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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Haploidavey (talk | contribs) at 11:19, 22 March 2017 (→Triptolemus: found something, though not much). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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DPL bot (talk) Thank you for the message. I love to be proved wrong and appreciate your correction as does Wikipedia. However, I need to learn how to do these conversation things and Wiki's various Hyper text markup language or whatever they're called here. Attempting to sign this correctly, David my talk page

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Triptolemus

Hello Davidlwinkler. I've reverted your addition to the article, in which you suggest that Porphyry could have intended Cyamites as the "god of fruits". Without a reliable, mainstream scholarly source, the statement is editorial speculation or original research. Thank you. Haploidavey (talk) 23:18, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've done the same, and for the same reasons, with your additions to Cyamites, in which you described him as central to the Eleusinian mysteries, not merely a minor god or demi-god with connections to beans. It's true that the Pythagorians and others held that beans were possibly seats for souls in transmigration, but that does not, of itself, imply connection with purported Eleusinian "rebirth" - for that, you'd definitely need a strong, mainstream, modern scholarly source. Haploidavey (talk) 23:34, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the pleasant note at my talk page. Your signature worked! The Pausanias citation is fine regarding the positioning of Cyamites' shrine (or heroon), somewhere along the road to Eleusis. The remainder of the citation refers to un-named revelations and connections within the Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries. It's all rather coy. Pausanias seems to know -- or believe that he knows, or else has been told -- more than he's saying, and stops well short of betraying the mysteries themselves. Only initiates of the mysteries can know what he's talking about; others remain in the dark, and no harm has been done by the geographer himself. I've had a thorough search for more up-to-date translations and scholarly commentaries on the passage, without success thus far. Frustrating! To summarise, I think you'd be OK restoring the Pausanias citation in full, as a quotation but should restrain any temptation to infer any further connections; we simply don't know what they were. The material on fava beans (broad beans in my dialect) could perhaps be restored, with a better source -- by this, I mean a scholarly, classics-based source (rather than horticultural) which addresses the significance of beans, preferably in connection to Cyamites, Eleusis and Orphic cults. Regards, Haploidavey (talk) 10:48, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You might try here. The citation would be Jost, Madeleine, in Cosmopoulos, Michael B., (Editor), Greek Mysteries: The Archaeology and Ritual of Ancient Greek Secret Cults, Routledge, 2002, pp 154-155. It's not much, and some of the translations seem a little creaky, but at least it's a secondary, scholarly source commentary of the Pausanias passage. Haploidavey (talk) 11:19, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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