't call it "commentary"… IMHO, it's more curation and contextualization of these information artifacts.

"…per editorial guideline."

To which guideline are you referring?

"…page tag should remain."

You're welcome to retag if desired.

Pages aren't required (or possible!) if citing an eBook, as they lack distinct pagination. Current guidance is chapters are sufficient in aiding verification when eBooks come into play. I could try adding quotations but, article material and source are expansive, and difficult to extract with fragmented – and ethically constrained – technology accessible to me on mobile… Not entirely sure how to cite it given the aforementioned eBook limitations (I've enough trouble with {{harvp}} as is).

Also: there are no "authors"… each member in the project collectively contributes to our articles. Thank you. -- dsprc ^[talk] 05:36, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your detailed remarks. Path2space (talk) 01:13, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Human rights without frontiers moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to Human rights without frontiers. Unfortunately, it is not ready for publishing because it has no sources and it needs more sources to establish notability. Your article is now a draft where you can improve it undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Edward-Woodrow :) _[talk] 14:25, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. I was adding the references to the published article and now understand that one must have references before publishing. Will follow the instruction and republish it with references. Thanks again. Path2space (talk) 14:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia and copyright

Hello Path2space! Your additions to Chinese intelligence activity abroad have been removed in whole or in part, as they appear to have added copyrighted content without evidence that the source material is in the public domain or has been released by its owner or legal agent under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. (To request such a release, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission.) While we appreciate your contributions to Wikipedia, there are certain things you must keep in mind about using information from sources to avoid copyright and plagiarism issues.

You can only copy/translate a small amount of a source, and you must mark what you take as a direct quotation with double quotation marks (") and cite the source using an inline citation. You can read about this at Wikipedia:Non-free content in the sections on "text". See also Help:Referencing for beginners, for how to cite sources here.
Aside from limited quotation, you must put all information in your own words and structure, in proper paraphrase. Following the source's words too closely can create copyright problems, so it is not permitted here; see Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing. Even when using your own words, you are still, however, asked to cite your sources to verify the information and to demonstrate that the content is not original research.
We have strict guidelines on the usage of copyrighted images. Fair use images must meet all ten of the non-free content criteria in order to be used in articles, or they will be deleted. To be used on Wikipedia, all other images must be made available under a free and open copyright license that allows commercial and derivative reuse.
If you own the copyright to the source you want to copy or are a legally designated agent, you may be able to license that text so that we can publish it here. Understand, though, that unlike many other sites, where a person can license their content for use there and retain non-free ownership, that is not possible at Wikipedia. Rather, the release of content must be irrevocable, to the world, into either the public domain (PD) or under a suitably free and compatible copyright license. Please see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials.
Also note that Wikipedia articles may not be copied or translated without attribution. If you want to copy or translate from another Wikipedia project or article, you must follow the copyright attribution steps described at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. See also Help:Translation#License requirements.

It's very important that contributors understand and follow these practices, as policy requires that people who persistently do not must be blocked from editing. If you have any questions about this, please ask them here on this page, or leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. — Diannaa (talk) 16:59, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Diannaa, for the detailed instructions. They are very helpful. While I add inline citations at the end of sentences of the removed edits, I see I need to use more my own words and structure (proper paraphrasing) without making them original research. Appreciate your time and efforts. Path2space (talk) 20:00, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Path2space. Thank you for your work on Robotic Servicing of Geosynchronous Satellites program. User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good start

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 01:13, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000: Appreciate your time and effort. ~~~~ Path2space (talk) 01:50, 31 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Voting for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023 is now open!

Voting is now open for the WikiProject Military History newcomer of the year and military historian of the year awards for 2023! The the top editors will be awarded the coveted Gold Wiki . Cast your votes vote here and here respectively. Voting closes at 23:59 on 30 December 2023. On behalf of the coordinators, wishing you the very best for the festive season and the new year. Hawkeye7 (talk · contribs) via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:56, 22 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome!

Hello Path2space and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

Our navigation box points to most of the useful pages within the project.
The announcement and open task box is updated very frequently. You can watchlist it if you are interested, or you can add it directly to your user page by copying the following: {{WPMILHIST Announcements}}.
The project Academy has lots of useful information about editing and writing military history articles. One very useful introductory course to get you started is Writing a good stub.
Important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it.
The project has several departments, which handle article quality assessment, detailed article and content review, writing contests, and article logistics.
We have a number of task forces that focus on specific topics, nations, periods, and conflicts.
We've developed a set of guidelines that cover article structure and content, template use, categorization, and many other issues of interest.
If you're looking for something to work on, there are many articles that need attention, as well as a number of review alerts.
If you would like to receive the project's monthly newsletter, The Bugle, please sign up here.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask any of the project coordinators or any other experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome, and we are looking forward to seeing you around! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the kind note. Path2space (talk) 18:30, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Path2space. Thank you for your work on Xiaoning et al v. Yahoo! Inc, et al. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Hello my friend! Good day to you. Thanks for creating the article, I have marked it as reviewed. Have a blessed day!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|SunDawn}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. (Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 12:17, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your time and efforts. Path2space (talk) 03:51, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Concern regarding Draft:Human rights without frontiers

Hello, Path2space. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Human rights without frontiers, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 15:06, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Standard citations needed template

The conventional approach to marking needed citations is with {{cn|{{subst:DATE}}}}. (— 𝐬𝐝𝐒𝐝𝐬 — - talk) 01:35, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Path2space (talk) 23:15, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Epoch Times

Please see WP:NOELBODY. Thank you, Polygnotus (talk) 23:17, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing my edits. Appreciate the note. Path2space (talk) 01:56, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned non-free image File:Cover of the book Becoming Activists in Global China.jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Cover of the book Becoming Activists in Global China.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:36, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the reminder. I have uploaded to the infobox of the wiki article (book review). Path2space (talk) 17:40, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lawsuits

Thanks for improving the lawsuits stuff at Steele dossier. I have requested help at Wikiproject Law before and gotten no help. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 03:28, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I saw the request yesterday and plan to gradually dig out some case information to the extent it is available online. Thanks. Path2space (talk) 03:51, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great! -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 04:38, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good work you're doing. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:05, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There have long been complaints that the article is too long, but per WP:Preserve, we don't delete good content. I have felt that if there's any content that we could split out into its own sub-article, it would be that Litigation section. Something like Litigation involving Steele dossier would make a nice article. Per WP:Summary style , we would need to write a summary paragraph to leave in place of the removed content. Doing this would also allow for adding more context in the sub-article. Would you be interested in doing that? -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 23:52, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just did some moving-around edits to the cases based on the parties in the case. A separate article may make it easier in that each subheading is a lawsuit, e.g., X v. Y and Z. I am happy to contribute after I finish adding court information for the other lawsuits under Litigation. It may take me some time, though. Appreciate the corrections of my typos. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 00:32, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 00:36, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just thought of something. I originally grouped these by the people involved, but maybe it would make more sense (and prevent confusion between other cases involving the same people) to make it all chronological by start/first filing date. Then everything related to that case (including appeals), start to finish, would be in that section, possibly with internal subsections. What do you think of that idea? -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That is an excellent recommendation. Each heading (or subheading) could be the case name, i.e., X v. Y and Z, with all the information related to the case under the heading. All headings (subheadings) are to be in chronological order based on the filing date of the complaint. Replacing "Filed by" with "X v. Y and Z" in the subheadings can be done either in the current article or the new sub-article. Most of the case names are already in the references.

I made some edits primarily for clarity. Some minor edits may be needed once the section is moved to a new sub-article. I will think about a summary paragraph this weekend. I appreciate any thoughts you may have about what to be included in the summary paragraph. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 01:21, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how much experience you have with article creation, so forgive me for giving so much detail below. You may not need any of it.

I suspect it will be easier, and give you more freedom to work, if you move the content to the new article as soon as possible before making all those changes, but do it all in an orderly and strategic fashion. Here's my suggestion. It is definitely NOT binding:

COPY all the litigation stuff to a userspace draft at something like User:Path2space/Litigation. That will end up being moved to mainspace as the new article. At the top, include this stuff: '''{{NOINDEX|visible=yes}}''' {{Userspace draft | source=ArticleWizard | date=August 2024}} Remove it before moving the draft to mainspace.
Create the WP:LEAD for the new article. The LEAD should briefly mention the types of lawsuits, names of litigants on both sides, and the general trend of the results (all but one lost, or had thrown out, their cases, IIRC). About 2-3 short paragraphs should do the job. You don't have to deal with each one separately. The mere mention of the names and type of cases does that job. The body has the nitty gritty details.
Copy that lead and use it as the summary paragraph(s) in the old Steele dossier#Litigation section. Write an edit summary: "Preparing for splitting off this section to resolve undue weight problems."
Then prepare to move the subpage to mainspace as a new article, with links back to the main article. Do all this in your userspace first. Get it ready so it looks like a real article. Maybe even include an image of the first page of one of the main lawsuits. If you use a government lawsuit, there are no copyright problems. You can import it to Wikimedia Commons and use it. When you think it's ready, do it.
Immediately install the "main" hatnote at Steele dossier#Litigation, which has a link to the newly created article. Readers can now hop right over and see all the details.
Then delete all the litigation stuff, leaving the hatnote and summary paragraph(s). Edit summary: "Resolved size and undue weight problems by moving this litigation stuff to a new subarticle."
Then delete the "too long" template at the top of the article as the article will be smaller.

In the new article, make sure to keep, and even expand, the stuff that's relevant to the dossier, as that is the only justification for keeping that stuff. We don't normally keep lists of lawsuits, but when relevant, we do. Trump has several such articles. In fact, pull details from the lawsuits that are relevant to both the narrative of the dossier and reason for the lawsuit. Provide context. A few choice quotes and summaries would be nice. The topic of the lawsuit gives the clues.

It will be a legitimate spin-off fork article, not a forbidden POV fork, one that you created. The main justification for doing all this is that the content creates an undue weight situation where it is. I suggested a title, but you may feel another one might be better.

These are just suggestions, subject to massive tweaking, and even rejection by you. That's how I would do it, but you are not me. Feel free to get creative, and also to ask for help. I might be able to do some of the grunt work. I like formatting refs. You may not have noticed, but all refs in the dossier article have a Harvard style ref format. See User:Valjean#A basic citation template I like to use. Another format might be better for legal citations. I don't know. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 04:30, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the detailed instructions. Under the current Litigation section, I replaced the subheadings using case names and will post here for your review/editing a draft summary of 2-3 paragraphs per your suggestion above. I do not intend to edit the current Litigation any further unless I have created errors warranting clarification before the section is moved to the new article. As for creating the new article, given your expertise, it may be best if you could do the heavy lifting of creating it so that nothing is lost during the process. I am available to tweak further to address your suggestions for improving the new article. Appreciate your time and effort. Path2space (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll help where I can. The formatting is something you're doing just fine. It might be best to now leave the Steele dossier section as is. More work there may be wasted effort that would be better used in the draftspace. Get it ready for final release. I have just COPIED stuff there now and you can continue at User:Path2space/Litigation. Go for it! -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:04, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added the lede. Please review and edit. I also made other minor edits in the draft. I realized BuzzFeed is listed as "Inc." in the complaints, so I de-italicized the word. Since the article's title will be Litigation involving Steele dossier, all cases can perhaps be at the same level. I tried to avoid making the article read like the legal cases in Wiki where the court holdings dominate the content. Thanks. Path2space (talk) 00:39, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your expertise. Let me know if there is anything I should do to improve it further. If not, I can do #3 above, but I am unfamiliar with #4 and #5. I will look for an image later (I have uploaded images before). I can do #6 and #7. Appreciate your guidance and help. Path2space (talk) 23:56, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You've done a lot of great work. Do you feel that it is "finished" enough now to go public? If so, then do #4. Copy that suggested title, delete it and the unnecessary stuff at the top of the page, then push that "Move" tab and paste in the new title.

You can do #3 & 5-7 after #4. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:54, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

So much appreciate your patience. I did all of it, yet there are some minor issues. I have not figured out how to do #5 - "install the "main" hatnote at Steele dossier#Litigation" but I did a "Main article" link instead. Also, after I pushed it to the main page, ref #5 has an error. Although I found the reference should be "SICv5_8/18/2020" (from the edit history page), I looked and haven't been able to see the complete URL to correct the error. Let me know what else I may have missed. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AnomieBOT resolved the ref SICv5_8/18/2020. I also added a short title. Thanks. Path2space (talk) 18:36, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It all looks good to me. I may start making a few ref standardisation formatting things. Nothing major. Now let's see how others react. There are nearly always some POV pushers who have an agenda to push and give problems. Others may point out legitimate issues. Just keep an eye on the talk page and all editing. You no longer own that content, so collaborative editing now takes over the process. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:41, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There were a few firsts for me, and I could not have done them without your detailed guidance. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 20:04, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're very welcome. When I wrote "main" hatnote, I meant exactly what you did. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:15, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for August 18

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited DARPA Prize Competitions, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Axios. Such links are usually incorrect, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. (Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.)

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, --DPL bot (talk) 07:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voting for coordinators is now open!

Nominations for the upcoming project coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available here. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the current coord team. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Voting for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open!

Voting for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open! A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. Register your vote here by 23:59 UTC on 29 September! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:35, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation link notification for October 28

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Jiangsu State Security Department, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Bloomberg.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 07:55, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected. Thank you. Path2space (talk) 11:29, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]