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A severe storm system brings tornado watches and warnings throughout the U.S. states of Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, and Missouri. A "large and dangerous" tornado is confirmed near Gore, Oklahoma. Several other tornadoes are seen by storm chasers. (4029 News)
Ukraine bans Russian men aged between 16 and 60 from entering the country following the imposition of martial law. President Petro Poroshenko says the ban is to prevent the formation of "private armies" in Ukraine. Russia says it does not plan to retaliate. (BBC)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support though the article lacks a death section. I also have a feeling some are going to call for a blurb on this, which I'm indifferent on it at the moment. Bush Sr. was rather influential in US politics. --Masem (t) 05:02, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The longevity section has been expanded to include his death. I'm trying to compile information on his recent illnesses to help flesh it out further. SounderBruce05:04, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yup, just saw this. The section above where it includes Barbara's death has some, but not needed for quality purposes right now. --Masem (t) 05:07, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb – Highly notable figure in both American and world politics. Presided over the United States during events such as the Persian Gulf War and the fall of the Soviet Union, and arguably notable by virtue of the extreme stature of his position. Master of Time(talk)06:14, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb once citation needed tags resolved. I tagged uncited stuff and fixed one tag myself, but don't have the time to work on the rest. Absolutely deserves a blurb, and not just ex officio. Storied career before the presidency, and as a president oversaw key events like the end of the Cold War and Desert Storm. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions06:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb A blurb is not warranted for someone simply because they were the head of state of a country. This is an example of where the recent deaths section is useful. Chrisclear (talk) 07:30, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support blurb Hesitant not to support the former head of state of the world’s #1 superpower but he was a one-term president and IMO wasn’t nearly influential as his predecessor Reagan, so I’m fine either way. EternalNomad (talk) 07:46, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. He was a president of the US for chrissakes. NixinovaTC£
Oppose blurb - the support blurb camp seems to be based on either "He was US president" (so what?) and that some big world wide events took place during his presidency, though I don't recall that he was instrumental in bringing about the changes. I would consider him more of a John Major than Margaret Thatcher, though I would have opposed her blurb as well. O Still SmallVoice of Clam (formerly Optimist on the run) 08:27, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Not just because he was a president, but because he was a high-profile one, very active in international politics, only the second of a father-son presidential pair, etc. - SchroCat (talk) 09:23, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb despite overwhelming consensus to the contrary. Bush was an effective, uncontroversial one-term president. Not really transformative in any way. This is what RD is for. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:55, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support - Bush Sr. won't be remembered as the most significant president of his era (he won't be the most significant president named Bush, most likely), but his stature and impact means that, in my eyes, he just about clears the bar for blurb. Article is in good shape, good work. Stormy clouds (talk) 12:48, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Post Posting Support for blurb US centristm is not always avoidable. When Mr. Bush entered office the US was one of two super-powers. When he left office, there was just one. His policies, especially in the Middle East, have hugely influenced the shape of the modern world. [Memory eternal]. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:21, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:2018 Anchorage earthquake (talk·history·tag) Blurb: A magnitude 7.0 earthquake hits Alaska, with the epicenter in Anchorage. Severe damage is reported. (Post) Alternative blurb: Severe damage was reported after a major earthquake hit Anchorage, Alaska. News source(s):"Largest Alaskan city rocked by big quake". 2018-11-30. Retrieved 2018-11-30. Credits:
Self-explanatory wait damage has been reported, but we need it to be quantified before it can be compared with recent/historical events and thus its suitability for ITN. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:49, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait based on photos I've seen on Twitter I expect this will be posted, but the article quality (and indeed the primary source reporting) isn't there yet. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:52, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I improved the article quite a bit, and I believe that this is quite a major earthquake, damage wise. Even if there are no casualties, repairing the damage will cost in the millions. Alex of Canada (talk) 22:46, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on significance. No fatalities or serious injuries reported, and a handful of highways have some damage, but beyond that it is an incredibly minor event (thankfully). SounderBruce04:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support as nom The impact of a 7.0 earthquake is never "incredibly minor" or "minimal", there were no fatalities because the buildings were designed to withstand it, but the buildings themselves have been damaged. The infrastructure damage is serious. If you are opposing, please explain why you think these consequences are not "significant".Seraphim System(talk)18:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Seraphim System: - firstly, your support is implicit as nominator, so you should change your comment to differentiate it from a !vote. As to why the lack of casualties renders this minimal in relation to ITN, it is simple - no one died, the damage caused was far smaller than earthquakes of comparable scale. The buildings still stand because of solid engineering and architecture - that's great, fair play to them. It also dampens the impact of the incident greatly. "Something potentially bad happened, but it had a negligible impact because people had mitigated against it" is not a significant story, no matter what way you look at it, just as "man plots mass murder, police arrest man before anything happens" wouldn't make it to ITN. Some highways are damaged, and that is significant for the people of Anchorage. Quite simply, with small financial damage and no bodies, this is not a story with the impact needed for ITN. BY my count, the most recent earthquakes posted had 77, 134, and 34 deaths. This has none. Hence, it is not as important a story, and doesn't need a blurb, at least in my view. Stormy clouds (talk) 18:35, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, sorry, I left my crystal ball at home today. The infrastructure damage is significant. The last I heard from National Geographic is the USGS has predicted a 35% chance of damages between 100million and 1 billion. The aftershocks are still ongoing.Seraphim System(talk)19:01, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with Stormy. This story's appearance on Major Eng.-lang news sites yesterday (Nov. 30) was brief mainly due to the absence of fatalities, which in major earthquakes can number in the hundreds. Today it's no longer in the news internationally. Sca (talk) 23:31, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Today it's no longer in the news internationally. So? It's still being covered in the national press in the United States. You know what isn't? The World Chess Championships. So I guess ongoing coverage in the international press is not a particularly reliable indicator of whether or not an event is significant.Seraphim System(talk)01:22, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The impact has turned out to be (thankfully) limited, with low casualties and no widespread destruction. As natural disasters go, this has had little effect. Local transport difficulties do not justify a blurb. Modest Geniustalk17:40, 2 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Vietjet Air flight VJ 356 crashed upon landing at Buon Ma Thuot International Airport while carrying 207 passenger and crew. Six people were injured but all survived. (VnExpress)
The German chemical and pharmaceutical company Bayer is to cut 12,000 jobs by the end of 2021 as part of an overhaul following its acquisition of Monsanto earlier in 2018. (CNN)
After Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Wednesday the meeting between U.S. President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin during the summit is still on, while flying to Argentina, President Trump tweets that, after conferring with his top National Security advisers, he decided to cancel the meeting, adding that it was not a good time since Russia has not returned the ships and sailors to Ukraine. Less than an hour earlier, Trump said that he would "probably" meet Putin and that he believed it was "a good time to have the meeting." (USA Today)(Reuters)(USA Today²)
German police raid Deutsche Bank's offices in Frankfurt in connection with money laundering allegations that two staff members helped clients set up off-shore businesses as tax havens. Police officers, prosecutors and tax inspectors search six of the bank's offices and seize numerous written and electronic business documents. Deutsche Bank says the investigation stems from the 2016 Panama Papers leak. (CNBC)
Voters in Georgia elect Salome Zurabishvili as president. She will be the first woman elected to hold the position when she assumes office on 16 December 2018. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Consensus is clearly against an ongoing entry. If something significant happens at the summit that can be nominated separately without prejudice. Thryduulf (talk) 21:10, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose presently. Only the G7 is in ITNR and we post that at its conclusion. If some major agreement is reached during G20, we can post that. --Masem (t) 21:43, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it's time to change the policy then. Not only did we apparently post the election of the president of Ireland (a ceremonial post), which was a far less important event than this meeting, but even more importantly it's self-evident that G20 and its meeting are far more important than the summits of G7. Openlydialectic (talk) 10:46, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Elections for head of state are ITNR, and efforts to change that haven't really gone anywhere. This meeting is not ITNR, if you want to add it, you are welcome to attempt to do so. 331dot (talk) 10:56, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We had G20 before - but basically hardly anything of import happens. Should a significant resolution like the Paris climate change agreement be announced and signed, then a statement on its closure about it can be nominated. --Masem (t) 15:32, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
>"Why" Look at the countries presiding in G7 and compare them to countries presiding in G20. Hint: even China isn't in G7, let alone India, Russia or other big players. Such international juggernauts as Canada or Italy are, though. Also, compare the amount of attention even in the regular MSM, let alone specialized journals to summits of G7 and G20. >"according to who" To everyone who's follow the international affairs. >"Is something substantive expected to come out of it?" Possibly a (long term?) truce in the trade and cold wars with China. Openlydialectic (talk) 11:24, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Possibly" is not "expected". If something substantive does come out of it, that can be nominated. Otherwise this is just world leaders gathering to chat. Russia was in the G7(then 8) but was kicked out. 331dot (talk) 11:31, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
>"Possibly" is not "expected". And this is exactly why I didn't cite expectations in my argument for inclusion in the ITN. I only mentioned them because you asked me directly in the comment. >"Russia was in the G7(then 8) but was kicked out" And? The argument was that we post meetings of G7 but not meetings of G20, which is strange because G20 is far more important by every conceivable measure I can come up with. Openlydialectic (talk) 11:38, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're probably right in theory, Openlydialectic, tho it doesn't follow that the G20 should be ITNR rather than that the G7 (and perhaps also APEC and World Fairs) should be removed from ITNR. There was a clear consensus for removing G20 just a year ago, so that probably won't change, but nobody then discussed either G7 or APEC or World Fairs, so you might propose removing any of those (and in the case of G7 you may well have an especially strong case because the 2011 discussion cited for its inclusion was for G8, not G7, tho I can't be sure how relevant that is). However the proper place for that discussion is the ITNR Talk page, not here. Tlhslobus (talk) 12:33, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Trump/Putin, Trump/Xi, May and whoever from the EU was invited, Macron and MBS ... this isn't your ordinary G20. As we know "Not being ITNR does not prevent this from being nominated at ITNC." Article is not comprehensive enough for main page. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:35, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This is an Ongoing nomination, meaning that there is expected to be incremental updates to the article. That doesn't seem likely in this case; we usually don't post meetings like this until they conclude or some sort of substantial development/agreement comes out of them- which would be a regular ITN nomination. 331dot (talk) 11:39, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Either Wait, or better still Close, leaving anyone sufficiently interested free to decide whether or not to Reopen (as a brand new nom) when we know what the results are (and thus what our blurb should be). These summits have always only been posted at the end. So having it open now is not just premature, it reduces its chances of success by prematurely piling up Oppose votes which are still liable to get counted by the assessing admin and others, as well as tending to deter people from working to improve the article by implying their efforts will be largely wasted. Tlhslobus (talk) 12:11, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose ongoing as there are no ongoing substantial updates to the article, let alone events significant enough for ITN. Wait before considering a blurb, as that entirely depends what, if anything, is decided at the meeting. If there is a major international agreement with significant effects, maybe it would be worth posting. If the only result is the usual bland communique, it won't. Modest Geniustalk14:39, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd argue that the signing of the USMCA (NAFTA 2.0) was significant, but that's only signatures, not ratification and not ITN worthy. --Masem (t) 20:43, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this apparently isn't ITNR, and I don't see the point of posting this before the summit happens. If anything important happens we can re-consider this on Sunday with a different blurb. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:47, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Oppose per notabilityThe presidency is a ceremonial post in that country. Georgia is a small country of just 3.5 million people. It's also a post-soviet country so women rights there are not as bad as in most other third world countries, so the election of a woman is not that surprising. The blurb is misleading, other women held the title of interim president (back when it was not a ceremonial post btw) on two occasions. Oh, and speaking of surprising, her victory was predicted from the start since, despite technically running independent, she had full support of the Georgia's rulling party, which in turn is both popular in Georgia and had all the means of the "administrative resource" to ensure her victory. tl;dr I don't see anything ITN-worthy hereOpenlydialectic (talk) 16:05, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
While there was some discussion about changing it, this is still ITNR as far as I am aware, and can be posted once sufficiently updated. 331dot (talk) 16:06, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As stated above, the President of Georgia is ceremonial, and several attempts to fix this obvious oversight at ITN/R have gone nowhere. Live with it, or help fix it next time. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:50, 30 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support The article is a bit light on prose, but the updated information is in there in prose, so I guess this would be alright. Not great, but I won't hold it up. --Jayron3218:50, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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A series of U.S. airstrikes kills at least 30 Afghan civilians, including 16 children, in Garmsir District, Helmand Province. Additional civilians were left injured or buried in the rubble. The target of the strikes was a suspected Taliban compound. The United States' strategy aims to push the Taliban into talks. (Reuters)
At least 10 people are killed and 19 are wounded in an attack on a compound of the G4S security contracting company in the Afghan capital Kabul. The Taliban's strategy seeks to strengthen its position before any formal negotiations. (Al Jazeera)
Disasters and accidents
A chain reaction of exploding trucks triggered by a blast during the delivery of acetylene gas at a chemical plant in Zhangjiakou, China, kills 23 people and injures at least 22 others. (Reuters)
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Oppose due to timing. This is not the announcement, start, or completion of the corridor. This is a ceremonial "ground-breaking." ghost12:57, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per ghost. This is still under construction. According to the article, this event is the second foundation stone being laid! I'm not convinced this is significant enough anyway - it's far from the Berlin Wall coming down. Modest Geniustalk13:08, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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(Removed) Remove ongoing: 2018 Sri Lankan constitutional crisis
Nominator's comments: A story which was barely in the news is no longer in the news, article isn't getting may updates beyond fixing vandals. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:15, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Proposed to remove from ongoing section. The major fires are shown as 100% contained. The three remaining fires listed are comparatively very small and look to be in a rural location. I haven't seen any new stories on this for a little while - Dumelow (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support While there will remain cleanup and aftermath issues, as well as the criticism being tossed at Trump for his claims about why the fires happen, the main story is pretty much over. --Masem (t) 17:31, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support removal In the past 4-5 days, I see very little in the way of substantive edits. A few incremental changes to casualties and damage figures as new numbers become more finalized, but I don't see a lot of actual major updates to the story. This seems to have also dropped out of the news cycle in major sources. Given that it isn't being substantively updated, and it isn't a major news story anymore, I'd support its removal. --Jayron3217:35, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose "claims"; "His work, which he announced earlier this week, has not been verified."; "Prof He's university - the Southern University of Science and Technology in Shenzhen - said it was unaware of the research project and would launch an investigation." So, we're not actually even sure if this is a true story or not. Oppose, at least until such time as it's actually confirmed. 88.215.17.228 (talk) 11:45, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support The blurb should be rephrased to critically emphasise the unconfirmed and unreviewed nature of the claim. But otherwise it's good to go, because if it's true (and it increasingly sounds to be true), this is a huge (and extremely dangerous) step not just for our society, but for humanity and it's future in general Openlydialectic (talk) 12:03, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Huge news if true, both for science and for ethics, but even the researcher's own university doesn't seem to know what has happened. If/when convincing evidence is published to verify these results (preferably in a peer-reviewed journal) then we should post. At present they're eye-catching but unverifiable claims. Modest Geniustalk13:09, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This will be investigated [2], and we can post in the unlikely event that this is true. We generally don't post fringe lies on ITN. I don't care who the guy is, because even Michael Atiyah himself has become an unreliable figure in mathematics. wumbolo^^^14:17, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support - as OA => wait for verication seems best of course; however, blurb notes that the news is a "claim" - and - there seems to be a considerable amount of worthy international press coverage (clearly "In The News" so-to-speak) => Google Search for "Lulu and Nana" gives 27.2k results at the moment (10am/et/usa, 28 November 2018) (perhaps compare similar search results - and the significant upward trend in the related graph - with the "Denny (hybrid hominin)" news article not long ago?) - in any case - hope this helps in some way - Enjoy! :) Drbogdan (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Clearly not at a point where we'd post for the scientific merit (no peer-review article yet and no one else has validated the claims), and the only reason this is in the news is bringing to light the controversy on genetically modifying humans which has significant ethical implications, which in the larger scheme of things, isn't much ITN right now either, at least until the scientific claim is validated. --Masem (t) 15:20, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As presented the blurb suggests this is about the claimed genetic modification. That 100% requires a peer-review source, and likely one that meets MEDRS to be policy-compliant. --Masem (t) 16:06, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support it's being reported by WP:RS, article is in good shape, and it's a significant event. No one proposed waiting for independent verification of a NASA lander on mars. Come on. --LaserLegs (talk) 21:01, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There's a difference between a documentable event (unless you want to take the stance NASA faked the landing), and undocumented and yet proven claim that this guy successfully genetically modified embryos. --Masem (t) 22:20, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Definitely notable enough if it has occurred, but I feel we need some better verification. Not necessarily peer reviewed as that could take a while, but enough to reduce the lingering doubt. Confirmation from the university would do it for me. If published I would add germline to the blurb as that is the key here, somatic cells have been targeted for a little while now. Germline opens up a whole set of potentials and risks. AIRcorn(talk)21:58, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. For scientific news, this definitely needs verification contrary to the supports saying it's enough so far. Things like major medical organizations confirming it actually happened for one (to use an example from above, NASA reporting that their lander made it on to Mars). This may not be the case for other news, but WP:MEDPOP is pretty clear on why science news needs a higher bar compared to other things that might come up for an In the news candidate. I'd have no prejudice against considering this when more information is out there though. Kingofaces43 (talk) 22:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now I think this event is not enough for SCIENCE NEWS for now since more scientific approach has not come and the event may revert greatly.Mariogoods (talk) 05:16, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Let's break it down: 1. If he did it, we post. 2. If he didn't, we don't post. 3. We're not sure, so we... post it? Get a grip. ghost15:53, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Arguably that is the verified story here - the controversy over this announcement (whether it was successfully or scientifically validated or not) and to that end, that's possibly more interesting. But I think that we've have to change the article's focus and organization to be better suited for that. --Masem (t) 21:20, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Quality newspaper headlines are seldom filled with such outrageous claims. Article itself seems sufficiently peer-reviewed. Maybe the scientist's suspension resumes the outrage. Wakari07 (talk) 21:26, 29 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment': Looking good. There's a formatting error with reference 10 and references 17 through 20 have bare URLs. Happy to switch to support once these are sorted - Dumelow (talk) 09:37, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The strongest (on paper) human chess game since 1971 (when the world chess federation started having a strength rating system (extremely mathematical one too)) was 2825+'s playing each other. 6 years later in this match we got to see 2832+'s play each other which is pretty high since these 2 men and Kasparov are the only humans who have been this strong and only for a few weeks of this year and 61 days of 2014 has there been more than 1 at the same time. This is kind of trivia though, probably more interesting is 0 wins 12 draws: there's been c. 52 world championship matches and they've always had at least 2 games not drawn and <87% draws. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:02, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The blurb may not be strictly accurate if all the tiebreak games are not drawn, and specifying the 100% draw record refers to the classical games may make the blurb too lengthy. I've added a simpler alt blurb. Hrodvarsson (talk) 01:43, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support the second blurb once the match ends and the winner is known. The winless record in the classical games is trivial and the blurb shouldn't be overburdened with it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:31, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt per Kiril (if the article quality is OK - I haven't checked, and it's updated suitably once the result is known). Lose the "title" at the end though. It's unnecessary and doesn't match the format of any other sporting blurbs at ITN. — Amakuru (talk) 09:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are incorrect. The match has been running since 9 November. This nomination was on the eve of the tie-breakers, and I really don't see the problem with accessing the quality of the article shortly before the conclusion of the match.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:31, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The event started on 9 November. There was no point in closing this nomination for 6 hours. It could have been left open and nothing bad would have happened (apart from more eyes on the articles nominated, to assess their quality). Carcharoth (talk) 18:34, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I know the first game started long ago. I specifically meant today's tiebreak games. Regarding assessing the quality of the article, since the article required to be updated to include today's tiebreak games before any ITN posting, there were absolutely no other possible assessment result other than not ready. As ITNR, the readiness of the article is the only consideration, so what we have is people nominating hours before it's even possible for the article to be update. You can't even say a nomination may encourage another editor to improve the article to readiness since that's impossible before a result. And no, this isn't the first nomination I have closed for this precise reason, and I see no reason why I would not continue to close such nominations if I see it. -- KTC (talk) 18:41, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Taliban insurgents ambush a police convoy in the western Farah Province, killing 20 officers, including the newly appointed provincial police chief. (The Guardian)
American rapper 6ix9ine pleads not guilty to racketeering and firearms charges and is denied bail as his trial date is set for September 4, 2019. (Fox News)
A court in Milan, Italy, examines evidence submitted by the campaign group Global Witness, that alleges bribery around the attribution of the OPL 245 oil prospecting license in 2011 led to a loss for the Nigerian state estimated at US$6 billion. (BBC)
A Chinese scientist claims to be the first person to edit the genome of a human baby, by targeting an immune-receptor which is used by HIV (CCR5). This has provoked denial from the hospital and international outcry. (CNN)(AP)
After twelve consecutive draws, Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana will enter a tie-breaker on Wednesday, for the first match in WCC history to have no decisive games before the tie-breaker. (The Guardian)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support - article needs a "death" section or subsection but this death is really recent, I'll assume that someone would add it soon anyway. Juxlos (talk) 17:56, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And to head it off , Oppose Blurb. Even in the US, where Spongebob is well known, Hillenburg was not a household name in contrast to someone like Stan Lee. Certainly not a leader of the field. --Masem (t) 19:09, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This was a recent death nomination when the editors (other than Openlydialectic (talk·contribs)) expressed their support for it - it was changed to a full blurb nomination afterwards (by Openlydialectic) Also, support RD on quality, but oppose blurb on significance. --DannyS712 (talk) 18:57, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Maybe this file instead? It more clearly depicts the landing process. Also the deployment of the heat probe as shown in the original render won't take place for two days. – XYZt (talk | contribs) –01:20, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support but wait a couple more hours until the successful deployment of the solar arrays is confirmed or this was only partially successful. Article looks great, but the landing is only one half of today's news. Kenmelken (talk) 22:05, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose was always going to happen, joke accusation, joke sentence, almost more of a joke near-instant complete pardoning. The ridiculous parody is complete. The Rambling Man (talk) 00:29, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Whilst this gained some media attention, the conviction led to immediate diplomatic and academic protests; in response Hedges was quickly pardoned. He's now been released and is back in the UK. This turned out to be a flash-in-the-pan incident; highly stressful for those concerned but now resolved with little long-term impact. Modest Geniustalk14:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
If you say so. But this is a meaningless thread here and now, so feel free to make your proposed death blurb and/or propose a shift in ITN inclusion criteria on the talk page. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm open to it if you can you provide any citation from reputable sources that name him in the top five living directors. I went fishing [3][4][5] but couldn't find him in the top 40. ghost14:27, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I wonder if Tarkovsky belonged to "TOP 5 best directors alive by TMZ" back when he died. Besides, Bertolucci has stopped working on movies many years ago. Openlydialectic (talk) 22:04, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record, one of Openlydialectics past oppose rationales was "it's Sweden, it's[sic] politics is irrelevant". Yet it is apparently a huge deal to them that an, at most slightly above, ordinary director (going by the list from GCG above) does not get a blurb propsed in the very first comment while a transormative figure in another field, comic books, did get a blurb? To each their own i guess. Death blurbs are influenced by pop-culture to a degree anyway, looking at Carrie Fisher for example(who really was not even second rate in her field, as much as i love the original Star Wars films) So, really not unprecedented for pop-culture figures to get posted. But Stan Lee at least was a transformative figure in his field. Was Bernardo Bertolucci a transformative figure in the world of cinema or at the very least a towering figure amongst his peers? 91.97.240.14 (talk) 15:01, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: ITNR. Article requires a play-by-play of the game itself but otherwise is of sufficient standard for ITN, especially in comparison to previous years' articles. PlasmaTwa208:43, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose an unreferenced bullet pointed list of plays is inadequate (per nomination). There's also some out-of-date prose in the other sections that needs fixing. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Update referenced play-by-play has been added, taking care of the issues noted above. Without any other concerns this should be marked as ready. --PlasmaTwa222:00, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Ward dab is taken care of, but I don't understand what you mean with your second point. The scoring summary is in-line with previous Grey Cup and Super Bowl articles. Not sure how it is supposed to be any clearer who those names refer to. --PlasmaTwa200:40, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I just normally think that when people use abbreviations, they should at least explain what they mean. If you don't, that's fine, but not everyone on planet Earth will get CGY and OTT. The latter usually just means "over the top". If you don't think that clarifying abbreviations is useful, that's just fine, but it's on you. The Rambling Man (talk) 00:48, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Given the context of their use in the article I think it's pretty clear what the two abbreviations refer to. I trust people won't be confused by it given it hasn't come up in the past. I believe this article is ready to be posted. --PlasmaTwa200:55, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see you went and added the abbreviations yourself, as well as added several notes about missing citations (which I have added). I appreciate your assistance in getting the article ready for posting. --PlasmaTwa201:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Ukraine has just mobilized and introduced martial law. Possibility of a full-scale russian invasion has never been this high since 2014 Openlydialectic (talk) 07:14, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The first sentence of the blurb, as well as "neutral waters" and the link to "piracy", seems very POV. I know I risk being called a Russian bot but I think this is Wikipedia so NPOV is very important, even if Russia looks very likely be invading. I suggest be more precise on where the Russian ships seized the Ukrainian ones. -- Patrickov (talk) 07:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Patrickov: The entire blurb is only one sentence, and the first phrase is literally true. They attacked it in the neutral waters, and that's a violation of the rules-based international order. Although seeing how I am talking to a person who's own profile page on Wikipedia states "Oh yes, I should have told you that I'm no Russian, and instead I'm from Hong Kong." I should probably just not bother. Openlydialectic (talk) 08:01, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have added link to the BBC article which seems far more neutral than the one-sided one published by Kyiv Post, and the blurb should be re-worked accordingly. The accusation from Russia that the Ukrainian ships have illegally entered their waters can not be omitted. The escalation of the tensions in the follow-up of the incident has reportedly resulted in protests in front of the Russian embassy in Kiev. My opinion on this is to wait for some time and see how it is going to develop, as it seems the escalation of the tensions will not end here.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
WP is neutral, not bipartisan. The accusation from Russia should be omitted if it's spurious; Russia has no territorial waters in the area. ghost14:15, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia shoud be neutral but the blurb is clearly not. If you carefully look at what the media have published about this incident, you will certainly find bipartisan versions of the same story with mutual accusations. The lack of impartial information on what really happened gives this no chance to go on the main page unless it evolves into something more severe.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:55, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The article is basically incomprehensible at this point. It needs not to be written in gibberish before being posted. On a biased sidenote, editors should not forget that many claim this incident to be a political stunt by Poroshenko before the elections. For example, Ukrainians fully believe they have been engaged in an open war with Russia for the last 4 years (see link) - even though it is not reflected on this Wikipedia in such terms. It is a crazy land where outsiders might easily make false judgements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adûnâi (talk • contribs) 12:30, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Adûnâi, can you provide a quote form the article you've linked that says: .. [Ukraine] have been engaged in an open war with Russia? The first line of that article literally says: .. Russian direct and indirect use of force against Ukraine. The article's title even not saying there's an open war, it says about aggression. --VoidWanderer (talk) 17:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Article needs extensive editing – for example, president is spelled "preisdent" – and anyway incident seems to be an ongoing polemical political pageant. Unsee any reports of casualties. Sca (talk) 14:32, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This needs a lot more background information. Crimea (and its annexation by Russia) is central to this story here but was not mentioned until I added a couple lines. We shouldn't presume readers are 100% on international events and need to drop these blue links for context. --Masem (t) 15:03, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment certainly important enough for ITN, but the article quality isn't there yet, and none of the proposed blurbs are adequate. I'll look into improving the article. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:46, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is an important event. Its importance is confirmed by media coverage, wide international reaction and discussing in the United Nations Security Council. However, I think that the reference to the article about piracy should be omitted because the attack on Ukrainian ships was implemented by Russian government armed services but not any pirates. --Sergey Tsvigun (talk) 18:57, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose tagged, out of date, not seeing it "in the news" besides the minor blip it got when it first happened, not ITN-worthy, take it to DYK where anything goes. The Rambling Man (talk) 00:32, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support any of the blurbs. All tags have been fixed as far as I can see, so it's a support on quality; and it was and is front page news, and it's a major violation of international norms which led to an emergency security council meeting, so I also support on notability. The original blurb could be viewed as biased, which might be a reason not to use it and use one of the alt-blurbs instead; however, the first blurb is also accurate, so I'd support it. (NorthernFalcon (talk) 03:27, 27 November 2018 (UTC))[reply]
Wait. Russia's FSB laid the blame on Ukraine for sparking the clashes, saying their "irrefutable" evidence "will soon be made public". If we can trust Turkey when they dispute a Saudi explanation of a murder, we can trust Russia when they dispute a Ukrainian explanation of a sea incident. wumbolo^^^13:59, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Russia stops three Ukrainian Navy vessels from passing under the Kerch Strait Bridge by blocking it with a cargo ship. Russia claims they violated her territorial waters and ignored warnings. The navy vessels and their crews are seized after shots were fired. Russia says three Ukrainians were wounded. According to Ukraine, six of their sailors are wounded. Ukraine denies their ships did anything wrong. (Reuters)(AP)
At least 21 people have died, 180 have been injured and tens of thousands have been displaced by heavy rains that have affected Iraq. (Times Now)
A 6.3 magnitude earthquake strikes near Sarpol-e Zahab, Iran, and close to the Iraqi border. A person died in Iraq while more than 700 others are injured. (BBC)
Two more bodies are found in Paradise and one in nearby Magalia, raising the death toll to 85. Another 249 people are still missing. (CNN)
The chemical spill accident in Quangang District, Quanzhou, China on November 4 is found to be 10 times worse than initially reported. According to the government of Quanzhou, the actual leak of C9 aromatics was 69.1 tonnes instead of 6.97 tonnes understated by the Fujian Donggang Petrochemical Company. Several officials of Quangang District have been suspended from their posts and seven company employees have been arrested by the police in connection with the cover-up. (Global Times)
The San Ysidro Port of Entry, the largest border crossing on the Mexico–United States border, is closed after U.S. border patrol agents fire tear gas at asylum-seeking Central American migrants attempting to enter into the United States. The events were triggered by Mexican police breaking up a migrant protest, resulting in a rush toward the border. (Reuters)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Tagged lead for expansion. At least another couple sentences or so about his background before becoming governor, and what he accomplished in office.—Bagumba (talk) 05:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Nominated now that the season is over in accordance with previous year's consensus that blurb is posted after the season ends and not earlier when the winner has been decided mathematically. KTC (talk) 18:31, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Most of the 'season report' section is unreferenced, which I've tagged. There needs to be at least one reference for each race. Once that's addressed the altblurb will be good to go. Modest Geniustalk12:46, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What's even more an issue for me is that the report isn't finished. It has been expanded following the last race and the season wrap-up.Tvx1 14:47, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose From what I read there's two potential stories here but neither is ITN appropriate. One is that there as a referendum to legalize gay marriage, but that failed to pass [9]. As such, status quo there (and even if it did, it's certainly not first to the party, to speak of, also making it questionable). The second appears to be a result from local elections along this referendum, which the controlling political party, the DPP, lost a lost of local seats, but this was not a national election. [10] We dont usually post local general elections, so I don't see this facet also being appropriate for ITN. --Masem (t) 15:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If I understand this correctly, the referendum on same-sex marriage was non-binding and same-sex marriage is still scheduled to be legal in Taiwan May 24, 2019 if the Legislative Yuan does not take action sooner. Taiwan would be the first in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage, which definitely is significant. However, I don't know if this changes how events will play out and there may be future court challenges or actions in the Legislative Yuan and it also raises the question of civil unions. If indeed the deadline is passed and same-sex marriage becomes legal per the Court-ordered deadline, I think it should be posted to ITN. I admit that Taiwanese law/politics is not my specialty. Can someone confirm if this is indeed non-binding? -TenorTwelve (talk) 19:57, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support this made more than enough news both before and after the referendum to support. To say it isn't legally binding would imply that we shouldn't have posted the Brexit referendum either since it wasn't legally binding either, but we not only posted the referendum, we also posted [Miller case]. Adding a blurb too. Banedon (talk) 22:23, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Brexit was something that was well on the radar around the world prior to the public referendum. Even if the ref. vote ended up without passing, we'd likely still have posted it. In contrast, I had never seen any word of this Taiwanese referendum until today. The fact it doesn't change the status quo makes it not a great case for posting as ITN. --Masem (t) 00:11, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Not that I am opposing the significance of the same-sex marriage referendum itself, but it's just one of the three main foci. Should also mention the change of mayorships (especially Kaohsiung, which would see its first CNP mayor in 20 years), as well as the referendum on nuclear power. -- Patrickov (talk) 07:51, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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U.S. President Donald Trump announces that migrants seeking asylum at the southern border will wait in Mexico while their claims are processed in U.S. courts. Mexico's incoming foreign minister Marcelo Ebrard denies an agreement has been reached, and says "(no) specific proposal" has been received from the United States. Andrés Manuel López Obrador's administration will take power next Saturday, December 1. (USA Today)(BBC)
Referendum voters in Taiwan reject a proposal to allow same-sex marriage. A March 2017 Constitutional Court ruling found the ban on these unions unconstitutional and ordered parliament to change the law within two years. Earlier, the government said the results of this vote would not affect its complying with the court's decision. (BBC)
After eleven consecutive draws, a record for the 132-year-old championship, Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana are tied 5.5 points each in the best-of-12-games match. (The Guardian)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Oppose the Mens Twenty20 is ITNR and I'd support to curb systemic bias, but there is no prose update in the tournament or the final. (I'm not sure why we get hung up on that, but we do). --LaserLegs (talk) 22:44, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support I think the blurb "fourth win" bit is unnecessary, I think there should be more prose update in the "final" article (which is pretty much a stub really), and then it's all good. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:23, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Referencing problems, and a line or two should be added to early life to bridge the gap from his birth to the beginning of his career. Hrodvarsson (talk) 01:50, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
More sources have been added. Perhaps you could mark those of the remaining unsourced statements which you consider sufficiently contentious that they prevent posting. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:35, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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@DiplomatTesterMan: There are still a few "citation needed" tags in the Mary Kom article. Also, the "Awards and recognition" section does list a few awards that lack sources. When I was talking about the "tag" in the AIBA World Boxing Championship page, I was taking about the orange tag that was at the top of the page. ―SusmuffinTalk21:03, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Susmuffin: Thanks for pointing out the citation needed tags. There were 4 of them, I have replaced them with reliable sources. The tag in the AIBA page was for weight categories. After adding the weight categories I removed the tag. So that's sorted too. Now just seeing what to do with the "awards and recognition" section on the Mary Kom page. I think you are mainly taking reference to the National Awards.... since all the international ones are referenced throughout the article. For the national awards, should I just removed the awards for which I can't find any good sources? What do you say? DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 12:10, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Witnesses say that gunmen in pickup trucks attacked a police station in Tazirbu, southeast Libya. At least five people were killed and several civilians were abducted. (AP via WETM TV18)
Workers at Amazon distribution centers in Germany and Spain protest labour conditions in a strike coinciding with the Black Friday shopping peak. (AP via WSFA)(Reuters)
The LondonMetropolitan Police Service releases video footage of police cars being driven into suspected criminals on scooters. They say the tactic isn't new. (BBC)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Completely shattered NFL financial/valuation dynamcis with the purchase of the Texans franchise in '99. Lihaas (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Oppose purely on quality; there isn't sufficient information to even assess importance yet. We may need to wait until "likely unconnected" is more certain in other sources. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:58, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There was a separate attack that happened at the same time in Orakzai, Pakistan, that has killed at least 25. The two attacks don't appear connected yet. [15] --Masem (t) 03:13, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pakistan is ranked 20th on the Fragile States Index, so its no where a failing state. The list you linked mentions no deadly terror attack in Pakistan since July 2018 yet you say "several per day". Also, whats your source to "surrendered large portions of the country to a terrorist militia"? Your comment is grossly inaccurate, baseless and misleading. Even Bloomberg says "Pakistan's terrorist violence has dropped to lowest in more than a decade". The Donkey King (talk) 14:14, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There are 178 countries on that list, I'd say #20 is extremely close to a failing state. The list has been neglected since July 2018, but the daily terrorist incidents leading up to that speak volumes for the depravity and violence that are an every day occurrence in Pakistan. Is Waziristan not a large portion? The Taliban are firmly in control. Given that a mass shooting in the US was heaped with scorn and closed in just three hours, it seems reasonable that a non-incident in Pakistan which isn't even in the news should get a similar treatment. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:41, 25 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality. An "hour long shootout"? Inside? Outside? One person killed? Strip away the reactions section and there is no meaningful content here. --LaserLegs (talk) 23:17, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
An Israeli-American man, Michael Kadar, is sentenced to 10 years in prison in Israel for making 2,000 hoax bomb threats that forced evacuations of Jewish community centers in the United States. The threats, made by phone and email in 2016 and 2017, raised concern that antisemitism was on the rise in the United States. (Reuters)
Chinese state media report that five people are killed and 18 others are injured after a car plowed into children outside a primary school in Huludao, Liaoning, China. (Toronto Star)
Lee Jae-rock, a South Korean pastor and leader of Manmin Central Church, is sentenced to 15 years in prison over 42 counts of sexual harassment and sexual assault against eight of his followers. According to the Seoul Central District Court, the victims could not resist his advances "due to their absolute faith in the infallibility of the accused." (CNN)
After ten consecutive draws, a record for the 132-year-old championship, Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana are tied 5 points each in the best-of-12-games match. (The Guardian)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Article:Killing of Jamal Khashoggi (talk·history·tag) Blurb: CIA possesses record of wiretapped phone call between MBS and KBS giving the order to silence Jamal Khashoggi as soon as possible (Post) News source(s):USA Today Credits:
Oppose we did this article (a lot). If (if) this is a reality and it's released and independently verified, and if (if) there's some kind of tangible reaction, then we could (could) consider it for ITN (again). The Rambling Man (talk) 18:12, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not only for the points about, but that this is a claim from a Turkish newspaper that the CIA have that recording. Completely not appropriate for us to include, not even not at ITN. --Masem (t) 18:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Well, as the article says, WaPo already previously reported that the CIA concluded that MBS had ordered Khashoggi's assassination. And of course the CIA will make no comment on this latest "leak" from Hürriyet Daily News. The fact that the article has not yet been updated might suggest it's seen as no big surprise. Just to give some context Crown Prince "MBS" is the brother of "KBS", who is Saudi Arabia’s U.S. ambassador. But it's not clear when this phone call was made. What if MBS routinely makes calls like this, about all sorts of people he dislikes, on a daily basis? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:56, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Workers of the Haft Tappeh sugar mill company in the ancient city of Shush, southwest Iran, continued their strike and protests to the unpaid salaries for the 15th consecutive day. (Al Arabiya)
After nine consecutive draws, a record for the 132-year-old championship, Magnus Carlsen and Fabiano Caruana are tied 4½ points each in the best-of-12-games match. (The Guardian)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Support full blurb He's probably not very well-known in the west but this is a huge deal, the leader of the foreign intelligence agency of a global superpower. Imagine the reaction if Gina Haspel died tomorrow.64.92.14.4 (talk) 15:51, 22 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Support if the Kim Jong Yang article can be bought up to scratch. Interpol is a significant enough organisation that its presidential elections are notable. A note on blurb, while the BBC go for "Kim Jong-yang", CNN goes for "Kim Jong Yang". The name is unhyphenated on Interpol's website. [16] --LukeSurltc09:54, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose agree with TRM; there's a certain metonymy that happens with Interpol being attributed the actions of its member agencies - e.g. MI5 investigates... the FBI executes... Interpol didn't really do much. ghost13:03, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, once the Kim Jong Yang article is properly updated. An important development, particularly given the unusual circumstances surrounding the departure of the previous Interpol President, Meng Hongwei and the fact that he was widely expected to be succeeded by Russia's candidate, general Alexander Prokopchuk[17]. Nsk92 (talk) 13:43, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Per TRM – and because it's getting an ephemeral blast of publicity mainly as a political defeat for the Russian candidate, Alexander Prokopchuk, and by implication for his ultimate boss, Putin. Little practical impact. Sca (talk) 14:18, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Sca. Interpol is an administrative body that serves as a liaison between international police agencies. It has no real law enforcement power.--WaltCip (talk) 16:32, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose not convinced this is sufficiently notable. The organization isn't that big (756 employees in 2013) and the position is largely ceremonial. That this made the news this time is because of the political dimension, which isn't insignificant, but doesn't seem enough to override the afore-mentioned problems. Banedon (talk) 22:41, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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A policeman is stabbed near the Grand Place in Brussels historic centre by a man carrying two small kitchen knives. The attacker is shot in the chest and in a critical condition while the policeman suffers non-life threatening injuries. (ABCNEWS)
France's "Yellow Vest" protests over fuel taxes enter their fourth day as around 10,000 people continue to block roads around the country. (The Local)
Ivanka Trump, elder daughter of U.S. President Donald Trump, is found to have used a private e-mail account to handle government business e-mails. (BBC)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
I wouldn't care if it had 420 references, and the class assessment is meaningless: it's a BLP with paragraphs of unreferenced claims. You must know we simply won't post something in this state. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:53, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to personally dismiss the project-wide quality assessment scale, be my guest, but don't expect others to adopt your personal idiosyncrasies. Gamaliel (talk) 20:55, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sure I definitely want to dismiss anything below GA as it can be added by anyone without any kind of evidence. But that's a red herring. This is a BLP violation, I'm a little shocked you didn't know that. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:57, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A BLP violation? Let's keep this in some kind of perspective. I've added some citations and there are no paragraphs of text without at least one citation now. Gamaliel (talk) 21:01, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Large amount of unreferenced stuff in this one - whole sections completely without inline citations. Should it be bothering me that some of the references are themselves from the LoC itself's own website? I seem to remember something about primary sources... Challenger l (talk) 15:08, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The only sections without inline citations are the lists of citations to his works. Are you saying the citations need to be cited themselves? Gamaliel (talk) 22:04, 23 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: I think the granting of asylum of a former head of government is notable enough to warrant an inclusion. Article need a few more citations but other than that looks good to go. EternalNomad (talk) 19:55, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: This is a significant milestone in terms of development for a continent that has seen rapid infrastructure development over the past decade but never a high speed rail line. Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 13:28, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I want to support this (broadly that the topic is the type of ITN interest) but have questions exactly why this date: Nov 16 seems to be the date the line was inaugurated, and I can't tell if they have actually opened the line for passengers (not testing). Further, the article needs a bunch of tense adjustments since the construction is now all in the past. --Masem (t) 15:21, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article is not updated sufficiently. Kenitra–Tangier high-speed rail line contains no information since December 2010 in the body of the article. The lead contains a bare sentence that just says it was completed in 2018. Needs some expansion work on the building and opening of the line in order to be main page ready. Presumably, the news sources reported about the opening itself, ceremonies, the first train leaving, etc. etc. Find those sources, expand the article, and then we can post this on the main page. --Jayron3215:27, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Change to full support without reservations. Great job on the article improvements. There is no problem with this appearing on the main page now.--Jayron3204:32, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Per Jayron. Article is far too thin for such a major undertaking. "The project was completed in 2018" – This sentence, offered twice, doesn't constitute a sufficient update. Sca (talk) 15:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality - "construction underway"... on the first segment... "It was completed in 2018". The blurb isn't even in the article! I can't update sources with a smart phone, but the 3 refs above can add plenty of updates, along with a tense change as needed. - Floydianτ¢18:19, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Response - I've updated the article. The lead should be a lot clearer. I also added a list of stations, clarified the scope of the project, services offered and projected, costs and international partners.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 23:41, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
According to this source, the ceremonial opening was all that took place, and regular service has not begun, but is scheduled to before the end of the year. It would probably make more sense to wait until then to post it, with hopefully a better article, especially because the ceremony having taken place on the 15th makes it older than the current oldest story on the main page. The Wicked Twisted Road (talk) 01:21, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But when that happens it will be argued that it should have been posted now, and/or that it's no longer in the news, or basically stale, etc.Tlhslobus (talk) 03:26, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That may be true, although I doubt it, since opposition is mainly based on article quality. But I don't think the article is even eligible to be posted at this point since events are posted chronologically and there is no longer room for it on the template, so any discussion at this point is pretty much moot. The Wicked Twisted Road (talk) 03:51, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support on notability (I leave quality to be judged by others). It would be stronger support if it were in Sub-Saharan Africa (but north of South Africa) rather than in Morocco, which is next door to the EU and thus not truly representative of most of Africa (but on the other hand, that's arguably how development often works, slowly spreading out from near the more developed regions). Maybe it's also a bit notable that Africa now has a more advanced railway than anything in the former United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, where railways began, tho probably also a bit irrelevant as I expect it would be unencyclopedic for our article to say so. Tlhslobus (talk) 03:24, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Withdrew my oppose as the article is indeed improved, though still on the short side. However, I'm not sure about the project's general significance, so I'm not supporting. Sca (talk) 14:28, 21 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Nissan chairman and former CEO Carlos Ghosn is arrested in Japan for breaching the country's financial trading laws, prompting Nissan to recommend that he and director Greg Kelly step down for misconduct. Ghosn is also the chairman and CEO of Renault. (The Irish Times)
Chris Watts of Frederick, Colorado, is sentenced to three consecutive terms of life in prison without the possibility of parole for killing his pregnant wife Shanann and their two young daughters. (CBS News)
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Nominator's comments: The Coast Guard was brought into being on 22 October 2018 but the first ship was commissioned on 19 November. Perhaps not the biggest of stories but I found it interesting. Dumelow (talk) 10:58, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose this feels like just one arm of the Kenyan government. Just like we don't post the creation of ___ ministry in ___ country, this shouldn't be appropriate either. Banedon (talk) 22:00, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
While not stale yet, this is from the same day as the earliest RD currently live. There is another RD that is ready to be posted, and once it is this will be stale - given the current quality and opposition, this isn't going to happen (non-admin closure) --DannyS712 (talk) 10:42, 24 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Venezuelan politician and diplomat. Died while in office, he was the current ambassador of Venezuela to Cuba. Jamez42 (talk) 09:00, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Boko Haram fighters loyal to ISIS attacked a military base in the Nigerian town of Metele, killing at least 118 soldiers while at least 153 others were missing after the attack, the militants also seized tanks, armored vehicles, artillery, weapons, and ammunition (Reuters)
Hundreds of residents take to the streets in the Mexican city Tijuana, in protest of the arrival of thousands of migrants trying to get to the United States. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment Can we drop the "Monster Energy" part in the blurb? eg "2018 NASCAR Cup Series" will still be completely recognizable. --Masem (t) 01:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The series is formally called the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series, but I don't really have an objection from dropping the sponsor name. Dough487201:03, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I know its formally called that title, but given that the sponsorship of the event has changed, but otherwise is the "NASCAR Cup Series", I'd rather see us drop the forced commercial if we can. --Masem (t) 01:18, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree the sponsor should not be mentioned in the blurb. Is it normal to even put sponsors in the article title? One mention in the lead should be sufficient. For example, our articles are at IndyCar Series (not Verizon IndyCar Series), The Oval (not Kia Oval) etc. Modest Geniustalk11:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article is in fine shape, prose summaries of races are sufficient, everything is well referenced. Prefer Altblurb for the same reasons noted above. The year is obvious (cuz we're in that year) and the sponsorship is ephemeral and inconsequential. This is the NASCAR Cup championship, and any additional text is unneeded here. --Jayron3203:38, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Hundreds of thousands protest against fuel taxes in France by blocking roadways. One person is killed and more than 200 are injured in subsequent altercations. (The New York Times)
The medical records of British monarchGeorge III are released, solving the mystery of the King's illness, which has plagued historians for hundreds of years. Doctors say he would have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder had he lived today. (People)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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I think you're misunderstanding this story (the People headline is misleading, so it's their fault rather than yours). We've known for decades that his condition was Porphyria, as it's a hereditary condition and the genetic markers appear in his descendants; what was published last week was the details of the treatments that were tried. This is a non-story. ‑ Iridescent22:10, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose This article does not have enough inline citations. Why do people keep suggesting articles that are clearly not fit to be in In the news? ―SusmuffinTalk02:52, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Because there might be people willing to do the work to fix up citations and the like, if they are notified that the topic could be in the ITN box. --Masem (t) 03:01, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So, if every confirmed death is a good faith nom regardless of article quality, why not create an automatic ITN nom as items are added to Deaths in 2018? Alternatively, if I went out and did this manually, would that be seen as pointy, bad faith, or otherwise bad form? I ask out of legitimate curiosity; I have no preference one way or the other. ghost15:28, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It'd also clog up this page unnecessarily, thus wasting everybody's time, etc. If nobody cares enough about a death to bother nominating it, that looks like a rather good reason for keeping it off the front page.Tlhslobus (talk) 21:41, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose - the update in the prose is one poorly constructed sentence, the update to the lead is even more than that. Needs a little more before it can be considered suitable for the main page, notability is there however. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Comment – Sunken wrecks are always interesting, but the finding of this 33-year-old sub a year later in very deep water (by a commercial search firm to be paid $7.5 million) doesn't seem very significant. Sca (talk) 13:52, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support The significant coverage this received when it occurred is neatly book-ended by its resolution. Maritime wrecks of this lethality aren't all that normal nowadays. Chetsford (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a logical reason for that? (Presumably that also means it could never appear at TFA). Would an image of Hockney be suitable instead (except that we don't have one, of course). Martinevans123 (talk) 15:13, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Per the Foundation's requirement to keep fair-use to a minimum, fair-use is only allowed in article space (WP:NFCC#9). This has been the case for many years. It's unfortunate we don't have a free image of Hockney, but he has been a very private person for a long time, so I suppose it's not surprising. Black Kite (talk)15:22, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Only more for the TFA idea, a picture of the Case Study House #21 that inspired this painting would be a fair free-license replacement. I wouldn't use such for ITN (too many additional words to explain the connection) but in a TFA blurb, there's room to discuss the house as inspiration. --Masem (t) 15:46, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
To Martin, yes it would not be eligible to appear at TFA, which is quite often the case as to why TFA sometimes runs without an image. While it's a requirement of FAC to have at least one image, it can be a fair use image which cannot subsequently be used on the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:51, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it is best that there isn't an image of the painting or anything related to it in the "In the news" section, because once someone reads that the odds are probably quite high that they are going to click through just to have a look at the painting. It is presented well at the page, which is being improved and added to at a rapid rate. Randy Kryn (talk) 20:54, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not allowing fair-use material on the Main Page is a stupid rule that prioritises licence-free content over building an encyclopaedia. Main Page is in article space anyway. Whenever anyone points that out they get shouted down with an WP:AAJ, but the practice been in place so long that inertia has fixed it in place. Modest Geniustalk14:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good point Modest Genius, and maybe a discussion at the WikiProject visual arts talk page could also get more input and strategic information comments about how to "make it so". Front page use isn't a constant presence, so it's not a permanent usage of a copyrighted image. The Picture of the Day section would, of course, gain the most of such an extension of fair use, and open the door to information-sharing about many historical artworks (viewing and describing Guernica, some of Frida Kahlo's paintings, and thousands of others would be quite beneficial to Wikipedia readers). Thanks for raising this question. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:30, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the main page would strongly benefit from being able to use such fair use images. This isn't the place to discuss that really, we should find a more central location to thrash that out (and not a Wikiproject either). The Rambling Man (talk) 18:54, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, the reason we don't have non-free allowed on the main page came originally from Jimmy Wales circa 2007, which afterwards led to the formation of the basis of our current non-free content policy (specific in limiting non-free to main space. Main Page is considered a portal, I understand from these discussions. See [18] from 2013 and links included in that. --Masem (t) 23:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The death toll in the Camp Fire rises to 71, with the statewide total at 74. The number of missing and unaccounted-for people rises to more than 1000. (CNN)
At least 42 people have died while more than 20 others are injured in a deadly fire aboard a bus in Zimbabwe. (BBC)
A total of eight people die when a strong winter storm strikes the eastern United States, causing tens of thousands of people to lose power. (CNN)
Democratic gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams ends her campaign, acknowledging that Brian Kemp will be the next Governor of Georgia. In a speech at her election headquarters in Atlanta, Abrams emphasized that her statement was not a concession, and announced her intention to file a federal lawsuit against the state of Georgia for alleged mismanagement during the election. (CNN)
Science and technology
The first genetic analysis of hemimastigotes reveals they are distinct enough from other forms of life to be classified in a separate supra-kingdom. (CBC)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Nominator's comments: Significant news as the tribunal has been on-going for 20 years and these are the only people alive who faced a charge for the Cambodian genocide. Genocide convictions are historical. Pudeo (talk) 12:19, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Nuon Chea article has about 1/3 of it's content from a single source, a compilation of excerpts from "Soviet Archives" by a guy named Dmitry Mosyakov. The link at yale.edu is dead, but if you Google the exact title you'll find PDFs from alternate sources. The content in question isn't mundane either, I think it should be stricken if the article is posted. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:06, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Khieu Samphan is better, nothing really outrageous in it. There is a lot sourced to "A Biographical Encyclopedia of Contemporary Genocide: Portraits of Evil and Good." but without page numbers (I don't have access to a university library to check them anyway). Still it's probably ok. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:15, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The tribunal article itself has a pile of detail about the administrative organization of the tribunal which I don't think matters that much. I had to orange tag the list of judges, and added a few CNs here and there. The details about the individual defendants seem ok. I didn't read the controversies section yet, it's late here. If you post this, the tribunal should be the only bold link and needs cleaning up first. --LaserLegs (talk) 02:29, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I added multipled citations to the tribunal article and removed some unsourced information.[19] As for the biographies, they seem ok to me, although not close to GA status or anything like that. I have no preference whether the tribunal or the biographies are bolded. --Pudeo (talk) 09:16, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on notability. This seems really only a technicality. As I understand it, they are both already serving life for crimes against humanity. This genocide conviction merely covers the small fraction of their victims who were not ethnically Cambodian (such as Vietnamese, etc). Even if it were nevertheless deemed notable it might then be quite difficult to get a blurb that does not mislead our readers by overstating the importance of the event, thus damaging Wikipedia by giving some of our readers the impression that we use misleading clickbait. Tlhslobus (talk) 04:49, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll just disagree with the clickbait-thing as it was the #1 news article on BBC's frontpage when I posted it. It's true that they have already been serving a life sentence since 2014 for crimes against humanity, but the genocide convction is notable as well and also the main question of this UN-supported tribunal. Previously it also has been opinionated that it wasn't a genocide. Actually, the BBC article that's linked has a chapter on "Why is the genocide verdict significant?" --Pudeo (talk) 16:06, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Whether or not some of our readers get the impression that it is clickbait will have nothing to do with what the BBC news website looked like 2 days earlier, since they will not be aware of that. And just because the BBC claims that its own story is significant doesn't necessarily mean that it is, let alone that it is ITN-worthy (which the BBC story presumably does NOT claim, even for posting at the time, let alone for posting two days later), nor that our readers will see it as such (nor that we need see it as such). Indeed the very fact that the BBC have to explain why it is supposedly significant suggests that they realize that many of their readers will understandably not see it as significant (and they can explain that in their news items more easily than we can do so in our articles, as they don't have to be NPOV, RS-based NOR, and encyclopedic - it would be totally unencyclopedic, POV, and OR for us to try to tell our readers why this story is ITN-worthy, if only because there will not be a single RS discussing whether it is ITN-worthy). Meanwhile quite likely we have another reason for not posting, namely that it's gone stale. Tlhslobus (talk) 21:34, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this is already the top story at ITN. This will, once it finally gets to the bottom, be reassessed at the time and added to Ongoing automatically should the admin doing the update decide to do so. Do we need this nomination as well as all that? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:53, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My concern is that, if any future updates to this story occur, the blurb will be bumped to the top again as well as updated. We have never allowed that sort of treatment for any other ongoing event. In any case, the ITN photo has been the same person (on and off) for a while now (with Stan Lee to briefly interrupt), and I'm a little leery about having another Lugo on the main page. WaltCip (talk) 13:28, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have bumped items whose blurbs have changed notably during running. But we don't have to. And as this moves down the page, it'll gravitate into Ongoing. Why wouldn't we apply this same logic to the forest fires? That hit the news again today, "California wildfires: Number of missing leaps to 631" which significantly changes the landscape on that story. So should we re-work the hook, bump it up, or put it in Ongoing until the fires are handled? It looks no different to the Sri Lanka situation. And you could argue the same about the Ebola story..... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:02, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Why on earth would we do that? It's easy to change the blurb should anything major happen. It doesn't mean the blurb needs bumping back to the top. Just let it run its course. As far as I know, we've never demoted an article to Ongoing from blurb like that. If you do this, then you should do the same with the fires in Americuh too. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:05, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until the blurb rotates off; if the situation is still fluid at that point, and the article receiving frequent updates, then it can move to ongoing. If there's a genuine need to replace the blurb with a different one (rather than tweaking the originally-posted one) then start a new nomination here. Modest Geniustalk12:54, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Leave the blurb to naturally reach the bottom and be obscured, then if the issue is still in the news, nominate for Ongoing, that's how we do it normally and no convincing reason to do otherwise. –Ammarpad (talk) 13:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Renomination for ongoing is not necessary for all cases; Khashoggi was shifted down without a renom for example. (per WP:ITN: Older stories which are scheduled to roll off the bottom of the list may be added to ongoing at admins' discretion, provided that the linked article is receiving continuous updates with new information on a regular basis.) SpencerT•C15:16, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can agree renomination is not necessary but my main point still stands. We don't pull blurb just to convert it to Ongoing, we let it to reach the bottom, unless it's found not worthy of posting in the first place. Also Khashoggi's case was first posted to Ongoing then changed to Blurb after significant turn of events and a new nomination. So there's quite difference here. –Ammarpad (talk) 16:31, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support (once the blurb rotates off) Looking at the situation on the ground there it looks like there is no solid resolution in sight as of yet. There are still Supreme Court decisions on the events to be handed out in over a months time. Looks like there is still a month or two of this still to play out.--Blackknight12 (talk) 02:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: A fundamental change to how units are defined in physics; so quite big science news which is at least partly understandable at the popular level, so I think it is appropriate for ITN. Article looks to be in very good shape, though will need an update if the changes are confirmed. Of course we should not post until it is confirmed (16-Nov-2018), but it seems very likely to, so we might as well be ready. Adpete (talk) 00:10, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending vote outcome Article is in good shape outside the result of the vote (and presumably if voted for, it will be moved to "Redefinition of SI base units"). Interesting fundamental science news we don't get to post much about. --Masem (t) 00:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question I grew up in a metric country, I still find this Good Article to be somewhat inaccessible. Reading it, the definition of a second and a meter are essentially unchanged but the definition of a Kilogram "the current definition defines the kilogram as being the mass of the international prototype kilogram, which is an artefact and not a constant of nature, whereas the new definition relates it to the equivalent mass of the energy of a photon given its frequency, via the Planck constant. " What the hell does that mean? The Planck constant? an "international prototype kilogram"? WTF? If this is adopted, is a kilogram of potatoes going to be larger or smaller than it is now or so negligible that it doesn't matter to anyone who isn't trying to measure the mass of a single molecule? --LaserLegs (talk) 01:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The kilogram is currently defined as the mass of a standard block of metal. See [20] fourth paragraph. Planck's constant is a fundamental constant of nature, and it's related to the energy of a photon by the relation E = hf (E = energy, f = frequency, h is the Planck's constant). If this is adopted, you're not going to notice any differences. The changes are too small to be measurable without highly sophisticated apparatus. Banedon (talk) 02:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The BBC article has a good summary: right now, the only way to confirm the kg is to go to Paris to check against that weight (the Le Grand K). By switching the system to the Planck constant - which can be measured by anyone with a specific type of electromagnetic balance - then all other factors can be used to derive the kg. --Masem (t) 02:57, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support@SoWhy and The Rambling Man: and others: the vote today is a formality; although a necessary part of the process, there is no realistic chance that it will be rejected. Waiting for the completion is like waiting for a U.S. president-elect to take the formal oath at the inauguration, or waiting for Meghan Markle to say "I do". It's perfectly fine to have the event on the main page before that moment. (P.S. the webcast is live!) 209.209.238.189 (talk) 10:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The vote is being called right now... as expected, it has passed. (Unanimous except Kazakhstan, which is absent.) Draft Resolution A redefining the SI units of mass (kg), temperature (K), electrical current (A), and quantity of matter (mole) has passed. 209.209.238.149 (talk) 12:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A reminder: the article needed to be updated, it was not outside of changing a bit of the lede. I have added the necessary text and an updated source in the prose so no need to pull, but please make sure to check that when we pre-approve pending the necessary update, the update is actually there and sourced. (A few cn's have been added since but that's post-posting, and they're not significant glaring problems). --Masem (t) 14:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think that the committee is the body, and the conference is the meeting of said body; the committee voted at the conference. That's how I read the opening paragraph of the bolded article. The committee met at the conference, and voted on the proposal. --Jayron3213:14, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I read that differently, as the committee proposed a resolution at the conference, which was voted on by all delegates (a lot more people than just the committee). I might be wrong though. Modest Geniustalk13:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, because within the significant digits of your measuring devices, it doesn't vary enough to change the measurements. My understanding is that this removes the need to update these definitions because they were formerly tied to the mass of the Kilogram#International prototype kilogram, which being an actual, physical object (that is, an actual chunk of metal kept in a room in Paris), the definitions floated based on the variations in the mass of that chunk of metal. While that chunk of metal was quite stable, nothing is infinitely stable, and since it's mass would drift slightly over time, it would require re-definitions of the units (and of a bunch of constants based on those units). The new definition pegs the unit meaning to that of the constants, and obviates the need to compare to a single chunk of metal in Paris. --Jayron3214:55, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm less happy with the alt blurb because the units haven't been redefined yet, technically that doesn't happen until May 2019. I'd still prefer something along the lines of confirms new definitions as originally proposed. Adpete (talk) 00:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Weak Oppose due to the link being a DAB page and, also, the complete absence of a blurb; my !vote auto transitions to Support upon resolution of those issues. Chetsford (talk) 19:53, 17 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
CommentHemimastigophora should no longer be a redirect and that article should be created, and then that should be the target article, but the article created would probably still be quite stublike until further research is published. So I guess weak oppose unless an expert can write that article quickly EdwardLane (talk) 10:46, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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WP:NAC: consensus is clearly against posting these resignations (only two of which were cabinet-level posts). Many of the comments suggest waiting until either May is deposed or the full parliamentary vote is held. Modest Geniustalk13:48, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Oppose We don't post domestic political activities as a rule. If she is forced out then I would support. Otherwise this bickering over Brexit has been going on and will continue, up to and probably beyond the actual withdrawal date. That of course will be posted assuming article quality is up to snuff. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:50, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose for now. Article needs significant work to referencing in numerous main text sections, filmography, TV shows, awards etc. - Dumelow (talk) 17:56, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose with regret per Dumelow. Gloom- Despair- And Agony On Me, Deep Dark Depression- Excessive Misery, If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all, Gloom- Despair- And Agony On Me... -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:28, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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The death toll in the Camp Fire rises to 56, with the statewide total at 59. Authorities release the names of 130 people who are missing, including many in their 80s and 90s, with the potential that dozens more are unaccounted for. (CBS News)
Prime Minister Frank Bainimarama of the FijiFirst party wins a second term. Bainimarama's party holds on to a slim majority of seats in the parliament. (Stuff NZ)
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Nominator's comments: This vote is significant, as it marks the first time in modern Swedish history that a PM candidate failed a confidence vote, as well as continuing a deeply divided and historically lengthy government formation process. Specter Koen (talk) 10:24, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Seemed like he never had a chance, which makes this more or less expected. I'd support the successful formation of government (given the totality of circumstance, including that we did not post the elections). ghost18:26, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Unless I'm missing something, this just prolongs the existing situation i.e. it's a failed proposal. Maybe there would be a blurb here if/when a government is actually formed, but this is just more political manoeuvring. Modest Geniustalk19:28, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Looking at the archives I see we didn't post the election results in September due to the inconclusive result, and per Modest Genius I think we should continue to wait until the negotiations conclude.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 21:28, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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Four suspects have been arrested for the murders of eight members of a family in 2016. Police believe custody of a child plays a role in this case. One of the suspects has a child with one of the victims. (CNN)
Residents of the city of Calgary head to the polls to vote on a non-binding plebiscite to determine if the city should make a bid to host the 2026 Winter Olympic Games. (CTV News)
The unofficial results suggest the No vote is in the lead, and only a 40% voter turnout. Official results will be released Friday, November 16. (City of Calgary)
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Chilean bolero singer. My previous nomination got stale because of lack of references, but I still think it is worth nominating again. Jamez42 (talk) 00:06, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Needs serious work to referencing before it can be considered. There is only one inline citation in the whole article. There is no reference even for his death - Dumelow (talk) 00:13, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Support: Looks good enough. The main sources were dead links but I ran the internet archive bot over it which has remedied that - Dumelow (talk) 00:12, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A rocket fired from Gaza strikes an apartment building in Ashkelon, killing a man and injuring two others. The victim was a middle aged Palestinian illegal immigrant from Hebron. This is the first person killed on Israeli soil due to Palestinian rocket fire since 2014. (Ynetnews)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment: Article looks good, there are two bare refs in the list which I assume can quickly be fixed. I note one source for his death says he "died on Saturday" (ie 10 November) but the article (and second source) states he died on 11 November? Would like to see that fixed or the ambiguity noted in the article before posting - Dumelow (talk) 00:21, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Strong oppose Election limited to subnational division with commonplace delayed result announcement. Identity of anyone below the head of a branch of national government is an irrelevant matter for WP:ITN. CaradhrasAiguo (leave language) 01:38, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
SNOW Oppose Good faith nom, but we posted the midterms when they happened, (and they're still up in fact). We're not going to post the last races from the midterms to be called. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:50, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Support per GA, but wait for better update (currently it reads "Pearson died on November 12, 2018 in Spartanburg, South Carolina. The news was announced by Wood Brothers Racing; no other details were available.") --DannyS712 (talk) 23:02, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Notorious drug mule. Caught in Bali in 2005 with 2.6 kg of heroin taped to her body. Two other members of the Bali Nine were executed by firing squad in 2015, and one died in prison. Hawkeye7(discuss)20:29, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Looks fully referenced; likely to be a flood of updates over the next hour. We may need to wait for independent confirmation. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:50, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD and Support blurb Article is in good shape (well-sourced). As TRM said, this is a rare entertainment figure that is known worldwide and is blurb-worthy. --Masem (t) 19:00, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There is an overarching link (Currently ref 84 as I Read it) to the Grand Comics Database that is being used to cover those all. I think that's okay? --Masem (t) 19:16, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb with image I don't think I read a single comic book since I was like 12, so I can say I am unbiased in this regard. And I understand that his influence on the culture of both XXth and XXIst centuries was enormous. Definitively deserves a blurb per importance. Openlydialectic (talk) 19:16, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So many fields, so many transformative figures, so perfectly suited for RD. Don't worry TRM, I'm outnumbered, this will be a blurb ... and for the next two weeks every half assed article that's important to someone will get the "We posted Stan Lee so we have to post this" treatment. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:40, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, I really don't think so. I'm not American, I'm not a comic book (or comic movie) fan, but I think this passes the test. I'm afraid that now no-one will listen to you. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:42, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb with image. There is a clear consensus. A somewhat longer blurb might be used—I would recommend mentioning a couple of the characters he created, though I'd hate to get bogged down in a debate over which particular ones to use. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:37, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, it was more about consensus than quality. And Hawking is luminary, Lee is contemporary, as you know. Apples and pears. But good attempt at the old USA USA USA bullshit! Next up we'll be giving Wikipedia editors guns to ensure American articles are up to scratch! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The first half of the article is ok. The second half is... wow. Some of the most genuinely awful proseline I've seen in recent memory. "2. Over 44 cr hot, tasty and nutritious meals have been served to children till end of AY 2018. (May 2018)" indeed. —Cryptic02:52, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose while clearly improved from when the preceding comments were made, the article still needs copyediting by a native English speaker as it's not suitable for main page at this time. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:02, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Seven Palestinians, including commander Nour Baraka and three other militants, are killed during a raid by the Israel Defense Forces in the southeastern Gaza Strip, that was supported by air attacks. One IDF officer was killed and another was injured. Over a dozen rockets were subsequently fired from Gaza, three of which were shot down. (KUNA)(BBC)(Al Jazeera)
Ten people are injured after a man steals a car by stabbing its owner and drives into pedestrians on a sidewalk and at a shopping mall in Brăila, Romania. (Star Tribune)
A 50-year-old former strawberry farm supervisor is arrested in Queensland in connection with 230 reports of sewing needles found hidden in strawberries. The "strawberry scare" spread throughout the country and to New Zealand, and devastated Australia’s multimillion-dollar strawberry industry. (BBC)(The Mail)
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Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
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The town of Paradise, California, with a population of 27,000, is largely burned down. More than 6,700 buildings have been destroyed, making it California's most destructive wildfire since record-keeping began. (CBC)
Butte County Sheriff Kory Honea reports 14 additional bodies have been found in the city of Paradise bringing the death toll to 23; Honea added there are 110 outstanding reports of missing people. (AP via MSN.com)
Two people have been confirmed killed by the Woolsey Fire, which has burned 70,000 acres and hundreds of homes near Los Angeles. (BBC)
The death toll of the ebola virus outbreak in the Democratic Republic of the Congo that started in August, rises to 200 people. This is the deadliest ebola outbreak in the history of the country. (BBC)
A landslide leaves at least 10 people dead while eleven others are injured in Niterói, Brazil. (The Guardian)
Law and crime
RCMP confirm one of two explosions at the Strathcona County Community Centre in Sherwood Park, Alberta on November 6th was deliberate, and the other was accidentally set off. They also disclose the suspect shot himself and later died from his wounds. No one else was hurt in the incident, and a motive for the incident is still under investigation. (CTV News)
Florida Secretary of StateKen Detzner orders machine recounts in the U.S. Senate race and the state's governor and agriculture commissioner races as required by law when the lead is less than 0.5 percent. Results are due by 3 p.m. EST Thursday. Should the results still be within 0.25 percentage points, a manual recount will be triggered, with results due on November 18. (CNBC)(NPR)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: American football player. Article generally very good. A couple of short uncited passages and a bare url. I am away from my computer for a couple of days but hopefully somebody can remedy these minor issues - Dumelow (talk) 00:38, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support A couple of very minor sentences that need citing (sorry, I know nowt about Rugby League in armour), but this is generally a good article. I fixed the bare URL. Black Kite (talk)01:28, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support I like the sound of his name. And I learned something about Michigan rushing records. I'm still not sure I know what rushing is, but I've cited the part about him doing it better in one game than any Wolverine ever has. InedibleHulk(talk)04:08, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
One person is killed and two others are injured by a knife-wielding man in Melbourne, Australia. The suspect, a 31-year-old Australian resident originally from Somalia, randomly stabbed pedestrians after exiting his burning, crashed utility truck that held multiple gas canisters. He was shot and killed attempting to stab responding police. The Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant claims responsibility. (ABC News)(The Age)(NPR)
At least 11 people have been killed and more than 150,000 evacuated as two big wildfires rage in California, the Camp Fire in Butte County and the Hill Fire in Ventura. (BBC)
Flash floods caused by heavy rain in Petra, Jordan, kill 11 people while 24 others are injured. (BBC)
Two additional bodies are found in the rubble of the two buildings that collapsed four days ago in Marseille, France, bringing the final death toll to eight. (LCI)
State judges order election officials from Broward and Palm Beach Counties to release absentee ballot information as they continue to count the ballots. (WINK News)
The American Civil Liberties Union files a lawsuit in response to President Trump's proclamation that denies asylum to immigrants who enter the country illegally. (USA Today)
Nominator's comments: This relates to a wide-ranging criminal investigation that occurred beginning in 2017 but was only publicly revealed on November 9 in an investigative report by Focus when the first indictment was handed down. The article itself is new and has been classed "B" and the incident - which involved a plan to lure several members of the Bundestag to remote locations and murder them - has received widespread media coverage within Germany since the news broke on November 9. (To be clear, the news item is the story by Focus, not the events on which the story reports.) Chetsford (talk) 01:32, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: While the outbreak is still going on and wont be resolved for a while, the fact that it is now confirmed as the largest outbreak in this country appears to be newsworthy. While western sources are getting the story now, this stat was made on this date, so posting here. Masem (t) 15:18, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's a story that gets updated, but not necessarily on a daily basis. I do see the article seems to be kept up to date, so it could be ongoing, but I see no issue with a blurb either and maybe downgrade to ongoing once it falls off? --Masem (t) 17:57, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support as long as the blurb is changed to make grammatical sense. Should be e.g. More than 200 people suffer from a second outbreak of ebola in Democratic Republic of the Congo in 2018, making it the largest such outbreak in the country's history. Joseph2302 (talk)20:44, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think the blurb should mention that 200 deaths happened over a period of time (since August). The current blurb gives the impression that 200 people died yesterday. --ASF23 (talk) 02:19, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment maybe move to ongoing once it bumps off the bottom of the news - if it is not under control at that time (which unfortunately sounds likely). EdwardLane (talk) 16:35, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Support based on historical significant of the attack and quality of article given how recently the attack occurred. (note: I also updated the blurb to bold the like to the article) --DannyS712 (talk) 02:51, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The weakest of possible opposes A seemingly lone wolf operation that ends up only killing one is not really that big a story. I know they said the man may have had a larger plan (with propane tanks) and was a person of intereest before, but still, this ended up with minimal harm. But that said, I'd not be against this being posted, just feel this is where the hypothetical MINIMUMDEATHS should be considered even if it was terrorism related --Masem (t) 06:22, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you two talking about the USA? I was just pointing out Australias knife murder rate for some context regarding this article. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:50, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I really don't like the nominator's argument. We already have a systemic bias, and this way of dealing with it is counter-productive. A day before this attack, this prison riot in Tajikistan resulted in 27 deaths, and it was also inspired by ISIS. Being terrorism-related may be DYK material, but it's not always appropriate for ITN. wumbolo^^^16:43, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The results and effects of 2018 Sri Lankan constitutional crisis will have significant domestic and regional geopolitical consequences. President Sirisena has set a new precedent in boldly violating the constitution which has and will further escalate the crisis. Blackknight12 (talk) 20:55, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the blurb really needs to mention Sri Lanka in there somewhere. Of the ones suggested so far, the first altblurb is the least bad. Thryduulf (talk) 22:26, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support- huge news, and goes to show the pro-american bias on Wikipedia. Results of a legislative elections in a presidential republic get published immediately, while the announcement of a coup in an asian country is basically ignored. Shame. Openlydialectic (talk) 12:41, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is not that this isn't important, but we also look to article quality, and this one has a neutrality tag at the very top, which we cannot post with that still there. --Masem (t) 14:07, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me? It was just pointed out in multiple comments that the U.S. mid-term elections were considered general elections via ITN/R and were not the only instance of such elections being posted to ITN. I'm having a hard time not believing at this point that you're just fishing for a reaction.--WaltCip (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@WaltCip:, stop with this demagogy. You know full well that the results we had posted before were from countries that were pairlamentary democracies (e.g. Germany, United Kingdom) and where aforementioned legislative elections therefore determined who was going to become "the real" head of state, they determined who was going to be in the executive branch. The United States is not a legislative elections, so comparing the recent US case with postng elections from the UK or Germany is misleading, and I refuse to believe you don't understand that. You do, you are just not interested in anything but furthering your biases. Openlydialectic (talk) 18:53, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Openlydialectic: I already know posting this article on the main page is not important to you at all, because you haven't yet fixed the article so it could be posted. You're just here to stir up trouble, and aren't really concerned that Wikipedia properly covers Asian topics. And I know this because if that was a concern of yours, you'd have actually done something useful about it, and cleaned up this article so we could post it. If you had already fixed the article, it would have already been in the main page. --Jayron3214:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Openlydialectic notwithstanding the education provided to you above by admin Jayron, I honestly don't think you seem to understand how this process works. The article is tagged with a POV banner, that needs resolving before it can posted to the main page, that's an actual rule. Secondly, you claim "Results of a legislative elections in a presidential republic get published immediately" yet a cursory glance reveals it wasn't posted "immediately", but 15.5 hours after nomination. Thirdly you don't appear to have noticed that it was an WP:ITNR which meant that all assessments were purely based on quality, and nothing to do with perceived significance. If you need any assistance understanding the ITN process in either this, or any other such case, don't hesitate to give me a shout. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:10, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia has become too tiresome for me to edit it, at least for now, which is why I haven't fixed it. However I will say that seeing how all 3 of you were triggered by my assertion of existance of pro-american bias on wikipedia, it just goes to show that this assessment was indeed correct and is also largerly unfixable seeing how even a mention of such bias triggers a large chunk of wikipedia's editor base Openlydialectic (talk) 15:25, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment sadly it looks like a bit of a drive-by tagging, the tagger stating "too many problems to list currently" which isn't helpful. The tag ought to be removed until the problems are concisely identified, otherwise this is a stalemate situation. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:10, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, first I'd like to "thank" those editors kvetching about the process (and accusing me of drive-by tagging) without doing a damn thing about the very obvious issues. Clearly none of the blurbs are acceptable, yet none of the people claiming "bias" have improved them. Second, is "dissolving parliament" by one of the two rival camps really the news-worthy event here, or should this be "ongoing"? Third, the NPOV issues should be pretty obvious, the sourcing on "Rajapaksa presidency" isn't good enough to support "increasingly authoritarian", the timeline section is a list of news stories with no particular concern for importance, "Bribing with cabinet positions" doesn't reflect that section's content, and the "Reactions" section is lousy even as far as those lousy sections go. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:12, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rightly or wrongly, what you did was drive-by tagging as you had enough time to tag and start a section but yet failed to list a single actionable item. Some of those interested in posting this may have benefitted from a clear description of the problems. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:21, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If I had the time yesterday to list every issue with the article, I would have fixed it myself. If they can't read the article, why should I trust them to write it? power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's not really about you, your standards, what or who you trust, it's about informing the editing population where you thought POV issues existed. Of course, doing what you did was precisely what I said, stalemate. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:30, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Power~enwiki thanks for improving the article, but I have to agree, I think it would have better had you made a clear list to all the problems when tagging the article. I knew there were many problems with the article, but I have been out-resourced this whole time, nor could I keep up with the fast pace of the changing events. But had there been a list I could have focused on fixing those issues when I got back. Having said that, its looks like the article has gone through some changes thanks to User:Power~enwiki, User:LaserLegs and User:Openlydialectic. Are there anymore issues you would like to address?--Blackknight12 (talk) 03:16, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The article could use about 6 hours of skilled copy-editing; the timeline sections are disjointed at best. Openlydialectic's comment about how there aren't many sources from Sri Lanka is also accurate; unfortunately I'm not sure anyone here can read Sinhala or Tamil. Finally, this still seems like an "ongoing" event rather than the (disputed) dismissal of parliament being notable on its own. power~enwiki (π, ν) 03:18, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question can someone help me with the "Recent events" section, it looks like it was copied almost word for word from it's only source: a BBC article. I don't know if I should tag it for copyvio or if it paraphrases enough or if more refs could save it or what. Feedback welcome. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:39, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Same with the alleged assassination attempt. The article says "Sirisena began firing the heads of state institutions not in his purview and replacing them with those loyal to him." and the NYT article it refs says "Mr. Sirisena began firing the heads of state institutions not in his purview and stacking them with loyalists.". Is this a concern? --LaserLegs (talk) 18:42, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it's bad enough to require revdel, but it should be fixed (and should I just assume that everything that's unsourced and awkwardly written is in that BBC or NYT article?) power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I was surprised that the ref supported that remark, honestly. You'll have to check them all. I'll get out of your way, have some yard work to do. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:47, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The article about this crisis has two noted problems about it. That is a lot, especially for an article that we are considering posting to the home page. Furthermore, I do not know how relevant this crisis is to begin with. According to Parliament of Sri Lanka: "The President of Sri Lanka has the power to summon, suspend, prorogue, or terminate a legislative session and to dissolve the Parliament. President can dissolve Parliament only after the lapse of 4 1/2 years or if 2/3 majority of Members of Parliament requests him." While I am no expert on Sri Lankan politics, that other article makes things like this seem quite routine. Alternate Side Parking (talk) 23:54, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I have a few problems with the article. There are two timelines, they need to be merged, and turned into coherent paragraphs. There is a "recent events" section in the "background" section which makes no sense. Still a number of CN tags and it needs a copyedit for grammar. More importantly though I'm not really seeing widespread coverage of this (before you stomp on my throat, that was enough to kill the Indian nuclear sub story in a few short hours) and even though I've read the article a few times, I still don't understand the problem here: an unpopular former president was made prime minister? Why? So what? --LaserLegs (talk) 11:31, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've done some more editing and cleaned up the article. FYI the problem here is not that an unpopular former president was made prime minister, but they way in which he was appointed, the blatant disregard for the law and the multiple violations of the constitution, among other things. I'm not sure where you are from, but this is definitely headline news in the country and the whole region. The crisis has been and currently is widely reported on internationally.--Blackknight12 (talk) 17:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What does the appointment of the house leader have to do with bribery allegations? The economy section is puff. "landslide victory" is puff. Why did Sirisena replace his PM? Has he made any statements to that effect? And so what, the position is largely ceremonial. Oh well, this is certainly going to get posted, and it's better than it was, but it's very rough. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:06, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability per Banedon, Pharaoh of the Wizards, etc. It's important for Sri Lanka, for the future of democracy in the region generally, and for the long-standing and ongoing Sino-Indian and Indo-Pakistani power struggles in geopolitics (with India and (China+Pakistan) seemingly supporting opposite sides in the dispute). I leave article quality, blurb-wording, and 'blurb vs ongoing' to be judged by others. Tlhslobus (talk) 18:54, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support + alt blurb III - added alt blurb III which is shorter, to the point & makes no mention of the 19th Amendendment that has basically kept it from getting posted. 39.57.138.205 (talk) 06:13, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well that and the article doesn't explain WHY it happened, or what the impact is, just that it did happen and the opposition lost their minds over it. --LaserLegs (talk) 11:55, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – One can't see the forest for the trees in this prolix 4,000-word article. If it belongs anywhere, it belongs in Ongoing. – Sca (talk) 14:21, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb3, which is simple and avoids POV issues. A significant threshold in an ongoing political crisis. The article may not be perfect but it's decent enough. Modest Geniustalk15:17, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support altblurb3 - This should have been posted to the main page two weeks ago when the prime minister was replaced but unfortunately the two nominations were bodged, the nominators didn't even bother to update Portal:Current events. Events have since become even more serious.--Obi2canibe (talk)23:27, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I am just making a note here that, as identified in ERRORS, the SC of Sri Lanka has issued orders blocking this action. I have updated the ITN template and bumped it up a bit due to this significant change. --Masem (t) 15:31, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Article:Imelda Marcos (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Former First Lady of the Philippines Imelda Marcos is convicted of seven counts of grafting over US$200 million to a Swiss foundation, and sentenced to serve up to 77 years in prison. (Post) News source(s):NBC News, BBC, NYTimes Credits:
Nominator's comments: Article claims to be a GA but it has dozens of CN tags. Note she is (at least, just before today) a sitting politician. Also, this is a case that has been ongoing for 27 years Masem (t) 15:11, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Based on the historical factor and Imeldas status. Some work needs to be done I guess, but it could be fixed before nightfall.BabbaQ (talk) 15:54, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, she's stated she will appeal (she's losing her current seat in the Ph. Congress, she's fighting to keep it). --Masem (t) 15:59, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW, the quality at GA and when it was put up for FAC wasn't bad at all [27]. It's what happened in the last two years that have "ruined" the article. --Masem (t) 19:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand the charges, at minimum she will spend X years of jail time per each charge (I think it was 7) - there's no way around that. As she's 80, that basically means she's going to likely die in jail from natural causes. The actual conviction here means little. --Masem (t) 22:06, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
She won't be actually sent to jail until after the appeals process ends. As you said that she's old, she might never be sent to jail, nor her conviction be finalized. Howard the Duck (talk) 22:08, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We don't usually wait on appeals. Nearly ever conviction/sentencing is appealed, and only if that decision is flipped would we repost. --Masem (t) 06:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Can anyone else confirm this? I like to see previous case law on this one, considering that nothing changes on Marcos' standing despite conviction, as she's still a free woman, and can still run for elective positions. Unless Marcos doesn't appeal, her conviction means nothing. Howard the Duck (talk) 09:17, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I mean the main point in the news, whether she will serve the prison term is another matter, but the conviction would automatically disqualify her from holding public office. STSC (talk) 09:49, 11 November 2018 (UTC)STSC (talk) 09:38, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. A final confirmation of conviction is needed to perpetually disqualify someone from public office. If Marcos is appealing, it's not final. (Now if Marcos is pardoned, that's another matter.) Howard the Duck (talk) 09:52, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. It doesn't disqualify her from public office. This changes nothing. She's still a free (wo)man, can still run for office, and won't go to jail. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:23, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If there's a hollow victory, this is it. They can't even make her pay up what she stole at this point. ITN posts entries when there's a clear change of status (elections notwithstanding) on something/someone. This changes nothing. Wait until the appeals ends, then we'll talk. Howard the Duck (talk) 10:57, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So it's a hard fast policy as documented by one user's essay that you've used an WP:EASTEREGG to suggest is actually policy ( circumventing the consensus at WP:RfD) . Except for that time when it wasn't a few weeks ago. Got it. ghost14:27, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The conviction of corruption itself (at long last) is significant news about a notable former First Lady of a poor country. Must post now. STSC (talk) 21:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think the ex-GA article's quality is quite acceptable as it stands. Every article is work-in-progress. Would you like to improve the article? STSC (talk) 07:19, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well sadly you're wrong, it's nowhere near acceptable. And no, I'm not interested in this article in the slightest, but thanks for the invitation. You're supporting it, you improve it. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:44, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, that's the worst news I've had all day, and I've been awake for literally an hour. Sorry you wouldn't want your Arbs to tell you cold hard facts, the truth, rather they'd obfuscate and conceal? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and no doubt you felt the bunch you elected were ideal too. What has that got to do with anything here? I'll tell you: absolutely nothing. Stop wasting time. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:45, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - "Articles are held to a minimum standard of quality. Articles should be a minimally comprehensive overview of the subject, not omitting any major items." The ex-GA article has far more than just this minimum quality required by WP:ITN. STSC (talk) 12:28, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As required by WP:ITN: Articles that are subject to serious issues, as indicated by 'orange'- or 'red'-level tags at either the article level or within any section, may not be accepted for an emboldened link. This article has several such "serious" issues. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you disagree with the tags, remove them all. If not, then no problem. You don't have to be "bothered to improve" something when pointing out there's something wrong with it. That's not how it works. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Of the tags, all I see are "page needed" and "incomplete short citation". Both are issues but those are GA/FA-level completness stuff. WP:V has been just met. For purposes of expediting this, I would remove all those, but leave a link to the current version on the talk page to identify the problem citations so they can be fixed. It's definitely not a lack of sourcing at this point, just formatting of those, which we do not expect perfection at ITN. --Masem (t) 19:39, 13 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We've never posted an article at ITN with so many inline tags, you know that. This is not about expectation of perfection, that's a red herring, this is about not promoting work which is frankly embarrassing to the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:56, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Inline tags after an article has been nominated at ITN should be dealt with, but we're talking about an excessive number of inline tags that attempt to target quality issues we normally would not care about at ITN. Things are sourced, but book sources are lacking a more specific page reference, for example. That's a long-term issue, but not something ppl should be excessively tagging. I know the article was filled with CNs at the time I nominated, but those have been addressed. --Masem (t) 06:10, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We're not going to post an article with so many inline tags. Their existence is justified. The sooner we all accept that, the better. Besides all that, there's no consensus at all to post this story in any case. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:17, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I extremely doubt that if someone filled in a whole bunch of CNs with a single reference to a book but did not include page or chapter numbers with that ref, that we would not consider that acceptable for ITN. We are critical of CN tags which were a problem with the article before, but "page number" tags are not a critical failure for ITN. As I've said, at the present time, while at some point those page number issues should be fixed to be more precise, WP:V is otherwise met, and at this point for purposes of posting in a timely manner (which this is soon to run out), clearing out the page numbering warnings is completely acceptable. If they were CNs, absolutely agree that those cannot be removed and not addressed, but we simply do not have that stickler on the quality of the cite format for ITN. (And I'd argue that consensus is there to post once the main tags were dealt with, which they have been, leaving only the "page number" ones). --Masem (t) 07:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's not going to happen, and you know it. We have never posted anything like this, and we shouldn't start now. And there's no consensus to post, at all. She hasn't even been arrested. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:27, 14 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"We"? You don't speak for us. The objections here were mainly based on seeing the orange tags but those tags have been cleared. The other minor maintenance tags had been indiscriminately applied and they can be dealt with anytime. STSC (talk) 16:48, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I am speaking as a member of the community who are aware of our norms (i.e. we never post such tagged material) and as a member of the community who can also read consensus (i.e. there's no consensus to post this). It's also a non-event as she hasn't even been arrested. And you are absolutely incorrect if you believe tags to be have added "indiscriminately". The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 15 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I said we have never posted such tagged material, so we should not start doing so, particularly in such a marginal case and particularly when there's no consensus to do so and particularly when the story is a damp squib. When she gets finally arrested and perhaps sent to prison, then you might have a story, so plenty of time to get the article up to scratch in the meantime. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:18, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"ITN serves to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest." You don't just wait and see what may happen next. STSC (talk) 18:44, 16 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've not evaluated the story yet, but if it is posted it needs a much better blurb than that - it needs to say "camp fire" is a specific wildfire and not the usual meaning of "camp fire". It also needs some indication of significance - population? Evacuations? Deaths/injuries? Thryduulf (talk) 11:42, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Population 26,551. Also amazingly this is a place that averages 8 centimeters and 5 days of rain in October and twice or more that in November (think Mediterranean climate, like Italy), and even in the East when it can get 40C and no rain for 5-15 days and pine trees are full of turpentine this kind of thing usually doesn't happen. It takes 3 months of drought for maximum flammability. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 13:24, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose stub. Not really seeing how it could be much more than this, other than through immense fluffing. This probably needs to go into the Paradise article really. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:36, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Really? A fire starts sunrise, town of 27,000 ordered to evacuate hours later and some are still trapped (nearly every household has cars and officials err on the safe side especially since they must've been in an extreme national weather service red flag fire warning or something and all parts of the state are no stranger to deaths from extreme spread speed), burns everything burnable, grows to 81 square kilometers by evening and it'll be a stub forever without immense fluff? Their typical Nov 9 weather is similar to London except almost triple the rain, this is climatologically unusual. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:41, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – Agree it's a stub at this point, but this looks like it could be fairly major. AP quotes fire official saying "a couple of thousand" structures destroyed, entire town "of 27,000" ordered to evacuate. San Jose paper says "the fire claimed multiple lives." SF Chronicle says "more than 30,000 people fled for their lives." Developing. Sca (talk) 13:59, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I know the news on this is the rapid destruction of Paradise due to unpredictable winds, but there's two other fires in CA going, wit the Woolsey fire also having being seen as a similar threat. While wildfires in CA are not uncommon, these two (Camp and Woosley) are extremely close to major towns and thus more threatening than those more well in the wilderness. I agree with waiting just a bit but it might be appropriate to consider a merged blurb here. --Masem (t) 15:27, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Global warming makes places near deserts like Cali drier by extending the dry season and growing the desert. The climate zones move poleward. The nearest weather station to fire had only 5 millimeters precipitation since April 7th — 3 mm in May and 2 on Oct 2. On ignition day it went from 4°C no wind to 22°C 40kph in 6 hours and dew point actually dropped from -12°C to -18 giving a humidity of 6% which is a third of the driest place on Earth's average. And this was about 20km upwind of and downhill from the town. No wonder it spread fast. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is it safe for body counters to search the town yet? Do they use "death specialists" like coroner for this or people who might be busy now like police? Hopefully there's enough oxygen to let it burn past you breathing a bag of air underwater or in a concrete building or something but I don't know how common that is. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 20:48, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Update – As of 22:000, six RSs say five dead (NYT: "at least" five) in Paradise-Chico (pop. 90,000) area, with 150,000+ evacuated, including SoCal residents in the path of the Woolsey Fire near Malibu, NW of L.A. (Sources updated above.) – Sca (talk) 22:17, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Adding an altblurb that talks about all three concurrent fires. While the Camp Fire has the largest attention, the other two are just as dangerous due to the problematic winds. --Masem (t) 22:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support (Alt) – As of 14:00, "at least" nine dead, more expected in Paradise area; 200,000 told to evacuate in SoCal. (Sources updated above.) – Sca (talk) 14:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Whats wrong with the general wildfires page? Everything is sourced, it even surprisingly goes into the reasons for the fires this year. Further, to not post the other major fires going on is putting too much emphasis on the Camp Fire. All three (now four?) fires are wrecking havoc and multiple blazes make fighting just one more difficult. --Masem (t) 15:48, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support (with note that I'm in the affected area) – added a picture along the PCH looking toward Malibu from the Woolsey Fire. So many homes lost here and in Northern California; the Camp Fire is the most destructive in Cali history, definitely ITN-worthy. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 20:05, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As a note to the posting admin, I've put the picture into the bot queue to get the right protections. Hasn't taken yet. --Masem (t) 06:59, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A riot at a high-security prison in Khujand, Tajikistan, known for holding convicted terrorists, including ISIL members, leaves at least 27 people dead. (Reuters)
A federal judge in Montana orders a suspension of construction on the Keystone XL pipeline, citing an inadequate review of the potential environmental impact of the pipeline. (NPR)(Great Falls Tribune)
China's Xinhua News Agency unveils the world's first AI news anchor. Xinhua says the AI presenters can work "24 hours a day", thus reducing news production costs. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment The National Film Board of Canada references are broken. The NFB appears to have redesigned its site sometime in the past several years. Hrodvarsson (talk) 00:59, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: A shooting in the USA with a rather high body count (11 plus a Sheriff's deputy, and the gunman himself). WaltCip (talk) 12:18, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It is because of the size that I exercised discretion and chose to nominate this to ITN, since you are correct in that there are simply too many mass shootings in the U.S. to nominate (only 17 by your count?).--WaltCip (talk) 13:17, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If, jeebus forbid, shootings with 10+ deaths started happening every week, we would stop posting them all. A threshold of frequency does exist, it's just a question of where it lies. We had Stoneman in Feb (17), Sante Fe in May (10) and Pittsburgh in Oct(11). Absent some additional circumstance, I think we've reached BAU now. ghost13:59, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now due to the article being a stub. When the article is expanded to a reasonable size, will re-evaluate its quality. --Jayron3212:40, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support While the article is a stub, this is notable. Mass shooting in the United States with more than 10 deaths is automatically notable IMHO. Also, 13 people have now been confirmed dead by CBS News. — Matthew Wong (at PMA), 12:45, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And when it is not a stub, I will reassess the quality. We shouldn't post an article on the main page that is of insufficient quality. --Jayron3213:16, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I don't understand what makes this different to any of the other mass shootings that happen in the US? The Pennsylvania shooting was different as a clearly religiously motivated attack on a synagogue - even in the US that is not routine. However a man randomly shooting dead students with no immediately obvious motivation is, incredibly sadly, rather run-of-the-mill for the USA in the 2010s. The body count isn't all that exceptional either - it's only the 6th most deadly in the last 3 years. Thryduulf (talk) 13:49, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. 'Country with virtually no gun control and poor health services surprised when people get shot'. Although frankly if it does get posted, just take a line out of The Onion's book and recycle the headline from any number of the previous shootings. Its not been news for years. If ITN is going to be a news-ticker of sensationalism, it should be covering the Whitehouse's attacks on the free press and blatant distribution of doctored video footage while lying about it. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:09, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose because at this point, it is just old news. A mass shooting breaks out, a couple bystanders die. There isn't really anything that sets this different from other shootings that had happened in this year alone... and honestly, if a mass shooting isn't distinguished from other similar incidents (i.e the aforementioned Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania synagogue shooting), it doesn't really deserve a spot here unless there is more than meets the eye here, and we already have more than enough ITN coverages on shootings in the U.S alone. GreatZerosReef (talk) 14:14, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict × 2) Oppose per Thryduulf. Sadly such shootings are basically routine in the US and will likely be largely forgotten within a day or two. I might revisit this if new information reveals something different about this shooting compared to all the others. Regards SoWhy14:30, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also, unlike other such shootings, coverage outside the US is slim at best. For example, Der Spiegel has three stories about the US on their homepage at the moment: The first two muslimas in the House, Jim Acosta and Ruth Bader Ginsburg's hospitalization. Top story btw? Courts ordering bans on driving of diesel cars in certain cities. Regards SoWhy14:51, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – Until perp is ID'd, at least. Meanwhile we can ponder Gerrit 's question at the top of this discussion. To be frank, I'm getting inured to news of U.S. mass shootings that seem random rather than terrorist acts (even though I'm American). This looks like another nutcase. Sca (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose barring anything odd in the identification of the shooter. In contrast to the synagogue shooting, which was a religious/ethnic-driven shooting that borders on terrorism, this appears to be far less ideologically driven and more random act of violence. --Masem (t) 15:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We don't post about mass murders in other places of the world where they are a common occurence (like the recent rebelion in a Tajik prison where 40 people died and which doesn't even have a standalone article on wikipedia), so why should the US be any different? I mean, it's not like these things don't happen there every month or so --Openlydialectic (talk) 15:34, 8 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Authorities find the bodies of two other men in the two collapsed buildings in Marseille, France, two days ago, bringing the death toll to six. (The Journal.ie)
Pakistani Christian woman Asia Bibi, sentenced to death by hanging in 2010 and recently acquitted, is released from prison. Bibi has reportedly boarded a plane; however, its destination was not known. Several countries have offered her asylum. (BBC)
At least 12 people, including a police sergeant, are killed while ten others are injured by a gunman at the Thousand Oaks Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, California at around 11:15 p.m. PST (UTC-8). The gunman committed suicide at the end of the attack after a stand-off with police. (BBC)
The FBI and police find new clues in the search for Ashley Summers, who had been missing from her residence in Cleveland, Ohio since 2007. (Fox 8)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. The referencing is still well below the required standard - only half the prose is referenced, the filmography is sourced to IMDB and the awards are unsourced. The "Personal life" section also needs expanding or merging into the "life and career" section (and sourcing). Thryduulf (talk) 11:47, 9 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but the remaining three César nominations have totally stumped me. The fr.wiki article has no sources either. Any help much appreciated. Of they could be just commented out for now, of course. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In two separate incidents, there are a total of at least seventeen migrants killed after they attempted to cross the Mediterranean Sea from North Africa to Spain. (Reuters)
A pair of buildings collapsed yesterday in Marseille, France, with today four people being found dead while others remain missing. (The Guardian)
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Obviously won't have results for a few hours, but polls have closed on the East Coast so results will start coming in. I am pretty confident there are editors ready to fill in tables as races are decided. Format of blurb borrowed from 2014 midterms, but may be simplified depending on what happens. Posting this now to get eyes to review the rest of the content of the articles. Masem (t) 23:47, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question are you sure US midterm elections are ITNR? Searching ITNR for "midterm" finds no results, and the elections subsection only says changes in head of state are ITNR. Banedon (talk) 23:50, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's a general election - the whole of the House are fighting for their seats + 1/3rd of the Senate. Not to mention several Governorships and state-level congressional bodies. --Masem (t) 23:54, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I would think it obvious, but to source outside WP, NYTimes and Library of Congress. "General election" is to distinguish this from primary or runoff elections, and again, with the whole of the House and 1/3rd of the Senate being voted on, that certainly meets the idea of a majority of the national ruling body being at stake. --Masem (t) 00:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Heh. I remember half the discussion in 2014 was discussing if this was ITNR, and if it isn't ITNR, if it's important enough. Obvious enough, let's wait. The UK doesn't even elect heads of state if we're basing on Banedon's reading of what's in ITNR yet we have posted each and every "general election" from that country. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:14, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be interested if any of those who opposed in 2014 will take that definition of this being a general election. I'd also be waiting on someone to remark Kardashian-levels of tabloid coverage serious mainstream media devoted to this event. Howard the Duck (talk) 00:19, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support when updated This is a general election. The entire 435 seat House of Representatives is up, plus 1/3 of the 100 member Senate, plus 36 of the 50 governors and the constitutional offices (Lt. Gov, Attorney General, etc.) in those states. It has also been a dominant news item for some time. Depending on how the results turn out, we may know in a matter of hours, or a matter of days, who has the majority in what chamber. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:16, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We likely won't know the results until tomorrow morning, and in any case, it's best to wait for the rest of the world to wake up so that they can weigh in on this (it's currently just after midnight UTC).--WaltCip (talk) 01:33, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and close The results of the election will not be known today. In order to be consistent with the treatment of elections in other countries where their ITN nominations were raised prematurely on election day, this nomination should be closed now and reopened once results are known. Chrisclear (talk) 03:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, judging by AP, they've already called a bit more than 1/3rd of the House seats. There may be a few tight races, but US elections at this level will have their results declared within hours of West Coast polls closing (the few seats from Alaska and Hawaii not withstanding). --Masem (t) 03:13, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reply I appreciate the points you've raised, but I still think the nomination is premature, and it should have waited until 7 November. There seems to be a significant inconsistency with how this election is treated, and the speed with which ITN nominations of elections in other countries (eg. Pakistan in July) are closed. Chrisclear (talk) 03:19, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's more a fact that while there's part of teh US election system that remain convoluted, the well-connected nature of the country means tally results are quickly gathered and disseminated. In a country like Pakistan that lacks the infrastructure for that, that's just not the same thing. Mind you, if there are enough tight races that the press cannot report either way (Bush v Gore, anyone?) we should wait too. --Masem (t) 03:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Yes I agree with your comment about the "well-connected nature of the country means tally results are quickly gathered and disseminated", especially when compared to other countries such as Pakistan. However I also agree that there could be "enough tight races that the press cannot report either way (Bush v Gore, anyone?)", and this is the main reason why I think the nomination could/should have waited. Chrisclear (talk) 03:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt Blurb Losers don't like feeling controlled. And neither do the people who believed in them to save the country. Especially as antsy as the media's made people this time around, best to frame this "civil war" a bit more positively. Besides, we all know who really controls both houses, whether or not we agree who that is. InedibleHulk(talk)03:20, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's not a neutral altblurb, at least in calling them "loses majority", that feels very "sore winner"-ish. Nearly all other general election results simply note which party/platform gained control, not who lost control. --Masem (t) 03:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
weak-ish support very dubious as ITNR but still this is gonna shape the economy and it IS in the news. Suggest a link to the main election page as governors is important too.Lihaas (talk) 04:53, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the articles haven't been updated yet, and probably won't be fully updated for another 8-12 hours; most of the results should be available in 2-3 hours but US editors will be asleep then. power~enwiki (π, ν) 07:10, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment right now all blurbs use Easter egg links, they don't link to the Senate or the House of Reps, they lead to election result articles. This should be fixed. Also, several tense issues in the linked articles which need to be fixed before this is posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:33, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but wait for the official results not just media calls. As discussed on WT:ITNR, I think this qualifies as a 'general election' because all House seats were contested. I've adjusted the alt2 blurb to make it clear that those are names of parties. Modest Geniustalk11:34, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait for official confirmation that the Christofascist legislative agenda has been stopped dead. This is ITN/R so once the results are in, all that's needed is a quality prose update. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:24, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Enough House and Senate seats have been reported officially won to basically confirm the aforementioned results. Actual "official" results may take weeks, by which time this story will have become stale.--WaltCip (talk) 12:37, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Wikipedia is not a news ticker, and this is just a routine legislative election, not a change of government. If there's something out of the ordinary about it please tell us what that is and include it in the hook. — Amakuru (talk) 13:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The general election article says In presidential systems, a general election is a regularly scheduled election where both the president, and [...] are elected at the same time. So by that definition it's not a general election. We wouldn't post an election of this nature from other countries either. Now there may be a case for saying this is exceptional for various reasons, which we can debate here, but it doesn't qualify automatically under ITNR. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 13:44, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This same article states later, specific to the United States, "General elections occur every two to six years (depending on the positions being filled with most positions good for four years) and include the presidential election". This is an example of such an election. The U.S. President is determined every four years. The mid-term election represents a changing of the guard of the legislative body, which is the lawmaking arm of the federal government. The Democrats assuming a majority in the U.S. House represents a fundamental change in direction of the country's legislation, as until then, both the House and the Senate were of a Republican majority, and the U.S. President is a Republican. That a President was not elected does not exclude this from being a general election.--WaltCip (talk) 13:49, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Considering the conversation that was just had regarding the significance of this election and that we've posted elections like this in the past, your comment strikes me as being tremendously ignorant. Struck out my comment as bad faith in retrospect, thought I do contend that this is not some "random legislative election" and that this marks a significant shift in the direction of the U.S. federal government. The President is not the King.--WaltCip (talk) 14:17, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Outside of a few races which are close, both articles are updated with last night's results. The few contested races are not going to change the broad swings in either House or Senate. --Masem (t) 14:57, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Posted altblurb 2. This is ITNR and is updated. I thought about posting a picture, but it seems unfair to post a picture of either Pelosi(the likely Speaker) or McConnell(the Senate leader). 331dot (talk) 15:09, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But is it updated? The lead (and infobox) for the House election doesn't currently (see here) mention who has won (and I for one have neither the time nor the inclination to try to update this myself, as I suspect it's not there because some editors insist the results are not yet official or whatever). So do we need to think about either temporarily pulling or amending our blurb? Tlhslobus (talk) 16:26, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The results within each state, where known, have been updated, but yes, the House lacked an overall update: I've added that (noting it is projections, sourced to NYTimes). Senate one had a similar line. So both are updated as best as we can at this point, barring the fact that official results won't be posted for a few weeks. --Masem (t) 17:04, 7 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Could we please change "keeps or expands" to "keeps and expands"? If you expand the majority, you also keep it, so they are NOT mutually exclusive. Thanks. pbp08:42, 10 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A kidnapping occurs at a school in Bamenda, the capital of the North-West region of Cameroon, with at least seventy-eight students and three staff taken, including the principal. The Anglophone Crisis is a conflict between separatists and the government of Cameroon. (BBC)
In Port Hedland, Australia, authorities deliberately derail a runaway train after the driver left the train for an inspection. The assemblage consisted of four locomotives and two hundred sixty-eight wagons, was operated by BHP Billiton on the Pilbara Railways, and traveled ninety-two kilometers. The train was en route from Newman to Port Hedland. (ABC Australia)
Seo Ji-hyeon, a leading figure of the Me Too movement in South Korea, files a suit against former South Korean chief prosecutor Ahn Tae-keun and the government for physical and psychological distress. (YJC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Weak Oppose only a one-sentence update to the article so far; the blurb doesn't communicate why this is important (and I'm not convinced yet this is an important milestone in the Indian nuclear program). power~enwiki (π, ν) 05:53, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "6th to do X thing" isn't usually significant. This also would have been more notable upon its launch than the completion of its first task that it was built to do in the first place. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, needs copyedit, refs, and expansion of the development phases section. Support on notability, a nuclear powered submarine firing nuclear armed SLBMs is not a trivial thing (even with Russian help), and I think it's a significant milestone in Indian military buildup even if the story isn't getting widespread coverage. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:20, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that when it fires an SLBM at someone, it would be notable. If this does not have widespread coverage, it is not "in the news". 331dot (talk) 12:22, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Project 971 submarine is a fast attack boat, not an SSBN. Based on, maybe, but no carbon copy. The reactor was indigenous, and perhaps most importantly is the miniaturization of the nuclear warheads necessary to make them viable for SLBMs. I mean, this isn't the sixth time someone built the worlds tallest water slide, and while maybe the sea trials were a better time to nominate, absent a time machine, it's nominated now. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:39, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even if we set aside the "posting the 6th of something" problem, the timing is a big issue as "the significance of the developments described" is nil, which is WHY it's not in the news. This nom fails to check almost all the ITN boxes. ghost16:52, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Although a reasonably big event, ITN not really needed for this. Article needs expansion to convey importance of the news. Blurb needs rephrasing to even be considered. DiplomatTesterMan (talk) 12:46, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The article gives no indication of whether this submarine is nuclear-armed, just that it is nuclear-powered (two very different things). Even if it does carry nuclear missiles, the sixth nuclear triad is not a major story, and the first cruise is a strange time to nominate it. India has had nuclear weapons for a long time. Modest Geniustalk13:02, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I may be wrong, but I think (in the interest of secrecy) navies don't generally say "such-and-such boat has nuclear missiles." The article does state that this boat carries nuclear-capable missiles. ghost13:58, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article has been updated and is well sourced. It is short, but as more reliable obits come out, the article will be appropriately expanded. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:26, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There is almost nothing about her principle claim to notability (being crowned Miss America) and nothing at all in the body of the article which (apart from a single short sentence) focuses exclusively on her life after that event, and barely goes into detail about anything other than her husbands. Thryduulf (talk) 12:11, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Heavy floods affect Palermo in Sicily, Italy, killing twelve people. The total death toll of the floods and strong winds in the country rises to 31 people. (Teleacras)
69.1 tonnes of C9 aromatic hydrocarbon are leaked into the ocean at a port in Quangang District, Quanzhou, China when a petrochemical company loads the cargo from its terminal into a chemical tanker and the aged hose coupling gasket breaks. Nearby aquaculture farms are contaminated, resulting in huge loss. Many fishermen and residents get sick from the leaked chemical, and 52 of them are hospitalized. Local authorities are accused of playing down the severity of the leakage. Discussion of the accident is suppressed on Weibo after the accident has become a hot topic. The company lies that the amount of leakage is 6.97 tonnes. (Splash 247)(Sing Tao Daily)(Shanghaiist)(Global Times)
Support - this referendum was the product of a decades-long struggle between the Kanaks and France. The mere fact that a referendum was held is highly significant, regardless of the results. BTW, I don't think "New Caledonia" needs to be bolded. -Zanhe (talk) 19:08, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle but as Dumelow says, more details should be added. I am 100% sure we would have posted if the original Brexit vote was against exiting as the coverage leading to it was significant enough - same here. The media were certainly not treating this like the random kooky "should our state secede from the US?" that randomly makes it to some elections but is never given serious coverage. --Masem (t) 20:38, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment in reply to Dumelow and Masem - I started the reactions section, but I can merge it back into the other sections for the time being. We can redevelop it after international governments comment on the event. Brendon the Wizard✉️✨20:59, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support maintaining the status quo is just as notable as not maintaining the status quo. Not as exciting perhaps, but notability shouldn't be in question. Banedon (talk) 22:46, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support notable enough to be on the main page from my point of view. I was going to nominate it when I realised there already is a discussion here. Turismond (talk) 01:05, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
An Indonesian Diving Rescue Team member dies while searching the debris from the passenger jet that crashed earlier this week near Jakarta. (ABC News)
A lorry loses control at a toll station in Lanzhou, China, killing at least 15 people and injuring 44 others. (BBC)
Colten Treu faces charges of vehicular homicide and drug related charges after he drove his car into a group of Girl Scouts collecting trash by the road, killing 3 and a mother along a Wisconsin highway (KSTP) Treu claimed his passenger was huffing Dust-Off and caused the accident by grabbing the wheel as he saw the scouts (Oxygen)
The Spanish Attorney General seeks jail terms for Catalan independence leaders for the crime of rebellion with the highest requested penalty being 25 years against Oriol Junqueras. The State's Advocacy is asking for prison sentences for only the lesser crimes of sedition and embezzlement. (Reuters)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment: There are two unsupported claims in the article "He also studied martial arts under master Lam Sai-wing" and "At the time Cathay was a predominant force in the Malaysian film industry". I think they should be addressed before posting - Dumelow (talk) 10:58, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment a number of the refs are in Japanese, which I can't check. I get my back up a little when I see a whole paragraph with a single ref. For example "In Game 2, the Hawks started Rick van den Hurk." is not supported by the ref. --LaserLegs (talk) 18:20, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for clarifying Muboshgu
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
@LaserLegs: Respectfully, the source (which does cover everything in that paragraph) does verify that van den Hurk started Game 2. Johnson (1-0) allowed four singles and a walk, while striking out seven at Hiroshima's Mazda Stadium to outduel right-hander Rick van den Hurk ... Van den Hurk (0-1) allowed five runs, three earned on eight hits. He struck out seven without issuing a walk. ... Van den Hurk fell to 1-1 with a 3.44 ERA, also in three career series starts. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:16, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe it's because I'm not baseball-literate, but how do I infer that the Hawks started Hurk in Game 2? If I'm not capable of evaluating the refs in the article, that's ok. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:06, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@LaserLegs: The text I quoted all talks about the results of the two starting pitchers: Kris Johnson and Rick van den Hurk. The very last part confirms that it's talking about van den Hurk's stats in the three games he has started in the Japan Series in his career. I get it's not the most direct language, and as a baseballphile I can take that for granted. I don't know who added the Japanese-language sources, but I assume they're accurate. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:12, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support and marked ready. All looks good to me, though I would appreciate it if the lead got expanded at some point while the article is out there. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 07:17, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One of the most influential religious figures in Pakistan, and a former senator. The assassination is probably notable enough for a blurb. Article is in decent shape pending update. EternalNomad (talk) 15:06, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment presently, the sources I see are linking this to the Asia Bibi story we have up there, but I'd wait to see what Western sources say about it. It might be worthwhile to modify the Asia Bibi blurb to something like "In the wake of Asia Bibi's acquitial,..." to introduce this, if there is a perceived connection there. --Masem (t) 15:12, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Finally, western sources are picking this up, but none of them directly connect the acquital to the reason for death (only that it can around the same time.) Agree that this does not then rise to a level of a blurb. --Masem (t) 15:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb, weak oppose RD article needs a bit of work, but this is not a blurb, just as the acquittal story was not a blurb. We must certainly not make combined blurbs based on any kind of perceived connection. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:34, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD Assassination of who is popularly known as Godfather of Taliban in the wake of Asia Bibi's acquitial is something very significant. --Saqib (talk) 16:00, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now: article needs a bit of work. First sentence of "career" needs rewriting into natural English. Second paragraph needs a reference at the end. Article sections and content are jumbled (why is "Early life" after career?, "Early life" includes things that happened in 2013). Would support RD if these are dealt with, not convinced yet about significance for a blurb - Dumelow (talk) 16:32, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose combo blurb for now. He was an ally of the ruling party, but at the same time he opposed the acquittal and had plans to join the protests.[31] So that is most likely related to the Bibi case one way or another. But we also shouldn't post them together unless we've established a clear connection. Sources are merely saying that the incident "comes at a sensitive time", which does not necessarily link the two. For all we know, this could be nothing more than a coincidence, or probably just an opportunistic hit while security forces are preoccupied. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 16:59, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question What is the connection to Bibi? Also, if a person is so important as to make their death at 80 blurbable, the article needs to be longer than this. ghost17:48, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Look at me by all means. Neither of these "huge deals" are even on the main page of the BBC News homepage. And deliberately supporting a low quality article is somewhat flawed (looking at you Openlydialectic). Now quit the pathetic personalising and get on with making Wikipedia better for our readers, not a soapbox from which to attempt to right great wrongs. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
>Neither of these "huge deals" are even on the main page of the BBC News homepage. Neither of them are on the main page of North Korea's main news organization either, but most normal people don't look up to random state media outlets for verification of importance of a particular news piece Openlydialectic (talk) 20:16, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fix the {{cn}} tags and then I will support RD. The article is good enough once those have references. Strong oppose blurb as they fall well short of the 'major transformative world leader' required by WP:ITN/DC. Modest Geniustalk20:18, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD when citation needed tags are fixed per Modest Genius. I am not familiar enough with the subject to comment on whether or not I would support a blurb at this time. Brendon the Wizard✉️✨20:39, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just for context, that rating itself is of low importance. Everyone can just change it to whatever they like. That parameter has outlived its usefulness and is overdue to be removed from Wikiproject banners. –Ammarpad (talk) 06:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC).[reply]
Exactly. This "importance" rating parameter in the talk page template is basically random and essentially meaningless. It should not be taken into account when making decisions here at ITN. Nsk92 (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb doesn't rise to the level of significance needed for it. RD is sufficient, but even then when the issues surrounding the article are resolved. –Ammarpad (talk) 06:31, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD; oppose blurb per LaserLegs. Article needs improvement: current issues with referencing as well as the section on a scandal is nearly as long as that of his career (career needs more expansion). SpencerT•C20:36, 3 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD As noted by the proceeding IP, we don't blurb every unnatural death of a person that meets GNG - the standard is "prominent" figures. This is subjective, but at the very least I should have heard of him. Also, no one here or in RS has provided even the most tenuous of connections to Bibi. ghost16:10, 4 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm really not comfortable with something as bold as "father of the Taliban" in a BLP article cited to two right wing think tanks. I guess it's fine? #twocents. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:15, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Father of..." is the sort of hagiographic language that doesn't really mean anything specific. I think it's okay to repeat it as long as it's attributed, so long as it's not patently inaccurate. ghost12:35, 6 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Chinese police announce that the driver of the bus that plunged into the Yangtze River in Chongqing, China, on October 28 was arguing and fighting with a passenger moments earlier, causing the accident. (BBC)
The state of Tennessee executes Edmund Zagorski, a man convicted of the April 1983 murders of John Dotson and Jimmy Porter, making it the first time the state has executed an inmate by electrocution since 2007. Zagorski requested that he be executed via electrocution. (NBC News), (ABC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Businessman and namesame of Nintendo's Mario. Happened on the 27th but it looks like the news just broke today. Feel free to move back to the 27th if appropriate. shoy (reactions) 17:43, 1 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support and only if we're going to be nitpicky on the date, this local area paper broke the news on the 31st, but agree either way that either the 31st or 1st is the date it got media attention. --Masem (t) 14:42, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This used to be part of ITN/R, but was removed last year (here) --DannyS712 (talk) 04:29, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
Regards SoWhy 10:26, 16 November 2018 (UTC).jpg)
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Tlhslobus (talk) 02:12, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
