3 Interview Transcripts From Psycho Energetic Root Causes of Chronic Illness Masterclass

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GUEST EXPERTS
HighSpeed Healing: What to Do
When Nothing Else Works
Debora Wayne
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The Impact of Attachment Trauma

on the Physical Jason Prall
The Key Aspects of Biofield Science

Christine Schaffner, ND
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HighSpeed Healing: What to

Do When Nothing Else Works
Debora Wayne
Eva: Hello and welcome. I’m your host, Dr. Eva where it was over 30 years ago now, but I went
Detko. And my guest for this session is Debora through a health hell crisis. And I could not figure
Wayne. Debora is the founder of the International out what was wrong, why I was in pain, why my
Chronic Pain Institute, a highly sought-after hair was falling out. I had ulcers and thyroid
speaker, and the number one best-selling author issues and muscle pain and depression, anxiety.
of Why Do I Still Hurt? Debora has earned degrees It just went on and on and I was functioning, but I
and certifications in psychology, hypnotherapy, was dying inside. And nothing was showing up on
chemical dependency counseling, and has 35-plus medical tests.
years of practicing and teaching meditation. She’s
also a certified yoga instructor. And the doctors were baffled and I was just
out of ideas. And one day I woke up and I was
Debora is a world-renowned energy healer, completely out of willpower to get dressed and
whose leading edge non-drug method known as go back to work. I was lying on the floor of my
high-speed healing has helped cancer thousands closet crying, and I screamed out to, at that time, I
of people in over 160 countries to rapidly release don’t know what. I didn’t believe in anything. I just
chronic pain, depression, anxiety, trauma, battles needed help. And it was a cry of desperation.
with binge eating, chronic fatigue, insomnia, and
many other “mysterious” and chronic conditions. And I had a really profound spiritual experience
So, Debora, welcome to the masterclass. in that moment where a sense of peace and love
came over me and filled the entire closet. And
Debora: Thank you so much for having me. I’m I stopped crying immediately, and I knew I was
really delighted and honored to be here. going to be okay. And an inner voice said, “You’re
going to be okay, and you have work to do.” And
Eva: I am also delighted because see, we’re so I went back to meditation which is something
actually quite aligned in what we do. Maybe we do I had learned when I was very young but I had
it in a bit of a different way, but we are definitely stopped doing.
on the same page about health and healing. So it’s
always great to connect with people like yourself. And I started to have a series of very profound
So could you perhaps start with telling everybody experiences that revealed to me. I literally could
how you got into energy healing? What got you see, feel here, touch sense that everything, and I
into this field of work? mean everything, the walls, my body, everything
was made of energy and vibrational information.
Debora: I’ll take you back to the pivotal moment And I didn’t know it at the time, but it began to be
The Psycho-Energetic Root

Causes of Chronic Illness
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revealed to me the principles of quantum physics. Eva: This is the true healing, right?
But I didn’t know physics. But I was shown.
Debora: Yeah, 100%. I’m so glad, and that’s why
And I kept hearing that first, this life force energy I so deeply resonate with you and your work and
that I was feeling and sensing I would be able your message and this summit and masterclass.
to use it to heal first myself and then other Because it is. It is the future and the future
people. And that I had a purpose here to be of is here. We are in it. And it’s not changing. If
service. And Eva, when it first happened, I thought anything, more and more people are awakening
it was cracking up. I come from a medical family. to this reality. And that this invisible realm is the
I can hear my father saying, “Show me the data.” precursor to everything that shows up in the
But I knew I was not imagining things. physical. And we need to understand that. And
not just understand it with the mind, we need an
And so it took quite a long time. I had a lot of work experience of that.
to do. And a lot of it was to clear out the beliefs
between this in my head, to get over the fear of Eva: Absolutely. Everything is informed by the
accepting a part of myself that I had never even field. People don’t realize it but their DNA is
knew existed. But fast forward, I went back to informed by the field. I always say, “Look guys,
school. I got degrees, certifications, and all of that. you are never going to have healthy cells if your
But the truth is, the deepest learning that became field is in disarray.” Okay? So we’re talking about
the foundation of all the work that I do today subtle energies. We’re talking a wider field as well
came from these meditations. because obviously, we’ve got so many levels of
the information field. But the bottom line is that
And I still practice meditating today and it helped you can’t have a healthy body without, maybe
me achieve a state of consciousness that I know not understanding it, because nobody really fully
is the basis of all of physics and true deep healing understands how this works, right?
at the root. That’s why I’m here. And I’ve been able
to now help thousands, hundreds of thousands of Debora: Yeah.
people around the world from this awareness of
vibrational frequency, energy, and information via Eva: But without tapping into it and using the
the field. And that’s what motivates me to get up strategies that we already have, quite rightly so.
every morning and share that with the world. This is not so much the future as it is the now.
And going forward, we’re only going to have more
Eva: Wow. It is a very interesting story. And quite and more people coming to people like you and
honestly, thank you for validating it for a lot of I to teach them more about this so that they can
people because a lot of people listening probably utilize it for themselves as well.
have had spiritual experiences. And actually, these
days, more and more people are getting activated Because quite honestly, with the nonsense that’s
in the exact way that you’re describing because been going on in the medical community, which
the era we’re coming into is exactly that. Future really is just medical mafia as it turns out the last
healing is energy healing. I’ve been saying this for three years. And yes, it is my masterclass, and yes,
a very long time and I know you agree with this. that’s what I believe. And that’s what has been
shown to us. And yes, I am going to say it because
Debora: 100%. I have to speak my true.

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So with the medical mafia really showing the true waves. These are frequencies that are streaming.
colors the last three years in particular, to be It’s the true live streaming. They come into our
honest, to me, I’ve always seen it all my life but cosmos and we can access this freely.
more and more people are seeing it now. We are
going to have more and more people wanting to [10:15]
tap into this way of healing, which is in the end
really the true healing. So tell us more about your And these frequencies are transmitted to
method, high-speed healing, and how you’ve whomever, whether it’s an individual or a group
come to develop this. that I’m working with. And it’s a huge bandwidth
of frequencies and people start to resonate with
Debora: So it is exactly what you’re describing. the frequencies they need. And it harmonizes. It
So I became aware that there is a field of brings coherency to their field. And when the field
energy. First of all, we live in a gigantic field. becomes harmonious, it shifts the body, the mind,
We’re all interconnected in this field. We cannot and the emotions.
be separate from each other. And there is
information surrounding our body which acts And this is the key to everything. Whether you
like a recording device. And it’s literally imprinted do it with a device, a laser beam, a frequency
vibrational, everything that has ever happened to machine, or you do it through...I’m a little ahead
us. of the curve. I know that. But this is the next
phase where we’re able to access naturally. It
It’s easy to find the disturbances in this energy is in our DNA. Coded to be able to access these
field. See, this is the missing key here. As frequencies that we need to heal. It’s actually the
you described earlier, the field is what is the safest, fastest, easiest way.
precursor. So everything shows up first in the
field, and then it could take 10 years to show up in And so I’ve been practicing this for many, many
the body. In the physical. But the body is just the years. When it first happened, I spent a couple of
expression of the field. And all that information is years just experimenting, making sure I could get
there at our fingertips, and it is the safest, fastest consistent results and trying to better understand.
way to make changes. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I now
have many more than I had when I first began.
So what I became aware of is that I’m extremely
sensitive. I actually use my hands and I can scan And it’s so exciting to see the results that happen
the field like a device would. Like an MRI. And I’m instantly for many people. And whether it’s instant
able to feel. See, all the work that I did in my early or not, it’s more rapid than most methods of
life, I had no idea it was preparing me for this. healing such as taking pills and supplements, and
But I was an artist. I worked in clay. I worked with certainly safer than anything, like cut it out, drug it
glass. I was a dancer. I became very sensitive to out that we’ve constantly been seeing.
energy for decades.
Eva: Yeah. And I can definitely confirm that
And now I’m able to just scan the field, yes, obviously, this works at a distance because we’re
even at a distance, and I can feel where the talking about the information field, so it doesn’t
disturbances are. And I have developed the state really matter where the person is on the planet.
of consciousness through many years of practice And I have actually been having remote reiki
and meditation to access these constant cosmic healing sessions for many years now with a good

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friend of mine who is actually also a speaker on devices, but we’re clearly moving into a phase. I’ve
the summit. And without any question, this does trained hundreds of people to be able to do
work. this. Everyone from an eight-year-old boy to an
80-year-old male.
I work with energy myself but really when working
with people, I work with technology. And as you We’re all designed to wake up dormant DNA that
said, we have really fancy technologies and I we are coded with, and you just have to be in the
have probably the fanciest machine that literally right safe environment with the right situation
exists because it taps into up to the eight levels that can activate this. But it’s the most exciting
out of 12 according to the book Hard Times of experience when you really recognize what you’re
the information field. But what I always say to capable of.
people is that the future is you doing this for
yourself. You will not need any technology. Eva: So it’s interesting because you just said that
you’re training people. So apart from working with
We are in this kind of, or the way I see it is this people, you are also training people how to do
sort of interim period where most people...So you, this for themselves.
as you said, you’re ahead of the curve because
you already doing it. You understand it and you’re Debora: Yes.
doing the work, and you’re helping people in this
way. But really, we are coming to an era where Eva: Okay. So I’m going to come back in a minute
everybody’s going to be doing this for themselves. how you work with people, and some of the
results, some of the things that you’ve worked
And really, the technologies are just like a with. Whilst we’re on the subject of the fact that
transition, right? We’re transitioning them into you actually train people to do it for themselves,
this and we’re also teaching them to do it for could you speak a little bit more to that?
themselves because that’s what true health
sovereignty is. I’m all about health sovereignty, Debora: Quite a few years ago, I became aware
and that’s what true health sovereignty is. that, that I was able to wake people up and help
them become more sensitive to exactly what I’m
Debora: Absolutely. I couldn’t agree with picking up and what I’m able to do. And I started
you more. You’re the first that I’ve heard a highly experiential training program. And we do
that understands this interim period. And it’s it over Zoom. I’ve worked with people all over the
necessary because it’s quite a leap to go from the world. Talk about life-changing.
way we’ve perceived and been taught to deal with
health issues, to what really is necessary. And so The hardest part of the training is the unlearning
most people have, for some reason, a greater of the conditioning of what people believe to
trust in a piece of equipment that they don’t be true about health and healing. But before
understand but they will trust that because we’ve we’re halfway through the course, every single
been conditioned to trust that. person in the class will demonstrate that they
can successfully transmit healing frequencies
And we don’t recognize our true power, our true that have a positive beneficial effect to adults,
unlimitedness, and we don’t recognize all the children, animals, both in person and remotely at
freedom that we really genuinely do have. So a distance.
over time, that seeps in. And it’s necessary these

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And it is not a left-brain linear study, this It’s just that through all the social engineering and
memorize this, spit it out course. This is an conditioning and all the bull crap that you’re kind
experiential course. I also work on their energy of fed with from the moment go when you first
field for quite a number of weeks to help prepare pop out the womb, all of that actually causes you
the physiology to handle the frequencies that to kind of, and some other stuff, but literally, that
they’re going to be transmitting. There are means that you...It’s almost like the veil is put on
changes that we need to go through. you, so to speak. On your abilities.
And also, like you, I work a lot with people And really, all need to do is now to dust it off and
in clearing the beliefs that get in the way of kind of exactly cover that you have it. And that
accepting our unlimitedness. And also, the key takes trust, doesn’t it? Because that’s what part of
is the emotions. See, most people have buried, the conditioning means. That people don’t have
suppressed and repressed their true emotions. enough trust in their own ability. And so what
They’ve been taught it’s unprofessional. It’s needs to be developed is we need to develop the
weak. Don’t bring your emotions here. And trust that we actually have those powers. Right?
unfortunately, this is a real problem when it
comes to health and healing. Debora: Beautifully said. When I first started the
training, I literally showed people immediately, on
And if someone is not fully aware of their the very first day, that they could do this. But it
emotions and what they do with those emotions... blew all their circuits. I actually had to slow down
Because emotions are energy and they go because of exactly what you’re talking about.
somewhere. And they will go internally and There are too many clouds from the conditioning
implode and come out sideways as a symptom if in the way of people accepting and trusting their
people do not understand how to release them innate abilities.
and own them. And they will also shut down their
clients, their patients, if emotions come up in their [20:00]
patients. Because you can only take someone as
far as you’ve gone. So I’ve slowed it down and found the proper
way to help them feel safe, comfortable, release
So I help people first heal themselves and the beliefs, change their ideas, and understand who
issues that are blocking their spirit, their true they really are. And then they are able to accept
sovereignty, and then help them become sensitive this ability that is innate in every living being. And
and work in the field with other people. It’s even when that happens and they see it with their
really an exciting journey, I have to say. It’s very own eyes, there’s a part of them that will resist, or
transformational. the fears come up. Most of my training program is
helping people through their fear and their false
Eva: Yeah. And really, we need to emphasize that beliefs and helping them accept who they really
anybody can do this plainly and simply because are.
we all actually have those gifts. We already
have them. And sometimes people talk about Eva: I love it. I love what you’re doing. It’s
developing psychic abilities. I stopped using so important what you said, helping people
that word develop. It’s not about developing. understand who they really are and how powerful
It’s literally about something that you innately they really are. And it’s the most important
possess. work right now anybody can do. And it’s no

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exaggeration. I absolutely mean that. So tell us research lab which has been researching all
perhaps about some of your success stories with types of healing modalities for over 25 years, said
people working with high-speed energy healing they’ve never seen a more significant change. The
that you’ve developed your method. first session showed a 51% decrease in pain and
increase in emotional mood for the better. And
Debora: There’s been just such a wide exciting the average and what’s considered significant
range. So everything from people who have not results is 10%. The average is 10% change. And we
slept in decades. Many people. Almost everyone had a 51% change on day one.
comes to me and says, “I just don’t sleep.” And
one of the first things that tends to clear up right And then the subjects came back to be measured
away, usually after the first session, is people start on day two without me being there or working
sleeping again. It’s rebooting. Recalibrating their on them again, and it went up to 67%. So we’re
rhythms and they are able to relax. seeing significant results with any type of physical
pain, but also with things like anxiety, panic
Now, many people come to me and they’ve had a attacks, depression. I’ve had clients who had
lot of trauma. Severe trauma. And this of course, seizures for many, many years, different types of
as you know, it disrupts the sleep, the hormones, seizures, stopped in their tracks, often starting
the immune system, the nervous system, with the very first session.
everything. So I’ve never seen such rapid release
of traumas in my life with any other method I’ve had clients come in with Hashimoto’s, which
that I have worked with than this form of energy is a thyroid condition. And I’ll never forget when
healing. one of the past clients said, “My doctor told me
there will always be markers showing that I have
And so oftentimes, the beauty of it is too, is that Hashimoto’s.” But after I worked with them for a
they’ll release it in what I call observer mode. They month, they went back to be tested. No markers.
don’t have to relive. It doesn’t re-trigger all the I mean, this is true healing when something is
trauma, which is what people are afraid of. You gone.
want to go back and relive all of that. So they start
to become completely different how they interact I have had people come with migraines, many
with others and how they feel in the world, and people with migraines, and even what are known
they start to feel safe again. as suicide headaches. Because there a cluster of
headaches that are so severe, they’re at the top
Many people have come to me with, they’ve been of the pain scale. And I’ve seen them completely
labeled with fibromyalgia, arthritis, chronic pain, stopped in their tracks. Digestive drama is another
and chronic fatigue. And I have seen even in a big one. All the digestive issues. Food allergies,
scientific research lab using a GDV device which sensitivities. Even people have reported detoxing
measures the biofield and shows exactly what from heavy metals, bacteria, viruses, mold.
has happened before and after, that many people
have reported in less than an hour in the very first The list goes on and on, which is why I am so
session, they went from 20 and 30 years of not excited every day to do the work that I do. There’s
one day without pain to being completely pain- nothing more gratifying than helping people
free. who have just struggled and suffered and taken
everything under the sun and nothing changes.
And in fact, in one experiment that we did, the I’m sure you also know that and see that. And it’s

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just incredibly exciting to know that we have these Their mothers. So they’ll try it and they will be
tools now and we can use them safely without blown away and have healing results. But they can
drugs, without surgeries. bring back, anyone can bring back the symptoms
of disease and pain if they have not been willing
And spine pain is another big one. And all types of to look at the mind and look at their emotions.
bone pain and bone loss even. Jaw, carpal tunnel.
I’m convinced anything is possible to heal when This is all coupled together. You have to look
you’re given a safe space and the right tools. at three areas. The mind, the emotions, and
Anything is possible. The body’s designed to heal the energy field. This is not about becoming
itself. dependent on Debora for the rest of your life.
Your consciousness is expressing as your body.
Eva: Great. I concur 100%. Absolutely. Can And your consciousness is your mind and your
you speak a little bit to some people may be emotions. And if you’re not willing to look at that
wondering, is this a spiritual thing? Is it a faith and make the changes or practice the self-care
thing? Well, it’s obviously not a religious thing, tools that I teach you, you will most likely dip back
I can tell you that already. But when you are into your old patterns.
working with people, how ready they have to be
to actually have those results. Can they block it Maybe you won’t go as far back. Many people dip
with their mind? My guess is if somebody wants back for a bit, and then if they allow me to work
to block the healing, they’ll still block the healing, with them for a period of time, they will become
right? But what can you say about those things? stable with the new patterns. But if you’re not
willing to change, work on yourself, if you’re into
Debora: Yeah, this is an important question. In blaming other people for your problems, you’ll
a perfect ideal world, yes, you would not only be bring back everything back. You’ll be stuck of your
open, you would be willing, ready, and ask and own doing, and you won’t even realize that you’re
say, “Yes, I really want to experience this.” But not participating in the very problem you’re trying to
everyone’s there. And quite frankly, most of the solve.
people I work with, they’ve spent so many years
trying to figure out what’s wrong with them. So it does depend on the individual. However, this
is not religious. Now, let me say this. If you are
And they’ve done tests after tests and every type religious or spiritual, and you understand there
of supplement and drug under the sun. And is a mystery that we can’t fully wrap our minds
they’re skeptical at this point because they’re around, or you do have faith in a higher being, a
afraid to be let down again because they’ve had a source, a God, you’re in the right place with this.
lot of promises and nothing worked. And I don’t
make any guarantees because everyone’s case is But I don’t preach any dogma because if you’re an
different. It will require your participation at some atheist or an agnostic and you believe in science,
point because of what you just mentioned, Eva, you’re also in the right place because this is 100%
which is I can get results with many people who principles of physics, which is why you don’t hear
are skeptical non-believers. it at your doctor’s office.
They’re not trained in physics.
And I don’t mean believers in a religious
way. They’re not interested in this. They don’t So either way, it’s open to everyone of all faiths, all
want to do this. Their wives want them to do this. beliefs. This is non-discriminatory. It has nothing

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to do with religious dogma. So give yourself an of a memory that maybe you haven’t cleared yet.
opportunity to at least check it out and see if you Or something really angers you. Or there’s abuse
can’t have an experience that would rock your of some kind.
world like it did mine. That’s really what I say to
people. You want to know what to do when that comes
up so you don’t hide out from life. You don’t run
[30:10] away from relationships. You can live and fully
express and enjoy your life, which is what we’re
Eva: I love it that you just said that if people have here to do. So I agree 100%. All three areas. We
certain things going on at the level of beliefs or have to understand how to properly use the mind,
the neurological limbic kindling and all of that, the thinking, the habits of thought. We have to
that actually, a lot of it is activated by negative unravel these emotions.
beliefs and destructive subconscious programs.
And we do also need to work at that level. That’s They are emitting the most powerful frequencies
when we get the best results, right? That’s when there are. And they’re affecting every organ and
we get the best results. your nervous system. So we have to know what
the hell to do with these emotions. And that’s
Debora: It is. Now, I have seen with my method what I teach people while I’m also clearing the
that it will bring up these unconscious beliefs, and field and helping them release more rapidly and
the awareness comes within the individual. This safely. And when you do all three together, that’s
is what’s so profound about it and I think makes the magic bullet. There’s nowhere else to look.
my method different than...I was one of the early There’s nowhere else to go.
reiki practitioners in the 1980s. This is so different.
And what I’ve found is that this is working on all Eva: Yeah, exactly. It’s the combination of all of
these levels at the same time. So the physical, the those and people’s self-awareness. And I’m glad
mental, the emotional, the energetic. It is working that you brought this into the conversation and
on that unconscious. what you were saying. That people do have some
sort of realization of what is going on for them
And I, without ever speaking to people, will work rather than just Debora working on you and you
on them and they will have either memories or don’t know any better. You’re like, “La la la. I don’t
flashbacks. Or they will see, or they will just know really care. Just take it away,” and Debora takes it
the root cause of things that have gone on in away.
their health. It will be revealed to them during
the sessions and it will be released. And then It’s not really like that. It’s actually about having
what I like to do is teach people certain self-care more awareness about what you’re experiencing.
techniques that they can use, like you’re saying. And I love that. That’s my favorite part is that it’s
not just about somebody fixing you and doing
Because look, unless you live in a bubble, life their thing, and you’re none the wiser, right?
happens. You’re going to have something happen
that you don’t like, that doesn’t feel good, or that Debora: Exactly. No, I love that you’re saying that.
upsets you, or that reminds you of the past. And That’s actually what I tell people when they say,
that’s where you need some kind of self-care “What are we doing here?” It’s a retraining of you
technique so you know what to do with the becoming more aware and you becoming aware
emotional upheaval that comes up. Or a flashback of your inner experience. Because most people

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are so externally focused, looking for the guru to life unfolds, that’s for sure.
save them and fix them, they’re missing all the
answers that are inside of you. Debora: And it’s helpful to have a guide for a
period of time, like training wheels on a bicycle for
And without a doubt, almost every session when a period of time to help validate your feedback.
I work on people, the first thing they say is, “What The information that you’re getting. But over time,
did you find Debora?” And you know what my we take those training wheels off and you get to
answer is? “It doesn’t matter what I found. What fly on your own.
did you experience?” And I get them talking about
the things that they have already dismissed as And that’s when life gets really fantastic. Where
meaning nothing, not important, that are actually you recognize that you’re connected to a source
highly important. of power that you didn’t realize you even had
before. And you start to flow with life instead of
And we get the left brain integrated with the right, fighting life or blaming life. And you recognize that
which really brains these right-brain experiences life is for you, not against you.
that they have during my sessions, it brings it into
reality for them. It takes it out of the imagination Eva: Yeah. You said to me that you are willing to
and all of a sudden they go, “Wow, the colors I was share an exercise with everybody. So a bit of a
seeing, the geometry, I was seeing, those were practical part to this session, which I love, and it’s
frequencies.” always great. I’m sure everybody agrees with that.
And I start to teach them how this inner Debora: Yes, it’s my favorite part. I’m going to
information is so valuable and you are thinking actually take you through a short demonstration
it’s childlike and imagination only. Well, guess session of my high-speed biofield healing. So
what? It’s the most powerful thing going on for wherever you are, you must be in a safe place
you. And I help people practice daily, quiet, alone, sitting or lying down. Preferably lying down. No
listening inside, developing the most important driving, no operating equipment, or cooking in the
relationship they could ever have, which is with kitchen. And I’d like you to close your beautiful
their deep inner self. And I know you agree and eyes and lean back, and get as comfortable as you
understand that. can.
Eva: Yeah, absolutely. I agree. This is the most And I’d like you to take a deep breath in through
important relationship. And when you have that your nose and then open your mouth and let out
relationship, you also gain the trust and the fear a big sigh. And let everything we’ve been talking
melts away like a block of ice in the sun. When about go. Relax your low belly. Breathe into
you feel that connection, you know that you’re your low belly and draw that breath up into your
looked after. beautiful heart. And then open your mouth and
exaggerate your exhale. And feel how your exhale
You’re protected. You’re going to be in the helps you to relax. Do that again. Breathing into
right place at the right time. It’s always going to the low belly, filling up with life force, and then let
work out for you. You’re going to have the right it all go.
experiences. They’re going to teach you the right
things. And when you have that level of trust, it And as you listen to the sound of my voice and
absolutely is a game changer in terms of how your continue now breathing, but breathe naturally

10
now. Normally now. Just easy, effortless breathing up without any need to stop it. Let it come up.
in and out through your nose. I want you to begin The same with emotions. You may have feelings
to pay attention to your inner experience. You start to move and come up that have been stuck
may begin to notice different sensations. You and trapped inside you for decades. Let them
might begin to notice pressure in your head. come up. It’s just a feeling. It’s just energy. There’s
There’s no need for concern. If you feel pressure no need to fear this. Allow it to come up and it will
in the head, you’re feeling the frequencies. move out. There’s nothing you need to do. Let me
do the work here.
You may or may not experience that. There is no
right or wrong. You cannot do this wrong. You You may have thoughts come into your mind.
cannot block these healing frequencies that I You may not like the thoughts, but that’s okay. Let
bring in. I want you to just pay attention. Notice them come up. This is part of the healing process
what you notice without trying to change anything here. There’s nothing you need to fix. There’s
or stop anything or figure anything out with your nothing you need to figure out. Allow whatever
mind. Let your mind take a rest and just become happens to happen and don’t try to fix it. Don’t try
aware. to change it. Just observe it. Just like you’re at the
movies and you’re watching and you’re listening
You might notice the temperature change. You and you’re feeling feelings, but you’re not trying to
might notice hot, cold, in different parts of your change the movie.
body. Your body may begin to move involuntarily.
And I want you to let your body move if that starts Now, you might even notice things like a
to happen. Or if you feel the urge to move in any fragrance. A taste. Your senses may come alive.
way at any time, follow every urge to move. Let You might notice more than you normally do. Just
your body be free. It knows it knows what to do. It observe and enjoy this. If it gets really quiet inside
may change positions many times. Many people you, that does happen for some people. You’re
move a lot. So just allow that to happen if it does. not doing it wrong. This is what needs to happen
for you today if it gets quiet inside you and seems
[40:00] like nothing’s happening.
You might become aware that even with your Just allow without any judgment, allow whatever
eyes closed, you start to see something like colors, you experience. You cannot do it wrong. I
shapes, images. I want you to just observe that, promise. If you think you’re imagining things and
even if it makes no sense, and we’ll talk about that just making it up, that’s actually okay too. It’s
later. just a thought you’re having. Notice the thought.
That’s okay. Now, we’re going to take the next full
You might notice sounds, voices, words, music, minute in complete and total silence, and I’ll be
some kind of tones. And it most likely will be right here continuing to work on your energy field.
internal inside you, not even around you. Listen
to any sounds that you hear, and we’ll talk about But I want you to just let your mind rest. Let your
that later. You may begin to notice pain coming body rest. And I want you to relax more than you
up. If it comes up, do not be alarmed. It’s the have in a very long time. And I’ll be right here
energy coming up and moving out. The energy doing the work. And you’ll hear my voice when
that was trapped starts to move. This is a good it’s time to come back. Enjoy the deep quiet now.
sign. So do your best to allow the feeling to come Here we go into the silence.

11
Now very, very slowly. As you become aware of Eva: Wow, I loved it. And it’s so easy for me to just
the sound of my voice, begin to slowly deepen drop off. Like, forget the interview. I’m off.
your breathing. And feel yourself becoming more
alert, more awake, more aware, and staying very, Debora: I saw that.
very relaxed. Take a deep, long breath in and out.
Now again, take another deep, long breath in and Eva: What’s interesting for me was that I’ve had
out now. Feel yourself becoming more alert, more a bit of an upset tummy the last couple of days.
awake, more aware as you take another deep And so when I went in, obviously, I noticed a bit
breath in and out. of tension there. Then that kind of changed into
like a warm feeling. And as it sort of continued to
And come all the way back now, wide awake, alert, release, it actually is feeling better now. So yeah, I
refreshed, and relaxed. Slowly open your eyes just allowed it to be what it needed to be.
coming all the way back. Now, some of you are
saying, do I have to come back? if you feel tired Debora: Wonderful. Beautiful.
and like you want to stay in this, just lie right back
down. Because once I start this, the vibration will Eva: Excellent.
continue working on you. Some people, it will go
on for another hour. So feel free to continue in Debora: Beautiful. Glad to hear that. Yeah, this
the session. is very powerful for digestive issues all kinds of
things. So thank you for letting me share this with
And I want to make sure that everyone is aware everyone.
that more can happen after the session than
during. And that there is a full 24 hours and Eva: Absolutely. What can I say? It’s been really
sometimes longer where you may experience fantastic having you on this event, Deborah.
healing results, even from a short demo like this. Before we end could you tell people how best to
Some people have a detox reaction. So if you feel get in contact with you or anything else that you
like things are coming up that are uncomfortable, want to add before we finish?
don’t be alarmed. They’re actually moving out.
Debora: If anyone would like to reach out, we
And usually, within 48 to 72 hours, people report answer every email. So if you have a question, a
feeling much, much better. So allow the process. concern, if you wanted to share the results, feel
Remember, real healing does not suppress free to go to internationalcpi.com. You’ll find lots
symptoms. It brings up the roots and pulls them of resources there, content videos, on and on.
out. And that’s what happens here. That pressure A copy of my book. There’s lots of ways that we
in the head. If you feel that later in the day, offer free help. So don’t let anything stand in the
tonight, tomorrow, you may get another wave of way of you exploring your options.
spontaneous healing frequencies.
And Dr. Eva, thank you so much for allowing
And so just lie down if you’re able to, and take me to be part of your fantastic movement and
10 or 15 minutes. And just let the experience message. You know my deepest passion is the
wash over you and pay attention to your inner same message that you just consistently share.
guidance. Your inner experience. And there you And I’m just honored to be part of this. Thank you
have it. What did you notice, Eva? You want to so much.
share anything?

12
[50:05]
Eva: And we are genuinely honored to have

you on our team here. Thank you so much for
everything you’ve shared. It’s been absolutely
amazing. I love your energy, I love your
enthusiasm and just your passion to help and to
be of service. I really share that also, so thank you
so much. All the best.
Debora: Very welcome.

13
The Impact of Attachment

Trauma on the Physical
Jason Prall
Dr. Eva Detko [00:00:11] Hello and welcome, I’m Jason Prall [00:01:40] Yeah, I mean, I kind of look
your host, Dr. Eva Detko, and my guest for this at Bowlby’s work as my main guidepost here
session is Jason Prall. for attachment trauma and there’s a couple key
factors that are required as we come into this
Jason is a health educator, practitioner, author, world with regard to attachment. One of them
speaker and filmmaker. In 2018, his independent is that we have a primary figure with whom we
research and experience led him to create the attach. So this is generally the mother for an
Human Longevity Project, a nine part film series infant and for the first couple of years this is
that uncovers the true nature of chronic disease the figure that the infant can come to rely on
in our modern world. He’s currently finishing his again and again whenever things are becoming
first book, titled The Longevity Equation, as well as overwhelming. And when it comes to general
his next film series that explores ancient methods trauma, that’s how I would sort of describe it.
of healing mind, body and soul from indigenous
cultures around the world. So, Jason, welcome, it’s Is this general state of overwhelm for which a
great to talk to you again. person, whether it be an infant or even an adult,
is unable to cope. They’re unable to process it
Jason Prall [00:00:55] Yeah, good to see you. from an emotional perspective, they can’t grasp
Thanks for having me. it from their minds perspective. And of course,
when we’re talking about an infant, we don’t
Dr. Eva Detko [00:00:58] Absolutely. I thought it have a rational mind, we don’t have a prefrontal
would be great for us to talk about attachment cortex, we can’t understand the world as it is and
trauma, since we both appreciate the impact of it so we can only feel these things. And so from
and the fact that obviously this is such a massive an attachment perspective, if we don’t have that
part of psycho emotional healing and basically attachment figure around on a regular basis,
illness development. And then when it comes particularly when we’re in the first couple of years
to healing, it’s super, super important if not the and then it even progresses as we get into 7, 8, 9,
most critical element in a lot of ways. So why don’t 10. The figure still needs to be around and we’re
we get started maybe differentiating between at the beginning of attachment we are required to
attachment trauma and some other types of be pretty near the attachment figure the parent
trauma? Because that still might be something in this case. And then as we grow older into our
that not everybody may fully understand and 1,2,3, we start setting boundaries and then we
appreciate. So, yeah, let’s start with that. start getting a little bit of a longer chain and we
can go explore the world.

14
Now every child is different. Some kids are just These require a radically different set of tools to
innately want to go explore and they don’t have overcome, to process and to experience.
a really long leash, so to speak inherently. And
then others will need a little bit closer touch Dr. Eva Detko [00:05:31] Yeah, and also what
and attachment for that primary figure. But then happens a difficulty with attachment trauma
the difference between attachment and other and why it’s, in my opinion, the most impactful,
types of trauma, particularly when it comes to really because I’m not minimizing PTSD by any
attachment, this is our relational concept to, not means. Anybody who has it will know it’s serious
only our parent, but then we use that template stuff, but obviously absolutely resolvable, by the
as a relational tool for friends, family, even way, we can absolutely heal that. And obviously,
things. Everything in the world is relational. And we can heal attachment trauma, we can really
so that attachment and whether it’s secure or heal any trauma. But the issue with something
whether it’s disordered, that will then ripple into like insecure attachment, there’s different ways in
every relational aspect of our lives. So it could be which we attach insecurely. But the issue with that
argued that this is the most important aspect of is that it starts to impact on our identity very early
childhood development and the one of the most on. And really, that just opens an unbelievably
important aspects of trauma. large can of worms, basically when it comes to
then how we relate to ourselves and how we
And from my experience, most of us have some relate to others.
kind of attachment disorder, attachment, trauma,
so to speak. And it really it actually goes beyond Jason Prall [00:06:34] Yeah. And then this is the
just the physical, it’s not just about being in the tricky part. Because you have, let’s say, an infant
physical if you have a parent nearby, it’s sort of that’s becoming a toddler who then is getting into
it’s an energetic thing, it’s an emotional thing. So 3, 4, 5 and now they’re going to school and they
if we have that available to us, if we have that have playmates and there’s so much development
attachment figure as someone who’s attuned going on. So it’s actually very difficult to discern
someone who’s caring, someone is always loving. at that young age what is, let’s say, the natural
And it doesn’t have to be always, I should say it’s developing child versus a child that’s adapting
generally the research is suggesting about 30 to to attachment disorder, or the attachment that’s
40 percent of the time, the attachment figure, not so secure. That’s really the way we can think
the parent needs to get this right in order for the about this.
child’s system to become secure. So there’s a lot
of differences when it comes to things like PTSD. So if we have insecure attachment early on, that’s
going to create patterns and personalities and
There’s a different aspect when it comes to ways of being in a young developing child that
healing and how we resolve these things. Other sometimes we look at and to say, Oh, that’s the
types of trauma can be sort of micro traumas, child, that’s little Johnny. Or that’s a little Carla.
not these big capital T traumas that are probably And really, what that child is doing is learning
a little bit more closely related to attachment to adapt because the attachment system is not
trauma in the sense that they need to be worked secure. And so again, it’s very difficult to parse
continuously and built up over time. Whereas out and only when we start getting older and
some of the other traumas, the more capital developing a little bit greater awareness of
T traumas, the sexual abuse and the physical ourselves, our patterns and our natural ways of
abuse and staunch verbal or mental abuse. being. Can we start to perhaps discern some of

15
this? But I think the classic example of insecure emotionally and or physically, not around, not
attachment would be the classic romantic comedy available enough, then the child at a very young
movie. One of the characters is typically anxious, age.
and this is a couple that’s kind of coming together,
they’re starting to find a little love spark. And then Well, first they can’t really do anything, they can
one becomes a little anxious, or perhaps one cry. As they start to develop and get older they
becomes avoidant first. And avoidant is when one can crawl around, they can go look for a mom or
person’s getting too close. dad, and they can start calling out. If that calling
out works in a regularly scheduled manner, then
In other words, it’s starting to create a sensation OK the child learned that I call out an attachment
in the body, actually and we start to get a little figure comes back. So that’s actually a healthy
afraid that this person is going to hurt us. That’s bond. Now, sometimes when the young child is
generally the case, just keeping this very simple crying out or reaching out for the attachment
and the avoidant. Starts to pull back and they figure, and they’re not there. So they keep crying,
start to drift away from the relationship perhaps, they’re crying louder and they’re not there, and
whatever the case is. You see this again in almost the child eventually, this could be during sleep,
every romantic comedy. And so you have this sleep training and all these things, could be
kind of ping pong effect where one is becoming because the parents are busy, or what have you?
anxious and because one is becoming anxious, But eventually that child will stop crying because
the other one becomes more avoidant. Or it’s not working.
because one is becoming more avoidant, this one
feels, Oh no, he or she is slipping away. I have to So now the child learns to draw their energy
be more aggressive. And so you have this playing back and they come within themselves because
back and forth and those are the classic patterns that’s a lot of energy to be wasting and it’s not
and styles we see in a lot of relationships. working. So I better basically close myself off.
So this is what you can see and eventually, and
So if we have some awareness about your again, this is patterned over many years that this
relationships, even people that are married. I’m attachment system starts to develop. And if that’s
married and I still have these patterns come up. regularly the case where the child is crying out
Currently my wife is away in South Africa. I’m here and reaching out and the attachment figure is
in the States and I can feel these tendencies come not there again, physically, energetically and or
up, these emotions, these feelings, these thoughts emotionally. Then the child will literally conserve
and these are conditioned by my own attachment themselves, close themselves off because they’re
wounds. emotionally open, energetically open and that’s
not a safe place to be.
And so these are very real and they’re very alive,
and I can feel them. So I can feel the sort of So in order to build up a defense, they close
anxiousness that I need to do something because themselves off, they become avoidant and they
I don’t feel her there as close as I would like. start pulling back. Because they learned that when
And that closeness is something that makes me they give their love, when they open up, when
feel safe, and that was patterned when I was they become vulnerable, it’s life or death and
really young. So when I have somebody close, nobody’s coming to save me. So there’s very, very
I feel really safe. This is every infant. But then serious things that are going on inside a young
the attachment figure, if they’re energetically, child. And again, we all develop this. Fortunately,

16
we only need to get it right as parents or as we have today. So often it could come from
attachment figures about 30 percent of the time parental trauma not being resolved, all sorts of
in order to develop secure attachment. stresses and issues to do with everyday life or just
unawareness. It’s not necessarily that a parent is a
But again, I can’t stress this enough, it’s not just narcissistic sociopath, basically.
the fact that the attachment figure is physically
there. They need to be emotionally and Jason Prall [00:13:47] Yeah, I would actually argue
energetically present as well, because that’s what that most of the time it’s not. Most of the time it’s
the child is really feeling. So when that’s not the a loving parent. Perhaps there’s a divorce or it’s
case, then we develop strategies. And look, these a single parent family and the primary caregiver
strategies aren’t a bad thing. They can actually is having to work to take care of the family. So
be healthy strategies until they’re not and then there’s a ton of reasons, economic, just general
they become this sort of disordered, insecure life situations that create an environment that
styles of attachment that we carry with us into our doesn’t involve the primary figure really working
adulthood, particularly when we’re looking for life on this secure attachment on a regular basis.
partners. So I mean, that’s how I was raised. I was raised
essentially by my mother and she worked her tail
Dr. Eva Detko [00:12:05] Yeah. I just want off to do what she needed to do for us to make it.
to stress this again that even if you might be
watching and identifying with having an insecure Now did that create some of these traumas and
type attachment like we’re talking about here. things for me later on? Yeah. But again, what’s she
You need to know you can absolutely shift along going to do? There was a very difficult scenario
that, you see it’s a continuum, you could shift that she had to figure out, and ultimately she
to a more secure attachment that’s absolutely did a good job, I made it. And now I have the
possible. There are lots of different modalities and opportunity to work this and that’s really what I
different work we can do on this and obviously, continue to do. And what I’ve discovered primarily
it’s possible. through a modality called Adult Attachment
Repair Model. Is that when you can create a
So this is not for people to suddenly freak out somatic component to this, it speeds up the
that this is some sort of an issue, we are just process. In other words, in Adult Attachment
making you more aware because if you have Repair Model, they use a stick and the practitioner
that awareness, then you will start to identify and me, for example, would each hold the stick
why you have certain emotional triggers, why and we’d work through a process and start to
you have certain behaviors. And then that will build secure attachment in that practice.
help you change those behaviors and get rid
of those triggers if you so choose to. So it’s And so again, most of us have some form of
definitely fixable. So that’s number one. I want insecure attachment. I think it’s something like 25
to also just reiterate what you were saying, and percent have anxious, 25 percent have avoidant
it’s basically this anxious type of attachment. and then 20 percent have a mix of both. It’s
It’s not like the care wasn’t there, the care was something like that just to give you a general
there, and the child was lucky enough to have sense and I had both. In other words, I used both
love and affection. However, trauma work is not strategies when needed in order to feel safe.
just something everybody does and particularly Unfortunately, these patterns that can provide
older generations, they didn’t have the modalities safety when we’re young then can provide a lot

17
of suffering and struggle when we get older and develop that anxiety, like, when am I going to
really throughout our lives. Because again, you have it again? Or when is it going to be taken away
mentioned it earlier, this is relational attachment from me again? Whereas with avoidant’s, just for
to others and also, it’s relational attachment to whatever reason that care may have not been
self. Perhaps even relational attachment to nature there. And I do have quite a few clients who had
to God. Anything that we can have a relationship narcissistic parents or still do.
with these are coming into play.
So that is a thing, it’s not that it’s not a thing,
So the cool thing is, is that as we start to work but you’re quite right. Most of the time it’s well-
this attachment style, we develop a more secure meaning people trying to do their best to raise
attachment it has ripple effects in every area their kids the best possible way, give them the
of life. So all of a sudden, the relationships that best possible start in life. And that just gets
you have are getting easier. You have a better muddled and a little tricky because nobody
way of coping and dealing with things instead teaches people how to do this. Nobody teaches
of just running away or becoming overbearing. people what we’re talking about here, and people
Things are a little bit more neutral, and you find just do the best that they can with the knowledge
that other people respond to you better, which and information that they have. So that’s why it
is totally wild. In other words, don’t have to do often goes pear shaped. And interestingly, most
anything and yet, everybody’s now responding kids by the age of 4 will end up with the idea that
to me differently. Because of my more secure somehow they are not OK. They’re starting to
attachment and it’s almost like an energetic form this belief, I am not OK because the way I
frequency. There’s something really fundamental want to express myself or, the way I feel may not
about this that is required in this life, connection necessarily be either socially acceptable, or I’m
is so important. And when our system, our being told not to do this, or not to do that.
nervous system, our whole system, our energetic
field can rest in this connection, knowing that it’s And so it’s actually a relatively honest quote
always here that we are one, that we can get the unquote normal thing that you, from your
bigger spiritual concepts. childhood end up with this underlying belief that
you’re not quite OK as you are. And when we
But that’s the foundation of a lot of this spiritual come back to connection to self, that is the basis
work, how can we can be connected to all and of everything. How can you be connected to other
truly recognize and feel that if I have an anxious people if cannot connect to sell to anything else
or avoidant attachment style still running in the for that matter?
background. It’s really not possible because that’s
embedded in the nervous system, it’s there and Jason Prall [00:19:30] Fortunately, children are
we’ve got to work that and process that so we can very resilient. We are all very adaptable. We can
develop more securely in our system. create really amazing patterns to cope with this
that actually create amazing things in the world.
Dr. Eva Detko [00:17:30] Yeah. I’m glad you So this isn’t a bad thing per say. But I think the
mentioned that and really the basis of it is how reason this conversation is so important is that
you relate to self. I didn’t quite finish saying that, when we correct, when we create a more secure
so anxious is when you had love and affection. attachment style and we create more safety in our
But it wasn’t consistent enough and it was coming system. Amazing things happen. It changes our
and going and coming and going. And so they entire world, changes everybody’s world around

18
us. We become more centered, more grounded, you have those micro traumas. You are now more
more aware, more stable. Everything changes susceptible to subsequent trauma because your
when your attachment changes. It is arguably the brain is always on red alert for threats, always
most important aspect of self-development that scanning, always jumping on everything and
we could talk about, in my opinion. activating fight, flight or even freeze. And then we
creating more and more of that hormonal and
Dr. Eva Detko [00:20:22] And healing. Because neurological imbalance. And years, decades later
obviously physiologically we’re talking about we’re going to have physical manifestations to
the ventral vagus activation, the functioning of do with that. So that’s the connection, there is a
what we call our social engagement system, genuine physiological connection. But let’s talk a
that’s the ventral side of the parasympathetic little bit about those are the typical adaptations
nervous system. So physiologically, that connects that people can develop that most certainly when
to obviously the vagus nerve and everything you work with people with chronic illness, you will
that goes with it, including, how it supplies all see those over and over and over again.
of those organs innovates all of those organs,
which l talk a lot about. And then of course, the Jason Prall [00:22:51] Yeah. And before I get to
breaks that this part of the vagus nerve puts on that, I think it’s important to state here too that
chronic inflammation, which of course, if it doesn’t I’ve been kind of talking in black and white, either
do that, then we’re going to have this chronic secure or insecure and it’s not really like that. It’s a
inflammation issues and going rampant in the scale, everything is sort of on this scale of moving
body. more towards secure or you’re more towards this
insecure attachment.
And then we know that that is an issue for every
single chronic illness. So you see there is an Dr. Eva Detko [00:23:12] And context.
energetic connection, emotional connection,
physiological connection, there’s a connection Jason Prall [00:23:13] Totally. And that’s
on every level with this, really. And we are talking important. So when things are going well in my
about the kind of like basic adaptations. But relationship, I could have a really, really insecure
there are other specific strategies that children attachment style, I could be very, very anxious or
can develop, like, for instance, perfectionistic avoiding to whatever. When things are going good
tendencies like people pleasing, overanalyzing. So and things are humming along. I’m in connection,
again, those are just adaptations because some I’m in love, everything is flowing well. But the
people say that we born with it, we’re not born moment things start to get a little unstable, then
with being perfectionists. I mean, I’m sorry, I don’t my system goes into high alert and oh my god, my
agree with that at all. But some people seem to relationship is falling apart. And you may know
think that’s something that we are born with. I some of these people, they might be some of your
don’t I don’t believe that for a second. I haven’t friends. I certainly have some people that come
seen a perfectionistic baby personally myself yet. to mind in that instance. And so we’re all on this
So there are those different strategies. scale, and so the goal is to move more towards
this secure attachment and continue moving into
So there’s actually more strategies, just so more security, more safety in the system. And
people are aware. But a lot of them again. What that is what allows us to develop again, greater
ends up happening is you’re going to create this parasympathetic tone to be in that rest and digest
imbalance within the nervous system because so that we can fluctuate into this stress mode and

19
then back into this parasympathetic. tendencies. Another one might be to really just
So I do think it’s important to state that we’re all give up our own sovereignty and rely on others.
in this spectrum somewhere and just recognizing In other words, we look to everybody else as
that we can move more towards secure. But then the expert, we give over our authority so easily
there’s a ton. I think the part when it comes to because we’re so unsure of ourselves, that’s a
the patterns that develop, I think that the biggest really common one. Another one is, you might
one I’ve noticed is the aggressive pattern. And this know these people that just shut down. They
is what you’ll notice in little children who aren’t literally just close themselves off, it’s like they go
getting that. They’re not feeling that connection into a little hole or they just go off out into outer
on a regular basis. They’ll first get angry with space and they’re just gone, they’re not even
the parent and they’ll display anger, and this will here. So there’s all kinds of these little processes,
continue. This is the hothead. This is somebody and if we get nuanced with them and you watch,
who freaks out when somebody cuts them off in you’ll see you might do a handful of these or you’ll
traffic. Or you might see somebody in the grocery notice others do these as well.
store, something’s not going right and they just
lose it over the simplest things. And I’m laughing Dr. Eva Detko [00:26:41] I completely agree with
kind of because like, I remember doing these you. There are certain traits like basic traits, and
things, particularly when I was younger, and it’s I’m going to refer here to evolutionary psychology
quite embarrassing now to think about that. Or and the method of modality for personality
somebody that just is yelling at somebody on the profiling called warrior settlers and nomads
phone right when things aren’t going right. And I developed by Terence Watts. And it basically
think it’s really important to state that, why do you talks about, back many, many, many thousands
some of these patterns come online? of years ago there were only nomads, we were
all nomadic. Then people started to settle down.
It’s because the fundamental need for connection And then of course, we had warriors who either
is so great, we come into this world and it is defended the settlements or they basically would
required that we have connection. And when go and conquer settlements.
we don’t feel these connections, then we dip
into these patterns to find the safety, to find And when you look at that, it’s actually very
that connection. Connection equals safety for interesting because the nomadic trait, that’s the
us. And when we don’t have that, we will do just type of person who things will just wash over
about anything to try to find it. I want to discuss them and they’ll be very adventurous and they’ll
your sort of constitutional aspect. I don’t think just go and move from place to place, they don’t
we communist perfectionist by it by any stretch, really have a massive issue with having to be
I totally agree with you. And also, I think we do tied down or attached. And on the negative side,
come in with our own inherent traits that will tend that can be quite fickle and quite avoidant when
to lead us into these different strategies a little it comes to relationships. And then you’ve got
more than others. In other words, there’s certain your warriors who are, like really dominant and
aspects of me in the way that I work, that when I leadership is great, that’s a very positive trait for
tried this sort of perfectionism kind of strategy, it a warrior. But on the other side they can be quite
worked really well. And so I thought I had a better despotic.
do that again, I found safety in that.
So obviously again, it’s a spectrum and there’s
And so I think we all have some of these positives and negatives on all the sides and then

20
the settlers, the very caring and loving, but they we’ve got to heal these traumas that changes our
can be doormats too. And so I’ve looked at this behavior. It changes our physiology on a nervous
and studied this when I was writing my book to system level fundamentally, which then influences
look whether this fits and to me, those basic traits every organ and tissue. So we can actually
really do translate. And it makes sense when you break these things epigenetically, behaviorally,
then look at even the Enneagram system of the psychologically, energetically. And that’s how we
different adaptations that people develop. You start to shift things through the lineage.
can definitely see that there are some epigenetic
influences, so that’s for sure. And that kind of Dr. Eva Detko [00:30:51] Yeah, and it could be
directs us, and from there we will develop a one of the reasons why a child maybe is a little
certain attachment adaptation that we’re speaking bit more highly strung. Let’s say that maybe not
of here. So yes I certainly agree with that, very just the parent, but maybe a grandparent or
interesting. even generation before that, maybe there was
war or famine or some other trauma, or even
Jason Prall [00:29:03] Yeah, I love bringing this pregnancy could be trauma during pregnancy.
idea of epigenetics and lineage in here because, Obviously, that was the case for me, when my
we essentially are the product of our lineage in a mother went through the death of her sister. So
huge way. And so not only are we surrounded by then the child is born with a completely different
our parents typically ,surrounded by our family, so neurochemistry that is sort of disadvantaging
we’re picking up things, all their patterns, all their them in the sense that they are already having
ideas, all their beliefs and these are all influencing this little nervous system that is only developing
us. already on the lookout for threats. And then they
may be a little bit more aggressive or sensitive
So we’re watching and we’re studying and so our because of that. And so then it just causes
parents patterns are more likely to imprint on this domino effect from there. And then you
us. And then there’s the genetic component and mentioned the energetic component, and this
this is really interesting. Because the way I look at is very interesting, both with the epigenetic and
human beings that we are supremely adaptable energetic component of healing this. Because
beings. So all the all the influences, energetically sometimes people come into this work and they
dietary everything is influencing our genome. And say, “Oh, it’s so self-indulgent for me to do this
over the course of our lives, we do things enough, trauma work.” But I always say to them, “Look, you
you can actually start to change our genetics really need to be looking at the fact that you are
through the epigenetic phenomenon that we’re healing your lineage forward.
familiar with now. Now, if we do that long enough
and then we have children, those are actually But also when we’re looking at the ancestral
getting passed on to some degree. Now if they trauma, you healing it from the past.” Also the
keep doing this, you can see that through the fact that if you’re doing this work on yourself,
lineage, if we keep doing the same things, we’re like you were saying before, the impact that you
going to really ingrain that pattern, that behavior, are having on everybody, not just on yourself,
that phenotype into the genome. but everybody around you and then by several
degrees, you know how that’s spreading. So if
So that’s what’s really fascinating. So it’s up to everybody did trauma work, wow, we would be
us as individuals to break these patterns if we living in an amazing world already. So it’s not a
don’t want to continue them on. And to do that, self-indulgent thing that’s for sure.

21
Jason Prall [00:32:43] No, it’s the most important So this is attunement that we’re talking about,
thing for others, it is the way of service to which is again as a parent is very difficult to try
others is through service of self. Again, I think to do on a regular basis. Especially if you’ve got
back to my younger self and when I would get multiple kids lots going on, a world that seems to
tipped into pattern and the vitriol, like I was be falling apart, so to speak. There’s just a lot of
the Fire-Breathing Dragon. I think about that things that can interfere in the way that we show
and others had to deal with that. So not only up. And so not only will resolving our attachment
I’m impacting them directly, but perhaps that traumas allow us to show up in that world in a
put them into whatever their pattern was and better way. But again, it allows us to confer that
then the cascading effects, the ripple effects is to others, and we don’t set off like that domino
unknown. Conversely, if a situation’s a little out of effect. In other words, if I can heal myself. Now,
control and I’m able to somehow, energetically, I’m not passing that on to my child who’s then
behaviorally, mentally, psychologically bring got a heal the attachment traumas that were
it back into order without putting others into there because I wasn’t able to provide that secure
pattern. All of a sudden I’m creating a sense of attachment. So it’s a really, really meaningful act
safety, I act as a tool of safety for others around to be able to heal these attachment traumas.
me. I mean, that becomes really, really powerful.
And then beyond that, Dr. Eva Detko [00:35:52] Absolutely. I love it that
you said it, service to others through service to
I think we can start to act from love. We can start self, exactly right. And so how do we help people
to take action from a sense of alignment. And heal this? I personally use a multitude of different
when we act from alignment, everything changes. tools, and you already mentioned the model, any
So our behavior from that alignment, from the other tools that you like to employ to help heal
heart is much, much different, even if it’s the attachment traumas?
same action then if I’m coming from a pattern,
I’m coming from a distorted place. That same Jason Prall [00:36:14] That’s the main one to
action is going to have a very different outcome, be honest. There’s a couple of other awareness
different effect in the world. So again, there’s based techniques that if you can find another
arguably nothing more important than working person that can hold open hearted awareness or
these attachment traumas and these attachment open hearted state, then we can work in relation
pieces and developing more secure attachment. to one person. We can work in relation to two or
Again, getting back to the nervous system and the three into groups. So this is where it becomes
level of safety that is felt in the body, it’s hard to interesting with regard to attachment is we have
put words to. And there’s a lot of misses that we different relational aspects that we can heal. We
have as children that we didn’t get. can heal person to person, one on one. We can
heal me to the group. In other words, it’s like I’m
We didn’t get those yet consistent love affection. giving a speech or something to a number of
And it’s even beyond that, it’s attunement. Every people, I’m the center of attention to the group.
child is different, so you might have the same
parents with two different, very different children. The other side of that is group to me when I’ve
One is very, very sensitive and needs very soft, basically got the group energetically or speaking
loving, tender care consistently. The other one to me. So the group is speaking this way or it’s
might be a free bird and doesn’t need quite the coming this way, the energy. And then there’s self,
level of attention. self to self. These are three primary things that

22
we can work and depending on the situation, I’ve is the reason why when we’re working with even
been involved with groups that we can do that PTSD or certainly with one off type trauma is the
with. So we can actually just hold certain level of big trauma we can get that resolved very, very
awareness and start to allow these processes to quickly with the tools we have, certainly we can
naturally start to come up. So if it’s me standing do that with Havening techniques. But this is
in front of a group of people, literally we can just really like piecing together a puzzle of a thousand
sit there almost in meditation, but working with pieces. And so this is not going to be the type of
one another and allow these process to naturally work that you will spend two hours in therapy and
resolve themselves if we’re able to stay in open you will get this resolved. And for a lot of people,
hearted, connected loving awareness. So these it will be reinforcing and reconditioning will have
are different awareness practices that are kind to happen on an ongoing basis.
of maybe on another level, but on a one on one
basis when it comes to really healing attachment, Jason Prall [00:39:49] There’s like an asymptotes,
adult attachment pair model is by far my favorite you can get there and then you can get close.
I don’t know if you can get all the way there. In
Dr. Eva Detko [00:38:00] Energy psychology other words, you can keep working this forever.
techniques are also very helpful, but really, There’s an infinite level of depth of this piece of
there’s a lot of things that we can combine here. secure in your attachment, in my experience.
Ultimately, it is a lot to do with the healing the But what’s amazing, though I think, and I think
core of self. it’s important to state this again at the end here,
is that when you work these attachment pieces
Jason Prall [00:38:14] So I want to say something and your attachment becomes more secure. It
to everybody. I think when we do things like changes your relationship with everything, with
family constellation work, when we heal other money, with work, with God, with nature, with
trauma, PTSD, any conditioning. There’s an yourself, with loved ones, with the people that
element, I think that’s always going to be there you don’t really care for, with the other political
with regard to attachment. And so again, I think party. Everything changes when it comes to your
family constellation is a good one where we’re relationships and how this works, so the impacts
sort of reenacting, so to speak with a therapist are really hard to overstate. It’s not just, it’s going
the interactions we have with specific family to fix my relationship with my loved one here. So
members. And through that, we can process some it’s so overarching it changes your entire world.
of this grief, anger or these different elements
that have been basically stuck that haven’t been Dr. Eva Detko [00:40:45] Yes, it does, it certainly
processed. does. But yeah, just to be realistic, like I said, it’s
a big puzzle with a lot of little pieces and it’s kind
And so I think that can be a form of attachment of fun as you see, at the beginning when you
work. I think with a lot of trauma work, there’s have a lot of attachment adaptations that are
these little pieces of attachment that can come screwing up your life, it’s not so much fun. But at
into that that are invariably there, because again, some point in this journey it can actually become
our entire world is relational. So whenever we’re quite fun because you can be catching yourself
working with any kind of trauma, then we’re out on your own B.S. and the whole journey of
working with a little bit of that a relational piece. self-development can actually be quite fun, in my
opinion. Is there anything else that you wanted to
Dr. Eva Detko [00:39:07] Yeah, I agree. And this share before we end, Jason?

23
Jason Prall [00:41:24] No, I think the last thing Jason Prall [00:42:42] You can find me at awaking
would be just to encourage people to investigate collective dot com. That’s where I do most of my
this, no matter where you’re at on this spectrum, work with regard to working with individuals and
if you think you have, all your relationships are sessions and personal growth, and this type of
great. There’s always something to discover when thing and trauma repair. And then also at the
you get into some of this deep attachment work. Human Longevity Project, which is more of the
Because again, its relationship primarily with health side of things.
yourself, that’s what it all comes back down to.
And when you have that relationship with yourself Dr. Eva Detko [00:43:00] Thank you so much for
it reflects outward. So there’s nobody in my mind your time. Thank you for this conversation. I do
that can’t benefit from doing some of this work hope that people find it enlightening again, we
with regard to attachment. cannot emphasize just how important this piece
is to not just illness recovery. But to be reaching
Dr. Eva Detko [00:41:58] Oh, yes, absolutely, I optimal levels of health this is an absolute must.
agree. Even if somebody initially attached security, It’s an absolute must. So thank you again. I really
still this is something that, you’re right, it has a appreciate you, we appreciate you and we’ll speak
lot of depth, it has a lot of layers and definitely again soon.
you can go deeper and deeper into it. Obviously,
a big piece here, a massive piece which we’ve Jason Prall [00:43:30] Thanks so much, Dr. Eve,
maybe not emphasized enough, is actually self- appreciate it.
awareness. You’re going nowhere with this work
without building self awareness all the time. So
that’s fantastic, I love this. I could talk about this
particular subject for a very long time. And with
regards to what you’re up to, anything that you
want to share about your work?

24
The Key Aspects of Biofield

Science
Christine Schaffner, ND
Dr. Eva Detko [00:00:11] Hello and welcome to Why are we talking about this in relation to
the Psycho-Energetic Root Causes of Chronic healing?
Illness Masterclass. I’m your host, Dr. Eva Detko,
and my guest for this session is Dr.Christine Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:01:28] Yeah, no,
Schaffner. I would love to, and this is an area that I have
become increasingly more passionate about, and
Dr.Christine is a board certified naturopathic I think this is really where the future of medicine
doctor who has helped thousands of people is taking us to have an understanding and a
recover from chronic or complex illnesses. language, and tools and therapies to integrate
Through online summits, her Spectrum of Health into our clinical work to help people really get to
podcast, network of Immanence health clinics the root cause of why they are sick. And so the
and renowned online programs. Dr. Schaffner biofield, to my understanding, is really this field of
goes beyond biological medicine, pulling from all information and energy that surrounds us. And it
systems of medicine and healing modalities to is bidirectional, it’s electromagnetic in nature, and
help patients reclaim their wellness, and revealed it also has this subtle energy aspect.
that brightest light.
And so I’ve been able to connect and I consider
So, Dr.Christine, hello, welcome. Thank you so her friend and mentor, Dr. Beverly Rubik, and she
much for joining us for this event. I’m so excited is a biophysicist from UC Berkeley. And she in the
because you always have juicy things to share. So 1990s really coined this term and really created
welcome. a movement to put this term into PubMed. So
that it could be studied, researched, and that we
Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:00:57] Oh, thank you could really dive deeper into this nature of who
so much for having me. It’s always so lovely to we are. And if this is a new language for you and
connect with you. a new conversation, just take a moment and
think about. We very much know in conventional
Dr. Eva Detko [00:01:01] I’m particularly excited medicine that we have an electromagnetic field
because this is the biofield talk and I just love the that extends almost six feet from our heart.
subject. I know you love the subject. It’s such an And it is measured with traditional conventional
important part in people’s healing, and they may technologies like EKGs.
not even realize that it is a thing. So let’s start by
giving a little bit of background explanation. What We also have brainwaves that are measured
is the human biofield? Why is this even important? with EEGs, and we have this understanding in

25
conventional medicine of the electrical potential about the triangle of healing as I call it. And
of cells and the electromagnetic nature of life. everybody’s got their own way of visualizing how
And so this is taking it deeper and seeing that, this whole complex system that is us human
OK, not only do we have this field of information system with the field and our biochemistry and
that’s emanating from us and emanating from our our mental, emotional field, how that all set up
heart, our brain, our cells, but it’s also informing looks. But when I’m talking about the triangle of
us. So I like to think about it as it’s a whole other healing, I’m talking about the biochemical physical
way to look at the communication network within and I’m talking about the mental emotional
our bodies and surrounding our bodies. And the and then I’m talking about the energetic and
more that we can tune in and understand how the spiritual. And really within that what’s important
language of the biofield. I think that this is really to understand for people is that everything
where we can take our healing on a deeper level, affects everything. This is one complex system.
and I’m sure you’re aware of Dr. Joe Dispenza. I’ve And so obviously, you did actually mention the
been going down the rabbit hole with his work, visualizations, the meditation. This is one of the
and I’ve been really exploring it within my own life. most powerful tools that we have. We can do so
Just because I had so many patients getting just much just with that, never mind all those other
really great results with doing the meditations and neuroscience tools that we have available.
connecting with that community.
But even if you just make a commitment to
So many seemingly miracles that happen in that that sort of work, yes, you will see unbelievable
community. And there’s something that really changes. And what’s also interesting is you
stuck with me, this saying that he often says, mentioned the difference between that the
and it’s “to change matter with matter takes biochemical and the energetic. And even Joe
time.” And I think that we’re really great at that Dispenza quotes that in his book and other
in the functional medicine and the naturopathic people, I’ve seen other people quote this as
medicine community. That we really understand well. Just to give people an idea that this field
biochemistry and root cause from these physical of electromagnetic signals is 168,000 miles
imbalances and we know how to do that. But it per second. And compared that to a diffusible
takes time, and by the time someone comes to chemical, which is less than one centimeter per
us right, they’ve been searching far too long and second. That’s basically, when you said that it
then they are on the right healing path. But I want takes much longer to change matter with matter.
them to get better, quicker, get well as quickly Yet when you bring the energetics into this whole
as possible. And so he has the saying, “when you scenario, you can achieve much greater changes,
change the field, you change matter.” So I’ve been much more quickly. And this is one of the reasons
contemplating that with my clinical work. So how why. Because of the speed of signaling. And yeah,
do we really change the field that’s around us, it’s powerful. Very powerful.
the biofield and the fields within us, to have more
accelerated, elegant paths to healing? So this is Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:07:07] Yeah. And
the exploration, and I think this is the bridging this I am so glad you mentioned that, and as we
biofield science with functional medicine is really think through the biochemical lens, we’re taught
where I see the future of medicine going. in school this whole lock and key model. That
there’s this kind of idea of these hormones or
Dr. Eva Detko [00:05:02] Yeah. And I quote Joe molecules kind of bumping into a receptor and
Dispenza in my book, and I also talk in my book then turning on a cell and then everything shifts.

26
And through the work of Dr. Bruce Lipton as well So that’s one way that people perceive it. Not
and I really love always referencing Dr. James everybody has the ability to see it, although I feel
Oschman’s book Energy Medicine, he really put a going forward more and more people will have
wonderful text together diving into this. And he the ability to see it, as we’re kind of changing in
talks about essentially that there are these fields, that way. But a lot of people can feel that. And
that the fields basically are drawing these things then as we interact with animals or other things
to each other rather than this random event. in our environment, trees, we also will have those
And I think when you start to think of the body experiences. And that’s because you have that
like everything, as you said, everything in life has interaction between our energetic fields. Isn’t that
a field. And then when you start thinking about very really fascinating?
all of the communication that’s happening, just
beyond what we can see in hear, there’s just this Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:10:15] Mm-Hmm.
whole unlimited aspect to look at our physiology. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that also when you
think about the practitioner, client or patient
And so he talks about that we omit bio photons, relationship, there’s this whole information
so light, which means more quickly, bio phonons exchange that happens. I think, we can think
which are sounds our cells make sounds, about it in like a way to be protected and also
molecules make sound in the body, and there’s cautious of who we engage with and really
this whole other communication happening to trusting those feelings. And then when I think
them. The end result might be drawing these two, about the work that I do with patients and now
let’s say, thyroid hormone into a receptor in the we’re doing it more remotely, but hey, quantum
cell membrane and then that comes together and entanglement, we’re all connected. But what I
turns on the cells. So I think there is just such an see is that there’s this opportunity when we’re in
opportunity to think about how do we support resonance and we’re in an exchange. There is this
and add coherent information into our physiology opportunity for us to connect and not only gain
to really shift things on a more elegant way. information from each other. But also whenever
I think about the biofield now I zoom out and
Dr. Eva Detko [00:08:53] Yeah. And I love it that think a lot about the unified field in the electric
you said that essentially everything vibrates, universe. And that we’re literally swimming in
everything has a frequency. And at the beginning, this sea of electrical potential and charge, and
you said, our field extends several feet away essentially, it’s not this empty space. There is this
from the body, between a meter and a half to whole possibility. And so I think a lot of how we
two meters. Actually, some people’s fields are can continue to evolve and look at this and give
bigger than other people. But basically what that people a language. Because again, the more you
means is that as we come together, as humans understand to put attention to this, the more that
and we interact together, our fields overlap. And you can work with these principles and actually
that is certainly something that I’m sure a lot of experience them, I think that part of quantum
people will relate to this, when I say sometimes physics to the observer. And so, I think about,
when somebody comes into your field and you the thought that just coming to make this more
immediately feel, no, I don’t want this person practical to people.
in this field. You may not see the field, but you
feel it, you feel that somebody just violated your So I do a lot of muscle testing. So I do something
energetic space. called automatic response testing, and I’m often,
part of my intake is talking to people and doing

27
all my clinical work and using my mental hat, and come up with different things like, the modality
I’m thinking about all these things for patients. you use, how well you know it. And he says, “no,
And then if they’re in the office, they lay on a not of it. It’s actually the relationship between the
table. I have my assistant and then myself, and client and the therapist.” That’s going to literally,
we are doing a series of methodology to really like that’s like 80 90 percent of the outcome really
communicate with the body. But I also think that because of that connectivity and that connection,
there’s a whole other layer that’s happening and that energy exchange. And so I remember, at that
that my biofield, is interacting with my assistants time, I thought that was really quite interesting.
biofield, that’s interacting with my patients But he had 30 years of experience in therapy, so I
biofield. And then we’re connected to something considered that he knows what he’s talking about.
greater to get information for that patient. And so
often, yes, the technique is prompting me to think, And certainly I’ve observed over the years that
but often like I’ll get another thought or another there is something there, that is over and above,
set of information for that patient. My assistant because of the energy exchange. Over and
might be saying the same or thinking the same above what you would have in terms of effect
thing at the same time. if you just used a technique in this kind of like
a dry kind of matter of fact way going through
So I just have this other lens of like all these the motions. If you engage your energy, if you
interacting fields with the intention to help this engage your intuitive senses, you’re going to get
person. We just open ourselves up to so much a completely different result. And if you have
more, than if we just thought about, OK, what resonance because that’s really the key word
did I learn in school? What research paper did I here, resonance with the patient and there is that
have? Like, how do I apply this? So I think this is resonance going back and forth. It’s magical, it’s
something that I experience every day and I try really magical.
to again put more and more of a language of like,
what’s actually happening in these interactions. So if I’m sort of going off in that direction and
people are thinking, what is she on about? I want
Dr. Eva Detko [00:13:17] It’s so true. I completely to sort of now bring myself back and just in case
relate to what you’re saying because I have always people are listening and going like, no, I still
worked quite intuitively with people. Meaning that don’t get it. I want to make a bit of a connection
if I have a client, I will never plan what I’m going between the biofield stuff, the electromagnetics
to do in the session. I’m going to react to what the of the body and the autonomic nervous system.
person is bringing to the session, and I literally Because we talk a lot about the fight and flight
in that moment will know what to do and what and the nervous system balance and vagus nerve
technique to use to serve this person best, and and all of that. Maybe to give people a better
basically fulfill whatever their needs are in that understanding that this are not separate things.
moment, best. And how to take them forward in This is still part of the same system and very much
the best possible way. I’ve always worked that connected, and one will affect the other.
way. And it’s interesting because I remember
when I first studied hypnotherapy many, many Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:16:13] Yeah,
years ago. I remember my teacher at the time was absolutely. And I think a good bridge to kind of
asking us as a group. He said, “What do you think pull this all together, I believe is through the lens
is the most, number one factor when it comes of thinking of this idea of heart, brain coherence.
to your success as a therapist?” And so people And so this has been well studied as well and

28
through the work of heart math and Dr. Rollin Dr. Eva Detko [00:18:43] Yeah, I that’s a great
McCraty. This idea is that when we get into these explanation, and you mentioned brain oscillations,
coherence states of consciousness, we have so that’s another thing for people to sort of
a profound ripple effect on our physiology in connect those dots together, is to think about
a positive way, and so this translates into the the fact that the frequency of a brain determines
autonomic nervous system again. So when you really the processes that are created. And when
think about it, it’s very simple, I mean, these are we’re talking about this fact that everything
very simple principles, but how often are we doing affects everything else, you could, for instance,
this? And so, that’s a lot of part of meditation and let’s say you hurt yourself and you go, ouch,
these practices is beginning with opening your that’s a physical thing. But then immediately that
heart. changes your brain frequency, that then affects
your electromagnetic signature. And let’s say that
And so our heart, when you think about just pain turns chronic, it will affect you emotionally as
from a physical level, we actually have more well. And then that will then kind of go on a loop
information going from our heart to our brain and starts affecting you more and maybe putting
than our brain to our heart. And when we think you more into those survival states. And then
about the nervous system and our neurology, we that will further imbalance your biofield, your
sometimes think of gut brain, but we don’t think electromagnetics, it will further imbalance the
of heart brain as much, you know? And so you body and the physical level.
know what Dr. Rollin McCraty is really sharing is
that. When we get into these positive states of So it’s just again to emphasize that we’re not
love, gratitude appreciation, we have more of a talking about some separate entities here, but we
rhythmic coherent flow of information that we’re talking about this one complex system and how
generating from the field of our heart. And then it works at the electromagnetic level and cellular
that translates into a more coherent information level, the nervous system level, whatever level, it’s
in our field, and that actually informs our brain all literally one and the same. It’s just that there
and creates more coherent brainwaves. And so are many, many, many different layers to this
there is this kind of idea from that angle. And then complex system.
there is also a connection from the heart to the
limbic part of the brain. Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:20:16] I know a lot
of your work obviously is around the autonomic
So when we’re in these states, we’re actually nervous system and the nervous system and
sending coherent, more calming, more brain waves and all of that. And I’m a visual
physiologically adapted messages to the limbic person and I have seen it through the work of
part of the brain. And so I think that we can look cymatics. Have you studied that? So that’s where
at it from these angles. But I think a big part of we can look at how frequencies can change
when I try to help support people to understand matter and make kind of like frequencies visible.
how does this all make sense? I think from And so I was researching and looking into this,
my understanding is that the more coherent and they’ve actually studied and shown the
information we have that we either generate or frequency of brainwaves. And so from beta, alpha,
that we apply to our field. That only organizes theta, delta that they create these patterns and
more coherent information through our nervous that these patterns of information. So it’s like this
system, through our cells, and then that has a frequency creates patterns, I believe in the fluids
ripple effect into balanced physiology. in the body.

29
So the cerebrospinal fluid, the fluids in the cells, infections, I think about our circadian biology is
and then these patterns of information translate all disrupted. So you know how we’re affected by
into biochemical messages. And so that’s kind a mismatch of circadian lighting throughout the
of how I’m again, there’s so much to learn in day and how that affects our pineal gland as well
between each of those steps. But from the high as pineal gland toxicity. Of course, toxicants we’re
level overview, I think that’s the translation overwhelmed by a lot of toxicants that disrupt our
between the bio energetics, the biophysics physiology, and I do think they also disrupt the
and the biochemistry. So that’s something that exclusion zone water in the body.
if people are interested in, they can Google
cymatics. So you can really see how frequency You’re obviously very well versed in the vagus
effects matter. And so that can kind of maybe nerve and I think about it through the lens of
gel these ideas that they’re not just esoteric, but vagus nerve toxicity and infection that’s disrupting
they’re really grounded in a lot of science, and I the vagus nerve communication ability. I think
know you and I both know. about imbalanced ecosystem between Lyme
and co-infections and viruses and retroviruses
Dr. Eva Detko [00:21:47] Yeah, thank you for and parasites and mold and yeast. That’s a
bringing that in, that’s excellent. I love it, I love terrain issue in my book. I think that these are
that you brought that in. So when we’re talking opportunistic and stealth, and they take hold in
about this whole system and how we can improve a compromised terrain. So and then, of course,
it, what can potentially disrupt it. Let’s talk a little trauma and un-metabolize emotions and living
bit about some of the most common offenders in fear, all of these things can have a profound
when it comes to creating those imbalances that effect on us, and I think they disrupt us from
people may have over time can lead to ill health. so many angles. But I think these insults in my
understanding and I know you’re probably,
Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:22:18] In my practice asked this like, “OK, what’s wrong with me?” And
I look around at biofield science and then I also all these things, and how to make a language
have studied and, integrate a lot of what we call of this because we’re not in that paradigm of
bio regulatory medicine or biological medicine. conventional diagnosis, one treatment, your
That’s the European kind of biological medicine healed. It’s like this whole other way of looking at
and a big proponent of that is twofold, it’s all the body.
about regulation. So if the body is not in balance
and there’s disease there’s roadblocks to the So I’ve thought about this and I thought, OK,
body’s ability to self-regulate and heal and our so all of the things I just shared, like effector
job is to figure out why. And also part of that is extracellular matrix, they can affect what we call
around terrain theory. the cell danger response and keep that going.
Because that’s where our body’s threatened,
So I think a lot about, what is the modern terrain congest the lymphatic system also activate or
and why are people so sick these days? And what mast cells, which are in the connective tissue, and
are these interferences that are affecting us on unfortunately, there’s all this sensitivity going on
a physical level and of course, a bio energetic with that, effect the microbiomes in the body,
level as well? So when I think about that Dr. Eva, the structure the water within us and within the
I think about interference fields, so those can be cells. And then they also block autonomic nervous
these electrical disturbances in the body that are system. I think also affect the fascia. So the fascia,
created through scars, dental interferences, focal I think, is a huge communication network in the

30
body and effect the biofield. how I approach patients.
So all of this leads to what I would say is this lack So one of the first things I do, I think is very
of coherence and disease. This all disrupts our important. If you’ve been stuck for a while and
body’s ability to self-regulate and heal. I’m not you haven’t gotten what you need. Really do a
saying I just use biofield therapies, of course they checklist of what we would call interference fields
do, I think they’re really profound and they have and see if there’s something there that hasn’t
to be part of the equation. But we also look at been addressed. So those could be any scars from
the physical and I my hope for really where we’re surgeries or traumas that can affect the electrical
going with medicine is the integration. Because signaling in the fascia, can affect the lymphatics,
again, that equation when we change the field they can hold on to trauma, they can really block
and change matter. So we have to have therapies meridians as well. So scars can be important to
that address the field, but also how do we support look at and then also the dental aspect. So if you
that information coming in as well? still have any dental toxicity or infection that can
affect your autonomic nervous system, it can
Dr. Eva Detko [00:26:03] Yeah, the integration affect all the microbiomes in the body, it can be
is really interesting because again, it’s a system. this constant stress in the lymphatics and the
We’re not just going to take one thing out and circulatory system.
just do that and abandon everything else. We’re
still humans in the physical human form, we So that would be a big place to look. And then
need to look after our physical bodies, it’s not just again, to create resilience we’re always looking
about the subtle fields although they’re obviously at tools and therapies that help to support the
super important to balance and keep balanced. extracellular matrix and the lymphatics and all
So what can we tell people, because obviously of the organs of elimination. So the liver and
it can feel overwhelming, right? It can feel really the gallbladder, and the colon, and the kidneys,
overwhelming when we’re just listing all of the and the skin, and the lungs. So just really, these
things that are interfering with us and then all of are the drain engine detoxification tools and
the things that we need to get right and balance. integrating binders which had to bind and excrete
So some of your maybe top tips on how, let’s say bio toxins and toxicants. So that’s really laying the
somebody is maybe just starting their journey foundation and then depending on where you
or maybe they’ve already done this and that, but are, how do we balance the microbiomes and the
they’re not really getting very far with it. What ecosystem within the body? And one of the things
would you say? with all of these stressors that I think can be very
supportive is, how to create really a healthy and
Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:26:59] Yeah, safe sleeping location. Sleep is such an important
absolutely. And I know this can be really part of our body’s ability to heal and repair and
overwhelming and I’m an optimist so even support our brains ability to detoxify. And a lot of
knowing what we’re up against, I do feel that our these stresses are cumulative over time, so even
job is to create resilience. So we’re not going to thinking of electro smog.
get rid of every bug, rid of every toxicant, every
stress. But we can really feel empowered how we But if we can really get a break or a reduced
can continue to adapt and regulate and respond, effect during hopefully eight hours of sleep,
and basically stay healthy in light of all these that can really give you a leading edge. And so
stressors. So that’s a big goal for our work and thinking about at least turning the Wi-Fi router

31
off at night, being in an environment that has Dr. Eva Detko [00:32:02] Yeah, lots of great tips
the least amount of possible of electro smog. there. From my point of view, I talk a lot about
And then having blackout shades, that can be emotional resilience and energetic resilience.
very helpful as well, so looking at sleep hygiene. To me, doing emotional work and trauma
Then there are so many tools, what I would say work is absolutely essential, particularly what
to work with the biofield and what I would say is, people often neglect is attachment trauma and
how do we add coherent information to the field intergenerational trauma, even ancestral trauma.
and then how do we support you in generating Because obviously from the point of view of,
your own coherence? So we all have the ability particularly the subtle field that sits in your field
to connect with our heart, we all have the ability and there are loads of techniques that we can use
to open up to walk through these meditations to clear that. And then you were saying, that it’s
and visualizations. We are generating a coherent not just about just doing this one thing and then
electromagnetic signature in our biofield when we’re done. Of course, it’s not like that.
we do those things. And that helps us to, I believe,
not only connect with ourselves on a deeper And so I encourage people to, when they’re
level, but also potentially to this unlimited field taking stock of where they are and where they
of information that surrounds us. Where that is need to place some emphasis, and where they
a access point, when we connect with that, that’s might need to do some work. I encourage you
when so much is possible. all people watching to look at the things that the
one of things that you can just do them once.
So that, and then when we think about biofield For instance, if you’re setting up your bedroom
therapies, there’s a lot of different therapies out to be EMF free, you can just do it once and
there from light to sound and frequency devices. then it’s done and then tick, it’s going to have
I think the future is going to be that we all have a major positive impact on you already. And
wearable frequency devices that add frequency then there’s going to be other things like, for
signatures from different remedies and things instance, early trauma. And again, some of this
to keep us resilient during this time. And again stuff, once you dealt with it, you’ve dealt with
of course, your work, whatever tools that are it, but you actually need to do the work. And
available and resonate with you to help heal the then just like Dr.Christine just said, there will be
trauma, the limbic system, the stuck emotions those things that you really need to be doing
that are in your fascia, your tissues. These are on a daily basis. Challenging the fascia like yoga
the things that I go through every day when I’m or whatever exercise, bouncing up and down.
thinking about how to support patients. We got Because obviously the fascia needs to be like
to get away from that model where we think one squeezed, released, squeezed, released to get the
thing is going to fix us and then we’re healed fluids moving through it. That’s really obviously
forever and we don’t need to look at this again. important. And then you obviously, I’m sure
This is a dynamic time to be on the planet and everybody’s aware of all the thousands of benefits
we really do need to have lifestyle practices and of doing physical activity because we’re designed
a conversation. This is just being part of the plan, to move.
we need to embrace this rather than avoid it.
And this, I believe, will allow us not only to have So there has to be movement. There has to be
healthier physical bodies, but also healthier time every day when you go in, when you really
spiritual and mental-emotional bodies as well. focus inwards, when you calm everything down.
So those are the practices, it’s almost like the

32
three categories that you can put all of those that’s very well said. So it’s exciting, right? I’m just
things into. And then hopefully you’re then so excited that through your work and education
creating your own very sort of individualized plan and the work that we’re doing as a community.
and approach to all this. And as for devices, I’ve That there’s a tipping point that more and more
been using by resonance therapy for a long time, people are going to understand that this is really,
this technology is already here. I’ve experimented truly, how they work and how they heal. And it’s
with a lot of devices. I own four of them myself, not going to be just in these niche corners, but it’s
and it’s just great. So it’s not something that going to be more mainstream. That’s my hope.
people need to look up to the future that it’s
coming. No, it’s already here. Dr. Eva Detko [00:36:43] Yeah. And it’s going to
give people more sovereignty over their health
Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:34:46] Yeah, and I just love that. That for me, that’s where it
definitely. And I think my point is it’s becoming is. Everybody watching this already has so much
more outside of just the clinical, that there’s going power over their own health and healing. They
to be more affordable, accessible, wearable. That may not fully realize it or they haven’t maybe fully
everyone can have a frequency device either learned to explore it, but it’s there and we need to
accessible in their home or they can use on a daily tap into it. And so, yeah, the more we talk about
basis. But I agree, I know that we both respect and it, the more we bring the information out there,
utilize that work every day and so it’s a great way the more it helps people tap into their actual
to gain insight for our patients. resources.
Dr. Eva Detko [00:35:14] Yeah and it’s powerful So this is fantastic information as usual, I love
work. And it’s another thing that I wanted to add talking to you. But before we end, I wanted to ask
is a lot of the strategies that are going to help you you, first of all, is there anything that you want
are the same strategies, for instance, that engage to share specifically about any of your projects
your vagus nerve will also help balance your by anything that you’re doing? But just also ask about
your biofield. So you have to be strategic pick your favorite, maybe top three ways that you use
things that resonate because again, if something personally to keep yourself more grounded, more
resonates with you it makes you feel good, then balance, more healthy.
it’s obviously right for you. But it’s not like one
thing is going to be right for everybody. So that’s Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:37:46] Yeah, thank
another thing. you. Well it’s always a work in progress, but I do
make an effort to meditate every day and so I
So I always encourage people to really tune start my day with that. So I try to get into that
into themselves like, Hey, do you like being in heart-brain coherent state and just really relax
nature? Will then do that more, because obviously my nervous system and connect. And that has
it’s working for you. Or whether it is gratitude been a really amazing gift for me to explore. I
journaling or deep breathing or yoga or whatever also, if you’re in my office here, I have an infrared
it is, and establish those practices. Because they’re light that I use, so I love light therapy. I also have
not just going to help you with one thing it’s this Weber watch that I wear often to help add
going to have this sort of impact throughout this bio photons to my body. One of the frequency
complex system that we’re talking about. devices that I’m using more and more in my
practice and at home is called AO scan.
Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:36:18] Yeah, I think

33
So it’s something that I essentially scan my body Dr. Eva Detko [00:39:48] Fabulous. Lovely, thank
every day and see if I need to adjust anything that you for sharing. Just on behalf of everybody
I’m doing as well. I love sound therapy and so watching and myself, I want to just express my
there’s part of that technology that is called Inner gratitude. Thank you. I know you’re so busy and
Voice. And that helps to read your vocal tones and you took the time to speak to us, so it’s really,
see where you need more support by adding the really appreciated. Thank you so much.
missing tones in your voice, and so that is really
healing. So I’m very responsive and sensitive to Dr. Christine Schaffner [00:40:06] Well, thank
sound. I go to acupuncture once a week. We do all you for the work that you’re doing and thank you
sorts of things in the clinic that I try to make time for the invitation, it’s always so lovely to connect.
for as well.
So I definitely try to practice what I preach and

have these things into my life. And then, of course,
my family and my daughter know, just keep my
heart open and I just have so much love and
gratitude that I experience on a regular basis with
my family. So that keeps me going. As far as what
I’m up to, I have a website, DrChristineSchaffner.
com so my podcast is on there. I have a clinic in
Seattle. We also do telemedicine, and we employ
a lot of these things that I said in the clinic. So I
have a really great team that I work with and the
clinic’s name is Immanence Health.com:


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Enjoy these 3 expert talk transcripts from The Psycho-

The Impact of Attachment Trauma

The Key Aspects of Biofield Science

HighSpeed Healing: What to

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

Eva: And we are genuinely honored to have

Debora: Very welcome.

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Impact of Attachment

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Key Aspects of Biofield

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

body and effect the biofield. how I approach patients.

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

The Psycho-Energetic Root

So I definitely try to practice what I preach and

The Psycho-Energetic Root

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