SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

Sci-Fantasy won by a landslide! Now we need to nominate some sci-fantasy books to vote on.

Please list your nominations by the title and the author (Title, Author), and link them using the "add book/author" function so we can check them out easily.

The most common definition of "sci-fantasy" seems to be fantasy with strong technological elements. I'm going to nix anything that strays too far into sci-fi territory, so speak up if you think a nomination isn't appropriate.

I liked Brad's way of handling the sci-fi theme nominations, so I'm going to steal from him. I'll need a nomination and then a second before I put it on our final poll.

Nominations end one week from today - Wednesday, April 25.

Split Infinity, Piers Anthony

Jaran by Kate Elliott

Set in the future where an alien race runs an inter-galactic empire, the only human with any power is one who led a rebellion some years ago. Instead of just executing him, they bestowed titles and responsibility on him. His dream of liberation hasn't dried up though.

One of the things he managed to do is keep a planet "primitive" - its peoples know nothing about technology or the aliens who sometimes secretly arrive. One such is his sister, who falls in with a nomadic people called the Jaran.

An amazing mix of old-world fantasy and powerful science fiction, the story is predominantly set amongst the Jaran and deals only superficially with the science fiction side (that comes more into play in the fourth book).

I'd love the chance to re-read this one! It's still one of my favourite fantasy books.

A Thousand Words for Stranger - Julie E. Czerneda

I tried to look at the shelf page for sci-fantasy for maybe a better idea, but no one likes the shelfname "sci-fantasy"!

The first book that came to my mind was Gene Wolfe's The Shadow of the Torturer. At around 300 pages its not too long, but it is part 1 of a 4 part series (since i read them in an anthology, i can't remember where the first book ended, but it has been like 9 years). Weirdly, I found Wolfe's writing very engrossing, but also really tough to read at the same time.

Kind of tricky to know what's sci-fantasy. Most SciFi is sci-fantasy to me.

This Alien Shore, by C.S. Friedman? Much of her work would qualify, I think.
A Logical Magician by Robert Weinberg?
Surviving Serendipity by Jacquelyn Sylvan is also very good.

I'll second
The Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe

Magic in the far future space opera world certainly can be considered Sci-Fantasy? Then

* The Witches of Karres by James H. Schmitz (Hub Novel #1)
* The Wizard of Karres by Mercedes Lackey, and Eric Flint and Dave Freer (Hub Novel #2)

Both have the advantage that it can be found in electronical form on Baen CD (if I remember correctly Baen CD 13), and can be found legal on-line.

I agree with the whole Blue Adept cycle, beginning with Split Infinity by Piers Anthony

Yet another good example of sci-fantasy is The Cyborg and the Sorcerers from "War Surplus" cycle by Lawrence Watt-Evans, where technological being lands on the magical planer.

I have read the Jaran series and liked it. In fact my handle, Kernos comes from the series.

I have really enjoyed Julie E. Czerneda, both Her Trade pact Universe and Species Imperative trilogies, but consider these Sci-Fi. I don't recall a fantasy element.

Pern by Anne McCaffrey has had the most debate about it being SF or F, IME, even though Anne says it's SF. To me it is high fantasy. Since it is so debatable and since Pern is such a great book, I would nominate it, though I suspect most have read it.

I too have a bit of a problem with Sci-Fantasy and usually put books in one category ot the other.

I second Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey, but I am also not sure if it is in required genre. It reads like high fantasy, and it is quite similar to post-apocalyptic themes...

If Split Infinity is to be considered as candidate, then perhaps also Doc Sidhe by Aaron Allston as well (which book, if I remember correctly, can be found in Baen Free Library). Buth have magic world and technological world existing in separate but connected dimensions...

Kernos, are you seconding my nomination for Jaran? I need a second!!

I'll second Jaran!

I'll third the Shadow of the Torturer

Third for Jaran (though it's not needed lol). I've never read it before, but I heard Kate Elliot is pretty good.

I also think most of the books in the Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold qualify as sci-fantasy. There's a medieval planet, but there's also space travel.

Vorkosigan series (starting with Shards of Honour, but the medieval planet appear only in second book in series, Barrayar) are most certainly to be categorized in "space opera" genre, I think. There is not much 'fantasy' there... So I'd say no to Vorkosigan series being Sci-Fantasy.

If we are talking about different king of Sci-Fantasy books, there is 'The Reads of Heaven' series by Melissa Scott, starting with Five-Twelfths of Heaven, where space ships are powered and are travelling between stars using alchemy. Very good book, by the way.

There are also books which use Clarke's Third Law: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.", for example in "The Four Lords of the Diamond" series by Jack L. Chalker starting with Lilith A Snake in the Grass, and similarly in "Coldfire" trilogy by Friedman. C.S. starting with Black Sun Rising, there are nanoorganism present on alien planet that reast to people's thoughts, allowing for 'acts of magic'.

Can I suggest one of my all time favourite books
Perdido Street Station by China Miéville.
It's won both Sci-Fi and Fantasy awards, so should fit nicely into this theme, and it would give me a perfect excuse to re-read this amazing book.

The Copper Crown by Patricia Kennealy-Morrison

Kelts in space! :)

It's got science fiction, fantasy, alternate history and space opera elements. All the characters are gripping in their struggles, failures, loves and hates.

I'll second:

Five Twelfths of Heaven
Perdido Street Station
Lilith: A Snake in the Grass (I love this series and would welcome the motivation to read it again!)

Jaran is also on my TBR list, but it doesn't need a second. = )

Split Infinity
also
Neverwhere, by Niel Gaiman

The Einstein Intersection by Samuel R. Delany is an excellent blend of mythology/fantasy & SF. I've read it several times & always see a bit more. It's a post apocalyptic novel, too. Fantastic, fairly short read.

A similar book is This Immortal by Roger Zelazny. It's full of classical references & has a wonderful story line.

Jakub wrote: If we are talking about different king of Sci-Fantasy books, there is 'The Reads of Heaven' series by Melissa Scott, starting with "Five-Twelfths of Heaven", where space ships are powered and are travelling between stars using alchemy. Very good book, by the way.

It is a pity that Inne pieśni by Jacek Dukaj were not translated into English; they are also blend of science-fiction and fantasy, with a bit of alternate history mixed in (see Inne pieśni (Other Songs) article on Wikipedia).

Christopher Stasheff's Warlock series would seem to be a prime example, in that it starts out sci-fi with the main character traveling in a spaceship to rediscover human-settled worlds that lost contact, but he then lands on a planet (as I recall) mostly settled by SCA enthusiasts, and it turned out that they had self-selected a population prime to develop mental powers that have now been termed magic in the feudal society that has grown there. The first one is:

The Warlock in Spite of Himself

Also, much as I love This Alien Shore, I've never really seen many fantasy elements in it. It always struck me as straight up sci-fi.

I'll second The Einstein Intersection and This Immortal. Both excellent, and I think underrated books.
While we're on the subject of Zelazny, can I throw out there,
Lord of Light by Roger Zelazny,
which I thoroughly enjoyed and seems to transcend the boundary between Sci-Fi and Fantasy.

I will second Lord of Light, a truly SFF crossover and I have not read it since it was 1st published, in a time long, long ago...

"Lord of Light" is another great choice.

Neverwhere by Niel Gaimen

Just FYI the Fantasy group is currently doing Neverwhere - I'm not sure how many of us might be in both groups. How about American Gods?

This group did Neverwhere last year, so we won't repeat it (it was a great conversation though, and brought up some things I never would have thought of on my own! The archived folder should be on the discussion page if you'd like to read it).

I'll start sorting through these today and figuring out which ones have been seconded and whatnot. Thanks for all the great suggestions so far!

I second Jim's choice of The Einstein Intersection, or third it as the case may be.

And I would like to nominate my own choice: The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov. I've heard it categorized as "magic realism," "weird," and "speculative," and all of these come close to what we're talking about. The Devil in communist, industrialized USSR. Sounds pretty sci-fantasy to me. And what a great book to read for our group.

I also nominate a completely off the wall, obscure, but interesting read: West of January by Dave Duncan.

Brad wrote: "And I would like to nominate my own choice: The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov."

I'll second that book.

YAY! I love you Libby.

Thanks - it just so happens that it's on the list from 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die. I'm in that GR Group too so it would be two birds with one stone! (and it looks like an interesting read which is a bonus)

I'll second Dave Duncan's West of January - fantastic book!

Shannon wrote: "I'll second Dave Duncan's West of January - fantastic book!"

Strings is far better. Also this is supposed to be sci-fantasy. I'm not sure I see too much that I would consider fantasy in that book. In Strings we have a Tunnel in the Sky story with psychic powers bordering on the magical to make it work.

I don't know Strings, but I will second that.

I second Perdido Street Station by China Miéville

and
Five-Twelfths of Heaven by Melissa Scott

and add
Fall of Angels by L.E. Modesitt Jr.
Which is the book of the Recluse series that brings space battles and science to the 'magic' of Recluse

Dave Duncan's Seventh Sword trilogy is one of the best I've ever read on the idea of change and advancement coming to a primitive society. I would recommend it to anybody, but the whole story takes three books to tell, so I'm not sure this is the proper venue for it.
The Reluctant Swordsman
Coming of Wisdom
Destiny of the Sword

I just want a good read. Been out of the loop for too long.

Another good set is the Well of Souls series by Jack Chalker. Midnight at the Well of Souls is the first book and it's also standalone.

Something that might work for Sci-Fantasy is "A Plague of Angels" by Sheri S. Tepper. A science fiction story using fairy-tale archetypes. It's an odd and thought-provoking tale. Here's the link: A Plague of Angels

Here's the blurb from Amazon. I like it better than Goodread's version: "Tepper ( Sideshow ) cleverly adopts elements of both fantasy and science fiction in this portrait of a world on the verge of chaos. Looking to space for a better world, most of Artemesia's inhabitants have deserted their land for the stars, leaving behind crumbling gang-infested cities, fortified suburbs protected by dwindling technology and a half-wild, half-rural land where renascent mythical beasts and fairy tale "archetypes" now live. There Abasio, a farmboy who is being pursued by vengeful gang members, meets Orphan, who is herself being pursued by the minions of Witch. Witch is convinced that in accordance with a delphic prophecy, Orphan can provide the "guidance system" for her space shuttle and thus allow her to settle the moon. Abasio, Orphan and their few allies are called to fulfill their destiny and defend the battered Earth from Witch's mad scheme for world domination. If the fantasy and SF elements don't always merge seamlessly, the setting is well-realized and Witch's psychosis is lurid and frightening. Tepper's prose is colorful and, while occasionally strident, tempered with wry wit and astute observations about human nature."

I also second, third, whatever Jaran The First Novel of the Jaran and American Gods. Both are wonderful books!

Dana wrote: "Christopher Stasheff's Warlock series would seem to be a prime example, in that it starts out sci-fi with the main character traveling in a spaceship to rediscover human-settled worlds that lost co..."

I'll second The Warlock in Spite of Himself. It's been many years since I've read it but I'd like to read it again. Plus, it does fit the theme.

Amy wrote: "I'll second The Warlock in Spite of Himself. It's been many years since I've read it but I'd like to read it again. Plus, it does fit the theme."

Thanks, Amy! I was beginning to wonder if anybody else'd ever heard of it.

I really do not think the Dave Duncan series can be considered at all to be anything other than fantasy. Its your typical guy comes from another world -- ours, and becomes chief swordsman for goddess. Now maybe its been a few years for me but I thought it was all fantasy.

I think Warlock is a good one and I will second Dragonflight by McCaffrey and the Piers Anthony novel as well

Here is my nominees:

The Practice Effect by David Brin

(a scientist is transported to a medieval world where science does not seem to work at all and gradually uses technology to overcome the rulers. Not much dragon stuff but great read.

A Scholar of Magics by Carol Stevermer

This is a wonderful novel set in a victorian world of magic and technology. Although the second book, it stands on its own and is unnecessary to read the first.

The Golden Compass by Phillip Pullman Not your everyday fantasy and not really science fiction this "child's tale is one compelling read.

The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick. In this dark novel, a changling grows up in a harsh fantasy factory until she befriends a dragon made out of iron. The world is incredible the story not so much but its really fits this genre. Many in the field think its a classic. Its a really good book to talk about.

Lyrec by Gregory Frost. Just a light easy going science fiction fantasy cross as an interdimensional space traveller who is tracking an evil doer travels to a medieval land with his trusty aide. He bcomes a swordsman, his aide becomes a talking cat and the evil doer -- he becomes a god. This is a real fun read. But published in 1984 may be hard to come by.

Helm by Stephen Gould - boy grows up in feudal society but then dons Helm which gifts him with fantastical knowledge.

Heroes Die by Matthew Stover. Gamers from an advanced technological society travel to a fantasy game to fight real wars and battles. This is a super read.

A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs. Set on Mars this first book that starts the John Carter series is a classic.

Jeffrey wrote: "I really do not think the Dave Duncan series can be considered at all to be anything other than fantasy. Its your typical guy comes from another world -- ours, and becomes chief swordsman for godd..."

SPOILERS





He was chosen to be the best swordsman in the world in order to enable the inclusion of new technologies and scientific methods developed in secret by a despised group of outcasts. There were real gods and goddesses but their input was small, basically setting up the story at the beginning and a few transitions. There was no magic as such, just swords and primitive customs.

Alrighty, here are the nominated books that have not been seconded yet. Take a look at them - if you think that any of these are appropriate for the Sci-Fantasy theme and would make a good discussion book, feel free to say so. If not, we've got a good list to vote from already, so don't feel like you need to second something just for the sake of seconding them!

A Thousand Words for Stranger by Julie E. Czerneda
This Alien Shore by C.S. Friedman
A Logical Magician by Robert Weinberg
Surviving Serendipity by Jacquelyn Sylvan
The Witches of Karres by James H. Schmitz
The Wizard of Karres by Mercedes Lackey, and Eric Flint and Dave Freer
The Cyborg and the Sorcerers by Lawrence Watt-Evans
Doc Sidhe by Aaron Allston
Perdido Street Station by China Miéville
The Copper Crown by Patricia Kennealy-Morrison
Fall of Angels by L.E. Modesitt Jr.
Midnight at the Well of Souls by Jack Chalker
A Plague of Angels by Sheri S. Tepper
The Practice Effect by David Brin
A Scholar of Magics by Carol Stevermer
The Golden Compass by Phillip Pullman
The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick
Lyrec by Gregory Frost
Helm by Stephen Gould
Heroes Die by Matthew Stover
A Princess of Mars by Edgar Rice Burroughs

Brooke wrote: "Heroes Die by Matthew Stover"

I'll second Heroes Die

I'll second the Iron Dragon's Daughter, although I am not too sure how easy it is to find.