Roberta

Filing # 191755593 E-Filed 02/12/2024 01:30:21 PM
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE

TWELFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND
FOR SARASOTA COUNTY, FLORIDA
CASE NO.: 2022 CA 1128 SC
JOSEPH PETITO and NICHOLE
SCHMIDT,
Plaintiffs,
vs.
CHRISTOPHER LAUNDRIE, ROBERTA
LAUNDRIE, and STEVEN BERTOLINO,
Defendants.
/
DEFENDANT STEVEN BERTOLINO’S NOTICE OF
FILING DEPOSITION OF DEFENDANT ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
COMES NOW, this Defendant, STEVEN BERTOLINO, through counsel, pursuant to the
Florida Rules of Civil Procedure, and hereby gives notice of filing the transcript of the October 11,
2023 deposition of Defendant ROBERTA LAUNDRIE in support of Defendant Steven Bertolino’s
Motion for Summary Judgment, filed on February 12, 2024. This Notice is given in accordance with
Florida Rule of Civil Procedure 1.510(c). The transcript is also filed for use at trial and any other
purposes as provided for by the Florida Rules of Civil Procedure.
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I HEREBY CERTIFY that on February 12, 2024, the foregoing was electronically filed
with the Court, which will give electronic notice to: Patrick J. Reilly, Esquire at e-
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected] [counsel for
Plaintiffs]; and Ryan L. Gilbert, Esquire at [email protected], [email protected]
[counsel for Christopher and Roberta Laundrie].
/s/ Laura M. Kelly
CHARLES J. MELTZ, ESQUIRE
Florida Bar No. 985491
LAURA M. KELLY, ESQUIRE
Florida Bar No. 106436
TELAN, MELTZ, WALLACE & EIDE, P.A.
901 N. Lake Destiny Road, Ste 450, Maitland, FL 32751
Phone: (407) 423-9545 | Fax: (407) 425-7104
[email protected]
Counsel for Defendant Steven Bertolino
14606/3352
Filed 02/12/2024 03:44 PM - Karen E. Rushing, Clerk of the Circuit Court, Sarasota County, FL
3
1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE TWELFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT 1 Deposition of: ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR SARASOTA COUNTY 2
2 3 I N D E X
CASE NO. 2022 CA 001128 SC 4 Examination Page
3 5 Direct, by Mr. Reilly 4
4 JOSEPH PETITO and 6
NICHOLE SCHMIDT, 7 Certificate of Oath 121
5
Deposition Certificate 122
Plaintiffs,
8 Read & Sign Instructions 123
6
Errata Sheet 125
vs.
9
7
CHRISTOPHER LAUNDRIE and 10
8 ROBERTA LAUNDRIE, 11
9 Defendants. 12
______________________________/ 13 E X H I B I T S
10 14 Number Description Marked
11 15 Plaintiffs' 1 AT&T Phone Records 40
12 for 631-579-3557
13 DEPOSITION OF ROBERTA LAUNDRIE 16
14 Plaintiffs' 2 (Unmarked)
15 17
16 TAKEN BY: COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFFS HEREIN Plaintiffs' 3 Bertolino Statement Dated 82
17 DATE: Wednesday, October 11, 2023 18 09-14-21
18 TIME: 9:09 - 11:52 a.m. 19 Plaintiffs' 4 Stafford Letter to Mr. and 94
19 PLACE: Roberts Reporting, Inc.
Mrs. Laundrie Dated 09-15-21
871 Venetia Bay Boulevard
20
20 Suite 202
Plaintiffs' 5 Tweet from Jossie Carbonare 96
Venice, Florida
21 WPBF25 Dated 09-19-21
21
BEFORE: AMY E. ROBERTS 22 Plaintiffs' 6 Handwritten Note to Brian 100
22 Registered Professional Reporter Laundrie from Roberta Laundrie
Registered Merit Reporter 23
23 Notary Public Plaintiffs' 7 Affidavit of Roberta Laundrie 115
State of Florida at Large 24
24 Plaintiffs' 8 Email from Roberta Laundrie
25 25 Dated 08/29/21 to Brian Laundrie
2 4
1 APPEARANCES 1 THEREUPON,
2
3 PATRICK J. REILLY, Esquire 2 ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
Snyder and Reilly, Trial Lawyers 3 was adduced as the deponent herein and, being
4 355 West Venice Avenue
Venice, Florida 34285 4 personally known to the Notary, was then duly sworn
5 941-485-9626 5 on oath and was questioned and stated as follows:
[email protected]
6 Appearing on Behalf of Plaintiffs 6 THE WITNESS: Yes.
7
8 RYAN L. GILBERT, Esquire
7 DIRECT EXAMINATION
Ryan Gilbert Law, PLLC 8 BY MR. REILLY:
9 2112 SW 34th Street
Suite 387
9 Q. Good morning, Mrs. Laundrie.
10 Gainesville, Florida 32608-1204 10 A. Good morning.
352-756-4146
11 [email protected]
11 Q. Would you state your name for the record,
Appearing on Behalf of Defendants 12 please?
12
13 CHARLES J. MELTZ, Esquire 13 A. Roberta Laundrie.
LAURA M. KELLY, Esquire 14 Q. Mrs. Laundrie, you've sat through your
14 Telan, Meltz, Wallace & Eide, P.A.
901 North Lake Destiny Road 15 husband's deposition yesterday and I have taken your
15 Suite 450 16 deposition in the past and I gave instructions then
Maitland, Florida 32751
16 407-423-9545 17 and I gave instructions to your husband yesterday.
[email protected] 18 Do you need me to repeat those?
17 [email protected]
Appearing on Behalf of Steven Bertolino 19 A. No.
18 20 Q. Okay. What is your address?
19
20 ALSO PRESENT: Joseph Petito 21 A. , North Port.
Nichole Schmidt
21 via Zoom Videoconference
22 Q. Have you ever been known by any other
Christopher Laundrie 23 names other than Roberta Laundrie?
22 Steven Bertolino
23
24 A. My maiden name, Roberta Vinci.
24 25 Q. What is it?
25
1 (Pages 1 to 4)
ROBERTS REPORTING, INC.
941-485-7267
5 7
1 A. Roberta Vinci, V-I-N-C-I. 1 believe, the first week he returned home.
2 Q. What is your date of birth? 2 Q. Why did he need a new phone?
3 A. /66. 3 A. He didn't say.
4 Q. How old are you currently? 4 Q. Okay. Do you know what happened to his
5 A. 58. 5 old phone?
6 Q. You're currently married to Christopher 6 A. No, I don't.
7 Laundrie? 7 Q. Do you know what kind of phone he had
8 A. Yes. 8 previously?
9 Q. Did he have the year right? Or he didn't 9 A. No, I don't.
10 remember the year. What's the date of your marriage? 10 Q. Did he ever own a tablet of any kind?
11 A. July 11th, 1986. 11 A. I don't believe so.
12 Q. What is your current telephone number? 12 Q. Are you currently employed?
13 A. -6520. 13 A. No.
14 Q. In the past five years have you had any 14 Q. When is the last time you were employed?
15 other telephone numbers? 15 A. I retired in 2020, December.
16 A. Yes. 16 Q. From where?
17 Q. What are they? 17 A. Suffolk County.
18 A. -3557. I'm actually not quite sure 18 Q. What did you do for Suffolk County?
19 how long I had that number, but I had that. 19 A. I worked in the Office of Water Resources.
20 Q. Any other numbers? 20 Q. What did you do there?
21 A. Not that I can recall. 21 A. Secretary.
22 Q. How about -6105? 22 Q. For how long?
23 A. Yeah, I think that was another cell phone 23 A. 15 years.
24 number I had. I don't remember when. It does ring a 24 Q. Did you ever have any involvement in C&R
25 bell. 25 Specialty Services, Inc.?
6 8
1 MR. GILBERT: Mr. Reilly, would you repeat 1 A. Yes.
2 that number that you just -- 2 Q. What was your involvement in that?
3 MR. REILLY: Sure. 3 A. Same kind of thing. Secretary, paperwork.
4 MR. GILBERT: -- blurted out? . 4 Q. How about Juice Fountain, Inc.?
5 MR. REILLY: -6105. 5 A. No.
6 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) And you said that was a 6 Q. Do you know Mr. Bertolino?
7 prior cell phone number of yours? 7 A. Yes.
8 A. I believe so. 8 Q. And how do you know him?
9 Q. Okay. And I have three numbers for Brian. 9 A. We're friends from Bayport, Long Island.
10 -1787. Do you recognize that number? 10 Q. How long have you known him?
11 A. I recognize it, but it's not Brian's. 11 A. Over 30 years.
12 Q. How about -3557? 12 Q. When you say you're friends, how close
13 A. That's not -- that was my old number. 13 friends was your family with his family?
14 Q. And what about -1783? 14 A. Oh, I believe we were close. Our children
15 A. Yes. I believe that was Brian's. 15 played and we spent time together socially.
16 Q. And he also had a number, correct? 16 Q. Prior to 2021 did Mr. Bertolino ever
17 A. I believe so. 17 represent you in anything?
18 Q. Do you know what that was? 18 A. Yes.
19 A. No. 19 Q. What did he represent you in?
20 Q. When he returned from out west on 20 A. The sale and purchase of a couple of
21 September 1st at some point after that did you and he 21 homes, a few homes we bought.
22 go to get another phone number? 22 Q. Do you recall if you ever signed a fee
23 A. Yes. 23 agreement with Mr. Bertolino?
24 Q. When was that? 24 A. A fee agreement? I'm not sure if it was a
25 A. I don't remember the date, but it was, I 25 fee agreement, but I don't know.
2 (Pages 5 to 8)
941-485-7267
9 11
1 Q. Other than the sale and purchase of homes, 1 he was friendly with. He was a good boy, hard
2 did he represent you in any other capacity? 2 worker, and I could go on and on. He was wonderful.
3 A. I believe he did our wills. I think 3 Q. Was he ever fired from any job he had?
4 that's all I can remember. 4 A. Not that I know of.
5 Q. And were you -- your husband testified 5 Q. Did you ever hear anyone suggest that he
6 yesterday about some investment properties. Were you 6 was physically abusive in any way?
7 involved with investment properties with 7 A. Not at all.
8 Mr. Bertolino? 8 Q. When did you first meet Gabby Petito?
9 A. Yes. My husband was. 9 A. She came to our apartment in Medford in, I
10 Q. You were not? 10 guess, the fall of -- late summer or fall of 2019.
11 A. So I guess -- I don't think I was on 11 Q. 2019?
12 any -- involved in that. 12 A. I believe so. It's hard for me to --
13 Q. What's your understanding of that 13 yeah, because we moved here in 2020, so -- it could
14 investment relationship? 14 have been '20. I'm not sure.
15 A. I believe that Steven bought and sold 15 Q. What was the address in Medford?
16 homes, and my husband would invest money and, when 16 A. It was the but I
17 they fixed the home and sold it, my husband would get 17 don't have the exact address, but that's the
18 his money back with interest or whatever they made on 18 apartment complex. .
19 the sale of the house. Something like that. 19 Q. What were the circumstances of Gabby
20 Q. Okay. 20 coming to your home at that time?
21 A. That's my best understanding of it. 21 A. I just remembered Brian brought her over
22 Q. What was Brian's birthday? 22 one day and we met her and he introduced her as
23 A. /97. 23 "Gabrielle." I don't remember if he said the word
24 Q. I think yesterday your husband said '98, 24 "girlfriend," but he introduced her and she -- we met
25 so that was incorrect? 25 her, and then a week or so later we all went out to
10 12
1 A. I don't know what he said, but I think it 1 dinner and just kind of slowly got to know her.
2 was incorrect, but I know it's '97. 2 Q. What was your understanding of their
3 Q. Okay. Prior to Gabby did he have any 3 relationship at that time?
4 girlfriends? 4 A. I just assumed it was his girlfriend.
5 A. Not that I was aware of. 5 Q. Did he ever announce to you that she was
6 Q. So he never brought anyone home? 6 his girlfriend?
7 A. No. Just lots of friends, but I can't 7 A. No, not officially, but I just -- you
8 name a specific person that he introduced as his 8 know, bringing her around and hanging around, I just
9 girlfriend. 9 assumed it was his girlfriend.
10 Q. Did he ever have any issues at school? 10 Q. So this was in the fall of 2019. When did
11 A. No. 11 you move to Florida?
12 Q. Okay. Never got in any trouble at school? 12 A. December of 2020.
13 A. No. 13 Q. And you --
14 Q. Ever in any fights that you're aware of? 14 A. So, you know -- I'm sorry -- it could have
15 A. No. 15 been 2020 I met her. I'm sorry. I don't remember.
16 Q. Did he have anger issues? 16 Q. How soon after you met Gabby did you move
17 A. No. 17 to Florida?
18 Q. Did he have a temper? 18 A. Gosh.
19 A. No. 19 Q. Was it three to six months or was it a
20 Q. Describe him, if you would, for me, 20 year and three to six months?
21 please, for the five years prior to 2021. Tell me 21 A. I guess a year, yeah, because there was
22 about him. 22 COVID. COVID was two thousand and --
23 A. He's a very sweet boy; kind, considerate, 23 Q. '20, beginning of '20.
24 loving. He loved his nephews. He loved his sister. 24 A. Beginning of '20. So, yes. So it was a
25 He loved us. He was -- he had a lot of friends that 25 year. So we must have met her in '19.
3 (Pages 9 to 12)
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13 15
1 Q. Okay. 1 Q. How long did they live there?
2 A. Yeah, so it was a year. 2 A. About a year.
3 Q. And over the period of time from the first 3 Q. Prior to the time that they moved to
4 time you met her in the summer or fall of 2019 until 4 Florida how often would you see Gabby?
5 you moved to Florida in 2020 how often would you see 5 A. Prior to moving to Florida? Just a
6 her? 6 handful of times.
7 A. Oh, we came to visit once or twice. Once 7 Q. What was your impression of Gabby?
8 or twice. 8 A. Very sweet.
9 Q. When you say "came to visit," are you 9 Q. Okay. How would you -- just as you've
10 talking about there came a time when they moved to 10 described Brian, how would you describe Gabby?
11 Florida? 11 A. Describe her? Sweet, cheerful, friendly,
12 A. Yes. During COVID they were living in 12 warm, affectionate, kind, thoughtful. Just a really
13 Florida and we visited. My daughter lives there, so 13 nice girl.
14 we visited my daughter; we visited my son. We took a 14 Q. What was your relationship with her during
15 little beach vacation. 15 that period of time?
16 Q. Do you know when they moved to Florida? 16 A. Very friendly. We -- you know, we'd laugh
17 A. When Brian and Gabrielle moved to Florida? 17 and joke and talk, and I think we really liked each
18 It was around December of 2020. I would say it was 18 other.
19 December. 19 Q. What did you observe about the
20 Q. Well, you moved there in December of 2020. 20 relationship between Brian and Gabby?
21 A. Goodness gracious. And they were already 21 A. I thought they were very sweet together,
22 living there, but I thought you said COVID was 22 very playful together. They enjoyed each other and I
23 2000. 23 thought it was a nice, good relationship.
24 Q. COVID was early -- March or so of 2020. 24 Q. Did your relationship with Gabby ever
25 A. And so when COVID hit they'd just started 25 change over time?
14 16
1 to -- they were just living together for a few 1 A. No. Well, it got -- we got closer as we
2 months. 2 knew each other longer and longer.
3 Q. Where? 3 Q. I'm sorry. Say that again.
4 A. We bought them -- well, we bought 4 A. As we knew each other longer and longer we
5 ourselves a little investment condo and they moved 5 grew closer and we really cared for each other. I
6 into it here in North Port. So what was the question 6 cared for her. I believe she cared for me, too. She
7 now? 7 always said so.
8 Q. When did they move to Florida? 8 Q. Did you love her?
9 A. Just before COVID began. I'd say a few 9 A. Yes.
10 months before COVID. COVID began in March? 10 Q. Were you jealous of her relationship with
11 Q. I believe so. 11 Brian?
12 A. Yeah, so I think around December or 12 A. No.
13 January of that year. 13 Q. Do you recall an incident in which you
14 Q. What's the address of the place they were 14 threw a pie or a cake away?
15 living? 15 A. I didn't remember it until you mentioned
16 A. That was . 16 it yesterday, and I didn't throw the pie away. It
17 Q. what? 17 was silly and I -- my feelings got hurt over a
18 A. . 18 comment on the pie and I -- I did apologize to
19 Q. Is that Boulevard? 19 Gabrielle because I think I -- my feelings were hurt
20 A. I don't know. 20 and I was sulky and -- but I thought it was all
21 Q. That's in North Port? 21 forgotten and we were fine after that, but, you know,
22 A. Yes. 22 I was a little sulky that night.
23 Q. And that's property you and your husband 23 And the next day everything was fine and I
24 had just purchased? 24 apologized, and she was fine with it, and I
25 A. Yes. 25 thought -- I'd forgotten all about it until it came
4 (Pages 13 to 16)
941-485-7267
17 19
1 up yesterday and I felt really bad, but I thought 1 And we said, "No. Stay there. That's fine."
2 it was -- I really thought nothing of it and I 2 He said, "No," you know, "we don't want to stay
3 thought she thought nothing of it, too. 3 there if you guys want to rent it out."
4 Q. Well, what was the comment that was 4 And then he wanted to live with us, too. He
5 upsetting to you? 5 thought it would be nice, and nice for Gabrielle to
6 A. I don't remember if it was a comment so 6 live with us, and then we ended up selling the condo.
7 much. It was -- I had made dinner and I had made 7 Q. And then they moved to with you?
8 this pie and I was excited about my pie and to 8 A. Yes.
9 present on the table. My mother was visiting and 9 Q. How long were they at ?
10 I think I was just exhausted from all the people in 10 A. From about January until May.
11 the house, and when I put the pie down I think there 11 Q. Of 2021?
12 was a comment. I think there was just a little 12 A. Yes.
13 ruckus at the table where it's so silly, but nobody 13 Q. And they lived there full-time?
14 made a nice comment. I guess it was lack of a 14 A. Yes.
15 comment. Nobody said, "Oh, nice pie." 15 Q. Did you ever see any disagreements or
16 And I know that's so silly and I regret it, but 16 arguments between the two of them?
17 I got annoyed, and I don't know why I got annoyed at 17 A. No.
18 kind of everybody and a little bit at Gabrielle, and 18 Q. Did you ever see anything about their
19 it was silly and I was -- I felt bad. I don't even 19 relationship that concerned you?
20 remember it. I vaguely remember it. I just remember 20 A. No.
21 it was a pie and I was embarrassed, but I didn't 21 Q. When did they get engaged?
22 throw out the pie. We ate the pie, but it was 22 A. They had gone on a little trip, and I
23 just -- I don't know. I behaved not nicely and I 23 remember it was on the trip that he gave her a ring,
24 apologized to Gabrielle. She was very nice about it 24 and I don't remember the date.
25 and we were fine after that. 25 Q. Do you have a -- was it some time between
18 20
1 Q. And what was it about Gabrielle that 1 January and May of 2021?
2 annoyed you? 2 A. No, because I was -- I believe I was in
3 A. It was nothing specific that annoyed me 3 New York still when they told me over the phone, so
4 about Gabrielle. We lived together and there were 4 it was before that.
5 little things. I'm sure I annoyed her, too, but, 5 Q. So it was prior to January of 2021?
6 like anything, even when I spend time with my 6 A. Yes.
7 daughter, who I love -- but nothing big. Nothing, 7 Q. You said they took a trip. Where did they
8 you know. Normal, everyday things. But I think we 8 go?
9 had a -- overall had a wonderful relationship and 9 A. I don't remember.
10 she -- I felt she loved me. I loved her and I felt 10 Q. How long were they gone?
11 very bad about the pie coming up. 11 A. I don't remember.
12 Q. So they moved to the property in North 12 Q. Did you speak with them during that trip?
13 Port, the or whatever Boulevard 13 A. No. Usually when he was -- if people are
14 property it is and lived there about a year? 14 on vacation or a trip, I never bother people when
15 A. Yes. 15 they're away, so.
16 Q. And why did they leave that apartment? 16 Q. Well, I guess, was this an extended trip,
17 A. Well, we were letting them live there for 17 like a month or more, or was it just a few weeks?
18 free, but it was supposed to be a rental property and 18 A. I cannot remember the trip. I just
19 the -- well, we bought it -- we purchased it to rent 19 remember him -- I remember they were away when they
20 out, but the condo association said you can't rent it 20 got engaged. That's all I can remember.
21 out for a year. I don't know. That was their rule. 21 Q. When you found out that they were engaged
22 So we said, all right, rather than it stay empty for 22 what was your reaction?
23 a year, Brian and Gabrielle can live in it. And so
23 A. I thought it was very sweet and I was
24 after the year passed Brian said, "Well, you guys
24 happy for them.
25 probably want to rent it out now."
25 Q. Did you have any concerns about them
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21 23
1 getting engaged at a young age? 1 Q. How did you become aware of that?
2 A. No, because they were just well suited, 2 A. Oh, about a little less than a week before
3 and I was married at a young age and -- I don't know. 3 they were leaving we discovered that they were --
4 Q. What do you mean they were "well suited"? 4 they had moved stuff into storage, and then they were
5 A. I don't know. They got along so well. 5 fixing up their van, and we sort of put two and two
6 They both liked art and drawing and -- I don't know. 6 together and we said we think they're going away.
7 They just seemed like a good pair. 7 Q. How did you discover they were moving
8 Q. What would you observe, when they lived 8 things into storage?
9 with you, the two of them doing together? What kinds 9 A. I think Chris found a receipt, and then
10 of things did they do? 10 I think they finally -- I think we asked them about
11 A. I don't know. Just regular stuff. 11 the receipt, and they said, yeah, they moved stuff
12 Occasionally they'd go off on a hike or they'd go 12 into storage.
13 shopping, go grab something to eat. They'd go for 13 Q. Did they say why they moved it into
14 walks at night. 14 storage?
15 Q. Prior to the time that Brian brought Gabby 15 A. No.
16 to your house in 2019 what was your relationship like 16 Q. How much stuff did they move into storage?
17 with Brian? 17 A. Well, everything because eventually at
18 A. Prior to? Wonderful. We were very close. 18 some point I looked in the room and there was
19 Good relationship. 19 nothing. Nothing was left.
20 Q. Did you do things together? 20 Q. Well, what kind of -- are you talking
21 A. Yes. 21 about furniture? Clothing? What are you talking
22 Q. What did you do together? 22 about?
23 A. Everything. Go to the store, go for 23 A. Well, everything. They had a
24 hikes, go on vacation, watch TV. 24 two-bedroom -- they had a bedroom. It was a
25 Q. Did your relationship with Brian change 25 three-bedroom house, so they had two of the bedrooms,
22 24
1 after he started dating Gabby? 1 and one was their bedroom and the other was like a
2 A. No, I don't think it changed. 2 couch with a TV and they used it as a living room,
3 Q. Did you still continue to do all those 3 and a bathroom. So they had their own side. So I
4 things together? 4 don't know if it was after they left or right before
5 A. Well, by then he was living in Florida, so 5 they left; there was nothing in any of the rooms.
6 I -- and I was in New York, so we would just talk on 6 Just the couch and TV.
7 the phone now and then and visit. 7 Q. Did they --
8 Q. How often, when he lived in Florida while 8 A. Personal belongings, everything was gone.
9 you were in New York, would you speak with him? 9 Q. Were you surprised that they'd moved
10 A. I can't say. Just every once in a while. 10 stuff?
11 Q. Well, was it every week? 11 A. Well, I already knew about the storage
12 A. No. 12 unit and we saw them working on the van, so, no, I
13 Q. Every two weeks? 13 wasn't surprised.
14 A. It was random. I mean, we could talk one 14 Q. But do you know why they decided to move
15 day and the following day and then not talk for two 15 it into storage as opposed to just leaving it at the
16 weeks. It was just random. 16 house?
17 Q. Did he ever tell you during that period of 17 A. No, and that's why I had asked my son --
18 time about any issues he and Gabby were having? 18 after they were on the trip I suggested to him, "Why
19 A. No. 19 don't you just store it here? I don't know why
20 Q. How about when you lived together? Did he 20 you're paying a storage unit." That was my idea. I
21 tell you about any issues they were having? 21 said, "Why are you paying for a storage unit? We
22 A. No. 22 have an empty room." Everything -- we could -- you
23 Q. In 2021 did you become aware that they
23 know, it was the size of a storage unit, the bedroom.
24 were going to take a trip?
24 We could pile up the boxes in there. But he didn't
25 A. Yes.
25 want to inconvenience us. And we said we don't mind.
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25 27
1 It's just an extra room. 1 your home in Florida that it was discovered they were
2 Q. And you said that they were fixing up the 2 out west?
3 van. What did they do? 3 A. No. Sometime over that summer.
4 A. Well, Brian was converting it into like a 4 Q. Was it a month?
5 camper van. 5 A. Maybe a month.
6 Q. Do you know where they got the van? 6 Q. Before they left did they give you any
7 A. No. 7 indication if they were planning on returning to
8 Q. Do you know whose name the van was titled 8 Florida?
9 in? 9 A. No, no indication either way. I didn't
10 A. Yes. 10 know.
11 Q. Whose name? 11 Q. Okay. You weren't concerned about that?
12 A. Gabrielle. 12 A. Well, not concerned. They're adults and,
13 Q. When did you learn that? 13 you know, that's their life and I wasn't concerned.
14 A. I guess I saw the title. I saw the title. 14 Q. And if I asked you this, I apologize. How
15 I don't remember. 15 soon after they left -- tell me, when did they leave
16 Q. When did you see it? 16 Florida? Do you know?
17 A. Don't remember -- 17 A. Yes. I remember it was early in June,
18 Q. Before -- 18 like the 1st or 2nd. Very early in June.
19 A. -- oh, but I knew pretty early on. 19 Q. Of 2021?
20 Q. Before they left? 20 A. Yes.
21 A. Yes, yes. 21 Q. And when you discovered that they were out
22 Q. Okay. Did you discuss the trip with them, 22 west, how soon after -- strike that.
23 where they were going, how long they were going to be 23 When you learned that they were out west, how
24 gone, things of that nature? 24 long was that after they'd left your home?
25 A. No, I didn't discuss it with them 25 A. I'm not positive, but I would say a month.
26 28
1 directly, but Chris had told me that they were -- no, 1 That's just an approximate.
2 I did. I remember Gabrielle telling me, too. Her 2 Q. Did you speak with Brian during that month
3 brother was graduating and she was going to go -- 3 period?
4 they were going to camp their way down. I don't 4 A. No, I don't think I spoke with Brian all
5 remember who told me, whether it was Brian, Chris or 5 summer, but I could be wrong. We might have spoken
6 Gabby, but they were going to camp their way down. 6 quickly or texted. I can't recall.
7 But I do remember Gabrielle telling me her brother 7 Q. Was it unusual for you to go for such a
8 was graduating. She wanted to go to her brother's 8 long period of time without speaking with him?
9 graduation. 9 A. No. The last time he took a trip we
10 Q. At this time did your husband have a 10 didn't speak until he got back.
11 closer relationship with Brian than you? 11 Q. Do you know if your husband spoke with him
12 A. I would say we were both close with Brian. 12 during that month interval?
13 Q. Was it your understanding that they were 13 A. I recall that they had -- he called for
14 only traveling up to New York? 14 Father's Day, I believe.
15 A. At the time, yes. 15 Q. After you learned from your daughter that
16 Q. When did you learn that they were going 16 they were out west, did you call Brian and say hey,
17 out west? 17 where are you going? What are you doing?
18 A. When they didn't come back for a while. 18 A. I can't recall. I probably did, but I
19 My daughter had seen a post. I don't know if it was 19 can't say for certain. I'm sure I must have called
20 Snapchat. I don't know what thing they used. And 20 or texted, and I can't remember if he called or
21 she took a screenshot of it and sent it to me and she 21 texted back. I just don't remember.
22 said, "Oh, look, they're out west." 22 Q. And you don't know what the purpose of
23 Q. Do you know where they were at that point? 23 their trip out west was?
24 A. No. 24 A. At the time I didn't know for sure. I
25 Q. Do you know how long after they had left 25 just assumed they were out west again because they
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29 31
1 had done it once before. They had taken a 1 and fixing up the van, I thought he was going for
2 cross-country road trip, so I said, oh, I guess 2 longer. And right before he left I just thought he
3 they're taking another road -- country trip. 3 was going for another trip like he did before and it
4 Q. The one that they took before, I think 4 might be long, but I didn't know for sure. It's
5 that's the one you told me about in 2020. Yes? 5 foggy. I'm sorry. My -- that time is just two years
6 A. Yes. 6 ago and it's a little foggy and I'm having trouble
7 Q. Do you know where they went on that trip? 7 with my -- but I think that's right. I think I got
8 A. I remember they showed us pictures and I 8 it right.
9 know it was out west, but I don't remember. 9 Q. Have you ever been diagnosed with memory
10 Q. Your husband mentioned Oregon yesterday. 10 issues?
11 Do you know if they went out to Oregon on that first 11 A. No.
12 trip? 12 Q. Or cognitive issues?
13 A. Yeah, I remember. I heard him say that, 13 A. It's not a memory issue. It's just it was
14 too, and it did ring a bell. I was like, oh, yeah, 14 two years ago and so much has happened and I'm just
15 Oregon. I remember hearing something about Oregon. 15 trying to remember exactly.
16 Q. And do you know why they went to Oregon? 16 Q. When you said they modified the van, can
17 A. I thought Gabrielle said she had a 17 you tell me what they did?
18 relative or that they stopped by on a relative or a 18 A. I remember looking in it once when he was
19 friend of her mother's. I don't really remember. 19 working on it and it looked like there was a
20 Q. Did you ever, prior to August of 2021, 20 platform. There was some shelves coming down. They
21 express any concern to Brian or Gabby about the trip? 21 were making it so that they could do -- so that they
22 A. The first trip? 22 could camp in it. A little shelf for a table and a
23 Q. No. The second trip. 23 platform and, you know, they put a little rug in it,
24 A. Did I express concern? 24 made it comfortable.
25 Q. I'll rephrase the question. With regard 25 Q. Was there a mattress in the van?
30 32
1 to the 2021 trip, prior to August 24th of 2021 did 1 A. I did see one.
2 you express any concerns to Brian or Gabby about the 2 Q. Did you or your husband assist in any way
3 trip? 3 with the work that was done on the van?
4 A. I think right before Brian left I was kind 4 A. No, I don't think so. I think -- well, he
5 of disappointed because I was like -- another trip? 5 used my husband's tools and everything in the garage,
6 I thought, you know, you guys were going to live here 6 but.
7 and save your money and get a house and -- but he was 7 Q. If I recall your testimony correctly, and
8 like it's not going to be that much because we're 8 please tell me if I'm wrong, they left in June, early
9 going to stay in the van. And that was my only 9 June. You didn't talk to Brian until you learned
10 concern. I thought they were -- I thought he wanted 10 they were on a trip out west, correct?
11 to save money for a house. I was a little 11 A. I don't remember the first time I talked
12 disappointed, but he was like it's not going to cost 12 to Brian once they left. I just can't recall.
13 that much and we have the van, so it's -- there's a 13 Q. And how often after that would you speak
14 lot of free camping out there, and I just felt better 14 with him?
15 about it. That was my only concern. 15 A. Not much at all. They were on a trip. I
16 Q. When you said "before" they left, do you 16 wasn't hearing from him. I would ask my daughter if
17 mean before they left your home in early June of 17 she heard from him, and we -- I don't know. I just
18 2021?
18 assumed they didn't have cell phone service.
19 A. Well, that's right. I guess I did have an
19 Q. Why didn't you try to call him?
20 idea that he would be going longer than the
20 A. I think I did. I'm sure I must have
21 texted or called.
21 graduation. I think I suspected he was going longer
22 Q. Do you know if your husband spoke with
22 than the graduation, although he didn't come right
23 him?
23 out and say it. Because he was fixing up the van, I
24 A. Yeah, I believe they spoke on Father's Day
24 had a feeling. First I thought he was fixing up the
25 and I think there were other times that we spoke. It
25 van just to do weekend trips, but between the storage
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33 35
1 was just -- we didn't speak a lot because he was on a 1 A. I didn't even know what was originally
2 trip. 2 planned.
3 Q. At any time did you become aware of any 3 Q. What do you mean by that? Longer
4 incidents between Brian and Gabby? 4 meaning?
5 A. No. 5 A. Well, I guess he thought maybe they would
6 Q. In particular on August 12 there was an 6 only be gone a little while and store it. I don't
7 incident at Moab where the police were contacted. 7 know. I can't guess. Maybe he'd only store it for a
8 When did you learn about that? 8 while, and now I guess they were going to extend
9 A. When it was on TV after -- whenever it had 9 their trip, so now he might as well put it back at
10 televised on TV after -- I guess that was September 10 home.
11 or October of 2021. Whenever they put it on TV. 11 Q. What did he tell you about extending their
12 Q. So Brian never contacted you about that 12 trip?
13 incident? 13 A. That there was -- he discovered a place
14 A. No. 14 where you could work. Not be paid, but you would
15 Q. Did you ever discuss it with Brian? 15 get -- you would get to keep your van there for free,
16 A. No, because I didn't know about it until 16 camp there, and while you were working for them you
17 after Brian was deceased. He was deceased by the 17 would learn about farming. It was some sort of a
18 time I saw that on TV. 18 farming co-op or -- I don't know what they called it,
19 Q. Brian came home on August 17 of 2021, 19 but him and Gabrielle were going to work there and
20 correct? 20 learn about farming and be able to park their van for
21 A. Yes. 21 free. And I thought that sounded great and I was
22 Q. Why did he come home? 22 excited about that.
23 A. I had suggested he empty out the storage 23 Q. And where was that?
24 unit and save some money, and so he said great and he 24 A. Somewhere out west.
25 did that, and I don't know if that was his main 25 Q. You don't know where?
34 36
1 reason, but that's what -- I think it was also to 1 A. No.
2 visit us and visit his nephews and, you know, empty 2 Q. Did they tell you how long it would be
3 out his storage unit. 3 before they came back east?
4 Q. How much did the storage unit cost him a 4 A. Well, they were going to sell -- help this
5 month? 5 farm, these pumpkins, and sell them for this farm,
6 A. I don't know. 6 and then, you know, after that it was sort of up in
7 Q. Did he pay for his airline ticket? 7 the air, you know, what they would do after that.
8 A. I don't know. I assume -- we didn't pay 8 Q. Did you discuss when Brian was home --
9 for it -- 9 coming home on August 17th, during that time frame,
10 Q. Well, that's fair enough. 10 did you discuss with him his relationship with Gabby?
11 A. -- so yeah. 11 A. No.
12 Q. So neither you nor your husband paid for 12 Q. Did he mention Gabby at all?
13 it? 13 A. Not that I recall. No specific
14 A. Right. 14 conversation I can recall.
15 Q. And your understanding -- before he flew 15 Q. Did you ask about Gabby?
16 home on the 17th did you know he was coming home? 16 A. Not that I recall. I think during that
17 A. Yes. 17 trip we just -- I talked on the phone with Gabrielle,
18 Q. And he told you he was coming home to move 18 but I don't think I said how's Gabrielle. I think I
19 things out of the storage unit? 19 just asked Gabrielle herself, "How are you?"
20 A. Yes. 20 Q. How long was Brian home?
21 Q. Did he say why? 21 A. About a week.
22 A. Save some money. Oh, because they were 22 Q. Okay. Do you recall the date when he flew
23 going to be longer than -- you know, than they 23 back west?
24 originally, I guess, planned. 24 A. No.
25 Q. What do you mean? 25 Q. Do you recall where he flew into?
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37 39
1 A. Salt Lake City, I believe. 1 thought he might not look at it for a while, because
2 Q. Okay. Did he stay with you when he came 2 I didn't know what kind of reception he would even
3 home? 3 have or if he checked e-mail, so I would either text
4 A. Yes. 4 or call.
5 Q. What was your understanding of the 5 Q. So for you to e-mail him would be unusual?
6 relationship between Brian and Gabby at the point in 6 A. Yeah. I did e-mail him now and then, but
7 time when he came home in mid August? 7 not much. We weren't really e-mailers.
8 A. My understanding of the relationship was 8 Q. And we asked for copies of any e-mail
9 just that they were still together and still dating 9 exchanges that you had with him through discovery.
10 and... 10 Is there a reason why you didn't provide any?
11 Q. Did he express to you any concerns about 11 A. I didn't think there were any, and if
12 Gabby? 12 there were I'm sure I provided them.
13 A. No. 13 Q. Did you look?
14 Q. He didn't tell you about the Moab 14 A. Yeah, we looked for everything. Yeah, we
15 incident, but did he tell you whether or not they 15 looked for everything and provided everything.
16 were having difficulty getting along? 16 Q. Okay. You said you texted him. Did you
17 A. No. He didn't say anything like that. 17 keep -- did you keep the copies -- strike that.
18 Q. He didn't say anything about any arguments 18 Did you keep the text messages in your phone?
19 between them? 19 A. Yes. I have -- I have -- I don't delete
20 A. No. 20 any, but sometimes my phone after awhile deletes
21 Q. He said -- is it fair to say he said 21 messages.
22 nothing that caused you any concern about their 22 Q. Do you still have the text messages
23 relationship? 23 between you and Brian?
24 A. Yeah. I had no concern. 24 A. No, because when he bought a new phone and
25 Q. What was his demeanor and his attitude 25 I answered his new number, it automatically erased --
38 40
1 when he came home at that point in time? 1 erased all the old texts. I didn't know it was going
2 A. We had a very nice week, and he was happy 2 to do that. I didn't realize.
3 to see his nephews and his sister, and he seemed 3 Q. Did you try to recover them?
4 fine. 4 A. No. I didn't even know you could or how
5 Q. When he left to go back to Salt Lake City 5 to go about doing that.
6 what was his attitude and demeanor? 6 Q. So your testimony is that after he bought
7 A. As I recall, just fine. Nothing specific. 7 a new phone, it deleted all of the texts on your
8 Q. Was he excited about going back? 8 phone from his -- strike that.
9 A. Yeah. He was just going back. I don't 9 Your testimony is that when he bought a new
10 know. He wasn't excited. He wasn't upset. He was 10 phone, all the text communications between Brian and
11 just going back and I think he was looking forward 11 you which were on your phone were deleted?
12 to his farming in the fall, and everything seemed 12 A. Yes, because when I put in the new phone
13 good. 13 number -- I don't know -- it just did it. I put a
14 Q. Other than telephone while he -- Brian was 14 new phone number in for Brian and it just -- if I had
15 on that trip with Gabby, did you communicate with him 15 added him as another Brian, like Brian One, Brian
16 in any other way? 16 Two, I probably would have kept it, but because I
17 A. Can you say that again? 17 added a new phone it just deleted all the old texts.
18 Q. Sure. Other than by telephone -- while 18 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 1 marked for
19 Brian was on his trip from June through September 1st 19 identification.)
20 of 2021, other than by telephone did you communicate 20 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) I'm going to hand you
21 with him in any other way? 21 what I've marked as Exhibit 1 for today's deposition,
22 A. I don't recall. I might have e-mailed 22 which I'll represent to you are phone records that
23 him, but that was pretty much -- either we talked on 23 we've received for your cell phone from AT&T, and if
24 the phone, texted -- but he wasn't much of an 24 you look on that first page underneath the line
25 e-mailer, so I would only e-mail him if it was -- I 25 across the top, three lines down, it says, "Voice
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41 43
1 usage for -3557." That's your cell phone 1 A. Oh, at 1 o'clock in the morning?
2 number, correct? 2 Q. I'm sorry. That's a call to Brian. I'm
3 A. Okay. So I look at the first page and I 3 sorry.
4 go down four lines? 4 A. Oh, okay. Yeah, I normally wouldn't...
5 Q. Well, there's a line all the way across 5 Q. Do you know why you were calling Brian on
6 the top of the page, right? 6 August 16 at 1:11 a.m. in the morning?
7 A. This? 7 A. Yeah. Was that the day I called him?
8 Q. Yes. If you go three lines down from 8 Okay. I think that was --
9 that, it says, "Voice usage for." 9 Q. Well, the call didn't go through. To the
10 A. Oh, got it. 10 best of my knowledge it went to voicemail.
11 Q. And is that your telephone number? 11 A. Huh.
12 A. Yes. 12 Q. Do you know --
13 Q. Okay. Turn, please, to page 15, and let 13 A. On August 16th?
14 me know when you're there. 14 Q. Yes.
15 A. Oh, I'm there. 15 A. I wonder if I dialed when I was sick? I'm
16 Q. Okay. There's an item at the top and it 16 not even up at 1:00 in the morning. I really cannot
17 has numbers. I want you to look at line 231. 17 recall.
18 A. Okay. 18 Q. Are you normally up at that time?
19 Q. And according to this record on August 5th 19 A. No.
20 of 2021 Brian called you and you spoke for 54 20 Q. Okay.
21 minutes. 21 A. And I am not making phone calls either.
22 A. Oh, August 5th? So we did talk. That was 22 Q. Then 7 o'clock that evening, if you look
23 August 5th, '21. Okay. So we talked. 23 at line -- turn to the next page -- line 3 -- so now
24 Q. That was a pretty long conversation. Do 24 we're on page 21, line 334. You contacted at 7:06
25 you recall what you and he talked about during that 25 Attorney Bertolino's office number.
42 44
1 call? 1 A. I'm sorry. I'm just confused on the date.
2 A. Not at all. I guess just catching up. I 2 August 16th I called him at 3:30? What?
3 could guess we were catching up. 3 Q. At 7 -- on August 16 at 7:06.
4 Q. Turn to page 20, please, and looking at 4 A. So we're looking at what line again? I'm
5 line 316 there's another call on August 14, 2021, at 5 sorry.
6 about 8:55 at night from you to Brian that lasted 25 6 Q. 334.
7 minutes. Do you see that? 7 A. 334? August 16th at 3:00 in the morning?
8 A. Yes. August 14th, 25 minutes. I called 8 Q. No, no. August 16 at 7:06 p.m. --
9 him, right. 9 A. At 7:06 p.m. on August 16th?
10 Q. No. He called you. 10 Q. -- you called Attorney Bertolino's office.
11 A. Oh, he called me? 11 A. I called his office?
12 Q. Yes. 12 MR. GILBERT: Can I make a --
13 A. Okay. 13 THE WITNESS: What time is that?
14 Q. Do you recall what that call was about? 14 MR. GILBERT: Can I make a point or maybe
15 A. Was that maybe for his trip maybe if he 15 clarify something with you? The time that is
16 came on the 17th? So we were probably planning his 16 showing on here says UTC.
17 flight and all that stuff. 17 MR. REILLY: Um-hum.
18 Q. And that was two days after the Moab 18 MR. GILBERT: Which I just had to look up.
19 incident, and you didn't discuss the Moab incident 19 I think that's like Googled Greenwich Mean Time.
20 with him in that call? 20 MR. REILLY: Okay.
21 A. No. 21 MR. GILBERT: So, you know, 1:00 a.m. it
22 Q. On that same page, two days after your 22 wouldn't have been 1:00 a.m. where she was or
23 call with Brian, looking at line 324 on August 16 of 23 where Brian was, I believe.
24 2021 at 1 o'clock in the morning you called Attorney 24 MR. REILLY: All right.
25 Bertolino. 25 MR. GILBERT: That's not testimony. I
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45 47
1 just want to make sure. 1 A. I know she had her mail forwarded. I
2 MR. REILLY: Whatever UTC time it is, it 2 don't remember if I helped her with it. I would help
3 is, so. 3 her with a lot of things because like sometimes she
4 MR. GILBERT: Yeah. 4 would have trouble with -- like I remember helping
5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 her look for a check in her check log. She didn't
6 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) But do you know why you 6 know how to do it, so I might have helped her do the
7 would have been calling Attorney Bertolino's office 7 mail. Or maybe she asked me to do it. I don't
8 at that time? 8 recall. But I do remember she wanted her mail
9 A. If I was calling -- 9 forwarded.
10 Q. Well, I'm sorry. Not at that time. Do 10 Q. All right. Let's turn to page 25, please,
11 you know why on August 16 you were calling Attorney 11 and look at page -- line 399. On August 26 of 2021
12 Bertolino's office? 12 at 3 o'clock in the afternoon you contacted Attorney
13 A. How long was the call? Maybe I was just 13 Bertolino's office again. Do you see that?
14 talking to one of the secretaries about -- I know we 14 A. Yes.
15 had sold a property that he was investing with Chris, 15 Q. Do you know why you contacted his office
16 so maybe it was -- I don't know. 16 on that date?
17 Q. Okay. Give me a second because I want to 17 A. August 26th? What was August 26th? No.
18 convert UTC time to eastern time. 18 How long was that call? I don't --
19 A. Okay. 19 Q. Prior to August 28th of 2021 did you have
20 MR. GILBERT: Tell me what you find. 20 any reason to call Attorney Bertolino regarding your
21 MR. BERTOLINO: It's 1:57 p.m. UTC time 21 son Brian?
22 now. 22 A. Can you repeat it again.
23 MR. REILLY: Right now? 23 Q. Prior to August 28 of 2021 did you have
24 MR. BERTOLINO: So four hours ahead. 24 any reason to call Attorney Bertolino regarding your
25 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Okay. So if it's four 25 son Brian?
46 48
1 hours ahead, then a phone call at 7 o'clock would 1 A. Not regarding Brian.
2 have been at 3 o'clock. Okay? 2 Q. Okay. And if you look immediately the
3 A. Okay. So, I mean, I did call the office 3 next line down, 400, same date, 8/26 of 2021, at
4 now and then for other reasons, and I do have a 4 3:36, about a half an hour after you called him,
5 friend that works in the office, and then we did -- 5 there was a call to your phone from his office. Do
6 we do investments with him, so -- but I don't 6 you see that?
7 remember the reason at all I called him. 7 A. On 8/26? So I called his office at 1707,
8 Q. And to the extent that we previously 8 and they must have called me back at 1736?
9 talked about times, specific times with regard 9 Q. Yes.
10 to your phone calls, the phone calls would actually 10 A. Yeah.
11 have been four hours earlier than what we talked 11 Q. Again, do you know what that phone call
12 about. 12 was about?
13 A. So when I called him at 1:00 in the 13 A. No. I would just have to assume it was
14 morning -- 14 business related.
15 Q. You would have been calling him at 10:00? 15 Q. Okay. Turn to page 26 please, line 411.
16 9 o'clock. 16 On August 28 at -- it would have been 16, so that
17 A. 9:00? Okay. I was just calling. 17 would be 4:18 in the afternoon, Brian placed a phone
18 Q. Okay. By the way, after Brian and Gabby 18 call to your phone, correct?
19 went on their trip did you change her mailing address 19 A. Yes.
20 to have everything forwarded to New York? 20 Q. And according to my understanding of the
21 A. I know she had wanted her mail forwarded, 21 record, that went to voice mail.
22 and I don't remember if she did it or I did it, but I 22 A. Okay.
23 know she wanted her mail forwarded. I don't 23 Q. And then same day at 5:38 Brian called you
24 remember. 24 again and again it went to voicemail. Do you see
25 Q. Okay. 25 that?
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49 51
1 A. Yes, I do. 1 couldn't talk and you were on the beach?
2 Q. And then the same day, at August 28th, 2 A. Fine. Fine, normal.
3 2011, at 5:39 you and Brian had a phone call for 7 3 Q. Do you recall what this phone call was on
4 minutes and 23 seconds. 4 August 29th at about 3:30 -- 3:20 in the afternoon?
5 A. Okay. 5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Do you recall what you spoke about? 6 Q. What was that about?
7 A. Yeah, those -- those I remember. I saw 7 A. I don't remember exactly which call
8 that he was trying to call me, but I was with my 8 it was. I don't know. But I remember that we had a
9 grandson on the beach, so I figured I'll call him 9 long -- a long talk. I thought we talked for a long
10 tonight or something when I have a chance. And then 10 time, and it was -- I just told him all about our
11 I guess he finally got a hold of me here, and I said 11 summer, what we were doing, caught him up with
12 I'm with N on the beach. I can't really talk. 12 information about the boys, told him about the race,
13 It's windy. I can't really hear. So he ended up 13 told him about the weekend at Daytona. So I do
14 just talking with N for a while. 14 remember that conversation.
15 Q. Okay. So yesterday your husband said -- 15 Q. This is the day that your husband said you
16 well, I guess that wasn't the day the stuff hit the 16 had a phone conversation with him when the stuff hit
17 fan. I guess it's the next day. So your 17 the fan.
18 recollection is at that point at 5:23 he was talking 18 A. Yeah, I remember at the very tail end of
19 to your grandson? 19 that conversation with him where everything seemed
20 A. Yes. 20 fine, as we were saying good-bye he all of a sudden
21 Q. And then down at line 418, that would have 21 completely changed and he sounded very upset, and his
22 been at about 7:30, there was another phone call from 22 voice was very upset and I didn't know why and I
23 Brian to you, correct? 23 didn't want to push him, so I -- we just said
24 A. Yes. 24 good-bye, but it left on a very -- he was very upset,
25 Q. And do you recall talking to him for 10 25 and so when I got off the phone I told Chris, you
50 52
1 minutes and 13 seconds at that time? 1 know, "Brian sounded upset. Maybe you should give
2 A. You know, it's funny. I don't recall. I 2 him a call."
3 thought he only talked to N , but I guess I talked 3 Q. Well, according to the records that I have
4 to him that day, too, a little bit. I didn't 4 your husband didn't talk to Brian until -- I'll
5 remember that. 5 withdraw that.
6 Q. Do you know what you talked about? 6 According to the records I have, you spoke with
7 A. Probably just telling him about -- I don't 7 Brian for an extended period of time on the 29th. It
8 remember exactly, but probably just how are you doing 8 looks like it's for a total of 54 minutes. Does that
9 and the race and -- 9 sound correct?
10 Q. Okay. 10 A. Maybe that was the call where I said you
11 A. -- the boys talked about the race and 11 should call Brian back.
12 everything. 12 Q. Okay.
13 Q. On that same page at line 423, August 29 13 A. We talked twice that same day. Maybe we
14 of 2021, at about 3:20 in the afternoon there was a 14 talked earlier and then talked again later. I don't
15 phone call placed to your phone from Brian, correct? 15 remember.
16 A. I see that one and, actually, I wanted to 16 Q. Well, I think -- this is just my
17 clarify. I just remembered something from the last 17 interpretation of these records. I could be wrong.
18 phone call. I remember saying, "I can't really talk
18 But if you add up the 36:37 and 17:51, it totals
19 long. I'm at the beach, but when I get home tomorrow
19 54:28. So that's why I'm thinking the phone call
20 we'll talk."
20 was -- I don't know why they split it up, but that's
21 what I --
21 Q. Okay.
22 A. Oh, so it was one -- you think it was one
22 A. So I did remember just now that other
23 call?
23 phone call.
24 Q. It was one call.
24 Q. Okay. How was -- how did Brian sound to
25 A. Maybe we got cut out and redialed or
25 you when he called you on that day, when you said you
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53 55
1 something. 1 got off the phone with him.
2 Q. Okay. 2 Q. Okay. And what did you understand "gone"
3 A. I don't know. 3 to mean?
4 MR. GILBERT: And it looks to me, too, 4 A. I wasn't sure. I didn't -- I don't even
5 like the line 423 and line 424 -- it's showing 5 remember what I thought. I just know from the tone
6 that they began at the same time. 6 of Chris's voice it was something serious.
7 MR. REILLY: Yeah. That's why I think 7 Q. Okay. Your husband described his voice as
8 that. 8 "frantic." Would you agree when you spoke with him
9 MR. GILBERT: Yeah. 9 he was frantic?
10 MR. REILLY: That's why I think that's a 10 A. I would just say upset. I don't think he
11 total period of the call. 11 was frantic. He was definitely upset. He didn't --
12 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) So if you were -- if you 12 he was very upset. He didn't sound like himself. I
13 were on the phone for 55 minutes at that time, which 13 knew something was wrong.
14 would have been from like 4:30 to 5:30, your husband 14 Q. And you didn't ask him what was wrong?
15 immediately after that phone call contacted Attorney 15 A. Well, it was as we were saying good-bye
16 Bertolino, according to the records that I have. Do 16 and I didn't want to push him and I just thought,
17 you know why after you got off the phone or maybe 17 well, maybe he's just sad to say good-bye. It wasn't
18 even while you were on the phone with Brian he 18 until I got off that I thought no, he sounded more
19 contacted Attorney Bertolino? 19 than just sad.
20 A. I thought that he called Brian after he 20 Q. You had a good relationship with your son.
21 got off the phone with me and spoke with Brian or 21 A. (No response.)
22 Brian called him. 22 Q. Yes?
23 Q. According to the records that I have, and 23 A. Yes.
24 I think I reviewed them with your husband yesterday, 24 Q. You knew he was upset. Yes?
25 he called Attorney Bertolino at 4:23 p.m., and he 25 A. Yes.
54 56
1 didn't call Brian until 4 -- about 20 minutes later. 1 Q. But you just said good-bye?
2 A. Oh, I don't know then. I'm confused. I'm 2 A. Yeah. I just thought he was sad to say
3 not reading it right. 3 good-bye, and I don't like to -- I figured if he has
4 Q. Well, did your -- did Brian tell you in 4 anything he wants to talk about, he could talk about
5 the conversation that he needed a lawyer? 5 it. I don't like to push people and say what's
6 A. No. 6 wrong, what's wrong. We were saying good-bye and
7 Q. And you can't explain why either 7 it was just at the tail end of the conversation.
8 immediately after you were speaking with Brian or 8 Q. Okay. So you knew he was upset. Yes?
9 during the phone call your husband called Attorney 9 A. Yes.
10 Bertolino? 10 Q. Your husband told you that Gabby was
11 A. No. I thought he called Brian. Huh. I 11 "gone," correct?
12 don't know. 12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did you speak with Attorney Bertolino that 13 Q. Phone calls were made to Attorney
14 day? 14 Bertolino, correct?
15 A. No. Oh, did I? Wait. I don't recall. 15 A. Right.
16 Q. After that phone call that you had with 16 Q. Why would you make a phone call to
17 Brian on the 29th, when is the next time -- strike 17 Attorney Bertolino if you didn't know what "gone"
18 that. 18 meant?
19 Your husband testified yesterday that Brian told 19 A. Well, Chris had told me Brian wanted him
20 him that Gabby was gone. Did Brian ever tell you 20 to call a lawyer.
21 that? 21 Q. And you didn't say why?
22 A. No. 22 A. I think that's when Chris was telling me
23 Q. Okay. How did you find out that Gabby was 23 that Brian said, "Gabby's gone and please call a
24 gone? 24 lawyer."
25 A. I guess Chris must have told me after he 25 Q. Okay. So if "Gabby's gone, please call a
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1 lawyer" -- doesn't that say to you she's dead? 1 time.
2 A. I didn't know what to think. I don't 2 Q. Well, from the time that you had that
3 remember if that crossed my mind or if I just was so 3 conversation on August 29 until September 1, 2021,
4 nervous I just thought he was in some kind of 4 did it go through your mind that your son may have
5 trouble. I didn't know. 5 murdered Gabby?
6 Q. What other possible explanation could 6 A. I can't recall.
7 there be for, "She's gone, please call a lawyer"? 7 Q. Something as significant as your son
8 A. A lot of things ran through my head. 8 committing a murder, which you now know he did, you
9 Possibly they got in a fight and, you know, maybe 9 can't recall if you remember thinking that back in
10 she's going to press charges against him or 10 August and September of 2021?
11 something? I didn't know. 11 MR. GILBERT: Objection. She's answered
12 Q. Well, did you -- 12 that already.
13 A. I thought -- 13 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) But you can answer it.
14 Q. Did you ask? 14 A. I don't remember all the thoughts I
15 A. Well, I -- I didn't call Brian after that. 15 thought. I was panicking and thinking a lot of
16 I don't know if we talked again that day. 16 thoughts, and it's hard to think back to a time with
17 Q. Your son's upset. Your husband says he 17 new information what you thought at the time, but it
18 says Gabby's gone. Your husband says call a lawyer. 18 probably -- it probably went through my mind.
19 You call a lawyer. And you never call your son back 19 Q. Can you tell me back in August on August
20 immediately and say what's going on, what's 20 29th of 2021 that the thought of Brian murdering
21 happening? 21 Gabby didn't go through your head?
22 A. I think I spoke to him finally later in 22 A. I can't remember specifically it went
23 the day. I think -- I thought I called him back that 23 through -- what went through my head.
24 night, but, you know, it was two years ago and I 24 Q. When Brian came home -- well, strike that.
25 don't remember exactly, but I thought I did call him 25 How did it end up that Brian came home?
58 60
1 back later that night, but by that point I think our 1 A. I think that night, but I can't recall
2 attorney had said just don't talk to him about 2 with the records, but I thought that that night he
3 anything. He'll talk to Brian. 3 called back and said, "I'm driving home."
4 Q. Can you tell me any possible option based 4 Q. Who did he speak with?
5 on the circumstances as you knew them on August 29 -- 5 A. Me.
6 your son's upset, his conversation with your husband, 6 Q. On August 29th?
7 Gabby's gone, call a lawyer -- any other possible 7 A. I thought so, but now, well, my memory, I
8 explanation other than she was dead? 8 guess, could be wrong, but I thought that night --
9 MR. MELTZ: Objection. Asked and 9 unless it was the next night, but I thought that
10 answered. 10 night he said he was driving home.
11 THE WITNESS: That's what I was going to 11 Q. According to the phone records that I've
12 say. 12 reviewed, after 4:37 in the afternoon on August 29th
13 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) But you can answer it. 13 you had no further telephone conversations with your
14 A. Oh, a lot of things crossed my mind and 14 son that day.
15 one of them was that maybe they got in a fight and 15 A. Oh, okay.
16 maybe she's going to press charges against him for 16 Q. You tried to call him at 7:12 p.m. and
17 maybe he hit her or something, which that was one 17 left a voice mail message or maybe left a voice mail
18 that ran through my mind. A lot of things went
18 message. You tried to call and didn't connect with
19 through my mind of what do you need a lawyer for,
19 him.
20 but --
20 A. Okay.
21 Q. If you'll turn to page 27, line 432, on
21 Q. But the fact that maybe he murdered her
22 August 30 of 2021 he tried to call you at 8:07, so
22 went through your mind, didn't it?
23 I'm guessing that would have probably been the 29th.
23 A. I don't know if I even wanted to -- I
24 He tried to call you, but that went to voice mail.
24 think I was so panicky, it might have gone through my
25 A. Okay.
25 mind. I can't recall what I was thinking at the
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1 Q. On the same date at 8:13:15, which I think 1 things were -- so I think I was just telling him, you
2 would be August 29, he tried to call you again, but 2 know, if you're coming home -- I don't remember what
3 the call didn't go through. It was unanswered. 3 we talked about. I just remember he said he was
4 A. Okay. 4 coming home, and I didn't -- I didn't ask him
5 MR. GILBERT: What line is that? 5 anything.
6 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) That's 435. I'm sorry if 6 Q. If Gabby had just walked off on her own,
7 I didn't say what line it was. 7 would you have told your son to drive home in her van
8 And perhaps you did speak with him. Hold on 8 with all of her stuff in it?
9 just a second. 9 A. No. I didn't tell him to drive home. He
10 At line 439 on August 30 -- August 29, excuse 10 just said he was on his way home, and I thought it
11 me, at what would have been 10:38 at night there's a 11 really is Brian's van. Maybe her parents would pick
12 22-minute phone call with him. Is that when you 12 her up or come get her. I don't know.
13 recall having the phone call with him? 13 Q. Well, you told me the title -- that you
14 A. Yeah. I remember it was before I was 14 saw the title was in Gabby's name, so why would you
15 going to bed, and I think Chris was already asleep, 15 think it was Brian's van?
16 and I remember he said he was going to -- he was 16 A. Because I believed he paid for it. He
17 driving home. 17 worked on it. I believed it was his, and I think it
18 Q. Your husband was already asleep at that 18 was just a nice gesture that he put it in her name.
19 point after getting a phone call from your son that 19 I knew that she couldn't afford to pay for her or
20 Gabby was gone, he was frantic, call a lawyer? 20 didn't want to pay for her -- she was leasing a car
21 A. Was that all the same day? 21 and she didn't want -- and Brian was paying for the
22 Q. Yes. 22 lease, and she finally drove home and left the car at
23 A. Well, it was a long weekend. We'd been 23 her parents' house, and so I think he just wanted to
24 away. We'd been at the beach with the kids and the 24 put the van in her name to be nice, but I don't
25 race, and he falls asleep early. 25 remember her ever driving it even.
62 64
1 Q. What did you speak with Brian about on 1 Q. So when you learned your son was on the
2 August 29th at about 10 o'clock? 2 way back, you didn't say to him, "Wait a minute.
3 A. That was when he said he was driving home. 3 What about Gabby? You have all her belongings in the
4 Q. And in that conversation with him did you 4 van. You can't just leave her there."
5 ask him any details about Gabby being gone? 5 A. Well --
6 A. No. 6 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
7 Q. Why not? 7 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) You can answer.
8 A. I don't know. I guess I was nervous, 8 A. Oh. I just figured, you know, it was his
9 upset, tired. I think at that point Steven had 9 van. And I know when my daughter broke up with her
10 already said don't talk about anything. I can't 10 boyfriend, they divided the belongings later.
11 remember. 11 Sometimes, you know --
12 Q. Well, this is -- 12 Q. Did your -- did your daughter kill her
13 A. I don't. 13 boyfriend?
14 Q. This is a girl you told me you loved. 14 A. I never asked.
15 Someone you loved, someone who was going to become a 15 Q. You never asked?
16 part of your family, and you asked no questions about 16 A. They broke up, and I never asked my
17 her of your son when you learned that she was gone, 17 daughter why they broke up. I mean, you know, when
18 correct? 18 people break up I don't ask the details.
19 A. Correct. 19 Q. Did you have any concerns that the young
20 Q. Weren't you concerned about her? 20 lady that you loved, who you described as sweet,
21 A. I was, but I think I was -- it was my son. 21 loving, friendly, someone who was going to be your
22 I was concerned for my son. 22 daughter-in-law, part of your family, she lived with
23 Q. What were you concerned about your son? 23 you, did you have any concerns that her body might
24 A. He was driving home. He was upset. I 24 have been laying out somewhere unprotected?
25 knew he wanted Chris to call a lawyer, and so I knew 25 A. No, I didn't think that, but I was
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1 concerned for her well-being because I cared about 1 A. No.
2 her, but my son's driving home and I'm nervous for 2 Q. Did you see Brian bringing things into the
3 him and... 3 house?
4 Q. Oh, you're concerned about her well-being. 4 A. Not -- I think so. I think I recall him
5 So what did you do about her well-being? 5 bringing stuff in.
6 A. Well, just, you know, Gabrielle -- I 6 Q. Was some of it Gabby's stuff?
7 thought she always was -- could take care of herself, 7 A. I didn't look at what he was bringing
8 and I was just concerned about my son at the time and 8 in.
9 I just figured maybe her parents could come get her 9 Q. You know that eventually her stuff was
10 or she would -- last time he left her in a hotel. 10 found inside your house, correct?
11 Maybe, you know -- 11 A. Yes.
12 Q. How would her parents come and get her? 12 Q. Including her laptop?
13 A. Like they could drive out or fly out. 13 A. Oh, I don't remember what they found.
14 Q. And where would they go? 14 They gave me a list of things they took, but I don't
15 A. Well, I don't know. Wherever she was. 15 remember if her laptop was there.
16 Q. Where was she? 16 Q. Okay. So when Brian gets home you
17 A. Out west on their vacation, their trip. 17 expressed your concern about Gabby. Did you ask him
18 Q. Where in particular? 18 about Gabby?
19 A. Actually, you know, I don't -- I didn't 19 A. No. I think by that time my attorney
20 really follow, keep track of where they were on their 20 advised me just not to talk about anything, so I just
21 vacation. 21 gave him something to eat and we didn't talk about
22 Q. You had Gabby's phone number, didn't you? 22 anything.
23 A. Yes. 23 Q. As a mother, as someone who had loved
24 Q. You're concerned about her well-being. 24 Gabby, despite what your lawyer said, why didn't you
25 Did you try to call her? 25 ask questions of your son?
66 68
1 A. No. 1 MR. GILBERT: Objection to the form. You
2 Q. Did you text her? 2 can answer.
3 A. No. 3 THE WITNESS: Okay. But that's what
4 Q. Did you take any effort to try to 4 Steven told us to do and that's just what I
5 communicate with her and see if she was okay? 5 did.
6 A. Well, no, because I was just concerned 6 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Okay. So you could write
7 about my son and -- I don't know. 7 her off that easily?
8 Q. You were concerned about your son -- 8 MR. GILBERT: Objection.
9 A. Yeah. 9 THE WITNESS: I wasn't writing her off.
10 Q. -- because you knew he murdered Gabby, 10 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Why didn't you contact
11 right? 11 Joe Petito and Nichole Schmidt?
12 A. No. 12 MR. GILBERT: Objection. It's been asked
13 MR. GILBERT: Objection. 13 and answered.
14 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) You can answer. 14 MR. REILLY: I never asked her that
15 A. No. Just because I was concerned that he 15 question.
16 was upset and I knew he needed a lawyer, and I hope 16 THE WITNESS: Well, just my attorney told
17 not. I mean, I just -- it was a terrible thing and I 17 me not to talk to anybody, so I just didn't talk
18 hope not. 18 to anybody.
19 Q. So Brian gets home September 1st in 19 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Had you met Nichole
20 Gabby's van, correct? 20 Schmidt before?
21 A. Yes. 21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And all of Gabby's stuff was in the van, 22 Q. On how many occasions?
23 correct?
23 A. Once -- twice.
24 A. I don't know what was in the van.
24 Q. Had you ever met Joe Petito?
25 Q. You never looked inside the van?
25 A. Never.
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1 Q. Did Nichole Schmidt after September 1st 1 hadn't you?
2 ever try to contact you by phone? 2 A. I believe it was the same weekend, but
3 A. After September 1st? Yes. 3 maybe a longer time frame.
4 Q. Did you answer the call? 4 MR. REILLY: Let's take a break.
5 A. No. 5 (Recess taken from 10:27 to 10:37 a.m.)
6 Q. Okay. Because of your attorney's advice? 6 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Mrs. Laundrie, at some
7 A. Yes. 7 point Brian left your house, and I think your husband
8 Q. Did she send you a text? 8 testified yesterday that was September 13th. Does
9 A. Yes. 9 that sound correct?
10 Q. And did you answer the text? 10 A. Yes.
11 A. No. 11 Q. By the way, does Mr. Bertolino still
12 Q. Because of your attorney's advice? 12 represent you and your husband?
13 A. Yes. 13 A. I believe so, yes.
14 Q. Did you block her on your phone? 14 Q. For what, without going into details?
15 A. No. 15 Anything related to this case?
16 Q. Okay. Did she reach out to you through 16 A. I always think of him as my attorney for
17 Facebook Messenger? 17 everything, but -- so, yeah. For this case?
18 A. I don't know. I wasn't really -- no, not 18 Q. Okay.
19 that I know of. I wasn't really on Facebook. 19 A. I guess, so, yeah. That's why he's here,
20 Q. Did you and Brian ever communicate through 20 right?
21 Facebook Messenger? 21 Q. So when Brian left what was his demeanor?
22 A. I don't believe so, no. I don't even know 22 A. When he left that morning to go hiking, he
23 if he had a Facebook, unless it was like in high 23 was just going hiking.
24 school. 24 Q. You knew he was leaving to go hiking?
25 Q. Since August 29th of 2021 have you ever 25 A. Yes.
70 72
1 tried to reach out to Joseph Petito or Nichole 1 Q. Attorney Bertolino has stated on several
2 Schmidt? 2 occasions that Brian was grieving when he left. Was
3 A. No. 3 he grieving?
4 Q. When Brian came home what did you do? 4 A. I didn't see him as grieving. I wouldn't
5 What did the three of you do, you, Brian and your 5 use the word grieving. I don't know. He was, I
6 husband? 6 guess, worried and concerned, and I know he was
7 A. We mostly stayed home, prepared meals, 7 talking to Steven on the phone and -- but we tried to
8 went out to dinner, I think, once or twice, and 8 keep things -- Steven Bertolino told us just keep him
9 watched TV. Not much. 9 close and keep him calm, and that's what we did.
10 Q. You went on vacation, didn't you? 10 Q. Did you ever see him as grieving after he
11 A. Oh, yes, yes, and we went overnight to 11 returned on September 1st?
12 Fort DeSoto because we had reservations. We had just 12 A. I don't know if I -- I don't know what he
13 bought a camper and we wanted to test it out. 13 was thinking or feeling.
14 Q. Your life went on as normal? 14 Q. He was your son, right?
15 A. Well, we did -- we did normal things, yes. 15 A. (Nods head affirmatively.)
16 Q. How could you go on vacation knowing that 16 Q. Yes?
17 Gabby was gone while the Petito family was looking 17 A. Yes.
18 for her?
18 Q. And you never discussed what happened out
19 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
19 in Wyoming with him?
20 THE WITNESS: We just had planned to go
20 A. No.
21 Q. Did Attorney Bertolino tell you why you
21 and test out the camper overnight, and we were
22 shouldn't discuss it with him?
22 just doing our regular things. I didn't -- and
23 A. No. He just told us keep him safe, keep
23 I don't know.
24 him close, and don't talk to him about anything. He
24 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Well, you had had a
25 was representing Brian. That was his -- Brian was
25 reservation for Fort DeSoto for a different time,
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1 Steven's client and that was it, and we just stayed 1 Q. What were your worries?
2 in the background, kept him safe, kept him close. 2 A. That Brian would be okay.
3 Q. Did Mr. Bertolino tell you not to speak 3 Q. Okay about what?
4 with Brian about what happened out in Wyoming so that 4 A. Whatever the issue was that he had to deal
5 you wouldn't know whether he did or didn't murder 5 with with Steven and Gabrielle and it would end well.
6 Gabby? 6 That was my hope.
7 MR. GILBERT: Objection to the form, but 7 Q. And what did you think maybe that issue
8 you can answer. 8 was?
9 THE WITNESS: I don't know why Steven gave 9 A. I wasn't sure and I didn't want to ask
10 us the advice he gave us. It's just what he 10 and -- because I was told not to ask, and so I just
11 gave us. 11 kept Brian close, kept him home and safe, and didn't
12 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Well, as a mother you 12 talk to him about anything and hoped for the best.
13 have a natural instinct to want to speak with your 13 Q. So on August 29th you learned from Brian
14 child if he's hurting, don't you? 14 that Gabby's gone, correct?
15 A. Yes. 15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did you have that natural instinct with 16 Q. And did you think maybe she just walked
17 Brian when he came home after September 1st? 17 off somewhere?
18 A. Well, not to talk to him and pump him for 18 A. That was another thought that I thought,
19 questions, but certainly to love him and feed him and 19 yeah.
20 hug him and, you know, give him lots of love and keep 20 Q. Had she ever done that before?
21 him safe and close -- 21 A. She often wouldn't come home at night or
22 Q. So you didn't -- 22 would disappear. Like I was having a family dinner
23 A. -- as our attorney advised us. 23 party and she didn't show up for it, and it turned
24 Q. Sorry. Are you finished? 24 out she was in New York, but hadn't mentioned it.
25 A. Yes. 25 And so, no, I didn't really keep track of her. She
74 76
1 Q. So you didn't want to know what it was 1 was independent.
2 that was making him so upset? 2 Q. So what periods of time would she
3 A. Well, I just followed Steven's advice and 3 disappear for?
4 I, you know, left -- I tried not to -- I left him 4 A. Sometimes she'd go out at night and we
5 be. 5 didn't know where she was until 4:00 in the morning,
6 Q. So you put your motherly instinct aside 6 but she's not our daughter. I'm not going to tell
7 and followed an attorney's advice? 7 her she can't go out at night. And sometimes she
8 A. Well, I think it was my motherly instinct 8 would -- for instance, we were going to have a
9 to follow the attorney's advice to do what was best 9 holiday and I -- she knew I shopped and cooked, and
10 for my son, and that's what I was doing. 10 the recipes she liked, and planned a recipe, and then
11 Q. Were you concerned your son was going to 11 she just wasn't there. And I thought oh, she's not
12 go to prison? 12 going to be here for Easter? And it turned out she'd
13 A. At that time I don't remember if that 13 gone back to New York.
14 thought crossed my mind. 14 So, you know, she wasn't mine to -- if it was my
15 Q. Well, that would be a pretty traumatic 15 daughter, I would have said why didn't you tell me
16 thing, wouldn't it? 16 you weren't going to be here for Easter, or you
17 A. My son going to prison? 17 should be here for Easter, but she wasn't my
18 Q. Yeah. 18 daughter. She's allowed to come and go as she
19 A. Yes. 19 pleases and I'm not going to -- it's different when
20 Q. And you can't remember if back in 20 you live with your daughter. This is just the
21 September of 2021 the thought of your son going to 21 girlfriend of my son. It's not my place to -- you
22 prison ever crossed your mind? 22 know, she's allowed to come and go as she pleases.
23 A. I don't remember. I had a lot of worries 23 Q. What was the longest period of time she
24 and I don't remember every thought or worry 24 disappeared for?
25 specifically. 25 A. Well, I guess when she went back for
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1 Easter. I didn't know if even she was coming back. 1 Q. Well, you're the one who retained him, you
2 I don't know how many days that was. 2 and your husband.
3 Q. Okay. Did it turn into weeks? 3 A. Right.
4 A. No, probably not. 4 Q. Can you tell me what you retained Attorney
5 Q. Okay. So there came a point when Gabby 5 Bertolino for?
6 was gone for a longer period than she's ever been 6 A. Later we retained Attorney Bertolino to
7 gone before, right? 7 defend us against the plaintiffs, Petito and Schmidt,
8 A. Well, maybe they broke up. I don't know. 8 versus me and my husband.
9 But that probably was the longest period, yes. 9 Q. Yesterday your husband testified that when
10 Q. And had there ever been a time when Gabby 10 he sent that $25,000 check it was to represent you
11 left for a period of time and Brian was upset and 11 and he and your son. Do you recall him saying that?
12 frantic and asked for a lawyer? 12 A. I do.
13 A. No. 13 Q. Okay. Is he incorrect?
14 Q. Yesterday your husband said that at some 14 A. Yeah. It was my -- I don't know if he's
15 point a $25,000 retainer was given to Attorney 15 incorrect, but it was my understanding -- we might
16 Bertolino. Do you remember him saying that? 16 just have different understandings, but it was my
17 A. Yes. 17 understanding it was to retain the attorneys out
18 Q. Do you remember when that was that that 18 west.
19 check was given? 19 Q. Okay. Do you have any reason to believe
20 A. Early September, but I don't have the 20 you were in need of an attorney when that retainer
21 exact date. 21 was sent to Attorney Bertolino?
22 Q. Brian arrives home on September 1st. How 22 A. No.
23 soon after that is the check issued to Attorney 23 Q. Okay. To your knowledge were you ever the
24 Bertolino? 24 subject of a criminal investigation?
25 A. Probably that very day. 25 A. Was I ever -- I believe so, yes.
78 80
1 Q. Okay. So when Attorney Bertolino said in 1 Q. When?
2 the press he wasn't retained until September 11th, 2 A. Well, sometime after -- well, while Brian
3 that is not correct, correct? 3 was missing my attorney informed me that the FBI
4 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form. 4 wanted to question me. So if that's considered an
5 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't believe that 5 investigation, then yes.
6 check was to retain Mr. Bertolino. 6 Q. Question you about what?
7 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Why were you giving 7 A. I guess if I knew where Brian was, or I
8 Mr. Bertolino $25,000? 8 don't know what they wanted to question me about.
9 A. He was going to retain lawyers out west in 9 I think they said something about they had something
10 case Brian needed help out west. 10 electronic that I had done or they had -- and I'm
11 Q. What would Brian have needed help out west 11 assuming it was they wanted -- I think Mr. Bertolino
12 with? 12 told me they wanted to question me if I knew where
13 A. I don't know. That was between Brian and 13 Brian was.
14 his attorney and I didn't get involved. 14 Q. Okay.
15 Q. Okay. So you wrote a check for $25,000, 15 A. That's my understanding.
16 or your husband wrote a check for $25,000 to Attorney 16 MR. REILLY: Okay. Off the record.
17 Bertolino and didn't ask what it was for? 17 (Recess taken from 10:48 to 10:50 a.m.)
18 A. Well, we did it to retain attorneys out 18 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Did anyone ever tell you
19 west for Brian on Brian's behalf. 19 that you were being investigated for you having
20 Q. Was any part of that $25,000 for Attorney 20 committed a crime?
21 Bertolino? 21 A. No. I think they just wanted to question
22 A. I really don't know what he does with his 22 me. Now, I'm not sure of the distinction. I don't
23 funds, but it was my understanding that it was for 23 know if they were investigating me for a crime or if
24 the attorneys out west. But you'd have to ask 24 they just wanted to question me on the whereabouts of
25 Mr. Bertolino. 25 Brian. I think it was they wanted to maybe charge me
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1 with something, or they thought they could. I don't 1 know, I checked to make sure that was okay, and he
2 know. I'm unclear on that. 2 said just do what you would normally do, and we were
3 Q. Well, did you ever have a conversation 3 normally going camping, so that's why we went.
4 with Attorney Bertolino about you being investigated 4 Q. Why did you check with him to see if that
5 for committing a crime? 5 would be okay?
6 A. Yes. 6 A. Because we weren't sure if -- he said keep
7 Q. When? 7 him close and keep him -- and we just wanted to make
8 A. When Brian was missing and he said the FBI 8 sure that would be okay.
9 wanted to talk to me about something electronic they 9 Q. Okay. Taking a look at what's been marked
10 thought I had done, so I guess that was a crime, yes. 10 as Exhibit 3, do you recognize that?
11 Q. Do you know what it was electronic they 11 A. Yes.
12 think you did? 12 Q. That's Mr. Bertolino's statement of
13 A. The only thing I could think of was 13 September 14 of 2021.
14 possibly when I accompanied Brian to the cell phone 14 A. Yes.
15 store, maybe they thought that was wrong, but I don't 15 Q. And he was speaking on your behalf, was he
16 see how keeping company at the cell phone store was 16 not?
17 wrong. And that's all I could think of. 17 A. Yes.
18 Q. So Brian left on the 13th, correct? 18 Q. Okay. And did you review this statement
19 A. Yes. 19 before he released it?
20 Q. When did you report him missing? 20 A. I don't recall, but I'm sure -- we
21 A. That -- that night. 21 approved all the statements Steven made, so we must
22 Q. The 13th? 22 have.
23 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. So you approved this statement
24 Q. Okay. And when was it that Attorney 24 before it was released?
25 Bertolino told you that the FBI wanted to speak with 25 A. I don't specifically remember, but I'm
82 84
1 you? 1 sure I did.
2 A. I don't recall. 2 Q. What was the purpose of releasing this
3 Q. Was it the next day? The same day? Days 3 statement?
4 later? 4 A. Oh, there was so much -- there were people
5 A. I have no recollection. Sometime in that, 5 outside our doors banging on our doors, banging on
6 before we found Brian. 6 our windows, sending us death threats. It was -- I
7 Q. Were any charges ever filed against you or 7 think the purpose was sort of just to calm the public
8 your husband? 8 down so that we'd know we did extend our best wishes
9 A. No. 9 to the Petitos, because the people were screaming
10 MR. REILLY: I'm sorry. I don't know why 10 that we were -- horrible things at us that we felt
11 I only have two copies. 11 this would calm them down, so that they would know,
12 MR. MELTZ: We got it yesterday. I don't 12 no, we -- we do care and we -- we were hoping it
13 need it. 13 would calm the public. It was a very scary time. We
14 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 3 marked for 14 couldn't leave the house. It was frightening.
15 identification.) 15 Q. Did it calm the public down?
16 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) I'm going to show you 16 A. No.
17 what's been marked as Exhibit 3 for your deposition 17 Q. What about this statement led you to
18 here today. 18 believe it might calm the public down?
19 A. Can I clarify a question from awhile ago 19 A. That we did care, and they were demanding
20 that I was just thinking about? 20 a statement from us and we just felt we should give
21 Q. Sure. 21 them a statement if they're demanding a statement
22 A. When you asked about our camping trip, I 22 from us or it could get even worse.
23 just wanted to make clear that we checked with 23 Q. Why at this time?
24 Mr. Bertolino before we went camping. So I didn't
24 A. I don't remember why at this time. It was
25 want you to think we just were going about. You
25 the 14th, so Brian had disappeared, and that's when
21 (Pages 81 to 84)
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1 the media started to pressure us and get very ugly, 1 Q. Mr. Bertolino?
2 and not just the media, but all kinds of crazy 2 A. Yes.
3 people. 3 Q. So you were concerned enough about him
4 Q. The statement says it's an extremely 4 being missing on the 13th that you called Attorney
5 difficult time for both the Petito family and the 5 Bertolino, and he called the FBI?
6 Laundrie family. 6 A. Yes.
7 A. Yes. 7 Q. But it's not included in this statement.
8 Q. How was it difficult for the Laundrie 8 Asking for help locating Brian is not included in
9 family? 9 this statement.
10 A. We didn't know where Brian was and he was 10 A. No, because I don't think we needed help
11 missing, and I think by then we had people screaming 11 looking for him. We just wanted to let the FBI know
12 outside the door. It was just a difficult time. 12 he hadn't come home, and I was worried about him, but
13 Q. Was it unusual for Brian to go off on his 13 I don't think I was worried enough to alert the
14 own for a period of time? 14 media, and I was just worried about him.
15 A. Oh, he always hiked. 15 Q. The next paragraph says, "It's our
16 Q. Right. 16 understanding that a search has been organized for
17 A. I mean hiking? Yes. 17 Miss Petito in or near Grand Teton National Park in
18 Q. And it wasn't unusual for him to go away 18 Wyoming."
19 for days at a time, right? 19 How did you learn that?
20 A. Well, yeah. He would go on those long 20 A. Oh, I guess on the news or was it -- it
21 trips with Gabrielle and -- you know. 21 must have been on the news.
22 Q. So why did you become concerned on the 22 Q. And when it says "our" and you approved
23 evening of the 13th when he didn't come home? 23 this statement, did you understand that was "our"
24 A. Because he said he was coming home. He 24 meaning you, your husband, and Mr. Bertolino?
25 said, "See you later," and so when he didn't come 25 A. I probably didn't read it so closely to
86 88
1 home for dinner, you know, we were concerned. 1 recognize the word "our," but I'm assuming it was
2 Q. If Brian was missing why wasn't that 2 on -- yes, I'm sure all of us were concerned. We
3 included in the statement asking for help locating 3 were all concerned about Gabrielle: Me, Steven and
4 Brian? 4 Chris.
5 A. I don't think -- I don't know. I'm sure 5 Q. Okay. Was Brian in Grand Teton National
6 he left that morning. I guess we just hoped he'd 6 Park before he came home?
7 come back later that day or the next day. I mean, 7 A. You know, I don't really know the area and
8 every day we hoped he'd come bank. 8 I don't know where they were, so I don't know. I
9 Q. But you said you reported it to the police 9 don't even know Grand Teton National Park. I don't
10 on the 13th. 10 know where they were camping or I didn't --
11 A. Right. Well, the day he left, which 11 Q. It then goes on to state, "On behalf of
12 I think was the 13th. 12 the Laundrie family it is our hope that the search
13 Q. Right, and this was -- 13 for Miss Petito is successful."
14 A. Oh, not the police, no. We reported it to 14 A. Yes.
15 the FBI, and they had a liaison and I just assumed 15 Q. "And that Miss Petito is reunited with her
16 they -- the North Port Police Department and the FBI 16 family."
17 police department had a liaison, so I assumed if we 17 A. Yes.
18 were reporting it to the FBI, they're going to report 18 Q. Did I read that correctly?
19 it -- you know, they're going to share their 19 A. Yes.
20 information. 20 Q. This was issued 16 or 17 days after you
21 Q. Are you certain you reported it to the FBI 21 learned that Gabby was, quote-unquote, gone, correct?
22 on the night of the 13th?
22 A. Yes.
23 A. Yes.
23 Q. What hope did you have at that time that
24 Q. Okay.
24 the search for Miss Petito was going to be
25 A. Not me, personally. Brian's attorney.
25 successful?
22 (Pages 85 to 88)
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1 A. We hoped for the best. We hoped they 1 Q. Your husband testified yesterday that when
2 would find her and she would be fine, and that was 2 Brian called on August 29th he was in Jackson,
3 our hope. We hoped for the best and we sincerely 3 Wyoming.
4 hoped for the best and wanted to extend that to the 4 A. Right.
5 Petito-Schmidt family. 5 Q. Were you aware of that?
6 Q. What led you to believe that she might be 6 A. I think he told me when he got -- well, I
7 reunited with her family? 7 wasn't -- Brian didn't tell me that, but I -- I don't
8 A. Well, nothing led me to believe. I just 8 know when I first heard the word Jackson. Maybe when
9 hoped it. They were looking for her, so. 9 Chris said it to me when I got off the phone, or with
10 Q. Well, you pretty much knew she was dead 10 Steven? But I don't even know where Jackson is.
11 at that time, didn't you? 11 Q. Did you ever consider that this statement
12 MR. GILBERT: Objection to the form. 12 might be upsetting to Joe Petito and Nichole Schmidt?
13 THE WITNESS: No. I hoped for the best. 13 A. Not at all, no.
14 We planned for the worst in case -- we got Brian 14 Q. Did you ever consider it was giving them
15 a lawyer, but we certainly hoped for the best. 15 false hope that their daughter was still alive?
16 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Okay. Well, let's put 16 A. I had hope she was alive and I wasn't
17 September 14th, 2021, in perspective. 16 or 17 days 17 giving false hope. I didn't know that she -- I
18 prior to that time you spoke with your son and he was 18 didn't know until I heard it on the news that she was
19 upset, correct? 19 gone. I had hope, also.
20 A. Yes. 20 Q. Well, you had hope, but you also knew
21 Q. You learned from your husband that he told 21 Brian told you she was gone, he needed a lawyer, and
22 your husband Gabby was gone, correct? 22 no one had heard from her for a long time, right?
23 A. Correct. 23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. And that, whatever occurred, your son 24 Q. Okay. And you realized there was a
25 needed a lawyer, correct? 25 likelihood that she was deceased, correct?
90 92
1 A. Yes. 1 A. I don't know if I thought there was a
2 Q. And this is now 17 days later. Brian 2 likelihood. I just hoped she would be all right. I
3 didn't hear from Gabby, did he? 3 never imagined we would end like this.
4 A. Not that I know of. 4 Q. You knew when this statement was issued
5 Q. You didn't hear from Gabby, did you? 5 she wasn't going to be reunited alive with her
6 A. No. 6 family; isn't that correct?
7 Q. There was all kinds of news reports about 7 MR. GILBERT: Objection to the form.
8 the family begging for help looking for Gabby, wasn't 8 THE WITNESS: No. I didn't know. I
9 there, finding Gabby? 9 didn't know Gabrielle was gone until I heard it
10 A. Yes. 10 on the news.
11 Q. Okay. With all of that in perspective, 11 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) On September 16th the
12 what led you to believe she might still be alive? 12 North Port Police announced that they knew exactly
13 A. I just had hope. I've heard of stories 13 where Brian was.
14 where, you know, people are looking for their 14 A. Yes.
15 daughter and they find her much later, and so I just 15 Q. Do you recall that?
16 never wanted to give up hope. 16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you wonder why after you gave 25 -- 17 Q. Did you call and ask them where he was?
18 before you gave $25,000 to Attorney Bertolino why 18 A. No, I didn't call and ask them where he
19 your son needed a lawyer? 19 was. I was just relieved that they knew where he
20 A. Yes, we -- yeah, yes. 20 was. I was very happy when I heard that they knew
21 Q. Okay. What was your thought about that? 21 where he was.
22 A. He must have done something or something 22 Q. Well, you were desperate to know where he
23 must have happened that he could be in trouble for 23 was, weren't you?
24 and, whatever it was, we wanted to get a lawyer for 24 A. Yeah, I wanted to know where my son was
25 him. 25 and -- yeah.
23 (Pages 89 to 92)
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1 Q. If someone knew where he was, wouldn't you 1 A. I guess we -- I don't remember -- maybe
2 want to know that? 2 called our lawyer? I don't know.
3 A. Yeah, but as long as the police knew where 3 Q. Did you ever respond to it?
4 he was, I was like relieved. I said okay, good. I 4 A. No.
5 guess eventually the police will bring him back home 5 Q. Why not?
6 or I'll get to visit him. I was -- you know, I 6 A. Our attorney advised us not to speak to
7 didn't need to know exactly where he was. The police 7 anybody.
8 knew where he was, and I was like good. They've got 8 Q. Okay. Did this letter have any impact
9 him. 9 upon you whatsoever?
10 Q. You'd get to visit him where? 10 A. Yes.
11 A. Wherever the police had him. I mean, they 11 Q. What impact did it have upon you?
12 said we have -- we know where Brian is, so I said 12 A. I felt very bad and I -- you know, I was
13 great. I'll get to see him wherever he is. 13 worried, too, and I felt bad for them, but I was
14 Q. Did you suspect at that time he might be 14 following my attorney's advice. So, yes, it did have
15 in jail? 15 an effect on me, but.
16 A. Actually, I didn't really think about 16 Q. In hindsight do you think your attorney's
17 that. They just said they knew where he was, and I 17 advice to stay silent was very good?
18 just assumed they knew where he was and that would be 18 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form. You can
19 at their headquarters. I mean, I don't know. Where 19 answer it.
20 else would he be if he wasn't in my house -- 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, I don't know. In
21 Q. Jail. 21 hindsight was it good? I don't know. I can't
22 A. -- and the police knew where he was? 22 foresee what might have happened if we'd taken a
23 Q. Did you think maybe jail? 23 different path.
24 A. I don't know. Maybe. I just -- the 24 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Did you ever consider we
25 police had him, so I don't know where they put people 25 might not be here today had you spoken to the Petito
94 96
1 when they have them, and I was happy that they knew 1 family?
2 where he was. 2 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
3 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 4 marked for 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I didn't
4 identification.) 4 really -- I never really thought about that.
5 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Let me show you what's 5 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 5 marked for
6 been marked as Exhibit 4. 6 identification.)
7 A. It meant he was okay and that's all 7 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Let me show you what's
8 that... 8 been marked as Exhibit 5. Exhibit 5 is a text
9 Q. Have you seen Exhibit 4 before? 9 message that Attorney Bertolino sent to Jossie
10 A. Yes. 10 Carbonate at PF 25 -- I believe that's a station on
11 Q. Okay. Exhibit 4 is a letter. Down at the 11 the east coast -- and the text message says, "The
12 bottom it says September 15 of 2021. It's a letter 12 news about Gabby Petito is heartbreaking. The
13 addressed to you on the stationery of Attorney 13 Laundrie family prays for Gabby and her family."
14 Richard B. Stafford with typed signatures of Jim 14 Did I read that correctly?
15 Schmidt, Nichole Schmidt, Joe Petito and Tara Petito, 15 A. Yes.
16 correct? 16 Q. And that was sent on September 19th of
17 A. Yes. 17 2021. Did you know that text message was going to go
18 Q. Did you ever see this before? 18 out?
19 A. Yes. 19 A. I don't remember if I knew. I know we
20 Q. When did you see it? 20 usually -- Steven usually discussed any statements he
21 A. I believe I saw it in the media. 21 made, so I don't remember if I knew about it after or
22 Q. Okay. Around September 16? 22 before, but I do recognize it.
23 A. I don't recall the date, but around the 23 Q. Do you know why it was sent out?
24 time it came out on the media. 24 A. Well, that must have been when they found
25 Q. And what did you do after you read it? 25 Gabrielle if this was the 19th. It must have been
24 (Pages 93 to 96)
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1 that Gabrielle's death must have been on the news 1 and I guess I talked to Brian later? And at 1:17 I
2 that day. Yes, September 19th. I remember that was 2 was just Googling t-shirts. I must have spoken to
3 the day it was on the news that Gabrielle had passed. 3 Brian later. I don't remember what time the call
4 Q. How was the news heartbreaking to the 4 was.
5 Laundrie family? 5 Q. Why would you mention using Gabby's Tide
6 A. Oh, it was heartbreaking in so many ways, 6 stick to get something out of -- a stain out of a
7 just to know Gabrielle was gone and it was just 7 shirt?
8 heartbreaking. 8 A. Because she was so funny with her Tide
9 Q. So it wasn't heartbreaking before that? 9 sticks. It was a joke because she just loved -- if
10 A. Well -- well, I didn't know she was gone 10 you had a stain, she'd whip out her Tide stick and
11 until it was on the news, and then that's when it was 11 she gave everybody a Tide stick, and so that was my
12 the -- very heartbreaking. 12 little joke and that it was funny. My husband
13 Q. Well, the words that your husband told you 13 stained his t-shirt and that was my little joke. We
14 on August 29th is that she was "gone." 14 should try one of Gab's Tide sticks. She loved her
15 A. Right. 15 Tide sticks. I think she bought them in cases and
16 Q. Right. 16 gave them out to people.
17 A. That was concerning, but heartbreaking -- 17 Q. You told me that you rarely sent e-mails
18 our hearts were broken when we found out Gabrielle 18 to your son, so why this e-mail on this date about a
19 was gone, deceased. 19 stain in a shirt?
20 Q. So when you found out she was gone did you 20 A. I know it's such a coincidence. I don't
21 reach out to Joe Petito and Nichole Schmidt? 21 know. I guess I was looking for t-shirts for my
22 A. No. 22 husband. I remember looking for t-shirts for my
23 Q. Why not? 23 husband and, as a matter of fact, I don't remember
24 A. We just kept following our attorney's 24 this e-mail, but recently when the FBI released to
25 advice to not speak to anybody. 25 you all our e-mails, this one came up and I thought,
98 100
1 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 8 marked for 1 oh, I forgot all about that one, and I didn't see the
2 identification.) 2 e-mail. All I had was the pictures that I sent, and
3 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) I'm going to show you 3 I remembered looking up pictures of t-shirts,
4 what's been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 8. That's 4 debating on maybe why should I spend money on a shirt
5 an e-mail from you to Brian, is it not? 5 when it would be more special if Brian drew it?
6 A. Yes. 6 Because I had gotten -- for the previous birthday or
7 Q. And the date of that e-mail is August 29th 7 Father's Day I got my husband a t-shirt with his
8 of 2021, correct? 8 favorite car, and he stained it with ice cream.
9 A. Yes. 9 Q. Were you telling Brian how to get a blood
10 Q. And that's the date that you learned that 10 stain out of a t-shirt?
11 Gabby was gone? 11 A. No.
12 A. Oh, let me just read it. I don't -- I 12 Q. So it's a coincidence it was sent the same
13 don't remember seeing this. This is the date I 13 day he told you that he murdered -- that Gabby was
14 learned Gabby was gone? Oh, okay. Yeah, I remember 14 gone?
15 this. We were -- yes. I -- this is August 29th. I 15 A. Yes.
16 thought I was at the race on that day. Maybe I had 16 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
17 come home. 17 THE WITNESS: Oh.
18 Q. August 29th was a Sunday. That was the 18 MR. MELTZ: You can answer.
19 day -- 19 THE WITNESS: Yes.
20 A. So I was home by Sunday, yeah. 20 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 6 marked for
21 Q. Okay. Why would you on the date that you 21 identification.)
22 learned that your son needed a lawyer and he was 22 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Let me show you what I've
23 frantic and Gabby was gone, why would you send an 23 marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 6. Do you recognize
24 e-mail about t-shirts? 24 this?
25 A. You know, I don't know. This is at 1:17, 25 A. Yes.
25 (Pages 97 to 100)
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1 Q. This is what's been referred to in the 1 Q. So this was written after he told you that
2 press as the "burn after reading" letter. 2 they were going on a trip?
3 A. Yes. 3 A. Yeah, like right before they left. Like
4 Q. When was this -- you would agree this 4 just a few days.
5 letter is undated, correct? 5 Q. But your understanding of that trip, I
6 A. Correct. 6 think, according to your prior testimony, is they
7 Q. And the first page of it has a bird drawn 7 were just going up to New York.
8 on it, correct? 8 A. Yeah, they told me they were going up to
9 A. Yes. Well, not drawn. 9 New York, but I guess from seeing them empty the
10 Q. Was this a card or some stationery that 10 storage unit I was kind of beginning to suspect that
11 you had? 11 they were going to be gone longer.
12 A. Stationery, yeah, I made, but it wasn't 12 Q. Did you and he have a disagreement over
13 drawn. 13 him leaving?
14 Q. What do you mean, you made it? 14 A. No, not a disagreement, but I did express
15 A. Well, I went to Hobby Lobby and I bought 15 that I was disappointed. I thought he was -- I had
16 blank cards and then I rubber-stamped them. 16 waited for us to move in together. After I went back
17 Q. So you had a stamp of a bird? 17 to New York I couldn't wait until we could all live
18 A. Yes. 18 together, which I know is silly. He's a grownup boy,
19 Q. Is there some significance about this 19 but I thought he would live with us for a while and
20 bird? 20 save his money and work and put it away. I know he
21 A. Nope. I have a frog, bird, chicken. 21 wanted to buy a house, so I expressed I was
22 Q. Okay. And the handwriting that's on that 22 disappointed. But he's a grown boy and he can do
23 first page, "remember," is that your handwriting? 23 what he wants. And so a tiny -- you know, I just
24 A. Yes. 24 thought maybe we were growing apart, and we were
25 Q. And why did you write "remember" on the 25 growing apart because he's growing up. He's not a
102 104
1 front? 1 little boy anymore.
2 A. It was "remember dot-dot-dot" that I'll 2 Q. Did you write this letter because you were
3 always love you, and so if you open it up it's all 3 concerned that he didn't know you loved him?
4 about how I'll always love him, so it was like 4 A. Well, I thought he might be concerned,
5 remember, I'll always love you. 5 since I was disappointed, that he might think, yeah,
6 Q. Okay. Is there a reason why it's not 6 I don't love him, but no. I mean, I really didn't
7 dated? 7 think he -- I just wanted to reassure him that I
8 A. I just didn't think to date it. I don't 8 loved him, no matter what. No matter if he moved
9 always date notes. 9 away, if he decided to stay out west, if he --
10 Q. When did you write it? 10 whatever he did. If he didn't buy a house and
11 A. Before he was leaving for his -- him and 11 decided to do something else. I don't know.
12 Gab's trip in May of '21. 12 Whatever he did, I would always love him.
13 Q. Why did you write it then? 13 Q. Why did you write "burn after reading" on
14 A. Because I think I thought he might be 14 it?
15 going away a little longer than I -- you know, I knew 15 A. Well, that was -- Gabby had bought Brian a
16 he was going away and I was going to miss him and I 16 book and it was called Burn After Writing and it was
17 just wanted to make sure he knew I loved him, even 17 how you could put your deepest thoughts down, and if
18 though he was going away and I was -- you know, I was 18 they were embarrassing, you didn't want anybody else
19 disappointed, you know, but it didn't matter. It was 19 to read them, the advice on the book was just burn
20 okay. Because we'd gotten in that little thing about 20 it. So it was like a little joke that I knew he
21 I thought you were going to live here and save your 21 would get. He would know what I was referring to.
22 money. So I didn't want him to think I was 22 And I did want him to get rid of it. Not burn it,
23 disappointed in him or I didn't love him or -- so 23 but throw it out so nobody read it. It's an
24 whatever he decided to do, I would always, always, 24 embarrassing note.
25 always love him. 25 Q. But it says "burn after reading," not burn
26 (Pages 101 to 104)

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1 after writing. 1 would never actually think he would end up in jail.
2 A. Yeah, because I -- it's kind of the same 2 He was such a nice, good boy. I would never imagine
3 thing, because he would be reading it. I wrote it, 3 it. Just like I would never imagine, if you read on,
4 you know, but I knew he'd be reading it. So after 4 that he would ever go to the moon. I didn't think he
5 you read it, burn it. 5 was going to suddenly go to astronaut school and go
6 Q. Well, you know that's what someone writes 6 to the moon. So I was just being exaggerating and
7 on a letter when they don't want it to be discovered, 7 silly, and I tend to be -- I know I don't seem jokey,
8 right? 8 but I'm intending -- I always joke. Even my Tide
9 A. Right. 9 sticks was a joke. I'm always doing jokes. Even if
10 Q. Okay. You didn't want this letter 10 they're not good jokes, I'm always joking, and so I
11 discovered, right? 11 was just like making it light. Like if you go to
12 A. Yeah. It was embarrassing and I didn't 12 jail, if you go to the moon, if you do that, no
13 want -- you know, yeah. It's a silly letter. I 13 matter what I'll love you, love you, love you, and
14 didn't want -- he's a grown boy and it was a joke, 14 it was just a silly letter. I never imagined the
15 really. He didn't have to destroy it, and now I 15 future when I wrote this.
16 think it's sweet that he saved it. It was just a 16 Q. You understood he could have gone to jail
17 little joke. 17 for murder, right?
18 Q. It says, turning to the next page, "You 18 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
19 are my boy. Nothing can make me stop loving you. 19 THE WITNESS: Not when I wrote this letter
20 Nothing will or could ever divide us." 20 and not ever. I wasn't actually going to put a
21 A. Right. 21 file in a cake. Who does that?
22 Q. Why did you feel the need to say that? 22 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) What would even lead you
23 A. I guess I was just being over the top 23 to think that he might go to jail?
24 mushy, emotional, just so he knew we were always -- 24 MR. GILBERT: Objection.
25 even if he grew up, he would always be my little boy. 25 THE WITNESS: Well, nothing. I was just
106 108
1 If he's 40, 50 years old, I will always -- he'll 1 being -- what would lead me to think he would go
2 always be my boy, and nothing could ever divide us. 2 to the moon? Nothing would lead me to think he
3 Q. Okay. 3 would go to the moon.
4 A. You know, even if he didn't speak to me 4 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) And then next you say,
5 for six months because he's mad or something, I would 5 "If you need to dispose of a body, I will show up
6 forgive him and we'd talk it -- like nothing. 6 with a shovel and garbage bags."
7 Nothing. 7 What led you to believe that he might need to
8 Q. Okay. Nothing, including murder, would 8 dispose of a body?
9 make you stop loving him, correct? 9 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
10 A. Oh, I would always love him. 10 THE WITNESS: I know, okay, but this is so
11 Q. Then it says, "No matter what we do or 11 crazy. Somebody had told me a joke and I
12 where we go or what we say, we will always love each 12 thought it was funny, and I told people at work.
13 other." 13 I told Brian. I thought it was the funniest
14 A. Right. 14 joke. Somebody said to me, "Oh, you know, a
15 Q. No matter what, including murder? 15 good friend is somebody that shows up with a
16 A. Well, I didn't say "including murder," 16 garbage bags and a shovel -- oh, somebody you
17 but, you know, I would always love my boy no matter 17 can call at 3:00 in the morning and they show up
18 what.
18 with garbage bags and a shovel and they don't
19 Q. And then you say, "If you are in jail I
19 ask any questions. Ha-ha, that's so funny.
20 Like, that's how you know a good friend."
20 will bake a cake with a file in it."
21 And I thought that was a funny joke. The
21 A. Yes.
22 person that told me said it funny, and I told it
22 Q. What led you to believe that he might be
23 to Brian. I thought it was such a funny joke,
23 in jail?
24 and so I was referring to the joke, but I didn't
24 A. Well, I went out with a series of silly
25 have time to write out the whole joke, but I
25 examples of things that were far-fetched. Like I
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1 knew he would know the joke I was referring to. 1 MR. GILBERT: Objection.
2 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) So you -- 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah, way before. This was
3 A. That I would always, you know, be there. 3 like May, before they went on the trip, and I
4 Q. Your intent in writing this letter was to 4 just wanted to make sure --
5 express the depth of your love to him? 5 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Well, we have to take
6 A. Right. 6 your word for that, right?
7 Q. But you don't say, "Whatever you do in 7 A. Yes, yes.
8 life I'll be proud of you," correct? 8 Q. In that sentence "if you need to dispose
9 A. I know. That would have been better. 9 of a body I will" you have "bring" and "bring" is
10 Q. You don't talk about what a great 10 crossed out. Why is "bring" crossed out?
11 childhood he had, correct? 11 A. I was trying to remember how the joke
12 A. (Nods head affirmatively.) 12 went, and then I remembered it was "show up," and
13 Q. Yes? 13 it's like -- you know, the joke was a good friend
14 A. Right. 14 shows up --
15 Q. You don't talk about memories of him, 15 Q. Okay.
16 correct? 16 A. -- with a shovel and garbage bags.
17 A. Correct. 17 Q. So baking -- you're aware, are you not,
18 Q. You don't talk about places you've gone 18 that if you put a file in a cake and give it to
19 together, correct? 19 someone in prison, that's a crime?
20 A. Correct. 20 A. Yes, but it's also a very funny joke in
21 Q. You don't talk about what he did to make 21 movies, you know, somebody filing their way out of
22 you love him the way you do. 22 jail with a file. And, as a matter of fact, the
23 A. Correct, but I have other letters like 23 movie that I was thinking of when I wrote it was a
24 that. 24 Wes Anderson, Hotel Budapest, where she bakes
25 Q. But we're talking about this letter -- 25 beautiful pastries and in each one she puts a tiny
110 112
1 A. Right, I know, yeah. 1 spoon, and the guy digs himself out of jail. It was
2 Q. -- which talks about jail and murder. 2 just a joke --
3 A. I don't write it in this letter, but I'd 3 Q. And you were --
4 written other letters like that. I've written -- 4 A. -- because you can't dig yourself out of
5 Q. You don't say any of those things, but you 5 jail. You can't file your way out of jail. It was
6 talk about jail and burying a body. 6 silly.
7 A. I know. It was a poor choice of words. 7 Q. And you were thinking that at the time you
8 When I read this later I was like this sounds awful, 8 wrote this?
9 but it was nothing. It was a jokey, stupid letter 9 A. Yeah.
10 that I dashed off before he left with lots of bad 10 Q. Okay. You realize that offering to help
11 jokes and poor humor, but that's how I intended it, 11 dispose of a body would be a crime?
12 and I never imagined any of this. It sounds so bad 12 A. Of course, but it was a joke. You
13 now, but at the time I wrote it it was just jokey and 13 wouldn't really do that. It's like joking -- when I
14 stupid. 14 went to work in the World Trade Center they -- on the
15 Q. Okay. 15 top floor they had a place where tourists could come
16 A. But I do have letters that I've written 16 you could get your picture taken leaping off the
17 him just like that listing all his good qualities, 17 World Trade Center and it was very funny, and you'd
18 listing good memories. I've written tons of letters 18 put on a funny face and then you'd pay your $10 and
19 like that. 19 you'd get a picture of yourself falling off the World
20 Q. But you didn't put it in this one. 20 Trade Center and that was so funny and everybody had
21 A. I know. I just -- I should have. I wrote 21 funny faces, and I'm saying this because at the time
22 this stupid one. 22 it was a joke.
23 Q. Which is written around the time he 23 Q. Okay.
24 murdered Gabby.
24 A. Later when people actually did fall off
25 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
25 the World Trade Center it was not so funny.
28 (Pages 109 to 112)

941-485-7267
113 115
1 Q. Well, this isn't so funny now that we know 1 telling him that nothing could come between you?
2 your son murdered Gabby, is it? 2 A. I could see how somebody could read it
3 A. Exactly. 3 that way now, but at the time that's not how I
4 Q. Okay. Why is it that you chose Romans 4 intended it.
5 8:38 to quote in your letter? 5 Q. And then you ended it by saying, "Not
6 A. Oh, I love that verse because it shows how 6 time, not miles and miles and miles."
7 we can never be separated from God, the love that God 7 A. Right.
8 has for us, and so I kind of used it to show that 8 Q. Were you encouraging him to run away?
9 that's how powerful my love is. Just the way that we 9 A. No. That just meant no matter how far
10 cannot be separated from God, our love could not be 10 apart we were, if we went to another planet, went to
11 separated by anything that ever -- anything, you 11 the moon, our love was just so -- I love him. I love
12 know, that ever -- how is it worded? Things not 12 him. I always will. Maybe I just -- I'm too
13 here, things to come, nothing in the world could 13 dramatic.
14 separate our love. I just thought it was a very 14 (Plaintiffs' Exhibit 7 marked for
15 beautiful expression of love and I used it to say 15 identification.)
16 that's how much I -- 16 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) I'm going to hand you
17 Q. All right. Let's look at -- 17 what's been marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7. Do you
18 A. -- love Brian. 18 recognize that document?
19 Q. I'm sorry. Let's look at the language in 19 A. Um-hum.
20 parentheses at the bottom of that second page. It 20 Q. What is it?
21 says, "Nothing can separate us; not hatred, not 21 A. It's my Affidavit in Support of Motion for
22 hunger, not homelessness, not threats, not even sin. 22 Protective Order.
23 Not the thinkable or unthinkable can get between us." 23 Q. Okay. And this affidavit was written
24 A. Right. 24 about the letter that we just went over, correct?
25 Q. Murder is a sin, isn't it? 25 A. Yes.
114 116
1 A. Yes. 1 Q. Turn to the second page. It says, "The
2 Q. Murder's unthinkable, isn't it? 2 purpose --" paragraph 5, numbered 5. "The purpose of
3 A. Yes. 3 the letter was to reach out to Brian while he and I
4 Q. Weren't you writing this to him to tell 4 were experiencing a difficult period in our
5 him that no matter what he did, you'd still love him 5 relationship."
6 and nothing could come between you? 6 What was that difficult period?
7 A. Well, actually, the reason I did this in 7 A. Oh, he was leaving home and I was -- you
8 parentheses is because in my Bible this is how Romans 8 know, and he had a new girlfriend, so we were not
9 8:38 is worded, but when I looked it up in the King 9 spending as much time together, and nothing big.
10 James Version they actually use -- or I don't know -- 10 Just not -- not what it was when he was little. He
11 maybe it wasn't King James Version -- these words. 11 was growing up.
12 And I said, oh, those words are nice, too. Should I 12 Q. Okay.
13 put the original or this version of Romans or should 13 A. And I guess I was having more trouble with
14 I put this version of Romans? So I squeezed it in at 14 it than anything. I wish my kids would stay little,
15 the end in parentheses. I had a little space and 15 but I just wanted to reassure him that I loved him.
16 that's where I wrote an extended version. Like 16 Things were changing. He's growing up. He's taking
17 there's two different versions, depending on what 17 a trip I wasn't thrilled with, and just difficult.
18 Bible you read. 18 Q. You found out about that trip, I believe
19 Q. Okay. 19 you said, a couple weeks before they left, right?
20 A. And I'm like that's a nice version, too, 20 A. I think it was like less than a week.
21 but I was just saying -- I was just being hyperbole, 21 Q. Okay. But in the next sentence you say,
22 the word for just exaggerating. Oh, no matter what 22 "In the months prior to the trip our relationship had
23 happens I'll love you. 23 become strained."
24 Q. Can you understand how it sounds like 24 A. Yeah.
25 you're suggesting he did something wrong and you're 25 Q. Why was your relationship strained?
29 (Pages 113 to 116)

941-485-7267
117 119
1 A. Well, like I was just saying, we weren't 1 A. Yes, right. Was that -- was the word
2 spending time together. I don't know. It just 2 fateful in that? But they didn't know and they took
3 wasn't the same as it was. 3 it.
4 Q. And then you go on to note, "Brian and I 4 MR. REILLY: All right. Let's take
5 shared a love of stories, and some of the language in 5 another break.
6 the letter was using similar phrases to determine the 6 (Recess taken from 11:33 to 11:50 a.m.)
7 depth of a mother's love. The two books that come to 7 Q. (BY MR. REILLY) Mrs. Laundrie, were you
8 mind are "The Runaway Bunny" and "Little Bear." 8 aware that Biblical scholars interpret Romans 8:28 to
9 A. Yes. 9 be about murder?
10 Q. What language in those books do you think 10 MR. MELTZ: Object to the form.
11 is similar to the phrases you used in your letter? 11 THE WITNESS: No.
12 A. Well, I know in "Little Bear" he went off 12 MR. REILLY: Okay. I have no other
13 to the moon, and the mother bear -- you know, there's 13 questions.
14 a picture of her waiting for him to come back and he 14 MR. MELTZ: I do not have any questions.
15 comes back from the moon to see his mother bear. And 15 MR. GILBERT: And I do not have any
16 then "Runaway Bunny" was just how no matter what the 16 questions either. Remember that we talked
17 bunny did, she would always love him. I forget the 17 yesterday with Mr. Laundrie about your right to
18 exact book, but it was like -- I mean I forget the 18 read your transcript or waive that right? I
19 exact lines, but whatever the bunny did she would 19 would suggest that we read if it's ordered. All
20 always love him. 20 right? So we'll read the transcript if it's
21 Q. Well, there's nothing in those books about 21 ordered.
22 burying a body, is there? 22 MR. MELTZ: And, Madam Court Reporter, I
23 A. No. 23 can't remember if I said this yesterday, but to
24 Q. There's nothing in the books about going 24 the extent either of these are ordered, if both
25 to jail, is there? 25 are ordered, I do want a copy.
118 120
1 A. No, but that was from the joke and the 1 (This deposition was concluded at 11:52
2 book from Gabrielle. It was sort of a combination of 2 a.m. The reading and signing of the transcript
3 all these different references that I knew Brian 3 was not waived.)
4 would recognize. 4
5 Q. Turn to the next page, please. Paragraph 5
6 8 says, "I repeat that the letter I wrote to Brian 6
7 before he left with Gabby for their fateful trip was 7
8 nothing more than a private communication between 8
9 myself and my son and I never expected anyone else 9
10 would read it." 10
11 What do you mean by "fateful trip"? 11
12 A. Well, we wrote that after. I mean, well, 12
13 I wrote it and then my attorney helped me write it, 13
14 and we didn't know at the time it was fateful 14
15 until -- now we know it's fateful, you know, that 15
16 trip that ended terribly. 16
17 Q. Well, one of the definitions of "fateful" 17
18 is ominous, meaning you know that something's going 18
19 to happen. Were you aware of that? 19
20 A. Well, yes, because now we know something 20
21 happened, so it was a fateful trip because that's how 21
22 you -- it's sort of like the Titanic. That was a 22
23 fateful trip. They didn't know it was going to sink, 23
24 but it was like, oh, that fateful trip. 24
25 Q. And like a three-hour tour? 25
30 (Pages 117 to 120)

941-485-7267
121 123
1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE TWELFTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR SARASOTA COUNTY
2 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 2
3 COUNTY OF SARASOTA ) CASE NO. 2022 CA 001128 SC
3
4 I, the undersigned authority, certify that 4 JOSEPH PETITO, et al,
5 ROBERTA LAUNDRIE personally appeared before me and 5 Plaintiffs, DEPOSITION OF
6 vs. ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
6 was duly sworn. 7 CHRISTOPHER LAUNDRIE, et al,
7 Witness my hand and official seal this 10th day 8 Defendants.
8 of November, 2023. _______________________________/
9
9 10 DEPOSITION TAKEN: October 10, 2023
10 DATE SENT TO WITNESS: November 10, 2023
11
_________________________________________ TO: ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
11 AMY E. ROBERTS, RPR, RMR 12 c/o Ryan L. Gilbert, Esquire
[email protected]
Notary Public - State of Florida at Large 13
12 Commission #HH 308928 14 The referenced transcript has been completed and
awaits reading and signing. The transcript is being
Expires: January 5, 2027 15 furnished to you through the law offices of Ryan L.
13 Gilbert. At page 125 you will find an Errata Sheet.
16 As you read the transcript, any corrections that you
14 wish to make should be noted on the Errata Sheet,
15 17 citing the page and line number of said change. DO
NOT write on the transcript itself. Once you have
16 18 read the transcript and noted any changes, please
17 sign the Errata Sheet and return it to your counsel
18 19 for distribution to the opposing counsel.
Please complete this task within 30 days.
19 20 If you now wish to waive your signature, please
20 sign your name in the blank on the second page of
21 this letter and return same to me for distribution to
21 all attorneys in this case.
22 22 Thank you for your prompt attention to this
matter.
23 23
24 24
________________________________
25 25 AMY E. ROBERTS, RPR, RMR
122 124
1 DEPOSITION CERTIFICATE 1 I do hereby waive my signature:
2 STATE OF FLORIDA ) 2
3
3 COUNTY OF SARASOTA )
4 ________________________________ ________________
4 I, AMY E. ROBERTS, being a Registered
RICHARD MANANKIL (Date)
5 Professional Reporter and a Registered Merit 5
6 Reporter, certify that I was authorized to and did 6
7 stenographically report the foregoing deposition of cc: VIA TRANSCRIPT:
8 ROBERTA LAUNDRIE; that a review of the transcript was 7 PATRICK J. REILLY, Esquire
[email protected];
9 not waived; and that the transcript is a true record
8 RYAN L. GILBERT, Esquire
10 of the testimony given by the witness. [email protected];
11 I further certify that I am not a relative, 9 CHARLES J. MELTZ, Esquire
12 employee, attorney, or counsel connected with the [email protected].
13 action, nor am I financially interested in the 10
14 action. 11
12
15 Dated this 10th day of November, 2023.
13
16 14
17 15
_____________________________ 16
18 AMY E. ROBERTS, RPR, RMR 17
19 18
19
20
20
21 21
22 22
23 23
24 24
25 25
31 (Pages 121 to 124)

941-485-7267
125
1 ER R ATA S HEET
2 In Re: PETITO vs. LAUNDRIE
3 CASE NO. 2022 CA 001128 SC
4 DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT -- ENTER CHANGES HERE:
5 Page No. Line No. Change
6 _______ _______ ______________________________
7 _______ _______ ______________________________
8 _______ _______ ______________________________
9 _______ _______ ______________________________
10 _______ _______ ______________________________
11 _______ _______ ______________________________
12 _______ _______ ______________________________
13 _______ _______ ______________________________
14 _______ _______ ______________________________
15 _______ _______ ______________________________
16 _______ _______ ______________________________
17 _______ _______ ______________________________
18
19 Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I
20 have read the foregoing deposition and that the facts
21 stated in it are true.
22 Dated this _____ day of ________________, 20___.
23
24 _____________________________
25 ROBERTA LAUNDRIE
32 (Page 125)
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Filing # 191755593 E-Filed 02/12/2024 01:30:21 PM

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE

26 (Pages 101 to 104)

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