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Swift.....Intraday Trading Method

Method : Swift ....An intraday Trading Method

Timeframe : 5 min for Bank NF....10/15 min for others

Set Up : 30 Bars simple moving average( of close ) overlayed on the price chart....( 60
bars in case of BNF...)

Buy Set up : Prices taking out PH above the MA line.....and MA Line ticking up (
meaning MA value to be higher than previous bar MA value)

Sell Set up : PL cracking below the MA line and MA line ticking down....

No Trade : Price above MA but MA falling....and also Price below the MA line and MA
line rising....

Enrty : On all pivots...pure,aggressive,sideways,tiny ....Be careful in the range of first

bar..... Bothways trades on Gaps/steep rise earlier days

Exits...Pivots in opposite direction,previous support/resistances,EOM bars,

Hammers,shooting stars in larger Timeframe of 30 min....

Adds : On all types of pivots......Initial + 1 adds normally...Initial + 2 adds in

exceptionally strong trending market in downtrends....

Filters : Small filter of 5 points for BNF,1 point for Tata Motors....

All usual ambush techniques apply here as well......

Smart_trade
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For Exit : We use any type of pivot in respective TF chart to entry as we are in
right side of the trend but we need a pure pivot in same TF charts in opposite
direction to exit our positions, rest all criteria should be considered from 30min
chart.

If we are long and we get a pure PL break on same timeframe,then we get out of
long position. We wont use aggressive pivots folowed by small bullish bar..but
aggressive pivots followed by strong bullish bars or sideways and breakouts and
after all this positive action if aggressive PL is cracked we will liquidate the long
position on aggressive pivots also....in other words we reruire strong evidence to
liquidate on aggressive pivots but pure pivots we always respect ( unless these are
tiny inside the belly type pure pivots)

This is the first method where we have used a MA for trade set up as many find it
difficult to amalgamate the higher timeframe for set up. MA overlayed on the price chart
makes the process simpler.

SMA line and its slope takes care of higher timeframe ( 30 min ) alignment........no need
to look at 30 min except for booking profits on EOM bars,reversal bars etc.

Avoid taking the trade where SMA line is touching the bar. Suppose price is trading
below the SMA line and a PL is made and in this PL, the bar which is making the PL is
touching the SMA line - then avoid going short below this bar. Wait for another PL
which is clear of this line or wait for another red bar which is clear of this SMA line
and go short below that bar.

Please back test this you will see this way we avoid many false starts.

Principally if the bar is touching the SMA line means it has no direction and is still in
sideways so we wait for a clear bar or a pivot away from this SMA line to take a position.

When checking out this method on charts, as the SMA lines are getting flatter we are
getting few false trades.
I don't know how to define that as a rule so that we can use it. The slope of a SMA is
more of a chicken/egg problem. Talking of the chicken/egg problem, another one is how
many new tweaks and subrules we add to a system till it stops being simple . . .

When SMA is touching the bar and when SMA is flat, market is either non trending or in
the process of change of trend direction ....will keep this point in mind when we introduce
more refinements to the method to make it better...

Intraday trades are taken in the direction of higher tf. if higher tf give reversal
before small tf,no problem should be there ,follow htf.
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We use any type of pivot in respective TF chart to entry as we are in right side of the
trend but we need a pure pivot in same TF charts in opp direction to exit our positions,
rest all criteria should be considered from 30min chart.

On gap day we take trades in both directions till the trend is established.

A strong first bar or two then 2-3 sideways bars and then breakout this pattern is
associated with reversal of the trend. You can see this pattern on many days.

If the SMA line is sloping up/down, we can take trades on pivot cross even when the
line is touching the bars that make pivots. When the SMA line is visibly flat, it is
better to avoid the trades.

We take entries on pivot touching the MA as long as MA is sloping. We have not

introduced any tweaks to this basic and very good method yet. The main aim is - it should
be simple to follow.

GAP days we take both ways trades provided other conditions are met. The reason being
GAP is created due to emotions out of expectations. If it is GAP UP and price still
breaks pivot low then it is against expectations of those who created the gap and
hence we might get nice move on other side as these guys need to get out which adds
fuel to the move.

WRB rules supreme in all forms of ambush trades or for that matter any method.
We need strong clues to go against WRB close.

After a WRB ....we will generally see a flag type movement where small tiny pivots are
made/broken. This happens due to weak hands getting out of their positions and booking
profits ...these tiny pivots movement will generally not go above 50-55 % of the
WRB....avoid getting out on these tiny pivots.

In Intraday we do not want to give profit that WRB offers. So if the bar after WRB
shows any weakness then we book profit at the close of that next bar.
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Reversal bar

EOM bar

EOM= End of the Move.(book some profits thr).

EOM bar is a wide bar with high volume and will close almost at extreme end. It is not
the break out / break down bar.
----
EOM bar is high volume bar which comes after a directional move and closes strong with
very little wick or tail.

14/07/2010 09:49 <trader31339> dhami, how do u find EOM , end of move ? can u plz
help me
14/07/2010 09:52 <ks dhami> i think wrbs closing at the extreme end. i am not sure.
ithink so. better to confirm from seniors
14/07/2010 09:54 <trader31339> dhami, on many occasions i see EOM , reversal etc but
did not find any post in room..further rthere was some pattern in april discussed in room
which is for level 2 i dont rememebr but sh bar or something like that
14/07/2010 09:55 <Smart_trade> yes dhami/T31...it is a large bar with very high
volume,closing at the top( in case of bullish bar ) and also it becomes EOM bar in various
timeframes like 5/15/30 min etc
14/07/2010 09:57 <trader31339> ST, it is large bar and not need to be WRB ?
14/07/2010 10:00 <Revati> EOM is WRB with minor to none tails after up/down move
14/07/2010 10:01 <Smart_trade> large bars...not the normal big bars....but not
necessarily WRB everytime
14/07/2010 10:02 <Smart_trade> large volume is important too........
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EOM bar is a bar with strong close and high volume compared to previous bars.
1. It comes after a series of bars (UP or DOWN) and
2. Breakout bar is not a EOM bar.
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Classroom archives

Swift Intraday Method-15/08/10

<Smart_trade> Swift is a method which eliminates need for amalgamation with higher
TF which many find difficult.
But swift incorporates 60/30 SMA so that all trades are aligned to the higher TF trend
visually
Before introducing swift we carried out backtests on number of scrips...and they were
positive...Priyank will spk more on that
<Revati> Yes, amalgamation is taken care of by moving average so that we dont have to
look at multiple time frame charts
<priyank> yes ST
<Smart_trade> Now Revati will take over for method and later Priyank ....
<Smart_trade> All yours Revati....carry on
<Revati> Thanks Da...Lets start with all the rules
As everyone knows its and intraday trading system
Trades based on 5 min and 10/15 min timeframe charts with 30/60 period simple moving
average of price
We use 5 min for Bank nifty and 10 minutes for stocks
For 5 min charts we use 60 SMA and for 10 mins it is 30 SMA
So setup is - 30 Bars simple moving average( of close ) overlayed on the price chart....(
60 bars in case of BNF...)
Now lets move on to define the method to take trades
For BUY - Price should be breaking a PH above the MA line and MA line should be
ticking up
ticking up means current bar MA value must be higher than the previous bar
For sell its the other way round
we need a PL break below MA line and MA has to be ticking or sloping down
This is the basic setup
Now rules allow one to take trades on all types of pivots
provided the setup is there
so one can use aggressive and/or clear pivots to enter trades
if you check the model threads we found out that BNF works nice with all types of
pivots and stocks that we backtested worked well for clear pivots
it does not mean that you cant take aggressive pivot entries in stocks
but above applies to the system in its current form after the backtesting
But for every trade basic setup must apply
that it for long MA has to be ticking up and vice versa
if price is above MA and MA is ticking down - then no longs
similarly price is below MA, but it is ticking UP then no SHORTs
One exception to the above rule is GAP Day
We take trades in both direction on GAP day till clear trend is defined
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or established

Now I am assuming here that everyone knows what clear trend means
Up Trend - Subsequent Higher PH and PL define an UPTREND

<gsri> Can you elaborate more on clear trend

<Revati> and susbsequent lower PH and PL define down trend
<Smart_trade> here clear uptrend means series of higher tops and bottoms
<Revati> these pivots have to be clear pivots for trend to be defined
<Revati> Yes thanks DA
<uthuman> on which tmf?
<Revati> Dont use aggressive pivots to identify the trend
<Revati> For stocks - its 10 min and BNF its 5 min Uthuman
<Revati> Main aim of this method is to avoid looking at multiple TFs
<Revati> which is what we use in ambush but not here
<Revati> SMA takes care of higher TF and trend has to be established on 5/10 min
<ks dhami> what time frame for nifty?
<Revati> You can use 10/15 min
<Revati> Except BNF we have tested on 10 min
<gsri> On 12 we had gap day in Bank Nf can you talk wrt this
<sharda2107> can we take any no. of trades ignoring MA.. till a clear trend is established
on gap days?
<Revati> One can backtest the results for 15 mins
<Revati> Yes we take trades till the clear trend is established ignoring the MA
direction
<Smart_trade> Posted that in model trades gsri
<Revati> gsri - we will get to it once we define the method
<Revati> You can ask queries at the end
<Smart_trade> only initial 1-2 trades are both direction...after that some trend gets
established
<Revati> On steep rise/fall earlier day then also we take trades both directions
<Revati> but the move has to be vertical or extended move over few days
<Smart_trade> all can note down their Q...we will answer all in the end
<Revati> 1 important rule to avoid lot of false of bad trades - If the opening bar is
wide ranged bar then let the range be cleared
<Sagar> you mean trend ?
<kabira> not clear here
<Revati> We will see some examples of this rule
<Revati> that will make it clear
<Smart_trade> carry on Revati....

<Revati> Filters for entry and exit - 5 points for BNF and 1 for stocks like Telco,JSW
steel
<Revati> You can change filters based on your backtesting
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<Revati> Adds - we take adds on all types of pivots

<Revati> Initial position and 1 Add normally

<Revati> 2nd add only market is in strong trend
<Revati> You can find examples of this in model threds
<Revati> Initially stick to 1 add only though
<Revati> EXITS - Pivots in opposite direction, important resisatnce or support
<Revati> EOM bars, hammers on larger TF i.e. 30 min
<Smart_trade> add less Qty than initial position if you are trading fixed qty on every
trade...if taking qty as per MM then add with lower %
<Revati> You can use 1/2 the filter value for ADDs
<Revati> that was for ADD entry
<Revati> so if initial entry filter for say telco = 1rs then for add we use 0.5
<Revati> This defines the method setup and rules for entry/add/exit
<Revati> Exit covers both the stop outs and profit booking

<Smart_trade> Can you walk them thru any days trades ? revati ?
<Revati> Yes
<Revati> Lets walk through last week of August

<Revati> 9th Aug

<Revati> on 9th price open below 30 MA
<Revati> MA is ticking down but visually flattish
<Revati> NO Gap
<Revati> so we trade only in the direction of MA
<Revati> for long we need MA to be up and price to be above MA
<Revati> till 11:30 MA was ticking down
<Revati> no longs
<Revati> We go long over 1:10 pm PH
<Revati> when MA ticked up and price was above MA
<Revati> PH was above MA
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<Revati> with stop at clear PL

<Revati> 1:40 PM PL in this case

<Revati> Price did not do much on this day and we were not stopped out
<me_raj005> why not over 12:40 bar revati?
<me_raj005> ma ticking up
<Revati> Clear PH for JSW steel Raj
<Revati> You can use aggressive pivots for entries
<Revati> but this is based on backtesting
<Smart_trade> dont take internal pivots
<Revati> We exit at the EOD or during the last bar of the day
<Revati> Yes that is in belly of 11:40 AM wide bar
<me_raj005> okey ...thanks revati, da
<me_raj005> that means not taking those belly pivots
<Revati> and its all sideways move
<priyank> as per our backtest if we are getting pivots in sideways take the higest/lowest
pivots....
<Smart_trade> in swift you should look for failures as a warning sign
<Revati> Yes thanks Priyank
<Smart_trade> yes raj....
<me_raj005> thanks priyank
<priyank> yes ST I generally put my stops below the bar which took out my pivot
but closes as a failure bar...
<me_raj005> da even failures on 10mins should be considered/
<priyank> works almost everytime
<priyank> *generally put my stops....
<me_raj005> u mean getting out priyank?
<me_raj005> ok
<priyank> backtest raj.... it depends on the stock you are trading....
<uthuman> priyank pl rephrase your words..couldn't understand
<Smart_trade> yes me too get out on failures.....early exit from bad trades
<Narahari> Frnds....pls..pls put Q&A at the end...
<me_raj005> so even exit should be taken aggressively is case of failures
<Revati> Yes these are exits that we follow in ambush as well
<kintupatel9> this means priyank your stop i s below 2.30pm in this case after it broke
ph?
<uthuman> so in this case 11:10 above entry ..where is your stop priyank?
<Cyprezz> @priyank / ST da: that means if the price retraces back below the pivot where
we went long, we will reverse below the low of the pivot bar and not wait for SL to be
taken out?
<Revati> Yes 2:30 PM KP9
<Smart_trade> yes Raj....if the trade has failed...no point in holding on to it till it hits SL
<Raja> not reverse just stop out . . .
<priyank> in this case 2:30 bar took out my pivot but closed below my entry price.... i put
my stops below 2:30 bar after closing of this bar
<priyank> no raja no reversing as we will take shorts only if MA is ticking down and a
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pivot below MA line

<Revati> Yes just Stop put and not reverse
<uthuman> oh thanks...
<ratanjain> you mentioned that ma should be ticking up for a long trade
<Cyprezz> *I meant not reverse but stopped out.. sorry..
<Revati> we put in STOPS only and no SARs
__________________
<Smart_trade> if the breakout followed by a red bar closing below the breakout....get
out below the low of that bar
<ratanjain> does that mean that if at 12:27 the avg is higher than the last bar completed at
12:20, or do we have to waith till 12:30 to let the bar close and have a confirmed uptick
of the ma? becuase the ma can cjange till the very end of the bar
<Smart_trade> it is a failure....
<kintupatel9> ST da, Revti this also applies to ambush also?
<uthuman> closing bar only RJ
<priyank> it depends on the confidence you have with your method RJ... backtest and
you will know....
<me_raj005> ok so i was missing this part...used to wait for my stop to get out
<Smart_trade> this is a situation where I use my judgement...if the pivot is much
above the MA,and MA getting flat.... I take the trade as eventually till the bar is
completed, the MA ticks up....RJ
<Revati> Yes KP9 - most of it we follow in ambush
<me_raj005> now will get out early in case of failures
<Revati> only diffference is MA for time frame amalgamation
<Smart_trade> but these will come with practice.....
<priyank> yes ST
<Smart_trade> we very rarely wait till SL is hit.....always get a better exit on failure
trades
<Revati> Yes.... request everyone to backtest with the rules and then apply them
consistently
<gsri> This is very useful info ST, many times itching to get out but applying rules too
rigidly
<Smart_trade> ok Revati...continue
<priyank> any one has done any backtesting on any stocks with this method?
<uthuman> Priyank I posted April back test charts for JSWL
<VJAY> @revati..ru trade swift with fixed scrips or make list everyday as ambush?
<Revati> fixed list
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<Revati> ok 10th Aug

<Revati> MA is ticking up on 10th aug opening
<Revati> We can take entry over previous days pivot
<me_raj005> i have done priyank with many stocks and even on getting stopped out gave
good results...just thinking if i get out early on failure then it will add more to my
greenery
<Revati> I use only current days pivots
<Revati> can go long over 9th 3:10 PH
<Revati> with stop below 9:20 bar low of 10th
<me_raj005> u mean 2:30 pivot revati
<hitesh05> yes Raj
<me_raj005> ok 3:10...but doesnt it look like a belly pivot revati?
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<Revati> Now opening bar is pivot -

<kintupatel9> Revti is it to be firstbar that broke the pivot of previous day we enter or we
enter in any bar which breks previous days pivot and ma ticking up/down in direction of
bo/bd?
<RKM3003> We have a PH same day 9.10
<Revati> if one can identify it then we can enter over 10th opening bar high
<me_raj005> but opening bar had a flat ma revati
<Revati> Yes RKM great - not sure if all understand that as a pivot
<hitesh05> am using first bar entry so fr me long over 1st bar
<Revati> Better use it for first entry
<Revati> after that we wait for today's pivots
<Revati> and then stop put below 10:20
<Revati> then price goes below MA
<Smart_trade> yes revati...
<Revati> We break PL at 12:30 but MA ticked down minutely
<RKM3003> Revati can you explain the Stop at 10.20?
<Revati> I avoided that trade because of abv reason
<Revati> 1 more thing it came back all the way down
<Revati> PL RKM
<Revati> after that price was below the MA but did not break PL
<priyank> pure pivot RKM
<me_raj005> where was ur entry for longs revati as u avoid previous days pivot?
<Smart_trade> 6 sideways bars...RKM...sideways pivot
<me_raj005> if u reffering opening bar then again its touching the ma line
<Revati> No entry for me Raj
<venba> one q
<venba> MA ticking up over previous pivot or bar?
<Revati> Raj you can use previous days pivot in that case
<Revati> MA was ticking up by that time
<kintupatel9> Bar venba
<venba> ok, bar means we read that value, visually may not not obvious
<Revati> Look at slope Raj
<me_raj005> ok that means u had no long position that day...i avoid previous days pivot
as not comfortable with that
<Revati> I mean MA slope Raj
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<Revati> 11th AUg

<Revati> MA was ticking down we short below 10:10 PL
<Revati> with stop at 11:20 PH
<Revati> Add below 11:50 PL
<Revati> and then we stop out on 1:30 PH
<Revati> One can take short at 2:30 PL if you can identify that as clear PL
<Revati> with stop above the same bar high and then exit at EOD
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<Revati> 12th Aug

<Revati> Gap down and wide range opening bar
<Revati> If you enter over/below 1st bar always then long triggers for you
<Revati> for me no long
<Revati> GAP day and MA sloping down
<Revati> so we look for both ways trade till trend is established
<Revati> But be careful in the range of first bar especially the one like on 12th
<Revati> that is avoid trades and wait till range is cleared
<venba> one query on gap?
<venba> opening gap or visual gap, particularly for cash
<Revati> Visual Gap
<venba> say we have opening with gap but by first bar tail fills the gap then not
considered as gap?
<kabira> revati : "till trend is established", can u please ellaborate...thanks
<Smart_trade> kabira it means take the long trade if PH is broken...but after a uptrend
and higher PH/PLs dont short firts PL break....
<Revati> for opening gap make sure it is not a small gap
<Revati> Just make sure the gap is not minute gap
<uthuman> On 12th what time will u decide to take the long trade?
<Revati> Long over 11:40 stop at 12:30
<Revati> Add1 over 1:30
<Revati> and close at EOD
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<Revati> 13th AUg

<Revati> Long over opening bar - 9:10 PH
<Revati> stop out below 9:50 below because of sideways pivot
<Revati> 4 bars of sideways move
<Revati> then short on 12:50 PL break
<Revati> MA was ticking down
<Revati> stop abv 1:50 PH
<Revati> stop out abv 2:40 PH
<Revati> so that covers a week's trades
<anup> is 11 am not PH?
<Revati> We are back in a range anup
<Revati> wait for it to be cleared
<Smart_trade> once we finish 13 Aug...we can take Q on method and trades....then we go
to Priyank for a wonderful backtest session
<Smart_trade> ok now we will take Q on method
<gsri> I still have doubts about trading on Gap days till trend is established
<Smart_trade> short Q please...we need more time for priyank's session
<kintupatel9> Revti in 13th short trade ma strted tiking down in the bar it breaks how can
we enter there?it was not ticking down in earlier bar
<hitesh05> my question is how to figure out imp sup/res fr exits
<Smart_trade> Ok gsri...I will explain
<anup> @Revati: plz explain "in the range"
<hitesh05> how much we should exit when we hit sup/res or we wait fr reversal to
form near it
<Revati> Wait we will go 1 by 1
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<Smart_trade> suppose we get a down side gap....and we get a PH break.....we take a

long trade.....
<Smart_trade> we have uptrend...and a PL is cracked....
<kumudhan> only entry we will have filter or for exit too?
<Revati> for exit also Kumudhan
<Smart_trade> we wont short...as the established trend is up
<gsri> On a gap day, lets say mov avg is down but we have uptrend in 10 min
frame.And then if a piv low breaks , No short trade even if Mov Avg is still Down ??
<Smart_trade> for short, we need either reversal bar on 30 min TF, or lower tops/
bottoms in 10 min ....
<Smart_trade> on gap days initial trades do not consider MA....only for initial
trades...later on after about 1-1.5 hrs MA catches up
<kumudhan> st a doubt in bnf posted by you.on 29/7 you covered 50percent 2
times..why?
<Smart_trade> later on....as per trend and MA
<Smart_trade> because on gap days MA gets distorted in initial few hrs
<kabira> My Query :st da ;(gap + WRB at open & trend estabishing ) --28/07/2010 BnF
<kintupatel9> Revti in 13th short trade ma strted tiking down in the bar it breaks how can
we enter there?it was not ticking down in earlier bar, or its ambush mix decision
<Smart_trade> if you had put all these Q in BNF swift...it would get answered there
itself.....
<Revati> Da has already answered this Kintu
<Revati> Price was clearly below MA
<Smart_trade> we can handle long Q only in thread as it requires explaining, charts etc
<kabira> "1 important rule to avoid lot of false of bad trades - If the opening bar is wide
ranged bar then let the range be cleared"
<kabira> please ellaborate BnF 28/07/2010
<Smart_trade> dont take pivots in the belly of the large opening bar...they mostly
mislead
<Revati> Yes Kabira - that is because price lingering in range of wide bar means stock is
sideways
<Smart_trade> ok all long Q put in BNF swift thread...will answer there....
<kabira> but we took short still in belly of WRB and MA still flatish
<Revati> Viren that was because of opening bar range
<Smart_trade> Here it will go on for next 2 hrs....
<Revati> Pivots marked by you are correct but price was back in the range of opening
bar
<Viren> @Revati: Thanx.
<Revati> I will answer this in thread as well for more clarity
<sharda2107> @Smart_trade: should it be large opening bar only or pivots in belly of
any large bar to be ignored?
<Revati> Can we move on to backtesting??
<sharda2107> da plz explain..
<Smart_trade> any short querry ?
<BHASKAR> 1 q st da: if the breakout followed by a red bar closing below the
breakout....get out below the low of that ba (BOF), is it applicable to BDF as well??
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<Smart_trade> both sharda....more so in opening bar....

<Smart_trade> yes bhaskar
<BHASKAR> entry over previous days pivot (revati), is it only if previous day is a
sideways bar day??
<Smart_trade> failures are in fact great reversal trades
<BHASKAR> yes da, had great results in ambush

<Smart_trade> wait for Priyank's session...it will be really good...gsri....

<Smart_trade> ok ...Priyank you start now...
<priyank> IMO take rules of any method as a tool to trade.... backtest it hard... with
are the options in you mind and after that only start trading it...
<priyank> it will increase your confidence and trust for your method....
<priyank> Teclo I had backtested with taking entries only over pure pivot and
avoiding pivots touching MA line(not in rule)...
<priyank> results were amazing....
<priyank> I use bar replay method of Ami as at EOD its totally diffrent secnario
<priyank> any one want to share their backtest results?
<priyank> telco I dont take 1st bar as a pivot and if price opens within the range of last
day's last bar..... I take pivots of last day... else not
<priyank> also I do it as per MM... say if our capital is 1Lakh I only risk (including stop
diff, Brokerage and slippage) 1% of it
<priyank> for the month of july we had a return of aprox 20%, June it was 25% may it
was whopping 66%
<priyank> april 58%, march 28% feb and Jan was a crappy month but still a return of
20% was there...
<priyank> any questions any one?
<Raja> priyank did you do look at things like winning/losing trades ina row . . . etc
<Smart_trade> all clear how to decide the qty to be taken on each trade depending on
MM ?
<gsri> Priyank on telco it is working very well. But I tries checking it with other scrips to
see how robust , but huge variations in the same month
<Smart_trade> on average we get 65-70 % winning trades Raja....
<priyank> no raja...
<Raja> yes MM important . . .
<priyank> which scrip gsri...
<hitesh05> the best way to backtest is try out with sideway month
<gsri> I checked with Axis bank, DLF
<Smart_trade> so trade only those stocks which work well with pivots.....like BNF,
Telco...
<priyank> yes ST....
<Raja> @gsri, are you sure you are taking all the trades correctly?
<Smart_trade> so trade Telco gsri...we are interested in making returns....the scrip we use
to trade is immaterial
<hitesh05> yes Da and the loosing trades r almost BE trades
<Raja> have you checked the performance by including the rules priyank outlined above
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...
<venba> yes Da, also less liquid scrips eat the profits with slippage
<gsri> No Raja all Random trades
<priyank> which month was worst gsri with DLF... I will backtest and will post results...
<priyank> yes venba... very true...
<Raja> Venba Axis /Dlf are both seem to liquid so no issue there . . .
<gsri> No priyank just trying to say that it is very robust on Telco but results are varying
widely with others
<priyank> that is the worst part... I am backtesting with keeping a slippage of Rs. 1....
that is very imp
<Raja> random trades ??? not getting that, u have concluded on basis of random trades
???
<priyank> hitesh trade which you find good and stop looking at which is not good.....
<venba> Priyank, for back testing what speed setting to use optimally, takes a lot of time
<Smart_trade> some stocks dont respect pivots well....so take an easy way to make
money...dont trade them...trade others
<priyank> thats what I am asking GSRI tell me the month and I will backtest and see....
<hitesh05> Priyank if ur sl order is @ 950 then what is ur trade price with slippage?
<hitesh05> fr telco that is
<Raja> anyway . . . trade with what you are confident . . .
<Smart_trade> trade price will depend on chart point hitesh
<hitesh05> mine comes under 950.15 to 25
<priyank> hitesh its around 949.5 or 6 mostly...
<hitesh05> Yes Da I want to know about slippage
<hitesh05> OK thanks
<Revati> Hitesh - can you post your backtest of JSW in thread
<Smart_trade> BNF it works beautifully...now we have 25 qty lot...so BNF is also
tradeable for most

<hitesh05> Revati I have backtested in Telco

<hitesh05> but looking at jsw .......am sure it's not as good as telco
<hitesh05> with Telco risk .5% per trade average % return is 10% PM
<RKM3003> JSW is still not out of sideways, Hitesh
<venba> yes RKM, any stock that's in sideways better to avoid, until it clears up
<hitesh05> true RKM but many times it runs wildly that I observed ...... not telling that
it's not profitable
<Revati> Yes thats correct
<RKM3003> Has been in a steady but gradual decline for over a month
<Smart_trade> some one can try backtest on sesa....
<Revati> SO everyone please backtest on your own with all rules fixed
<venba> still we watch so that we can catch while we are active
<GVRS> Venba, by the time we find that the stock is in sideways on daily, we would
have traded it for a few days.
<RKM3003> ....and we're waiting for it to break out
<venba> that's right, when a stock's trending we get more profits
<Smart_trade> with backtest you will know what scrips and kind of trades you are
 19

comfortable with....
<Revati> Yes GV....correct
<Smart_trade> avoid trades which you are not at ease...as in real time you will most
likely mess up there
<Revati> During market hours just execute the trades as per rules that you
backtested
<Revati> whenever you are doubtful or not comfiortable then find out if is it due to
emotions or not per rules
<Smart_trade> any Q on MM ?
<Revati> and tackle it accordingly
<priyank> manoj has backtested it da...
<Raja> Can I ask a question ? . . .
<hitesh05> 8 out of 10 bad trades r due to feeling of missed move
<Smart_trade> sure..ask raja
<Raja> why are we considering 10% monthly with a risk on trade @ 1% as not so good
results ?
<Revati> Yes Hitesh...very important
<Raja> its a question more to ppl who are hesitating . . .
<tryingtotrade> yes hitesh
<Revati> Who said its bad
<Smart_trade> they are good results...not even 2% in trading universe make 120 % every
year
<Revati> Bad only for someone who makes 50% + consistently
<Raja> da even with 50% of that is excellent . . .
<hitesh05> 50% PM Revati ?
<Revati> Yes very True Da
<Revati> Hitesh .... an example...
<Revati> Yes Raja ... 5% per month is also very good result
<Raja> agreed revati so I would like to know what is the expectation of the traders ???
<Smart_trade> If someone makes 50% on all his capital consistantly every
month...he would buy Bill Gates in 5 yrs time.....with Ambani coming as free
<hitesh05> 50% turns to 200% when we take 5% risk per trade of Profits
<hitesh05> Revati possible fr u
<Viren> @Raja: 10% is more than enuff. Problems are elsewhere. Initially it is not that
easy. With 10% I am more than happy.
<Raja> what are the problems viren?
<Raja> I am seeing questions from only red/blue/black where are our friends for whom
this session is focused
<RKM3003> Point, Raja
<Smart_trade> 10% calculated on straight forward trades.....with our mkt knowledge we
can increase it...but better to be conservative
anup> @Raja: can we discuss eom bar
<hitesh05> Raja they r enjoying with the money earned last week in swift
<Smart_trade> where are Q from sharda,sands,ramlaa, Laxmi and other newcomers ??
<Viren> @Raja: Backtesting and real time trading is very different. I get messed up
while trading real time. Not able to make trades as Priyank Sir. I trade and make losses in
 20

TataMot and later when checked in model trades thread I find it was an SOH day.
<Raja> Yes anup, but maybe in another session lets focus on swift now . . .
<venba> exceptionally good month for who traded per rules
<Revati> Newbees and level 1 guys please put efforts and ask queries
<Raja> ok viren its good that you are addressing this aspect . . .
<anup> @Raja: we book partial profit at eom ,thats why i ask
<GVRS> Viren, backtesting with bar replay method in ami is as good as trading live
without emotions.
<Revati> We putting in efforts to teach and guide is of very little use unless you try it out
<priyank> need to increse your confidence viren
<Raja> Viren do u have time after the trading time or u are working as in a job?
<Revati> Viren - nobody becomes expert in a day/week or for that matter in a month
<GVRS> So, back test it and as Priyank said you will get confidence.
<venba> spend lot of time reading charts and backtest
<Raja> yes anup lets cover the basics first
<Viren> I think certain intelligence level is required to make a living out of trading. And
at the moment I think I shoul try testing the method realtime before putting the real
money on it.
<Revati> We all mistakes ... the ones who take efforts to overcome them make the cut
<Viren> That intelligence is probably missing in me.
<GVRS> True Revati....
<venba> exactly Revati, everytime we address a mistake we learn a lot
<Smart_trade> trading requires one to be street smart...not intelligent
<sands> da - i seem to be loosing mostly in delayed exits.. get the entries right but often
see profits turn -ve before exiting.. can we emphasize more on specific exit rules
<GVRS> It is not the intelligence Viren, discipline and the trading without emotions
makes the difference.
<Raja> Viren I used to wrongly think that, maybe its more of practice / experiance but
not intelligence certainly . . .

<KomaL> st da I have a ques

<Smart_trade> yes komal...ask
<KomaL> 12th was a gap day then why didnt you took long in intial hrs
<Smart_trade> yes Komal.....the MA slope was too steep...wants it to stabilise
<Raja> everyone has enf of it . . . wrong expectation / haste / hesitation and the points
GVRS made . . .
<tryingtotrade> earlier when i used to loose money in day trading, i never used to check
those trades again & kept on repeating the mistakes, but once u start checking the trades
compare with the rules then can over come this phase, i m still in tht phase though
<venba> Viren, it's not abt intelligence, put away that negative thinking, put right amount
of amt learning and testing the method and execute well
<ramlaa> ST Sir reversal bars on 30 min -- can you pl explain
<Raja> if question specific to swift rules are over Revati, can we take these questions on
Exit . . .
<Revati> Yes Amit.... thats the only difference between winners and losers
 21

<Smart_trade> observed that with very steep slope, the anti slope trades are very
choppy....unless slope flattens
<Raja> maybe you can tell us about Anup's EoM question
<Viren> Thanks Raja, Revati, GVRS, Venba. This time I will put more efforts.
<tryingtotrade> komal this q was abt jsw or bnf
<Smart_trade> Yes Raamla...say you are long....and you see a bar on 30, which is a
inverted hammer...with long tail at top.....this is a warning to start thinking about
getting out
<Revati> Anup - EOM is end of move bar which comes after a sustained move - up
or down
<kabira> nice to learn many things, never backtested till now, trading started with TSF
basics only
<Smart_trade> Komal was asking for BNF
<kabira> thanks to saint and ST and all seniours
<kabira> to provide this platform for learning
<tryingtotrade> ok st da
<kabira> still a beginner
<Revati> EOM bar has to close strong at high or low and volume is big
<Smart_trade> but on 12th if long trade is taken, it is not wrong...but long trades are all
scratch trades at best till MA flattened
<tryingtotrade> st da will keep this point in mind when slope is steep
<Revati> PLease put your queries in threads if not answered here
<anup> on 12 aug bnf swift from 1 to 2 pm,which is eom barand how to judge real time
<Smart_trade> slope too steep means bearish pressure...needs time to dissipate
<Revati> Thanks Da for this tip
<RKM3003> ST, Revati and Priyank, thanks for your time and effort
<ramlaa> <Smart_trade> Yes Raamla...say you are long....and you see a bar on 30, which
is a inverted hammer...with long tail at top.....this is a waring to start thinking about
getting out
<Revati> Anup - 12:55 to 1:25 upmove without pullback
<Raja> sorry got dc'ed
<ramlaa> ST Sir any other scenario for reversal bars
<Smart_trade> ok shall we call it a day ? If no more Qs
<Revati> 1:30 bar on 30 min closed strong with volume
<KomaL> ok da
<Revati> Ramlaa - right now we track hammers only
<Revati> Yes Da.. Lets call it a day
<Smart_trade> a failure on 30 min TF, a engulfing bar on 30...etc are other examples
but hammer or shooting star is the most prominent
<ramlaa> Thanks ST Sir Revati
22
23
 24

Swift Model Trades --- BNF

Swift Trades 12-07-2010 ....BNF

50% profit booked on EOM bar...50% on low crack of a reversal candle on 15 min
 25

Originally Posted by hitesh05

Thanks Da fr the bnf swift trades ....I will also maintain excell sheet of the trades so that
we can also know the result at every month end. Da, just one question, in ambush where
do we exit at close of the 15min reversal bar and where we should exit 15min reversal
bar H/L + F.

Regards

In Swift it pays to have 5/15/30 min timeframes charts open for perspective on longer
timeframe....when you see a reversal bar on 15 min...it is a warning bell that you need to
get out of existing position as mkt likely to reverse in larger TF as well.....After that we
get out at the crack of that 15 min bar low or immediate 5 min low whichever is earlier.

Originally Posted by sharda2107

St da,

As per rule :"Exits...Pivots in opposite direction,previous support/resistances,EOM bars,

Hammers,shooting stars in larger Timeframe of 30 min...."
In 12th july trades, i could see EOM ON 5 min and 10 min tf, but not on 30 min, is it that
 26

as soon as we see EOM bar we do profit booking even on lower time frames, and exit
completely when it appears on 30 min?
Sharda,

Book some profits in any large bar closing at the extreme with high volumes even in
small timeframes ( this is not to be done in case the bar is breakout/breakdown bar
and when the move has just started...)....after EOM bar on 30 it is a good idea to trail
your profit taking stops to low of each successive bars of 5 min.

BNF Swift trades 13-07-2010

 27

BNF Swift 16-07-2010. Please note that in the 1st long trade the SMA ticked up in 9:40
bar and the long entry was triggered in 9:45 bar.
 28

BNF Swift trades 19-07-2010.

Originally Posted by Cyprezz

Hi ST Da,

One query ... as it was a GAP day we could have taken SWIFT trades both ways
irrespective of whether the price is above or below the MA. Any reasons then why we did
not SHORT our LONG EXIT (the 11:40 bar)?

Thanks,

On gap day we take trades in both directions till the trend is established. Initial trend
established was up and we need lower tops/lower bottoms of the new downtrend or MA
sloping down and prices below MA to take a fresh short trade.
 29

Originally Posted by KomaL

st da why no long later in day above pivots high formed above MA (1300,14:05 1425 all
these pivots high at around same level)
Komal,

The market had come down before sideways movement...so to take a long trade we need
clearing of the range, and mkt should trade above this range for sometime, make a PL or
some more consolidation....it cleared the range and dipped back into the range indicating
failure.

If before the consolidation mkt had come from the low, I would have certainly taken long
trade as the logical way to go was up....but want some more evidence in this case as the
move came from top.....
 30

BNF Swift 20-07-2010

Originally Posted by Viren

ST Sir,
Why did we short the low of 1st bar??? It was a gap day and we can take trades in both
directions but 1st bar was not a PL.

Mkt opened with gap...then 5 bars sideways in the range of 1st bar....then the sideways
low ( which is a low of 1st bar ) is cracked....go short ...
 31

BNF Swift trades 21-07-2010

 32

Swift...BNF...22-07-2010

Originally Posted by gsri

ST

22/july BNF model trade shows add at dotted line.

Normally we use pivots formed during current day for add isn't it ?
The Pivot used for add is actually SAR for 30 flow . Is that a reason to add there ? or is it
because of 5 min WRB formed at 1420 . Can I know the reason for the add. I missed the
add today in BNF .
Steep rise with no pivots in between, used a major high to add....
 33

BNF swift trades.... 23-07-2010

It was a steep rise earlier day so taken trades in both direction.

 34

BNF Swift 26-07-2010

 35

BNF swift 27-07-2010

Originally Posted by Sudhir Gupta

Pl advice basis of SL on first short trade

Breakdown failure and an aggressive PH (10:55 bar ) taken out...

 36

BNF Swift 28-07-2010

 37

30 min charts for 28-07-2010

Swift BNF 29-07-2010

 38

Swift BNF 30-07-2010

 39

BNF Swift 02-08-2010

 40

BNF Swift 03-08-2010

Swift...BNF..04-08-2010
 41

BNF swift....05-08-2010
 42

BNF Swift 06-08-2010

 43

BNF Swift 09-08-2010

 44

Please see that market was in sideways trend and no durable trend was seen...every move
was failing at supports/resistances and we had to be swift to cover on
breakout/breakdown failures.
 45

BNF Swift...11-08-2010
 46

BNF Swift 12-08-2010

 47

BNF Swift...13-08-2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakshmi19
ST Da pls explain why you took the long trade over 1st bar high?

Lakshmi

Lakshmi ,

The SMA was pointing up and 1st bar high is a pivot if you consider earlier days last bar,
that days first bar and second bar so took a long entry there. Also first 2 bars highs form a
sideways pivot, and if the highs taken out, we can go long.

If you find it difficult to understand these, stick to pure pivots and you may scip this trade
taken by me.
 48

Posting today's trades in Bank NF on Swift Method.

No long trades initially as we never pivoted and traded in upper half of days range till
that time....

Just 2 Trades ... 1st trade short with 2 adds......huge profit....2nd trade short...small loss

Overall a hugely profitable day......

 49

BNF swift trades of 18-02-2010. First two trades mildly profitable.....3rd trade big
profits... in all a profitable day....

Red bold line shows short trades, red dotted line shows adds....black line for profit taking
points.....
 50

BNF swift trades on 07-03-2011.

When the market is trending down in the earlier part of the day....I wait for going long till
it forms a pivot in upper 50% in the days range till that time and will go long above that
pivot.....this saves us from going long in corrective/ sideways moves...but as a trade-off in
case of sudden reversal our entry in long trade is delayed.....but this delay I find is much
better than getting some whipsaws when we buy in the lower half of the range and market
yet to demonstrate its strength by clearing atleast 50% of the range........
 51

Originally Posted by gsri

ST

I had a doubt in Bank NF model trade on 12 th Aug.

Based on today's chat session it is looking clearer .

However please reconfirm on the doubt posted in the attached chart

Thanks

This being a gap day the long trade at place shown by you is perfectly valid trade. It is
my experience that when the SMA is dropping at very steep angle, the long trades are not
very stable and the market hits the stops in sudden drops till it spends some time , the
bearish energy is dissipated ,SMA becomes flattish, then we have durable moves.

The short trade was not taken because the reversal to long was clear in first few bars.Also
if you see the locarion where PL was broken , it is in upper half of the day's range market
made till that time...so short trade to be avoided...we were in reversal mode and we took
the long trade once SMA stabilised. The correct place to go long was when the market
made a PH above SMA and it was taken out...by that time SMA became flat...and then
we had a durable upmove.

So the earlier long trade was ok....short not correct.

Quote:
 52

Originally Posted by gsri

Dear ST

Thanks for the reply to my post. Need further clarity on not taking short.

As per existing method, On gap days , we can take trade in both directions.

Explanation for not taking long is understood , and may be i can incorporate as a simple
rule ---On gap days --- "When avg is steeply up or down, wait for avg to flatten before
initiating trade".

Explanation for not taking short trade is going over my head.

For all you know Bank Nf could have , filled the gap made on 12th and crashed down
also, and with 30 min flow also short at that time,and with prospects of daily pivot
(10351) breakin down, on what basis do we ignore the short. ?

Can we say --- " Gap day, Mov avg down, but uptrend in 5 min -- Dont short the first
pivot break down, wait for trend to reemerge in the form of lower high , lower low to
form before shorting " to kind of standardise it ?

I am trading swift on Tata mot, Bank NF , Dlf and Jsw and like the method so much. Just
want to fix the rules more clearly .

Thanks for your time and effort

If you are not able to see the merits of not shorting when the mkt is in upper half of the
price range, then you may follow the rule that on gap days once an uptrend is
eastablished, for shorting we need a formation of downtrend in the form of lower
tops/lower bottoms....this will keep you out of many false trades.
 53

Swift Model Trades - Tata Motors

In this trade, keeping stop loss at clear pivots.

 54

Tata Motors Swift trades 14-07-2010.....

Swift Tata motors 15-07-2010

 55

Originally Posted by kuldeep72

Hi Priyank / Da,

Can we initiate long in the first bar itself, as there was no gap while opening / it broke
previous PH over MA / as well the MA was ticking up.

B Regards,
Kuldeep.
Yes you can....only problem in 1st bar entry is that one needs to be really fast in entry .
Also sometimes stops are bit far away so RR is not very favourable.

Originally Posted by gsri

ST
Referring to tata motors swift trade on 16 th in model trade-
Carrying long with 1 add in the morning and then -
1.10 bar low of 826.55 was a piv 1n 10 min TF. We didn't exit below this during
formation of 1.40 / 1.50 bar where low is 824.65 ?? in model trade . Any specific reason
?
GSRI,

we don't exit with every agg pivot in intraday swift , as said by ST Da, we need a strong
bullish/bearish bar and market indicated strong move with agg pivot then only we exit all
with a agg pivot, small agg pivot within a strong bar or sideway move with low volume,
we do nothing and our stops is pure pivot.in this case 1.10 bar is not a case of exit our
positions.
 56

Originally Posted by hitesh05

GSRI,

we don't exit with every agg pivot in intraday swift , as said by ST Da, we need a strong
bullish/bearish bar and market indicated strong move with agg pivot then only we exit all
with a agg pivot, small agg pivot within a strong bar or sideway move with low volume,
we do nothing and our stops is pure pivot.in this case 1.10 bar is not a case of exit our
positions.
In my view..we should have exited below 1.10 PL ( if not full at least 1/2 or 2/3) as 13.30
was a strong reversal ( Failure bar) bar on all TF with high volume. Also if we see 12.30,
13.00, and 13.30 bars ( 30 min), they are long upper tail bars with limp up move so
indicating weakness in up move.

Due to these reason, we should have exited there. My views.

 57

Originally Posted by KomaL

hello priyank
no profit booking at 1340 high
Komal,
Only taking pure pivots for entries and exits.
58
 59

Originally Posted by Manojkch26

Da / Priyank.. one doubt for Swift trades. Many time we see sudden reversal with vertical
move but MA remains flat ( though seeing the vertical move afterward it look obvious
that we should have taken trade over latest pivot) but as per the method we take trade
only after seeing visual MA slope.

Posting charts below to make it more clear...

 60

Manoj,

SMA by its construction takes time to change direction but it is purposely put in swift to
introduce delay and avoid whipsaws in small pivot breaks against the slope of MA...but
in strong reversals we need to see that in case of signal to go long the pivots are
made above MA,the MA line is ticking up ( visual slope change will come much
later) and that the mkt has come up a good distance when it is breaking the pivot (
or to ensure that you are not taking a trade on small tiny pivot breaks against the
MA direction.

You may catch a few entries late...but the MA slope concept avoids several false entries
and whipsaws in small range sideways market. If we see the bare minimum conditions
mentioned above, most of the breakouts we should be able to catch.
61
62
63
64
65
66
 67

1st bar range only if none of the bar has broken it till 11:30. Then it may be a sideways
day and we should be cautious while taking any trade inside that range. But here it was
broken by 9:30 bar. So it was a valid short below 12 Noon bar. Backtest it and you will
know more about it.

For example look at 19th July Telco charts. SOH day. Now look at 29th July Telco charts
10 mins. 1st bar a big bar. But 10:20 bar breaks this range.... so longs above 12:10 bar
which was inside 1st bar range. If this 10:20 bar would had not broken this range we
would had waited for a pivot to form above that 1st bar to take longs.

Hope its clear now. If any confusions please ask.

68
 69

Swift Model Trades - JSW Steel

12 July 2010

SOH day today - What a day to begin with.

In my chart MA was flat most of the time and there was no GAP. MA ticked down
minutely in 12:10 bar but then no PL crack after that.
If your chart shows gap then we take trades as per GAP rules.

13 July 2010
 70

14 July 2010

15 July 2010
 71

19 July 2010

20 July 2010
 72

21 July 2010

22 July 2010
 73

23rd July

Gap day today

1. Short on clear pivot low break.

2. MA sloping up, so long on pivot above MA
3. Short on pivot below MA ticking down.

26 July

MA was sloping down throughout the day, so short, add and exit.
 74

27 July

MA sloping down, so short on clear pivot break, add on aggressive pivot and stop out on
clear PH. No second short because no clear PL.

28th July

No trades day - no clear pivot breaks when ma started sloping down. One could have
taken aggressive short below 1:10 PL or 9:40 low and closed at the end.
 75

29th July

Short on clear PL break, add on aggressive PL. Booked 1/2 on 3:15 close of 15 min bar -
EOM bar with volume and rest 1/2 at EOD.

30th July
 76

02 Aug

SOH day - No Trades day

Gap UP and opening bar with wide range and big tails on both sides. As per rule we want
to avoid trades in the 1st bar range like today. PH was broken, but it was quite within the
range and we need a evidence that range is going to be broken.

Now on the lighter side - We started model trades for July on 12th and it was SOH day
(1st day of July - JSW Swift) and 1st day of August is also SOH day ... and we know how
good July was...sooooo.....
 77

03rd Aug

Gap day - so both ways trades till trend is established.

04th Aug

1. Short on bearish WRB clearing the yesterday's range, add and then stop out.
2. Short and stopped out.
 78

05th Aug

Long on PH break and book 1/2 at the close of WRB because it is a huge bar. Rest 1/2
stopped out on pivot low break.

06th Aug

GAP Day - No clear trend was established in the earlier part and then came Short on clear
PL break and exit at EOD.
 79

09th Aug

10th Aug - SOH day

 80

11th Aug

12th Aug

GAP Day - So both ways trades till the trend is clear, but 1st bar range is wide with big
bottom tail. Price tried to break the range, failed and back into the range. Wait for range
to cleared, so long on PH break, add and exit at the end.
Stop was about to be hit in the 1:40 PM bar but filters saved it.
 81

16th and 17th Aug

16th Aug
1. Long in clear pivot, out on breakout failure as we discussed in SWIFT class on 15th
August.
2. Short on clear PL break with stop at two bar high because of vertical move when we
crack the PL. Out 1/2 on 15 min EOM bar and rest 1/2 on next +ve bar high.
3. Short below PL and stopped out.

17th Aug - GAP Day

1. No shorts if you trade clear pivots only. It triggers below 10:00 AM PL if you trade
aggressive pivots.

2. Long triggered because there was only decline till 11:20 - no clear trend for the day.
Add1 and then exit.
 82

18th Aug

1 long trade when we clear the range of the 1st bar.

19th Aug

Opening bar strong close clearing 18th Aug range, so long over 1st bar high. Book 1/2 on
hammer with high volume and rest 1/2 below bearish bar low because of vertical move.
 83

20th Aug - No Trades day

23rd Aug

Simple day. No longs in the afternoon because the price was in range.
 84

24th Aug

Short, Add1 and then Exit 1/2 on hammer after some decline and failure to break the
support. Rest 1/2 stopped out.

25th Aug
 85

26th Aug

27th Aug
 86

30th Aug

SOH day - no trades because of opening bar's wide range

31st Aug

We are still in yesterday's opening bar range, so one can avoid any trades till the range is
cleared. We will add this tweak if required.
 87

01st Sept

GAP day - Short and then SAR to long. Ride the move till end of the day- there were no
EOM bars.

02nd Sept - GAP Day

Short on clear pivot break outside the 1st bar range.

 88

03rd Sept - GAP day

Short on clear pivot break. For stop WRB reigns supreme as per ambush rules. Exit at
EOD.

06th Sept

Simple day - self explanatory

 89

SWIFT model trades – From journal ( tata motors )

Gap day therefore both ways trades in earliear part of the day.
Shorted below 9.40 pl, covered all above 12.10 bar high, long tailed dozi in HTF
 90

15-2-11
 91

16-2-11
 92

17-2-11
 93

18-2-11

" Should we avoid pivots after formation of a WRB for moving our SAR ??? if yes
then how long?"
Today after the WRB Two clear Pivots formed and the second one formed Higher Top
with respect the previous pivot high, still you did not lower your SAR???
My question to you is how long should we wait after a WRB to move down our SAR to
the nearest Pivot High?
Did you really wait in real trade like this model trade??(Don't take it otherwise, I am just
amazed to see your guts man...........)

Wrb + tiny pivot better to avoid tiny pivot. I would have exited over second ph, if taken
out along with hpl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pralhad
Hello Nileshji,

IMO Wrb + tiny pivot better to avoid tiny pivot is flow approach.....but in ambush and
swift we grab whatever profit we can and exit at Pivots in opposite direction,previous
support/resistances,EOM bars, Hammers,shooting stars in larger Timeframe of 30
min.....and re-enter in trade if trend continue.

One question to you and all seniors ....can we consider this WRB is EOM Bar?
 94

Regards,
-Pralhad
SWIFT is basically Flow on 10 TF so applying basic flow rules is not wrong. On the
other hand Intraday trading, IMO. is a game of pocketing gains and re-entering on next
signal. So once has to choose between the two many times.

Psychologically I am only comfortable with "pocketing the gains" so would have exited
above the 1st Pivot.

However, in so many places in the forum I have read "Respect the WRB in a
downtrend. SAR or SL above the WRB. That is what Nilesh has done. Kudos to him. I
still have to learn and internalise this maxim so that I do not have to remember it when
trading live.

IMO the WRB is not an EOM Bar as EOM Bars should close without tail in case of DT.
Looking forward to input from Nilesh on this as I am also learning EOM Bar Concept.

After a WRB ....we will generally see a flag type movement where small tiny pivots are
made/broken. This happens due to weak hands getting out of their positions and booking
profits ...these tiny pivots movement will generally not go above 50-55 % of the
WRB....avoid getting out on these tiny pivots.

The WRB is the chart discussed above( Tata Motors chart ) is a breakdown WRB (
meaning it broke PL after sideways movement ) ....EOM are generally not
breakout/breakdown WRBs. After the breakdown and 1-2 more large bars if we get a
EOM like WRB....then that could be considered as EOM.
 95

21-2-11
 96

22 nd feb
 97

25-2-11
98
99
100
 101

What is the reason for shorting below 9:30 Bar?

short because of gap up opening, low of 10 bar -f shorted
Does it mean for Tatamotors, in case of Gap opening, we can go short below a largish
bearish bar in the opening 2-3 bars? I have been trading only Pivot breaks in SWIFT.
Also in this case where would the initial SL be?

I take this type of two bars sideway's pivot to exit my positons and to take aggresive short
entries, the idea behind this type of trade which I take in to consideration is this that supp
in uptrend we are in rally and rally pauses by a inside red bar formation. Now next bar
should be continuation of rally i.e. green bar with higher high low, and thus forming an
aggressive pivot.if it fails to form I take short below two bars sideways, provided other
conditions met.

The stop I kept high of first bar, vph.

I take such type of entries as I am comfortable with. No such rules in original swift.
102
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SWIFT model trades – From journal ( BNF )

Trade 1: Short in 11:10 Bar below 10:55 PL. Covered in 11:30 Bar above 11:25 Hammer
Trade 2: Short in 12:15 Bar below 12:05 APL. Covered in 13:20 Bar above 13:05
Hammer
Trade 3: Short in 14:15 Bar below 14:00 Bar PL. Add1 in 14:40 Bar below 14:20 PL.
Add2 in 14:55 Bar below 14:40 PL. Covered All in 15:15 Bar above 15:10 Hammer.

Originally Posted by rameshgrk

sanjay, thnx for the charts...and hearty congratulations on your promotion...

could you plz explain 1st trade exit? can we use hammer exit without looking at S/R
levels(as hammer not too far from entry)? if possible plz explain your dotted lines S/R
criteria...

Thankyou
Ramesh

Thanx for your best wishes.

You are right in raising the query that hammer is not too far away from Entry but if you
see from where the DT started on 5TF there had been quite a steep fall so the I interpreted
the hammer as a place to book some profit.

However psychologically I am still uncomfortable with booking part profits as later I get
 105

confused about 2 thing:

1. when to exit if market moves against and
2. If it moves in favour - should I add back.

This confusion keeps clouding my trading decisions so have decided -in intraday trade - it
is better for me to book out and then wait for re-entry.

The Support / Resistance are from an AFL that Nilesh gave to me. Am plotting it but still
not using. Getting to know it. Have to study the formula. Will upload the AFL if you
need.

Originally Posted by tukai29

in chart u said ur going with SAR ..is it was SAR or simply stop...

or in the gap day u use stop as SAR in swift in the early part of the day?

if the price if goes against our trade and hit stop at the early part of a gap day ..can we
go for it as SAR and just reverse there in swift?
Thanks for pointing out the typo. It is STOP. Chart corrected
 106

Originally Posted by rameshgrk

Sanjay, thnx for the charts..

imo..the stop loss for your (morning)aggresive pivot entry is too wide.. i would have
taken this entry(more comfortable if it had 1more insidebar bar) with stop loss above
green bar high..
it may lead to quick loss sometimes, but when it works we get greater risk reward ratio..

just my opinion..

thankyou..
Dear Ramesh,

Thanks. However I have not backtested the idea you have suggested. Will do it over next
few days and implement the outcome.

Looking forward to comments on exits as that is a very important of SWIFT.

Originally Posted by sanjayk

Dear Ramesh,

Thanks. However I have not backtested the idea you have suggested. Will do it over next
few days and implement the outcome.
 107

Looking forward to comments on exits as that is a very important of SWIFT.

sanjay... it is part of the swift method...we use aggresive pivots too for entries in BNF
swift...
and for the exits part..you know im no expert...
but imo...if price is in uptrend on 30min charts...we are trying to catch rallies.. with
entries and exits on 5min..if we can feel rally is about to end we exit..generally by
hammers and slowing of momentum at S/R levels on 30min charts.. or using pivots
where minor trend turns to down..price acceptance/rejection, pattern failures
etc..sometimes we may not exit solely on 5min pivot breaks.....im still trying to learn..

briefly..for exits we must follow multiple timeframes...imo..

 108

Originally Posted by blueskythinking

Sanjay,
Could you please explain the rationale for exit?
Thanks
11:30 Bar bounces from a support line. 11:35 Bar is a Bullish Bar. Decided time to
pocket the gains. Would have shorted again if BNF had broken down below 11:30 PL
 109

Originally Posted by tukai29

how much filter u r using sanjay in bnf swift?
Filter - 5
Add Filter - 3

However keep reitesting every 2 months to decide if the Filter needs to be changed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rameshgrk
sanjay, thnx for the charts...

small doubt... IMO... that is not a EOM bar..it is a pivot breaking bar...eom bars come
after consecutive same colored bars(without a pivot) with huge volumed wrb...like today's
first bar..

it seems.. you exited because of extended down move on 5min chart... can we call this bar
an EOM bar? or u took any other timeframes help?

im fully ok with your exit...but for better understanding of the terms...i mean to ask...
Exhaustive WRB and EOM bar are one and the same? plz correct me if im wrong...and
help us understand eom bars better...

thankyou
 110

Thanks Ramesh...

Yes, am wrong in calling it EOM type BAR.. What I wanted to convey was that,
probably, this could be the end of down move that started from 15:05 Bar on 9th. I
reached this conclusion by seeing that price may rebound from support levels of 7th
March.

I should have said " Covered 50% at support"

Originally Posted by tukai29

will u please elaborate ur entry ..and the sentence ..doji not touching support ..please
sanjay
Entry is over an aggressive pivot...may be very aggressive.

In the first Bar see how price retraced up strongly from the bottom. The bottom of that
Bar is a support. See the dotted line I drew from there. If the Doji (green bar before the
highlighted one) had gone below that level and then retraced upwards then I would have
booked out above the Hi of that Bar.

Sorry the highlighting is incorrect. One bar earlier should have been highlighted.
 111


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3rd March 2001

Long Trade not take above 9:30 PH as it is still in yesterday's range - no trade zone.

Rest Chart is self - explanatory.

Originally Posted by blueskythinking

As per forum rules, I am posting my questions on Swift method here:

Can anyone tell me where I can learn more about the Exit strategy for swift such as
shooting stars and hammers?

Also can anyone explain the sell set up: PL cracking below the MA line and MA line
ticking down.... (not able to understand this)

thanks in advance
Exits are on EOM bars,earlier resistance and support areas, breakouts and breakdown
failures, reversal bars ....you need to study these....the earlier class explained all these
concepts....we have a class this weekend too on swift.

PL may be above the MA line when formed......but it should be below the MA line
when the current bar is breaking that PL....and at this bar the MA slope should be
downsloping....meaning earlier bar's MA value should be less than the MA at the bar
previous to it.......in short we dont go short when MA is rising....
 113

Some explanations for the trade taken.

1. Looked to short/long out of the range of 1st bar on clear pivot break. Shorted PL break.
Kept the Stop Loss above nearest PH. If the trade taken out stop loss, price could have
clearly entered the range of 1st bar, hence thought to keep SL there.

2. Not worried much about the dozis formed in between to book profits. But two dozis
formation has forced to close the trade.

Please review the trade and raise the doubts/querries if any.

 114

Trade 1: Gap Day so trade initiated irrespective of MA. Short in 10:30 Bar below 10:10
Bar APL. Covered in 11:40 Bar above 11:30 Hammer

Trade 2: Short in 12:30 Bar below 11:30 PL. Covered in 13:10 Bar as 13:00 Bar was a
Doji with Hi Volume.

Trade 3: Short in 14:40 Bar below 14:20 PL. Add1 in 15:00 Bar below 14:40 APL.
Covered in 15:30 Bar when it crossed 15:20 Bar Open. Basically EOD covering.

<Nikhil> why not long over first pivot

<Smart_trade> long trade you mean ? Nikhil ?
<Nikhil> Yes Dada...
<Smart_trade> no long trade on 2 reasons.....in the prev days range and the average
line drooping down
<Nikhil> Yes...Dada....but here is My take on it:
<Nikhil> We dnt take SMA in account while gap opening...
 115

<Nikhil> And Nilesh Sir went for similar trade later in the day...
<Smart_trade> not a visual gap that day
<narengreddy>
 
  
 
 
<Smart_trade> not a visual gap that day
<Nikhil> Thanks ST Da..
<Smart_trade> his last long trade is because price above MA...and MA line
upsloping when the pivot is taken out
<Nikhil> ST Da to me it looked like gOing down...
<Nikhil> sOrry Dada wasted yOur presious time...

Intraday Ambush and Swift Discussions Realtime

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart_trade
1 and 3 correct....not clear what you meant by scenario 2......pivot formed inside the
range but broken outside the range ? Can you elaborate ?

Smart_trade
Many thanks.
 117

The High of the range is 5508.2 Let us say a pivot hi hi formed at 5507 above the MA
line. With a filter of 3 the break of pivot will happen at 5510 outside the range. Should
we initiate a trade in this case?

TimeLine
NF SWIFT
10:20 - Will short below 10:00 Bar low. SL 10:20 Hi
11:05 - Price still moving in the non-trading range. MA absolutely flats. SOH day so far.
11:35 - Still SOH
12:10 - On 30TF price is moving in a tight upward channel. Volumes average. Will wait
for breakout above this channel to Go Long. So looking for market to cross 5515 to go
long
12:17 - Long. SAR 12:00 Bar Low
12:25 - NF May face resistance around 5550 so will look for indications to book some
profit there, if price goes there
13:00 - 12:50 Bar Doji / !3:00 Inverted Hammer. Will book some profit if price goes
below 12:50 Low. However SAR remains unchanged.
13:25 - Booked Partial Profit as price went below Doji / Inverted Hammer. Holding The
rest.
14:05 - SAR shifted to 13:30 Bar Low
14:45 - 14:45 Bar - Classic Resistance Play - Touches 5550 and then starts reversing. The
10TF support is at 5537. Lets see what happen...
Out at 5550
 118

BNF SWIFT

11:26 - Price moves above non-trading range. Now waiting for a PH to be formed above
11010. Break of that PH will put us in Long trade
11:30 - Long above 11:30 Hi with SL @ 11:15 Low
12:18 - SAR Shifted to 12:10 Bar Low
12:30 - ADD above 11:35 Bar Hi. (Sorry forgot to mention)
12:35 - SAR Shifted to 12:25 Lo
12:40 - BNF Resistance is around 11150 so will look for some profit booking there.
13:28 - Add 2 above 12:50 Hi. SAR :13:15 Lo. No more Adds now.
13:35 - So far market not giving any signal of weakness at 11150 levels to book partial
profit. Waiting...

Out at 11150
119