Talk:Shrove Tuesday

This needs a link from Lent

It is done. GusGus 21:43, 2004 Feb 25 (UTC)

I would have to vote, Shrove Tuesday is on its own. Being raised in the Episcopal Church I have always heard the term Shrove Tuesday even before I herd of Mardi Gras. I feel that the root of the celebration is the same but they have different feelings associated with them. Most people feel that Mardi Gras is a celebration just for the fun of it with a historical religious root that many have forgotten. Mardi Gras is also a week long event that ends on Shrove Tuesday. I think that most people who are familiar with Shrove Tuesday would feel that it is mainly a religious day to prepare for lent. The feast before the fast.

Greasy / fat Tuesday

I'm new here, but i'll put in my two cents worth. The name in the US is not "Fat Tuesday", rather that is an OCCASIONALLY tolerated translation of same. That is, "Mardi Gras" is far more common, and probably came first.

Aside from in Seattle, I have rarely HEARD "Fat Tuesday" actually. And I have *never* heard "Shrove" or "Shriven" - until I went googling around yesterday! I would say that for most people in the US, parties and festivals call "Mardi Gras", while more serious or quasi-religious contexts use "the night before Lent". Even at a church supper last night, everyone was calling it "the night before Lent". No "Shrove", no "Fat" anything.

Nor had I ever heard of "Pancake Day" before either, but something is brewing this year - I saw *6* local churches having "pancake supper"s last night; google caches reveal that last year most of them were simply "pot lucks", no mention of pancakes.

Jumping on the bandwagon, IHOP (chain resto) served *FREE* pancakes all day yesterday! A spokesman confirmed that this was the first time they've ever done that.

I suspect that within 2-3 years, the term "Pancake Day" will start to pop up in the US. If some celeb starts dropping it, perhaps earlier.

Cheers

xxxxx

Well, just to add my two cents: In Southern Germany we celebrate Fat Thursday (= Schmotziger Dunnschtig). "Schmotzig" means fatty/greasy and points to cookies baked in a lot of fat (some types of pancakes = "Fasnachtsküchle" or the "Berliner" = the donut without the hole).

Just a note for anyone who might consider adding alternative translations of "Fat Tuesday": for those not familiar with the US "Mardi Gras", the usual translation in the States is "Fat Tuesday" and that is also an alternative name for the festival. I've ventured the opinion that the "gras" could actually be better translated literally as "greasy" or "fatty", but this seems to be a matter of disagreement. My idea is that "gras", which can mean "fatty" (as in "cheveux gras" seen on bottles of shampoo for greasy hair), refers to the butter and lard people ate on that day, before giving it up, thus "fatty Tuesday". However, other people believe that "gras", which can mean "overweight", refers to the weight people put on eating that food, thus "overweight Tuesday". To me this seems only a matter of opinion, but as the name "Fat Tuesday" is so common, I'm being told my opinion, although a few others share it, is irrelevant and unhelpful and should not be added to the page. As I don't know if I'm right and it's just an alternative idea, I'm removing it, but I thought I'd write a note here in case anyone else had the same idea. Saintswithin 10:21, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Of course you're right. I thought that everyone knew that. Why is there any controversy about it ? -- Derek Ross | Talk 19:03, 2005 Jan 25 (UTC)

well people call it Fat Tuesday in the States and Canada, so get a teensy bit annoyed if you suggest another name might be a better translation :-) Saintswithin 10:11, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Oh, don't let that bother you. It's good for the minority who get wound up about that sort of thing to learn that there's more to the world than the American way. Take a look at the Talk:Yoghurt page for discussion of a similar issue. -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:13, 2005 Jan 26 (UTC)

Pancake Tuesday

As a catholic australian, this day is also referred in my family as pancake tuesday. Not sure how universal it is and is undoubtably from the irish name for it. --agrosquid

I'm a non catholic in England and we call it pancake day. Its only significance to us is its the day we eat pancakes. This is a pretty mainstream thing I'm certain (I recall Blue Peter having a pancake day special when I was a child). This should be mentioned more ihn the article --Josquius 16:47, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I've made a new page for Pancake Day rather than drowning this article with too much information about Britain. Feel free to add your reminiscences about Blue Peter there! Saintswithin 23:25, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Brought up a Scots catholic, we always called it pancake tuesday, never pancake day (to the extent that reading about pancake 'day' here is quite jarring, like reading the word 'rediculous'(sic)). Of course, maybe I always got this wrong as a child too :) Bazzargh 12:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

People in Ireland tend to call it 'Pancake Tuesday' over 'Pancake Day'. In fact, I've never heard anybody ever call it 'Pancake Day'. 83.70.225.197 14:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More accurately "Shriven Tuesday"

With the praiseworthy Wikipedian penchant for a punctilious accuracy that rises above mere outworn tradition and non-American usage, shouldn't this more correctly have been at Shriven Tuesday and, following the general practice, eliminating a redirect from "Shrove Tuesday"? The verb, surely is "shrive, shrove, shriven" "shrove" being the past tense but "shriven" being the preferable past participle to be employed as an adjective according to Wikipedia standards. By settling upon an exquisitely correct title, wouldn't we be demonstrating the superior dependability of our information? Perhaps this would be suitably determined by a vote. --Wetman 04:58, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't the british conjugation be "shrive, shrove, shrived" actually? They are not wont to use the -en forms as often as us Yanks - cf. use of "has drived" where an American would say "has driven".

Come to think of it, I'm even surprised they use the O form in the past tense. As with

US: drive, drove, driven UK: drive, drived, drived

wouldn't a Brit be inclined to use "shrived" as the simple past?

In any case, I do agree with your point about needing the participle, but you can't "correct" a term which has been wrong for 100s of years. I'm sure there are other such examples.

Cheers

xxxxx

I know this is woefully out of date, but I've never heard a literate (i.e. over the age of 5 or so particularly) Brit say 'drived' - the above is tosh. 87.112.67.243 15:09, 17 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

^^^ - Indeed, "drived" is not used by any Englishman over the age of 4. You cannot change the name (i.g. Shrove Tuesday) due to bad spelling/grammar/verb conjugation as it is no longer a sentence, therefore it cannot be corrected.87.74.10.145 08:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well I'm not sure. I intially agreed with you but then thought about it and perhaps you might say "I drived there yesterday" or "He drived me mad!". The so-called 'US' versions are equally (if not more) acceptable though. Anyway, as the person above says, Shrove Tuesday is the name of it, whether thats grammatically correct or not. EAi 14:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Try saying it out loud without sounding like a toddler. It's impossible. No-one sober would say drived. The name of the day is Shrove Tuesday and probably always will be. No offence, but only an idiot would think otherwise. Big Moira 02:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I argue that "Shrove Tuesday" ought to be maintained as a separate article regardless of etymology for the strict and simple reason that this is how it's referred to in many regions, including the region I am from (the southeastern United States, specifically North Carolina). Many Protestant Christian churches here which have no Lenten fast from meat still celebrate Shrove Tuesday *by that name* with at least a secular event; hence merging this with Mardi Gras might provoke further confusion. 199.90.32.252 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)H. Fisher[reply]

Not sure - Christians Stole it from Pagans, Balts?

I am not saying that my question is true, or a fact but it really seems that Christians stole Shrove Tuesday from Pagans, or Balts when Lithuanian king Mindaugas was Baptised, and all of the Lithuanian kingdom was turned/converted to Christianity although they were Pagans. In England, the time of Shrove Tuesday tradition begining was 1445, which was 200 years later after the baptism (1251). In old times, i guess that the spreading of the Shrove tuesday would have went from eastern europe to the celtic (western) europe slowly. Basically i would think that hes a traitor or something and if anyone knows any information about these times, please tell me! User:Wykis

Still, most traditions are being held in Lithuania and Latvia, as well as Poland and other countries around.

Still, it seems odd to have links to Pagans, Balts and Slavs at the bottom, when these things are not mentioned in the article. Ordinary Person 08:45, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

shrove tuesday

Raised as a catholic in australia, 'pancake tuesday' was the name of the day used for kids, we still use the old english 'shrove' among adults, so both is acceptable. The reason was to use up certain 'luxury' foods before giving them up for lent. I really wouldn't say australians refer to the day as 'pancake tuesday' exclusively.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.7.38 (talk • contribs)

Shrove Tuesday is when you prepare your self for Lent to start. You would eat pancakes to fill yourself up with sugar because you are fasting because Jesus was in the desert for forty days and was not tempted but he was pushed to be tempted.

International pancake race

Why was the score of the race deleted? Isopropyl 03:16, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. But isn't it ironic you said what you said on Shrove Tuesday.--Greasysteve13 06:32, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If "it is said" then tell us who said it. Hearsay is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Do villagers say this? You should site a source, but stating that "villagers say" would avoid my searches for the phrase "it is said". WhoSaid?

Are you talking to me or Isopropyl?--Greasysteve13 11:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WhoSaid? is talking to me, although I didn't write that passage. In the future, instead of blanking the section, it's probably better if you reword it. Especially if only three words need to be changed. If you require assistance, editing help is available. Thanks! Isopropyl 13:31, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Main image

...is a crepe? Sherurcij ^{(talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject)} 23:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No the main image is of American style pancakes, thicker griddle pancakes rather than the ones that are traditionally made on Shrove Tuesday or Pancake Day wherever they celebrate it. The main image should be changed to something like this one: http://static.deliaonline.com/images/originals/cc296-basic-pancakes-2-20775.jpg (Check the date of this comment, can you tell I can't wait to make pancakes again! ByteofKnowledge| 21:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What's up with those three thumbnail images after the TOC? They're not all that relevant or pleasing to look at, especially when they're so small. Surely, one pancake image will do? But yes, this has nothing to do with American pancakes. - Mgm|^(talk) 10:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reason for eating pancakes on Shrove Tuesday

When I was living in Scotland, the local Dundonians told me that the reason for eating pancakes on "Shrove Tuesday", was to use up the eggs and milk in the house the night before Lent starts (time of penance and giving up of luxuries). I think something to that effect should be added to the article, because to this point that connection is not clear. Yahawena 20:38, 25 January 2007 (UTC)Els[reply]

Yes, I have hear this too. --mfx ^Q&A 15:15, 15 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this is true, but it should be sourced. EAi 14:49, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with mardi gras?

I'm suggesting a merge or other possible reorganisation at talk:Mardi Gras. Stevage 11:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No way. We are researching Shrove Tuesday for an Australian Catholic school assignment. Mardi Gras isn't relevant to us, though we'd love to visit and participate in one!210.49.178.252 07:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Although both articles are similar, they're both long and both quite distinct in what they cover, I'd leave them as they are. EAi 14:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, absolutely not... cross links could be added, but Shrove Tuesday has a character and a tradition all its own, distinct from Mardi Gras, though both recognize the last day before Lent.

So can we remove the suggestion to merge? W00tfest99 19:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with removing the suggestion to merge, can someone do this? 194.80.32.10 20:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to join the chorus of disagreement. Mardi Gras is a festival to the rest of the world, Shrove Tuesday is a day to make enough pancakes to start involuntary bulimia. The two just happen to be on the same day now, they have diverged so far.Big Moira 02:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge flag removed, consensus quite clearly against (and a year old) 79.72.85.150 (talk) 21:59, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pennsylvania Dutch/Fastnacht Day

This isn't quite an accurate description of fastnachts. They are like a donut, but there is no hole, and they are less sweet. Also, there is never glaze, but they are sometimes dusted with powdered sugar. We refer to Fat Tuesday as Fastnacht (or Fastnaucht) Day, Fastnacht meaning "Fast Night."

reference: http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=2917435 "Some fastnachts are made with yeast, some with potatoes and yeast, and some without either. They call for lard if available. Traditionally, all fastnachts were made with, and fried in, lard" (in order to use up the house's lard befor Lent).

Actually, living in Lancaster county, commercially, glazed is what we predominantly find (and sell out the fastest) I don't know if this is technically correct for the historical culture.Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pancake Day

As an Australian, I have never heard of Pancake Day or Shrove Tuesday refered to as Mardi Gras. I think merging the two titles would make it more confusing for non-Americans to find what information they are looking for. When I hear Mardi Gras, I think of the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras, or the Mardi Gras held in Rio. I had no idea that some people thought that Mardi Gras and Pancake Day were the same thing!

UK, Ireland, Australia --> Commonwealth Countries

Some more investigation would need to be done into this to see if it is really true of most commonwealth countries, but here in Canada we seem to follow the tradition under the UK, Ireland and Australia heading for the most part, calling it "Shrove Tuesday" or occasionally "Pancake Tuesday". Mardi Gras is associated with the New Orleans or Brazilian festivities. The unique tradition here is that we tend to put maple syrup rather than icing sugar on the pancakes. Anyways, perhaps the title for that section should be changed to "Commonwealth Countries" if my suspicion that practices across the commonwealth are mostly similar. Opinions? Renzo 80 15:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe Ireland is a member fo the Commonwealth, but other than that. I would also suspect it's confined to more countries within the Commonwealth (plus Ireland) which have a more "western" culture —The preceding unsigned comment was added by David Underdown (talk • contribs) 15:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

You are correct, Ireland is not a member of the Commonwealth. Ian Goggin 22:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd suggest the British Isles and Commonwealth Countries, but that might be too confusing and have the Irish Nationalists out bombing again (joke, I know you've stopped) Big Moira 02:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge in Fastnacht day

Fastnacht day is a very specific cultures celebration. It may be for the same event, but I don't think they should be merged. Maybe just linked to each other. Trex005 14:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Fasnacht is a very important cultural event in Switzerland (like Carnival is to Rio or Venice) and has nothing to do with Pancakes or the English holiday beyond the fact that it also occurs before Ash Wednesday. Additionally, I'm sure much can be said about both topics, and they would probably each grow to be too large to keep in one article anyway. Let's just link to them in either article but allow each to remain separate. Goldfishbutt 04:46, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree as well - do not merge Fasnacht with Shrove Tuesday, as Fasnacht has different roots. Never in 25 years in southern Germany have I heard of any link between Fasnacht and pancakes...

US usage

I grew up entirely in the US. We referred to it as Shrove Tuesday before I knew of the connection to Mardi Gras. For reference, I grew up in the Houston area in the Episcopal Church. We celebrated with a pancake supper at the church every year. I don't recall actually referring to the day as Pancake Day, though. In fact, we used the terminology separately, with Mardi Gras just being an overall celebration and Shrove Tuesday more tied to the religious aspects. I realize my info is not officially a reliable source, but it was jarring to me to see us excluded from the term. I wonder if perhaps it was an Episcopal thing, what with the Anglican connection? I see someone else mentioned Episcopal up there. --Siradia (talk) 04:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was noticing that this talks alot about it being observed in the U.K. and such, but no mention of it in the U.S. But it seems to be pretty prevelent within the Protestant churches. Sirandia is Episcopal in Texas. I grew up with it in the Methodist church in Ohio and now in Maryland. The article probably should include at least some reference to the U.S. usage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by PerlKnitter (talk • contribs) 14:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]