Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 June 30

30 June 2007

Lenny Loosejocks

Lenny Loosejocks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

Deleted as Non-notable Advert with insufficient sources. I arugue that sources were indeed missing, but Article was not non-notable, and not an advert. Maybe should be restored along with Pullyapantsup, Australia (possibly merged) and tagged with {{Unreferenced}} Kc4 16:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• Endorse Valid AfD. Consensus is clear when the quality of the arguments (and policy) is taken into account. Eluchil404 17:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse you can't argue the AfD was wrong unless you have a strong argument (like coming up with those sources). DRV is mainly concerned with whether the deleting administrator's actions were reasonable. And asking for an unreferenced article is be undeleted so you can add an unreferenced tag is scoffable. -N 20:00, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment why waste the effort of creating the article in the first place, most of the source are the lenny games themselves. Kc4 00:14, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
    • A lack of secondary sources makes a prima facia case for non-notability. Articles on minor subjects without independent sources are routinely deleted as inappropriate for Wikipedia. That doesn't imply any particular judgment on the subject itself (I happen to really like the games in question) but rather goes to the appropriate scope of an encyclopedia and the necessity for attribution of content. Eluchil404 19:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
• Comment as closing admin this wasnt deleted as an advert that was the previous WP:CSD deletion which was under G11, that discussion in January concluded it wasnt advertising, hence the deletion wasnt appropriate, though it also indicated it was probably WP:CSD#A7(non notable). This AfD raised the issue of notability while the majority opinion was to delete, the keep opinions didnt offer anything to establish notability, the one source provided was only a game review there was nothing in the review to established it as being notable. Gnangarra 09:35, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
• Endorse closure Closing admin followed clear consensus; no case. DRV is not the Supreme Court. Orderinchaos 12:29, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
• Comment User:Klingoncowboy4 suggested I come here as the closing admin. Sorry, I don't have a mop it wasn't me. My suggestion was for a merge but I can see why it would have been deleted.Garrie 06:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thomas Howarth

Thomas Howarth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)

My concern here is that the discussion was speedily closed after notability guidelines created by Wikipedia:WikiProject Cricket were cited. However, these guidelines do not appear in Wikipedia:Notability, either as guidleines or a proposal. Instead, they are confined to the Wikiproject page, and appear to have been decided on by Wikiproject participants. Notability proposals put forward by Wikiprojects which are listed under WP:NOTE would be a different case, as then the whole community would get a chance to take part in the discussion. However, confining the discussion to a Wikiproject means most people are unaware of proposals, even though they could end up being cited in AfD. This seems to me to be something of a walled garden. I'd say that only notability/inclusion criteria that come about via discussions on Wikipedia:Notability pages should be cited as consensus decisions in AfD debates. Therefore, I propose the article be relisted in AfD Lurker 14:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• A speedy keep is a procedural not a substantive decision. If you think the article should be deleted, just relist it yourself. You don't have to come to DRV. Pan Dan 14:54, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• The article was created (by myself) and speedily kept by longstanding principles on WP:CRIC, and WP:SNOW respectively. Going through another AfD will, I wholeheartedly believe, produce the same outcome as before, however, if you wish to do so, feel free. Bobo. 15:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

• To refer to a Wikipedia:Notability guideline, here is the criteria for notability of athletes: "Competitors who have played in a fully professional league, or a competition of equivalent standing in a non-league sport" First-class cricket is the highest level of the game before we get to international contests, and is the level at which the vast majority (if not all) of the world's fully professional leagues are played at. This player played one such game, hence is notable. Andrew nixon 17:13, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
• You can argue that the Wikipedia notability guideliners should be changed, but if the current clear guideline quoted by Andrew is to be changed then it needs to be replaced by something equally clear if we are to know where we stand. In the meantime, I can see no grounds for deleting the article. If the final decision is to delete it, then there are literally hundreds of other articles that logically should go as well. JH (talk page) 17:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
• Of course not all first class cricketers were professionals. Many were amatuers. That's why you need a clear line. First class or list A seems sensible. Spartaz ^Humbug! 22:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
• Well, if there is a real notability guideline, then I see no need for relisting it. I raised it because of the citation of a Wikiproject page as a consensus notability guideline- I didn't realise there was something in the actual notability guidelines that would allow it to be kept. Nomination withdrawn Lurker 13:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
• Overturn All first class cricketers meet the notability requirement for sportsmen. Haddiscoe 00:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)