Talk:Maximilian Kolbe

Accurate Times

Is there a source to the statement that he survived 3 weeks without any water?131.128.220.200 (talk) 02:37, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Considering that, according to the article, he celebrated Mass with bread and wine, it would suggest he may not have been without water. (79.190.69.142 (talk) 16:20, 12 November 2010 (UTC))

And then we even have his real cause of death, which runs contrary to the legend:

http://i.imgur.com/TBSKmnL.jpg --197.229.235.114 (talk) 17:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Westminster Cathedral

The image displayed is definitely not St. Maximilian Kolbe, as anyone can see from comparing the image with all other images of the saint, in which he is clean shaven and wears glasses.86.44.89.116 (talk) 20:22, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

I've reinserted the image of the statue at Westminster Abbey. It certainly is Kolbe, as per the inscription in its base (visible in the full-sized image). True, he is usually depicted as clean shaven and wearing glasses, but for much of his life he had a long beard as was usual for certain Franciscans. See, for instance, this image and also this. I imagine the omission of the glasses is due to the difficulty of craving glasses in stone. The statue is also clearly identified as depicting Maximilian Kolbe on the sculptor's own website. ANB (talk) 15:31, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

In those days, Conventual Franciscans (at least in Poland)typically wore their hair cropped quite short. However, when they went to mission territories, they were allowed to grow their beards. (Nowadays they can have beards or not, as they wish, but in Poland, anyway, they usually aren't allowed to start a beard until well into their novitiate year; it's up to the novice-master to decide. I know this from the assistant novice-master of the Conventual Franciscans in Poland in the Kraków Province. By the way, something you may not be able to discern from black-and-white photographs is that Conventual Franciscans in their home countries wear black habits, but wear grey ones when they are in the mission field.) Maximilian went to Japan for the first time in 1930. He returned to Poland and traveled to India between 1930 and 1936, all the while continuing to let his beard grow. Finally, in 1936, he returned to Niepokalanów when he was made the 'guardian' ('head' of a friary, something like 'abbot' in a monastery) of Niepokalanów. He retained his beard until the outbreak of World War II, when he was told by his provincial to shave it off. This information comes from the Polish text, 'Chronologia życia św. Maksymiliana Marii Kobego' or 'The Chronology of the Life of St Maximilian Kolbe' and from the archivist at Niepokalanów (a document sent to me by the archivist). You can find the story of his beard - and how it survived as a first-class relic - on this webpage: http://www.pastoralcentre.pl/first-class-relics-st-maximilian-kolbe/ This is why you sometimes see him with a very long beard and sometimes see him clean-shaven. The length of his beard dates the pictures as being taken during or after his time in Japan.NuncioInter (talk) 18:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Please don't revert edits wholesale

I made a number of mild copy edits to make the piece read better. If you object to some of them, feel free to edit them back again, but please do not revert my edit wholesale merely because I did not enter each one individually with its own explanatory line!86.44.89.116 (talk) 20:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Canonization

I've altered this
"given that a Christian martyr is one who is killed in odium Fidei while Kolbe was not murdered strictly out of hatred for the Faith"
as the linked page is clear martyrdom is is anyone "who is killed for following Christianity", not just out of odium fidei, while Kolbe's death was as a direct result of his following his Christian beliefs.
But I also want to raise the issue of the next paragraph
"Pope John Paul canonized him as a martyr over his commission's findings"
Does this mean the commission rejected him as a martyr? It isn't clear. Does anyone know? Moonraker12 (talk) 12:11, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I know it is true that Kolbe does not fit the traditional definition of martyr because his death did not directly come about by the definition. I haven't heard that the Pope JPII overrode any commission or anything like that. I think what happened is that a commission determined that he wasn't a martyr in the strict sense of the definition. I know that instead of being declared a martyr he was declared a "Martyr of Charity". I will see if I can find the appropriate sources, but it might take a little time due to a death in the family. The following is a link that talks about him being declared a "Martyr of Charity" http://www.passionistnuns.org/Saints/StMaxKolbe/index.htm Marauder40 (talk) 14:06, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity

In the first paragraph, "was a Pole of German ethnic heritage" was changed to, "was a Polish..." The original was a hard reading and I find the statement questionable. I left the statement in the following paragraph concerning Julius Kolbe being an ethnic German, although I added a citation needed tag. Hopefully a substantial reference can be provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamortify (talk • contribs) 06:47, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Two weeks vs. 10 days vs. a week

An IP editor keeps trying to change the number of days that Maximilian Kolbe was in the underground bunker. Please provide a reliable source for your changes. The current source in that section for the story says. "At every inspection, when almost all the others were now lying on the floor, Fr Kolbe was seen kneeling or standing in the centre as he looked cheerfully in the face of the S. S. men. Two weeks passed in this way. Meanwhile one after another they died, until only Fr Kolbe was left. This the authorities felt was too long; the cell was needed for new victims. So one day they brought in the head of the sick-quarters, a German, a common criminal named Bock, who gave Fr Kolbe an injection of carbolic acid in the vein of his left arm." Marauder40 (talk) 13:09, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 October 2012

There is a reference to the "Giordano Brunisti" in this article. You should cross-reference this to your wiki entry on "Giordano Bruno" for completness as "Brunisti" does not search or google very well but the reference is readily available inside your Wiki itself.

Thx. 216.191.234.70 (talk) 16:14, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Done. Wikified. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 18:45, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Non-specific edit request

At one time this article was easily readable by non-Catholics, but now this article is so "Catholic" that it's almost unintelligible to the non-Catholic reader. For instance, it's not apparent to outsiders that Maximilian was following basic Paulian Christian principles when giving his life for another. The article gets bogged down in legalistic arguments about martyrdom. It's not clear that Maximilian was a normal Christian rather than an manic obsessive driven by Catholic visions and Mary-ism. His life was an inspiration to others, but instead this article is simple a mystical screed for Catholics only. Previously this article could be used by young people as input in their various holocaust school assignments, but now it's hopelessly legalistic and mystical. Can anything be done to make Maximilian's story more universal again? Santamoly (talk) 16:48, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Could you point out where in the entry you feel that this is the case? What do you mean by "Paulian"? Daniel the Monk (talk) 15:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. Start with the second & third paragraphs in the lede: "Kolbe was canonized on 10 October 1982 by Pope John Paul II, and declared a martyr of charity. He is the patron saint of drug addicts, political prisoners, families, journalists, prisoners, and the pro-life movement. Pope John Paul II declared him "The Patron Saint of Our Difficult Century".

"Due to Kolbe's efforts to promote consecration and entrustment to Mary, he is known as the Apostle of Consecration to Mary."

This is extremely esoteric Catholic content that means nothing to the average non-Catholic reader who might benefit from knowing about Maximilian Kolbe. An act of true mercy would be for an editor to delete these entire paragraphs, plus the following in the next section: "Kolbe's life was strongly influenced by a childhood vision of the Virgin Mary that he later described: That night, I asked the Mother of God what was to become of me, a Child of Faith. Then she came to me holding two crowns, one white, the other red. She asked me if I was willing to accept either of these crowns. The white one meant that I should persevere in purity, and the red that I should become a martyr. I said that I would accept them both."

Some Catholics become obsessive about visions of Mary without quite realizing that other less mystical, even ordinary, Christians can benefit from knowing about brave Christians who have gone before them. It was Paul who said that there is no finer act than to gives one's life for another. Just leave out the visions and flighty bits - so that Maximilian's story can be read and shared easily by others who may not be so "advanced" as the Catholics.

While the data might be a bit confusing to some, perhaps many, as a encyclopedia it seems worth listing the information for those to whom it would be relevant, which could include those who do not subscribe to that particular form of religious thought. I think Kolbe's description of his vision is particularly relevant simply on a biographical basis, since it was a major motivation in his later life, given in his own words.

In point of fact, the phrase about giving one's life is not from St. Paul. They are words of Christ, as recorded in the Gospels. But, given this is a completely open site, can you come up with a phrasing or format which might make it clearer to other like yourself? Daniel the Monk (talk) 03:38, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Experience in Prision

Is there any source for the events that happened within the prison cell? It makes sense that he would have celebrated mass since he was a priest. It makes sense that he would have sang hymns. But do we have any source for specifically what was said. For example, if a source can't be found, I would like to remove the portion that says "and encouraged them by telling them they would soon be with Mary in Heaven." I cannot believe that we could have a source for what was said in the prison specifically enough to attribute this phrase with Maximilian Kolbe since all of the prisoners died. Chip (talk) 17:41, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Priests in Auschwitz were not supplied with materials for celebrating Mass. It was an extermination camp: the aim was to kill people immediately by execution or slowly by starvation and work. There is information from a guard or guards of Maximilian singing and encouraging other prisoners, but I don't at the moment have the source. If you have specific questions about Maximilian's life or last days, you can contact the archivists at Niepokalanów in Poland at this address: archiwum@niepokalanow.pl. There is an English-speaking (American) archivist who can help you.NuncioInter (talk) 18:24, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

First-Class Relics of St. Maximilian Kolbe

NuncioInter (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to add the following information the the page for Maximilian Kolbe:

First-class relics of St. Maximilian Kolbe are hairs from his head and beard, preserved without Fr Maximilian’s knowledge by two friars at Niepokalanów who served as barber between 1930 and 1941. Since his beatification in 1971, more than 1,000 first-class relics have been distributed around the world for public veneration. Second-class relics such as Fr. Maximilian’s personal effects, clothing and liturgical vestments, are preserved in his cell and a chapel at Niepokalanów and may be viewed by visitors. Parishes and religious institutions wishing to obtain a first-class relic for public veneration should apply to the Guardian of the friary at Niepokalanów. The source for this information is: http://www.pastoralcentre.pl/first-class-relics-st-maximilian-kolbe/ NuncioInter (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Although this page is semi-protected, your user rights currently allow you to edit it yourself. I notice that at least one of the claims (more than 1000) is not supported by that source. Also, per our style guide, we do not use honorifics (like Fr and St) or first names after the initial mention at the beginning of the article. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 02:55, 4 December 2013 (UTC)