Jump to content

Talk:Billy (Black Christmas)

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Daniel Case (talk | contribs) at 04:08, 6 August 2020 (passed GA). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Sources

Another interview to add later on.

--Paleface Jack (talk) 21:49, 31 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I found some more sources to add, though most of them are from a single website so I am gonna have to figure out how to do that properly as I had the same trouble while working on Begotten:

--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:43, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Finishing Things Up: Things to DO

As this draft gets closer to completion, there are still some tasks that need to be accomplished BEFORE its publication and eventual GA and FA status. The following is a list of said tasks that still need to be completed:

  • "Men Behind the Killer" sub-section needs to be expanded in more detail so that it is balanced with the character's development subsection.
  • The "Legacy" section also needs to be expanded in more detail, and a note added to the fact that both the film and the character's influence upon slasher films have been largely overlooked.
  • Finding the appropriate images to include in the article, that would pass under GA and FA review (They should be listed on this talk page rather than included in the article just yet).
  • Finding appropriate External Links.

--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:03, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Forgot a couple of other tasks that need to happen...

  • Expand the lead section.
  • Copy-editing.
  • If possible and necessary, we might need to explore the novelization a bit more in detail as I have heard that it has some major differences from the film.

--Paleface Jack (talk) 17:44, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Accepted

I have accepted this draft. I think it could have been accepted long ago.

Please add wikilinked mentions of this article to Black Christmas (1974 film), Black Christmas (2006 film) and Black Christmas (2019 film), and add it to the template Template:Black Christmas. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:26, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Paleface Jack (talk) 22:34, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:36, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 17:29, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(
)
  • ... that although commonly referred to as Billy, the main antagonist from the 1974 slasher film Black Christmas was never listed in the film's end credits? [1][2]
    • ALT1:... that, contrary to many slasher film antagonists, the true identity and motivations of Black Christmas's antagonist, Billy were never revealed?[3]
    • ALT2:... that Billy, from the 1974 Black Christmas, has been noted by critics and film historians as establishing many of the tropes that would later become common occurrences in the slasher film genre?[4][5]
    • ALT3:... that Billy, from the 1974 Black Christmas, has been noted by critics and film historians as being one of the earliest characters to utilyse many of the tropes and characteristics that would later become common occurrences in the slasher film genre?[6][7]

Created by Paleface Jack (talk). Self-nominated at 22:57, 19 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]

I think it's great.★Trekker (talk) 17:06, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.--Paleface Jack (talk) 23:29, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Saldy since it's been more than 7 days, it can't pas 1. New anymore. :(★Trekker (talk) 19:34, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • ★Trekker, as long as this nomination was made on time, which it was, it passes the newness criterion, no matter how long the review takes nor how many adjustments are made to the article and hooks. So you can certainly complete the review without any fears in that regard. It's the creation date (or expansion date or GA date) vs. the nomination date. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:03, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Starting review
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: --valereee (talk) 12:19, 20 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • @Paleface Jack: While ALT2 is the most interesting hook, it is not supported by the sources. None of the four sources credit this film for "establishing the slasher-film genre". I will promote something else, but please adjust this wording in the article. Thank you, Yoninah (talk) 17:23, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
it says "Billy has been credited by several critics and film historians as establishing many of the tropes that later became a staple for the slasher film genre." He did not estabish the genre itself only elements within it.---Paleface Jack (talk) 17:37, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Shaw-Williams, Hannah (September 17, 2019). "Black Christmas Original Movie Ending & Killer Identity Explained". Screen Rant. Screen Rant. Retrieved December 10, 2019.
  2. ^ Bob Clark (Director) (1974). Black Christmas (DVD). Canada: Ambassador Films.
  3. ^ Kent Byron Armstrong (January 1, 2003). Slasher Films: An International Filmography, 1960 Through 2001. McFarland & Company. p. 17. ISBN 978-0-7864-1462-8.
  4. ^ Benshoff, Harry (July 31, 2014). A Companion to the Horror Film. Wiley. p. 323. ISBN 978-1-118-88349-5.
  5. ^ Dinning, Mark (January 1, 2000). "Black Christmas Review". EmpireOnline.com. Empire. Retrieved February 21, 2020.
  6. ^ Benshoff, Harry (July 31, 2014). A Companion to the Horror Film. Wiley. p. 323. ISBN 978-1-118-88349-5.
  7. ^ Dinning, Mark (January 1, 2000). "Black Christmas Review". EmpireOnline.com. Empire. Retrieved February 21, 2020.
  8. ^ Benshoff, Harry (July 31, 2014). A Companion to the Horror Film. Wiley. p. 323. ISBN 978-1-118-88349-5.
  9. ^ Harper, Jim (2004). Legacy of Blood: A Comprehensive Guide to Slasher Movies. Critical Vision. p. 11. ISBN 978-1-900486-39-2.
  10. ^ Packer, Sharon; Pennington, Jody (July 15, 2014). A History of Evil in Popular Culture: What Hannibal Lecter, Stephen King, and Vampires Reveal About America [2 volumes]: What Hannibal Lecter, Stephen King, and Vampires Reveal about America. ABC-CLIO. p. 38. ISBN 978-0-313-39771-4.

GA Review

Passed. Daniel Case talk 04:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Billy (Black Christmas)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Daniel Case (talk · contribs) 02:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, since this has been sitting here for four and a half months for no reasons I can adequately discern, save for it not being where people expect it to be when they click on it, I'll take care of it. I will print it out, look it over, give it a light copy edit and get back in a couple of days on what I think. Daniel Case (talk) 02:38, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, it's been a week and I have done my copy edit.

This is the first time I can recall doing this in which a lot of the issues were cleared up by the copyedit. I ultimately wound up trimming about 3K or so from the article, which means there was fat in the prose (and there was ... a lot of the passive voice, a lot of unnecessary relative conjunctions, a lot more use of "the character" when "Billy" was enough, generally a style more appropriate to a class paper, or more likely how someone was expected to write their class papers, than an encyclopedia article. But as of now those are lessons to be (hopefully) learned.

There were no deficiencies in exploring the subject. The research was done. I was not left with any questions. So the article does not lack for comprehensiveness.

I am not sure, though, that all the horror-film websites cited are reliable enough, or notable enough, for us to use them as sources. But I saw no clear red flags, and I do not feel comfortable making calls on them here. So I will take it on good faith that they are.

(I would also suggest that, in the future, the time= field in {{cite AV media}} be used to indicate where on the video the material that supports the cited statement might be found. It's not enough just to cite the video. Not when it's loong).

Looking through my notes, there are a couple of things I didn't feel it was my place as GA reviewer to edit:

  • Since Kemper's mugshot is extracted from a free image, it is itself free and should be on Commons under the same PD-CAGov license as the original (I can do this if you want).
  • One of my issues when copy editing was the same one I have with a lot of other articles ... the unnecessary restatement of information. It happens here, as well. Twice we quote Robert Mann the actor who played Billy in the 2006 version describing him as "a ticking time bomb". I think that the first time, at least, we could just find some paraphrase. I also think the second and third sentences of the first paragraph of the "Characterization" section could be trimmed down a bit; as it is they restate too much.
Reworded the "time bomb" quote. As to the first paragraph in the characterization section, much of that is a critical analysis of the character, I removed some bits that were rather pointless and illegitimate.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:35, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Lastly the article needs to address the apparent overcitation. That second sentence mentioned above has four cites on Billy's motivations not being revealed in the original. It's important, but is that really such a controversial statement that it needs that much authority?

    In the legacy section, I can understand if that first statement about the character establishing the defining traits of the slasher needs multiple cites (but maybe not four?) I can't understand why the "overshadowing" needs three, though ... it sort of feels as if someone felt a deep need to impress someone by showing all the work.

    The article should just pick the sources considered most authoritative and important and cite them and them alone.

Did the same for this as well, kept the more legitimate sources.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:35, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm giving the editors/nominator the usual week to address this, either in a response here as to why it should be that way, or actual edits. Until then it's on hold. Daniel Case (talk) 06:04, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the Kemper image problem myself, and since all the other changes have been made we need not wait a week. ✓ Pass Daniel Case (talk) 04:06, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Billy_(Black_Christmas)&oldid=971436979"