SciFi and Fantasy Book Club discussion

The votes are in and our February fantasy theme is dark fantasy. Nominations will run until Tuesday and the poll for the top 5 will go up on Wednesday. Nominate your favorite dark fantasy today. All nominations should be accompanied by a brief description of the book as well as why you think we should read it. One nomination and one "second" per person. The five most seconded nominations will go into the poll.

Campaigning for your favorites is highly encouraged. If you think a book does not fall into the dark fantasy category, please also say that now accompanied by your reasons.

Let the nominations begin!

I'll nominate The Drowning City

GR blurb: " Symir-- the Drowning City. home to exiles and expatriates, pirates and smugglers. And violent revolutionaries who will stop at nothing to overthrow the corrupt Imperial government.

For Isyllt Iskaldur, necromancer and spy, the brewing revolution is a chance to prove herself to her crown. All she has to do is find and finance the revolutionaries, and help topple the palaces of Symir. But she is torn between her new friends and her duties, and the longer she stays in this monsoon-drenched city, the more intrigue she uncovers -- even the dead are plotting.

As the waters rise and the dams crack, Isyllt must choose between her mission and the city she came to save."

it's come highly recommended to me by a couple of very disparate sources, and there's plenty of both love it and hate it reviews, which should lead to an interesting discussion. assassins & intrigue FTW!

Best Served Cold

Denae wrote: "The votes are in and our February fantasy theme is dark fantasy. Nominations will run until Tuesday and the poll for the top 5 will go up on Wednesday. Nominate your favorite dark fantasy today. Al..."

Any chance of a brief description of what is considered Dark Fantasy, before I make a fool of myself by suggesting something wholey inappropriate. :)
Thanks.

Richard wrote: "Denae wrote: "The votes are in and our February fantasy theme is dark fantasy. Nominations will run until Tuesday and the poll for the top 5 will go up on Wednesday. Nominate your favorite dark fan..."

I did some checking of Goodreads genres and found that there is a Dark Fantasy genre. Here's the definition listed there:

At its most basic, dark fantasy is a term used to describe a fantasy story with a pronounced horror element. A stricter definition is difficult to pin down, as authors, publishers, and readers have used "dark fantasy" in various contexts throughout the years.

Dark fantasy is sometimes used to describe stories told from a monster's point of view, or that present a more sympathetic view of supernatural beings typically associated with horror. There is significant overlap between this type of dark fantasy and urban fantasy.

Dark fantasy is occasionally used as a synonym for supernatural horror, to distinguish horror stories that contain elements of the supernatural from those that do not. But in general, the traditional horror model tends to focus more on the victims and survivors rather than the supernatural beings themselves.

Some authors and critics also use the term in a more fantasy-based context. In this sense, dark fantasy is sometimes applied to sword & sorcery and high fantasy that features anti-heroic or morally ambiguous protagonists.

Fantasy works by writers typically associated with the horror genre are sometimes described as "dark fantasy." Conversely, the term is also used to describe "darker" works by authors best-known for other styles of fantasy.(less)

Richard wrote: "Denae wrote: "The votes are in and our February fantasy theme is dark fantasy. Nominations will run until Tuesday and the poll for the top 5 will go up on Wednesday. Nominate your favorite dark fan..."

Wikipedia also has a decent article.

For a nomination: Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop

I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons

Sorry everyone for my badness (especially you Denae. Don't leave me in the gulag for too long, okay?).

So the Terror is a about some time spent by a lovely groupf gentlemen frozen in the Great White North. Their ships are stuck in the ice because the boys were looking for the Northwest Passage, enter the Terror. Guys start being torn apart on watch, scurvy and other diseases run rampant, a beautiful and mysterious Inuit woman brings some magic and other things to the mix.

I love it. I was blown away by it, but then I tend to like books that switch gears midstream and are rich in detail and mood. This is certainly that. And I would definitely love a chance to reread it, hence my nomination.

Denae wrote: "Richard wrote: "Denae wrote: "The votes are in and our February fantasy theme is dark fantasy. Nominations will run until Tuesday and the poll for the top 5 will go up on Wednesday. Nominate your f..."

Thanks for the definitions, I've had a read of the Wiki article and based on that I'd like to nominate Weaveworld by Clive Barker.
This was recommended to me by Janny Wurts quite a while ago and I'd love an excuse to finally read my tattered old copy.

If its not been read, I would like to nominate Way of the Shadows by Brent Weeks.

From the Goodreads description:
For Durzo Blint, assassination is an art-and he is the city's most accomplished artist.

For Azoth, survival is precarious. Something you never take for granted. As a guild rat, he's grown up in the slums, and learned to judge people quickly - and to take risks. Risks like apprenticing himself to Durzo Blint.

But to be accepted, Azoth must turn his back on his old life and embrace a new identity and name. As Kylar Stern, he must learn to navigate the assassins' world of dangerous politics and strange magics - and cultivate a flair for death.

I would like to nominate Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence

"Prince of Thorns is about a charming, dangerous, and amoral boy growing into a charming, dangerous, and amoral young man. On the journey he cuts down pretty much everything and everyone who gets in his way, and he's rather creative when it comes to the business of killing.

Where Prince of Thorns differs from a lot of fantasy books is that the story is the main character, Jorg. It's as much about who he is and why he is as it is about what he does. There's no evil overlord threating the goodly lands of Generica. There are no dragons, no fireworky mages spewing out magic like they just ate a bad spell. Our hero is as nasty as many a villain and he makes no apologies for it. However, if you read between the lines he delivers, you discover a new perspective on him that whilst it doesn't excuse his crimes, does go some way to explaining them."

If anyone wants to nominate a Mark Chadbourn novel I'll second it.

Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some point.

Greyweather wrote: "I would like to nominate Prince of Thorns by Mark Lawrence

"Prince of Thorns is about a charming, dangerous, and amoral boy growing into a charming, dangerous, and..."

I'll second Prince of Thorns!

Ala wrote: "Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some point."

I'll second this as well, even if Brad doesn't know how to follow directions. *points to first post*

Sue wrote: "For a nomination: Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop"

I second this!

I'll second Jenny's seconding of Prince of Thorns.

I'd like to nominate Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman I have had it for ages and love a group read to discuss it.


The Coldfire trilogy tells a story of discovery and battle against evil on a planet where a force of nature exists that is capable of reshaping the world in response to psychic stimulus. This terrifying force, much like magic, has the power to prey upon the human mind, drawing forth a person's worst nightmare images or most treasured dreams and indiscriminately giving them life. This is the story of two men: one, a warrior priest ready to sacrifice anything and everything for the cause of humanity's progress; the other, a sorcerer who has survived for countless centuries by a total submission to evil. They are absolute enemies who must unite to conquer an evil greater than anything their world has ever known.

Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

This looks excellent and its $1.99 on Kindle now.

Ala wrote: "Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some point."

I would like to support this nomination as well as his other dark chunkster

Zulfiya wrote: "Ala wrote: "Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some point."

I would like to support..."


Are you nominating the second book as well as seconding Brad's nomination?

Thinking of the subject, I recently read The Terror, and though I liked it a lot, it didn't seem to fit what I think of as "dark fantasy". Dark, certainly. But aside from the horror element, it felt more like historical fiction.

Denae wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Ala wrote: "Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some point."

I would..."


That's correct, Denae. I am seconding Brad's choice (the Terror by Simmons), and I would like to nominate his other book, namely Carrion Comfort. Is it ok if Isecond one book and nominate the other? I know it does not make much sense - as far as I know, members usually nominate only one book, but I love Dan Simmons, and those two fit perfectly into the definition of dark fantasy.

Chris wrote: "Thinking of the subject, I recently read The Terror, and though I liked it a lot, it didn't seem to fit what I think of as "dark fantasy". Dark, certainly. But aside from the horror element, it fel..."

Today genres tend to lose their definite shapes. Personally, I find that eclectic touch quite stimulating and beckoning. I call it popular post-modernism;-) Sorry for an off-topic.

It's a great book and would be a cool group read. I don't wish to have it bumped, I just feel like the theme should be looked at, to see that it was a proper fit.

I read it recently enough that I could still discuss, so definitely not opposed to in on general principle or anything.

Zulfiya wrote: "Denae wrote: "Zulfiya wrote: "Ala wrote: "Brad wrote: "I'll nominate The Terror, by Dan Simmons"

Seconded.

I've been meaning to actually get back to this book at some po..."

That's perfectly fine, Zulfiya. I just wanted to be sure I was on the same page as you.

Chris wrote: "Thinking of the subject, I recently read The Terror, and though I liked it a lot, it didn't seem to fit what I think of as "dark fantasy". Dark, certainly. But aside from the horror element, it fel..."

From what I can tell, dark fantasy is another wide-ranging category into which many seemingly-unconnected books fall. In this case, it was British Fantasy Award nominee, so I would say it probably falls into that category that is more horror with a fantasy theme than the other way around.

Hmmm. I didn't realize it had been nominated for that award. Having read it, my first question would be "where's the fantasy" in it. But like I said, good book. I'm just trying to help the process...

Oh, we might keep in mind that during all of the rage of "it's not fantasy!" in the The Lions of al-Rassan discussion, I supported the "pro" fantasy camp. If that helps with perspective. Hehe....

Chris wrote: "Hmmm. I didn't realize it had been nominated for that award. Having read it, my first question would be "where's the fantasy" in it. But like I said, good book. I'm just trying to help the process...."

Lol, I know nothing about dark fantasy. It was on the poll because Ala implied I needed seven options and I was banking on one of the others to win.

tl;dr It's Ala's fault

What's this? A bus?


*gets thrown under*

Such exaggeration!




itwasaminivan

Would like to Nominate:
Wolf Hunt by Jeff Strand

I'll second The Terror, and say thanks for the heads up on the sale price at Amazon. It's the kind of book both my wife and I will read, so even if it doesn't make it for the nomination, we'll have our own group read going on.

I'll second Carrion Comfort :)

Lee wrote: "I'd like to nominate Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman I have had it for ages and love a group read to discuss it.


The Coldfire trilogy tells a story of discovery an..."

Wow this is the third group that it has been nominated right now before there was even a poll for a group read. I've heard it could be considered both a science fiction and fantasy.

Sue wrote: "For a nomination: Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop"

Seconded! Stephen whet my appetite or this one.

I will also second The Terror; book kicked my derrier beaucoup.

I'll second Way of Shadows by Brent Weeks, that's web on my to-read list for quite a while. I'd rather go anti-hero than scary.

Cathy wrote: "I'll second Way of Shadows by Brent Weeks, that's web on my to-read list for quite a while. I'd rather go anti-hero than scary."

Thanks for the second!

Kevin wrote: "Lee wrote: "I'd like to nominate Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman

Wow this is the third group that it has been nominated right now before there was even a poll for a group read. I've heard it could be considered both a science fiction and fantasy.


I think it fits with this group, I think, I am new to this group and the Dark Fantasy is a bit of a subjective genre.

Of course I am still going to need a second hint hint

Lee wrote: "Kevin wrote: "Lee wrote: "I'd like to nominate Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman..."

It fits. I'll second it.

Coldfire trilogy is an excellent dark fantasy story, one of those that still makes me ponder...

Wonderful imagery, the representation of the Fae and worldly creatures; great dark protagonist; just the right mix of disgust and horror.

(But I gotta say, The Terror sounds pretty fun.)

=)

I think I'll just nth The Terror ;D

I will second Daughter of the Blood by Anne Bishop!

I'll also second The Terror.

Matic wrote: "Isn't The Terror a horror book? I mean it's about as horror as horror gets? Unless you want to call all horror dark fantasy and be done with it...

It is true that the British Fantasy society gav..."

The Terror is not exactly plain fantasy - it is true Then could you explain the difference between regular fantasy and dark fantasy. I think it is the case where the boundaries merge and blur, and well, Simmons is actually an excellent writer, and combines the elements of several genres in his books. So I wholeheartedly second Terror.

I have to agree with Matic. Either Daughter of the Blood or Prince of Thorns would definitely qualify as dark fantasy.

I didn't find any fantasy elements in The Terror, so I would hesitate to call it dark fantasy. It's definitely a fine work of horror, though.

One of these days, I need to start a thread to see what how the readers are defining dark fantasy. Either that or stalk a discussion already in progress somewhere. It's a real fine line sometimes. ;-)

We've read some "horror" books as fantasy in the past and justified them as "dark fantasy," much the way we have justified comic books as Science Fiction because they happen to contain Sci-Fi elements. And since The Terror most definitely fits the "horror-based" Dark Fantasy bill, and is thus Dark Fantasy in some sense, it fits our group's precedents.

It is nice to see that people are very partial about their reading choices, and it is only a nomination stage. The Terror might be beyond the classical definition of the dark fantasy, but hey, his prose is excellent, and all his books I have read so far are compelling reads. Never formulaic, never predictable, and a little bit of Inuit mythology. Granted, not traditional one, but still a figment of mythological imagination. Anyway, let the readers decide. It will be a win-win situation for me - if the Terror wins, then I will finally squeeze it into my huge TBR list, if no, then, I will have a chance to change my attitude to modern fantasy. I am an active Sci-fi reader, and I do love it, but I do struggle with fantasy:-) Sorry for an off-topic post.

Matic wrote: "I'll let wikipedia explain it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fan...

Since this is the SciFi and FANTASY group I would think the fantasy-based definition would be most appropriate & The Ter..."

Either variation on the "dark fantasy" label is acceptable. Had the intention been to make it very limited, that would have been stated from the beginning. I agree that The Terror might not be the most orthodox of choices, but so far it seems popular. I apologize for not being able to look back to see your nomination since I am on my phone, but don't give up on campaigning for it as an alternative. Remember, the top five from this thread go on the poll!

Campaign? Sure....

I have been racking my brain to come up with a good nomination, one that actually has fantasy elements.

I already gave my second to Prince of Thorns and I won't be nominating as this is the horse I'm choosing to back on this race.

More seconds would be highly encouraged for Prince of Thorns, as we need some to get it on the poll. We're not voting yet, just trying to get to the final poll.

It would be really cool if this could make it to the voting round.

I mean, look at this awesome cover:

If you think that's something, check this bad boy out:

Lee wrote: "I'd like to nominate Black Sun Rising by C.S. Friedman I have had it for ages and love a group read to discuss it.


The Coldfire trilogy tells a story of discovery an..."

Second the nomination of Black Sun Rising