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Request return of admin rights (GB fan)

Resolved

GB fan (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs ^{(blocks · rights · moves)} · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)^{(acc · ap · ev · fm · mms · npr · pm · pc · rb · te)}

I am requesting my admin rights back. I requested they be removed in June 2019. ~ GB fan 12:59, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Everything seems to be in order here, standard self-requested removal ~4 months ago, last admin actions ~4 months ago. There is a standard 24-hour hold on restoration requests to allow for commentary. — xaosflux ^Talk 13:03, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done, welcome back. –xeno^talk 13:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you ~ GB fan 13:54, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Request return of admin rights (GB fan) (discussion)

Of course, there were other, non-admin actions since then, were there not? This episode, for instance, where GB fan edited logged out in order to make a point, and was advised aganst it by both Iridescent and Bonadea. ——SerialNumber54129 13:16, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't log out to make a point. I was logged out and made an edit and then was reverted without comment. I then logged back in to ask a question if it would have been reverted without comment if I had done the edit logged in but never got an answer. ~ GB fan 13:22, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

SN or GB fan: ~~Could you point me to the ANI thread mentioned at the TH discussion?~~ Thank you, –xeno^talk 13:40, 17 October 2019 (UTC) I see it was a hypothetical thread, I misread. –xeno^talk 14:17, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know there was never any ANI thread. ~ GB fan 13:50, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed: you made this edit logged out, no problem whatsoever. But you then made [1][2] to make a point, and in the knowledge that you were logged out to do so. You were advised by Iridescent not to do so. You then filed at the Teahouse where, not only did no one agree with you, but you were informed by an independent editor that you had become a "pest". Yes, your attempts at gaslighting (by continually repeating the mantra of whether you would have been reverted, etc) have been noted, but your persistent refusal to acknowledge that you did anything wrong or that your behaviour was in any way problematic leaves much to be desired in a so-called administrator. Even one that is logged out. ——SerialNumber54129 13:41, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Xeno: If you mean this reference to ANI, I hadn't filed, I was answering GB fan's question what would you have done if I had logged into my account and made the same edit (i.e., that if he'd edit-warren at JW's talk like that logged-in, that was what would have happened), although only hypothetically. Incidentally, it indicates that although GBf is even now claiming that this never got an answer to that question...he clearly did. Gaslighting or disingenuity, the difference may not be that relevenat by now I'm afraid. ——SerialNumber54129 13:54, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I found that to be an interesting exercise in WP:BITE, and the avoidance of answering GB's actual question (if he had made that initial edit with his logged in account, would you still have misused rollback to revert it without an explanation?) while throwing around terms such as "gaslighting" and "disingenuity" also interesting. Fish+Karate 14:01, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rollback was neither used nor abused, and and I have pointed out above, I did answer his question. I find your agreeability with such behaviour being becoming an admin equally interesting. ——SerialNumber54129 14:06, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rollback, undo, semantics. Where did I say, or even imply, such behaviour was becoming of an admin? Fish+Karate 14:10, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So you don't condone logged-out edit warring? Excellent news. As I have said, the issue was not with the first logged out edit: it was the subsequent reversion against multiple advice. ——SerialNumber54129 14:25, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So where did you answer the question "would you have reverted the original edit without explanation if I had done it with my logged in account?" I have never seen an aswer to that specific question. ~ GB fan 14:12, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No, I have never gotten an answer if you would have reverted my original edit without an explanation if I had done it originally from this account rather than origanlly logged out. I didn't originally ask my question in the right way and got an answer that wasn't really about what I was really asking.I still believe the edit is helpful but I wouldn't do it again because I have gotten explanations. I was never making any point other than trying to get you to explain why you were reverting the edit. I wasn't in the right and neither were you. We were both obstinate about it. ~ GB fan 14:04, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you had admitted that at the time, GB fan, so doubtless would I! ——SerialNumber54129 14:08, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

- Regardless of the "tit-for-tat" discussion, I'd be surprised if any crats found any "weather" to be considered in the request. — Ched (talk) 14:34, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) I was about to write a similar thing. Serial Number 54129, I don't see anything here that you have brought up that would preclude a resysop. Everyone does dumb things from time to time, and while I haven't done the most thorough look, there does not appear anything that would approach anything sanctionable. At this point, frankly it looks like you had a dispute a few months ago and you're using a thread here as an excuse to throw some mud. Maxim_(talk) 14:37, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciate the aspersions Maxim, thank you. This is precisely the point at which such issues need to be discussed, and I am ambivalent as to consequence. As far as I am concerned, GB fan having now admitted that he was both obstinate and (quote) "not in the right" (i.e., wrong) is a satisfactory conclusion, as we can consider him to have adjusted his behaviour accordingly. I never considered it egregious enough to demand his head for—and indeed, who has?—but to suggest that, ergo, it should not be mentioned at all is foolishness, to say the least. ——SerialNumber54129 14:45, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If it's not egregious enough to demand his head, why pick up the stick in the first place? The purpose of a thread like this is to determine if there is something that should preclude an automatic resysop. And by admitting that you "never considered it egregious enough to demand his head", you're reinforcing my comment that it appears you are throwing mud. Maxim_(talk) 14:51, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't; others might. Perhaps you would deny the possibility of discussion. Please do not oversimplify my remarks, or otherwise misquote me, which I will assume was accidental. ——SerialNumber54129 15:02, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Request return of admin rights (general discussion regarding scope of consideration)

Maxim, I think it's a reasonable concern to raise. Undisclosed alternate accounts are not to be used in internal project space discussions. If it's an isolated incident, then it might not preclude restoration but to suggest it not be raised for consideration? Inviting comments as to the suitability of the request is the main reason for the hold period. –xeno^talk 15:19, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Xeno, to me the purpose of such a thread is to help bureaucrats determine whether there is a reason to preclude resysoping. We're not here to do RfA-lite. I don't find the thread particularly helpful, especially as the original comments suggested a much bigger issue than there really is/was. I get the angle of mentioning something just in case, but in all honesty, nearly everything past 13:16 UTC today here makes everyone look bad, myself included... Maxim_(talk) 15:25, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) From a strict reading of WP:RESYSOP, it doesn't seem to me that even if a former admin's edits (post de-sysop) would result in sanctions of some kind, that that would be relevant in restoring the admin's bit. That is to say, if an admin doesn't "resign under a cloud" but instead "resigns and later creates a cloud" that former admin would still be eligible for re-sysop (barring lengthy activity and compromised accounts, of course). Item number four of WP:RESYSOP notes the 24-hour period for checking/discussing, but my interpretation of that has been that it was for checking/discussing if a cloud existed at the time of resignation. Do other bureaucrats have the same interpretation? Useight (talk) 15:26, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So hypothetically, an administrator hands in their tools, and behaves poorly on a wide scale (but doesn’t get Arbcom or community restricted from resysop), they could successfully request restoration? [A commenter might not know the whole scale, do we want to discourage commenters?] –xeno^talk 15:45, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That was my interpretation, yes. That, for example, technically speaking, that even if the former administrator (who resigned without a cloud) went around vandalizing, 3RR, or whatever, and got blocked for 24 hours, this former administrator would still be qualified to get the tools back upon request (as long as we could confirm that the account wasn't compromised and there was no lengthy inactivity). Common sense would suggest IAR depending on the egregiousness of the former administrator's behavior, but I don't like to IAR in my bureaucrat position, and my understanding is that there isn't supposed to be a subjective line like "behaved too poorly to qualify for resysop" within the scope of the bureaucrats. I was asking if other bureaucrats interpreted the existing mandate for resysop the same - behavior post-desysop is not to be considered within the scope of "under a cloud." Useight (talk) 16:18, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In such a case, extending the hold period and seeking clarification from the committee would be prudent. –xeno^talk 16:45, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) The episode occurred after the resignation of admin flag. This means that the resignation was not in any way under a cloud, and the restoration of the flag is the only option. The crats are not elected to reject the flag restoration except for a situation when the candidate resigned under a cloud, or if the candidate lost a flag for inactivity and fails the criteria. After the flag restoration, if someone wants, they can open an ANI discussion, and, if the conclusion of the discussion is that the behavior of the administrator is unbecoming, file an ArbCom request.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:30, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is another option, which would be asking arbitration for a temporary injunction which has been done before. But I didn’t suggest at any point that restoration should not proceed. Merely that the concern itself is not outside the realm of consideration. –xeno^talk 15:52, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion about whether someone's behavior after resignation of the tools could lead to a refusal to resysop would be interesting and useful, but perhaps it should occur elsewhere? I don't think there's anyone who actually thinks it applies to GB fan. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:26, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Added section break, thank you. –xeno^talk 16:44, 17 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to do with GB fan, but I'm really dismayed at the discouragement people bringing up concerns here gets. SN brought up a concern, I assume because they wanted to make sure there weren't a dozen such concerns out there that others had been reluctant to bring up because of the probable pushback on their right to do so. If someone has a concern about the possible appropriateness of resysopping, we should be thanking them for bringing that concern up, even if ultimately we decide it's not a barrier to resysopping, not scolding them for bringing it up. --valereee (talk) 12:25, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To discourage bringing concerns forward seems dangerous, as even what may seem like a minor issue may reveal wider-reaching issues that would require attention of another body (no one is suggesting bureaucrats should act as arbitrators). –xeno^talk 13:01, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Valereee, perhaps I'm wrong on my approach to these threads. If memory serves me right, I don't really reply much to them in general, but lately I've voiced my concern that we're turning them into RfA-lite and I think the threads should be more on-focus, perhaps with respect to red-line issues barring desysop. (In fact I would err on the side of resysop if it's not clear because 'crats aren't ArbCom.) My intent was not one of discouragement, and I apologize to you and Serial Number 54129 as it seems readily apparent now that I came off as very discouraging. Maxim_(talk) 21:33, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Maxim, scolding was probably too strong a word, and I apologize, too. I appreciate your willingness to consider other opinions. --valereee (talk) 22:14, 18 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Desysop (DeltaQuad)

Please remove my sysop rights. Thanks, -- Amanda (aka DQ) 13:53, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You can desysop yourself, right? ∯WBG^converse 14:04, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Technically possible, but generally best left to others. –xeno^talk 14:11, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done, with regret. Noting that DeltaQuad has also requested removal of bur,os,cu at meta; they have a standard 24-hour hold for such requests. Thank you for your service, DQ. –xeno^talk 14:10, 20 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]