AppSheet Help Center now available in Japanese

[lizlynch]

We are excited to announce that the AppSheet Help Center documentation is now available in Japanese! 

To set Japanese as your preferred language in the AppSheet Help Center:

1. Go to the AppSheet Help Center at support.google.com/appsheet.
2. Select your preferred language in the drop-down at the bottom of the Help Center window:
   

Thank you, 
The AppSheet Team

---------

AppSheet ヘルプセンターのドキュメントが日本語で利用可能になったことを発表できることを嬉しく思います。

AppSheet ヘルプセンターで日本語を優先言語として設定するには:

1. AppSheet ヘルプ センター (support.google.com/appsheet) にアクセスします。
2. ヘルプセンター ウィンドウの下部にあるドロップダウンから希望の言語を選択します。

ありがとう
The AppSheet Team

[SkrOYC]

I could work on the spanish version btw

[JSO]

Hablantes japones: 140 millones.

Hablantes español: 600 millones.

[SkrOYC]

It seems money on hispanic countries is less than the wealth of japanese counterparts

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @JSO @SkrOYC 

I actually thought Spanish support would come first.
I agree that you guys feel it is not fair given the number of native speakers.

However, now that this site has been released, please forgive me for giving feedback to AppSheet for Japanese users for a little while.🙏

I hope the day will come when AppSheet will be freely available not only in Spanish but also in other languages around the world.

[devingu]

We've heard you: )

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @lizlynch 

When I browse the search results, it reverts back to the English display.

 
Looks like all we need to do is change the parameters to link.
https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10106592?hl=ja&sjid=11997925045660947551-AP

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10106592?hl=en&sjid=11997925045660947551-AP

[devingu]

Hey Takuya, It may take a couple of hours for the search function to be completely live for Japanese! Thanks for your patience and we are going to monitor this closely.

[takuya_miyai]

Thanks @devingu @lizlynch 

The search was conducted in Japanese!😍

App Creators in Japan are happy!🤗

[devingu]

Glad our creators in Japan are happy! We will share more updates in the upcoming months! 

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @lizlynch 

I'm glad they support Japanese.🤗
Now that Japanese content has been developed, I would like to see the search function also be able to use Japanese.

Note, スライス mean Slice. That page is following link.
https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10106592?hl=en&sjid=11997925045660947551-AP

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @lizlynch 

Duet AI remains for Japanese content.
Should be changed to Gemini.

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/13785572?hl=ja&ref_topic=11981149&sjid=119979250456609475...

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/13785572?hl=en&ref_topic=11981149&sjid=119979250456609475...

[lizlynch]

@takuya_miyai Thank you for reporting the issue with Search. It may take a bit of time to index, but I will check with the team to see if this is expected. 

I just resubmitted that page yesterday. So it should be updated to Gemini in AppSheet very soon! Thank you for reporting this. 🙂

[Kirk_Masden]

Wow!  I think this is a big step forward for AppSheet in Japan.  I know that there are many smart people in this country (I live in Japan) who are not good at English.  Expectation of a good command of English has been a significant impediment to the spread of AppSheet in Japan, in my view.

One thing I like about how you have set this up is that creators can easily switch from any page in English to the Japanese version, or vice versa.  This let's people compare the two easily, which I think is great.

Finally, if I can be allowed a little shameless self-promotion, I'd like to share a link to a short paper I wrote in Japanese about how I use AppSheet in my university classes.  I could be wrong but I think it may be the first academic paper written in Japanese about AppSheet (it was published on the web in 2020):

⾼等教育におけるノーコード開発プラットフォームの有⽤性
ーAppSheet のプラットフォームで作成した単語学習アプリを中⼼にー
https://axies.jp/_files/conf/conf2020/FD5-2.pdf

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @devingu @lizlynch 

There is a point that I would like to have corrected in the Japanese translation.

Dereference is translated as 逆参照, but to a Japanese citizen developer it is likely to mean exactly the opposite.

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10107396?sjid=15856874883292041194-AP&hl=ja

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10107396?sjid=15856874883292041194-AP&hl=en

In Wikipedia, the page is created as 間接参照, and as a Japanese citizen developer, I think this word is better suited to explain dereference.

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%96%93%E6%8E%A5%E5%8F%82%E7%85%A7

There are other minor points to be pointed out, but since Dereference is a very important feature for AppSheet, I hope that they will be corrected.

Also, Dereference list is translated as 逆参照リスト. I don't feel any discrepancy in this translation.

@Koichi_Tsuji 
@Kirk_Masden 
@イルカのえっちゃん 
@TeeSee1 
@Hayato_Ito 
@okutani_hayato 

Dereference が逆参照として翻訳されており、市民開発者向けのプラットフォーム用語としては違和感を感じたため上記のようにコメントさせていただきました。
これはあくまで私の意見ですが、日本語に慣れているApp Creatorの皆さんのご意見もお聞かせいただければ嬉しいです😃

[devingu]

Really appreciate the feedback Takuya. Liz and I will be working together on this to make changes!

[Kirk_Masden]

Actually, even though I'm a native speaker of English, I've found the word "dereference" to be difficult to understand and even now I'm not sure I understand it completely.  I've been using an AI platform called "Claude" lately so I thought I'd ask it about the Japanese translation.  One translation it came up with was リンク先データ取得, which literally means "getting data from the point linked to" and is very easy to understand in Japanese.  For your reference here's my conversation with Claude:

Me

DereferenceというのはAppSheetの用語ですが、適切な日本語訳が必要です。お考えありませんか？

Claude

AppSheetの用語としての "Dereference" を日本語に翻訳する際は、文脈に応じていくつかの選択肢が考えられます。

1. 参照解決 (さんしょうかいけつ) - プログラミングの文脈で一般的に使われる用語で、ポインタや参照が指し示すデータの実体を取得することを意味します。

2. 参照展開 (さんしょうてんかい) - 参照されているデータを展開して実際のデータに置き換えるという意味合いを強調する訳語です。

3. 参照データ取得 (さんしょうデータしゅとく) - 参照を辿ってデータを取得するという行為を直接的に表現した訳語です。

4. リンク先データ取得 (リンクさきデータしゅとく) - AppSheetでは、テーブル間のリレーションシップを参照リンクで表現することが多いため、そのニュアンスを反映した訳語といえます。

これらの選択肢の中でも、文脈に合わせて最もふさわしい訳語を選ぶことが大切です。一般的には「参照解決」が最もよく使われる用語ですが、AppSheetの文脈では「参照展開」や「リンク先データ取得」なども適切な場合があるでしょう。

Me

「リンク先データ取得」は大変わかりやすいと思いますね。ところで「逆参照リスト」という訳もあるようです。これだけ訳が多いということは、IT業界におけるdereferenceの日本語訳について定説がないということでしょうか。

Claude

ご指摘の通り、「逆参照リスト」という訳も使われることがあります。この訳語は、参照元から参照先へたどるのではなく、参照先から参照元のリストを取得するという意味合いを持っています。

IT業界において、"dereference" の日本語訳に定説がないのは事実です。その理由として以下のようなことが考えられます。

1. 文脈による意味の違い - "dereference" は、プログラミング言語、データベース、ユーザーインターフェースなど、様々な文脈で使用されます。そのため、文脈によって最適な訳語が異なることがあります。

2. 日本語の言葉選びの難しさ - 英語の "dereference" が持つ意味合いを日本語で的確に表現するのは難しく、訳語選びに悩むことが多いです。

3. 企業や組織による用語の違い - IT企業や組織によって、独自の用語集を持っていることがあり、"dereference" の訳語もその影響を受けます。

4. 日本語訳の定着の難しさ - 新しい技術やコンセプトが次々と登場するIT業界では、英語の専門用語をそのまま使うことも多く、日本語訳が定着しにくい面があります。

このような理由から、"dereference" の日本語訳は文脈や組織によって異なることが多く、定説がないのが現状です。重要なのは、その文脈でわかりやすく、的確な意味を伝えられる訳語を選ぶことだと思います。

[takuya_miyai]

@Kirk_Masden 

マスデン先生、コメントありがとうございました。
先生でも"Dereference"の意味を理解することが難しいことを知り、この単語は翻訳することが難しい部分なのだと感じました。

リンク先データ取得も日本人にとってとても分かりやすい意味になっていますね。
そして、この品質の高い回答を出力する Claude、まだ利用したことがなかったのですが、私も利用してみることにしました🤗
新しいサービスの知識の紹介もありがとうございました。

[イルカのえっちゃん]

【Japanese】
メンション頂き、ありがとうございます！
宮井さんに完全に同意します。

実は、これまでも”Dereference”が翻訳機能で"逆参照"と日本語訳されている事に、ものすごく違和感を感じていました。
日本語的には、言葉の意味と実行している内容が一致していないように思っていたからです。

しかし、今日、宮井さんが送ってくれたWikipediaの"間接参照"という表現を見て、とても納得がいきました。

これまでは、”Dereference”が"逆参照"と訳されているのを見て、
「そういうものなのかなー」と無理やり受け入れていましたが、これは確かに"間接参照"と訳されるべきだと思います。

PS.
私は日本人向けにAppsheetに関するYoutubeを発信していますが、
過去の動画で”Dereference”を"逆参照"という言葉で説明してきました。
本件が修正されたら、自身のチャンネルでも訂正動画をアップしようと思います😅

【English】
Thank you for your mentions!
I completely agree with Miyai-san.

In fact, I have always felt very uncomfortable with the Japanese translation of "Dereference" as "逆参照" in the translation function.
In Japanese, the meaning of the word and what is being done do not seem to match.

However, when I looked at the expression "間接参照" in Wikipedia, which Mr Miyai sent me today, it made a lot of sense.

Until now, I had seen "Dereference" translated as "逆参照",
I had been forced to accept it as "that's the way it is", but I think it should be translated as "間接参照".

PS.
I have been doing a Youtube video on Appsheet for the Japanese,
In the past, I have used the term "逆参照" for "Dereference" in my videos.
I will upload a corrected video on my channel when the matter is corrected. 😅.

[takuya_miyai]

@イルカのえっちゃん 

詳細な補足、ありがとうございます！
他の日本語ユーザが同じ感想を持っていることは、AppSheetチームにとっても重要な情報だったと思います。
これからもよろしくお願いいたします🤗

[lizlynch]

@takuya_miyai - We have implemented your suggestion to replace the translation for the term "dereference"! Thank you for this suggestion! Please let us know if you notice any additional issues. 

FYI: @devingu 

[devingu]

@takuya_miyai thanks a lot for your suggestion!!! 

[takuya_miyai]

@devingu @lizlynch

Thanks for responding.
Thanks for validating my word choice.🤗

Let me just point out one thing.
About Dereference-list, this page is translated as "リストの間接参照". However, the original "逆参照リスト" is easier to understand.

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10107396?hl=ja&sjid=307254811075850023-AP#dereference-a-l...

The Dereference-list page has not been changed yet, but it is clear as it is.

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/11618586?sjid=14164644826589091840-AP

Sorry for the detail.
Please understand that although the word "Dereference" is the same, Japanese users may perceive it differently due to the difference in nuance between Japanese and English.

CONCLUSIONS.

I would like to have the following addressed

Revert "間接参照リスト" and "リストの間接参照" on this following page back to their original "逆参照リスト".

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/10107396?hl=ja&sjid=307254811075850023-AP#dereference-a-l...

The following pages will not be changed.

https://support.google.com/appsheet/answer/11618586?sjid=14164644826589091840-AP

[イルカのえっちゃん]

【Japanese】
宮井さんに同意します。
私も同じ事を思っていました。
基本的に以下のように考えて頂ければと思います。

・子テーブルから親テーブルへの参照 ⇒ ”間接参照”
・親テーブルから子テーブルへの参照 ⇒ "逆参照リスト"

【English】
I agree with Mr Miyai.
I had the same thought.
Basically, I hope you can think of it as follows.

・Reference from child table to parent table => "間接参照"
・References from the parent table to the child table => "逆参照リスト"

[lizlynch]

@takuya_miyai Thank you for the additional clarity! I've passed this request on to the translation team. Appreciate it!

[SkrOYC]

---

@takuya_miyai wrote:

please forgive me for giving feedback to AppSheet for Japanese users for a little while.🙏

---

Nothing to forgive buddy, you are a strong voice aside @Koichi_Tsuji for japanese creators so we would never want you to stop giving feedback, be it this new japanese help site or the platform in general 

[takuya_miyai]

Thank you. @SkrOYC 

I will always respect your work in providing non-English end-user assistance as well as ours.

I think it is important for end users to have a good reference in their native language, so I hope your customer's language manuals will be enhanced soon.

[lizlynch]

@takuya_miyai - Your additional suggestion for dereference list has been implemented! Please let us know if you have any additional feedback. Thank you again for your assistance in making sure the translation is meaningful and effective.

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @lizlynch 

Thank you for responding to my detailed points.
I have checked the corrections and think they are fine.

I think this fix makes dereference and dereference-list very intuitive for Japanese!😃

If there is anything else that needs to be corrected, I will provide feedback.

FYI
@イルカのえっちゃん 

[lizlynch]

@takuya_miyai - Really appreciate your feedback!
@SkrOYC - We do hope to provide additional language translations in the future. Appreciate your vote for Spanish! 🙂

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @devingu @lizlynch 

When Contact Support is selected while using Japanese Help, the user is redirected to the Help top page.
However, when I change to the English display, I am normally redirected to the Contact Us page.
Please check the following gif image.

Can you please change it so that I can go to the Contact Us page even if I am using Japanese Help?

@Koichi_Tsuji 
@イルカのえっちゃん 

[devingu]

Hey Takuya! Thanks for bringing this up to us. It's currently WAI as we do offer 1:1 English support (Chat/Email) while Japanese help center currently doesn't offer 1:1 Japanese support (Chat/Email); otherwise, it should've redirected to you Contact Us page for Japanese chat/email, which currently doesn't exist. 

[takuya_miyai]

Hi @devingu 

What I am requesting is not a problem with the AppSheet help service, but with the AppSheet Editor.

I believe that no matter what language the user is referencing the AppSheet help in, if we select Contact support in the AppSheet Editor, we should see the Contact Us page.

I understand that there is currently no Contact Us page or service for Japan, so as long as it takes the user to the normal English version of the Contact Us page, there is no problem.

To share my experience specifically, I selected Contact support from the AppSheet Editor.
At this point I intended to inquire in English.
But I was redirected to the Help page of AppSheet.
I felt that the Contact support function was deactivated.

I am hoping that this can be corrected because of the possibility of such misunderstandings spreading.

[devingu]

Thank Takuya! Let me review this with the product team. This issue should be fixed in the near future as we are going to launch additional support channels in Japanese 

[takuya_miyai]

@devingu 

It would be desirable for users to be redirected to the appropriate support page depending on the language they have selected.👍
I would wait for the transition page to be changed.

[takuya_miyai]

@devingu 

This problem continues.

This means that users of Japanese-language help cannot use the Contact Support menu in the AppSheet Editor.

If you need time to create a Japanese support page, please modify the page so that the English contact page appears.

[devingu]

Hey Takuya, thanks a lot for @ me again. We will resolve this issue shortly in a few weeks or so. Thanks a lot for your patience!

[Sabaedai1hotel]

Pls help me to change only button " cancel " and " save " into japanese. Thank you.

[イルカのえっちゃん]

Settings＞Localizationで実現できます

[Kirk_Masden]

This might help:

https://www.googlecloudcommunity.com/gc/Tips-Tricks/Feature-Changing-the-language-in-your-app-locali...