User talk:JzG

Institute of Ideas deletion

Can you explain why the page for the Institute of Ideas was deleted? It was an active and influential organisation, and Claire Fox has since created the Academy of Ideas, which is essentially the same thing. Without the wiki page, people are unlikely to be able to trace the history of Claire Fox, or the activities of the organisations that she has operated. Given that she makes regular TV and radio appearances, especially on the BBC, it would seem rather important that there is a page about IoI.Vectronn (talk) 18:07, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Clarification

Sorry if my edit summery here[1] was confusing, I had made an edit that left the article saying "Andrew Wakefield visited Minneapolis, teaming up with anti-vaccine groups to raise concerns that vaccines were the cause of autism, including, disgraced former doctor Andrew Wakefield" which obviously doesn't make sense, I never meant that "disgraced former doctor" was a typo, I think disgraced former doctor is a good description of wakefield. Tornado chaser (talk) 00:58, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Sure, and I cleaned it up properly I think. No biggie. What's more important is that we now correctly establish that the antivaxers were on the ground pretty much from the outset, rather than coming in at the last minute to simply exploit long-standing concerns in the community. In fact the antivaxers were the driver behind the "concerns" of higher rates of diagnosis and they cynically exploited this community, leading to serious harm. Guy (Help!) 08:18, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Question

Is there anything I need to know, or that you can share about this journal re: credibility as a RS? ^{Atsme✍🏻📧} 10:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

@Atsme: It is a minor journal with a very low impact factor, which is high risk for academic POV-pushing by the editorial team and their cronies, but it may be legit for uncontroversial content. Red flags would be people demanding inclusion of their Great New Theory as published here, when it's been rejected by other editors. Guy (Help!) 10:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Thx - needed that validation - the article in question that was published in the journal was already questionable as it cites en.WP (circular ref.) - dog stuff. ^{Atsme✍🏻📧} 10:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Ha! Well I think we know what to do with that then :-) Guy (Help!) 10:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Aspersions

Your edit summery here[2] incorrectly accuses me of adding an antivax trope and implies that I have been doing this on other articles as well. I did not originally add the content in question, but restored it after an IP removed it. I do a lot of counter-vandalism and in my experience it is very rare for an IP to constructively blank 6 kilobytes, so I reverted but left a message telling the IP to use the talk page first rather than giving the IP a vandalism template. If an experienced user (you) wants to remove the non-specific effects section based on improper sourcing I have no objection. I accept constructive criticism and if you have a problem with my editing you can raise the issue on my talk page where I can defend my edits or admit my error, but please don't go casting aspersions in your edit summaries. Tornado chaser (talk) 20:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

You may well be blissfully unaware, but the "vaccines cause increased mortality" meme is indeed an antivax trope. Per WP:MEDRS we have to handle it with extreme care because all the publications are basically from a single group, and there are many potential sources of confounding. As it turns out all-cause mortality is lower in the vaccinated community, so that also demands especial care. Guy (Help!) 22:01, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

I am fully aware of antivaxers making bogus claims that vaccines are dangerous. At DPT vaccine, I saw an IP blank a section of sourced material without saying what was wrong with the sources, so I reverted. I had not looked at the sources in detail yet, but I believe you if you say there were problems. I am not advocating for the content you removed to be restored. My concern was only that your edit summery implies that I have been pushing an antivax POV on multiple articles, assuming bad faith not only of the edit you reverted, but implying a pattern. To be clear, I do not object to the content removal in any way, I just don't want you to cast aspersions in your edit summaries in the future. Tornado chaser (talk) 00:36, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

I'm not casting aspersions, I consider you to be naive in these matters, given your history in vaccine related articles. I am exhorting you to check more carefully, is all. Guy (Help!) 10:03, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for clarifying that you didn't mean to cast aspersions. I'm curious what about my editing history you consider naive, if you are referring to stuff from January or before I didn't understand UNDUE then, if you'r referring to something more recent I don't know what. Tornado chaser (talk) 19:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

You earned a lot of black marks before you learned UNDUE, and I still find that some of your edits are naively accepting of antivax bullshit in particular. This is not your fault: they work tirelessly to ensure that their bullshit looks sciencey, it's only sad bastards like me who follow the science nerds who watch and critique it that would necessarily know. Give Skeptical Raptor a follow on your social media of choice, that will help. Also Dorit Reiss and of course David Gorski. Guy (Help!) 19:44, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

AE appeal

I have requested a review of my topic ban at WP:AE. jps (talk) 22:59, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For consistent defense against the imaginative memes of people burdened by a Hollywood conspiracy theory understanding of science. bd2412 T 23:17, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

WP:AN#Block appeal by user:FrogCast

Hello JzG. A user in the AN thread, User:Softlavender, is now saying they would like to see a proper unblock request on the user's talk page before going further. Somehow the thread has convinced itself there is a spamming issue which must absolutely be dealt with, but that has clouded the original POV-pushing, which I think must be the reason why you lifted their talk page access in the first place. So I don't know what to advise. But this AN thread (which you started!) risks lingering forever unless someone decides what to do. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 21:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

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Comment on content, not contributors

Please remember to comment on content, not contributors, accusing someone in a good-faith content dispute of having a "commitment to protect the reputations of charlatans" is not productive and only makes it harder to achieve consensus without the content discussion devolving into an ANI case. Tornado chaser (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Stop believing antivax bullshit and I'll stop commenting on it. Guy (Help!) 23:20, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

If you looked at the diff I linked you would see that I am referring to a borderline PA/unnecessary accusation you made against Bilby, not anything you said to me. Tornado chaser (talk) 23:36, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Bilby goes to bat for every charlatan. No idea why. Now go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script. Guy (Help!) 00:20, 22 November 2018 (UTC)