i know people are going to be asking why

is the smartest man in the world living

on a farm

in the middle of missouri

[Music]

welcome to my extremely ethereal and

trippy new set i feel as though i am

floating in a cloud here in this

all-white venue and perhaps that is

fitting

for this first interview in a series of

much longer much more in-depth

interviews i'm so excited that my first

guest is christopher langan the smartest

man in the world

i do not say that as a subjective

statement or to flatter chris i mean

that in as technical a way as possible

chris has one of if not the highest iq

ever recorded somewhere between 100 90

195 and 210

and chris is not here by way of some

fancy distinguished professorship at

such and such brand name university nor

did chris just get off of his private

yacht

out of the south of france and come here

to leave his billion dollar company

chris came here

from a farm in missouri after a career

as a bouncer at bars around new york

chris

thank you very much for coming on thank

you for inviting me michael i first

stumbled onto you when i was 18 years

old freshman in college and

listen i barely got out of high school

math i barely got out of calculus so i

got out of high school myself

that's a good point

but i said this guy he's saying things

that are really really interesting and

so i want to learn more i've wanted to

talk to you ever since then i know that

before we get into

metaphysics the existence of god free

will politics culture and everything in

between

i know people are going to be asking

why is the smartest man in the world

why is he not just buying and selling

all of us all the time why is it why is

he living on a farm

in the middle of missouri

well that's a good question and it's

that i was never actually interested in

money when i was a

when i was a kid we my brothers and i my

family we were not exactly the richest

folks in town

we seldom had enough money to buy you

know food or

clothes

and so i sort of immersed myself in in

books and reading and decided that what

i wanted to do was pursue knowledge it

costs you nothing to pursue knowledge

really i provided you you can sustain

yourself while you're in pursuit of it

so that's what i did i simply focused

myself on i want to know the truth about

reality i want to know you know what

kind of world it is that i'm living in

and that's what i that's what i went for

now as far as the making money is

concerned one thing that i found out is

that there are certain ingredients uh

certain certain advantages that you need

in order to become rich of course it

helps to be born with money that's the

use also that's the easiest way and it

helps to have a lot of connections yeah

okay the right kind of connections and

it helps not to alienate the people who

have all the money because then they'll

exclude you and cancel you you know

that's what they do that's what canceled

culture is basically people are being

frozen out of the economy

okay and i found myself getting frozen

out of the economy that way from an

early age i mean i was you know i tried

to go to college but uh ran into a

couple of problems personnel problems on

the faculties of the colleges in

question and that stopped me you know

that basically when you get you know

when you you you can't get a college

education you are canceled economically

presumably though you

you know you show up to college

even though you've got a tough

upbringing and you know not not any real

advantages in terms of family or society

but

you're obviously you've got a higher iq

than anybody in the room you're

obviously extremely smart you're

extremely self-educated so you get into

college it should be

a total breeze for you well it was a

total breeze

for me too much of a breeze for me you

know you ask the wrong kinds of

questions of people who are full of

themselves and think they have all the

answers

you know like you know in a calculus

class you know say well you know why

don't you explain exactly how what an

infinite decimal interval is and how you

can traverse from one end to the other

and you know they'll look at you as

though you've got two heads i ask that

all the time

i ask my waiters i yeah well i got a

very poor reaction out of that there was

a there was a

math instructor in an albert license

ring i think who decided that i must be

absolutely

brain dead i mean i went and went into

his office you know

this guy was a very strange character

he's about six and a half feet tall

he'd come into class you know everybody

would be waiting there for him he'd make

a late entrance you know be waiting for

10-15 minutes he'd walk in right with a

this great big stack of mimeograph

sheets and then he'd hand out you know

walk around the room methodically

handing out these sheets

to all of the students and everybody

would have a sheet in front of them then

he'd walk up to the room and and symbol

for symbol

everything that was written on the

sheets would appear on the blackboard

then he'd turn around and walk out

now finally i i you know i thought what

you know i was having a hard time with

this there were certain things that i

you know didn't quite understand how he

was

why he was doing them the way he was

so i kept on trying to track him down to

his office he was never in his office

you know i would wait in the hall for

you know hours and hours for this guy i

never showed up finally i caught him in

his office

and i said hi professor licen ring can i

come in

well i'm really kind of busy right now

and i well yeah i i just wanted to ask

you one question you know how why do you

do this why are you taking a set

theoretic approach

to the calculus like this you know i

mean

they don't seem to be compatible you

know on the one hand you know the

calculus deals with change whereas sets

are static things why are you state why

are you taking this particular

approach to it
and he looks at me and he's you know

asperger's victim right yeah and he

looks at me looks down his thing he says

well you know some people just don't

have the mental firepower to be

mathematicians

well what was i supposed to do

hit the guy i wanted it right right but

he says something that's sort of

pathetic almost to say but it is it is

pathetic but it basically told me a lot

about how he sees the world how he sees

other people i don't want to take a

course from a guy like that yeah you

know and it offended me because i was

you know i've been a poor kid i just

came off a ranch i've been working all

summer punching cows you know and uh and

there i was you know i met all these

there was a bunch of hippies in there

right basically new york hippies

uh

no i won't call them hippies these are

basically affluent kids from new york

the place where i went was basically

that was the client that was the

clientele that was a student body right

and they all couldn't you know they were

constantly talking asking questions

bright for the most part but i felt like

a fish out of water right it was culture

shock for me yeah you know what is this

you know i'm i'm used to you know being

around a bunch of uh you know hay seeds

yeah cowboys you know punching cows you

know going to the you know bar at night

or whatever drinking beer and uh there

was nothing like that these kids are

sitting around smoking pot you know

doing drugs you know psychedelics now

just to clarify when he says not

everyone has the power to be a

mathematician

was was this an admission

of his own failure to explain his

process

he's calling you stupid yes wow he was

claiming that i didn't have the

intellectual firepower

to be a mathematician or at least that's

the way i interpret it yeah and because

i was used to being slighted in that way

i mean you know i kind of grew up in a

rough and tumble if people feel

intellectually threatened by you you get

a lot of this kind of thing so i i

assumed that that's what was happening

and i've never seen never heard anything

after that that would lead me to believe

anything different so

so you leave college presumably you're

much more intelligent than

anyone that you're going to meet on the

faculty or in the students so you leave

college what is it about

being a

bar bouncer what what is it about that

that physical activity because

presumably even without a college degree

you could have done some middling paper

pushing job and it probably wouldn't

have been very lucrative or fulfilling

for you

but presumably you could have done

something like that instead of a

tough physical potentially dangerous job

like you're being a bouncer

could have but there are certain there

are certain problems that you know i

can't

for example when i was in new york i got

a job in a grommet factory

okay it was stimson gromits

you know you had grumman aircraft there

you know they got military defense

contracts i think they were working on

f-16s at one point

and then there's a you know there was

simpson grommets which produced these

aircraft rivets for these airplanes and

i had this machine and man the the sound

the noise from this machine wham wham

wham no hearing protection no nothing

was issued to anybody yeah and i started

you know like losing my hearing and

and so forth and i figured well i can't

stand this anymore i got to get out of

here so i was about to leave but i had a

girlfriend and she said no i want you to

stay so i figured okay let me see if i

can get out of the kind of job so i took

the civil service exam and was offered a

job by the irs

and that of course was a moral dilemma

yeah that's what i had worse than

exactly exactly how awful do i want to

be as a person you know

and i decided that i needed to go home

anyway yeah so i went back to montana at

that point

um but

basically then what i found out well

i went back to new york when i was in my

late 20s

that's when i started doing the bar

bouncing thing right but and i wasn't

making that much money i was working for

forty dollars a night coming out of

there bloody you know with rip shirts

ripped off my back you couldn't i

couldn't even pay for the shirts

you know right that i was making so i

figured okay what i'll do is i'll take

the civil service exam again

now this is i don't want to sound

insensitive but at that point in new

york there was a a protocol whereby you

take the civil service exam and if you

are a minority if you are non-white you

get

30 extra points yeah but this

there's nothing insensitive this is just

a fact i mean it's the fact of our laws

of fact they've been doing it for a long

time it's called affirmative action of

course

and uh when that happens you know and

i'm applying to be say a police officer

right and uh all of these other guys

these non-white guys are you know

looking also to be police officers

you learn that there's a a line of 3 000

guys in front of you this is so then you

give up your idea of being a police

officer and you give up your idea of

ever succeeding getting a job on the

basis of a civil service exam now they

do have you know white police officers

in new york but almost all those guys

are connected they've got some kind of

uncle or acquaintance or somebody who's

on the police force that will put in a

good

a good word for them i didn't have

anybody like that and merit made no

difference whatsoever this is not a

meritocracy we live in yeah you can take

any number of these tests and outscore

everybody else and get nothing and

nowhere and it's especially true of

civil service it's it's true in a lot of

fields in the economy but especially in

civil service that has been a pronounced

issue for a long time so

presumably during all this time though

you're not just saying as many people do

when they leave college whether they

graduate or not they say okay well

that's it i'm never reading a book again

i'm done with all that book learning

something tells me that's not not your

mindset even as you're doing these

physical jobs it certainly was and i

would i would like go to library sales

and

found a little bookstore you know that

had some academic books in it and just

get whatever i could and i always had to

uh

i had to basically read whatever i found

i couldn't afford to order a book you

know i mean even back then books were

expensive so i couldn't go to a

bookstore and pay full price for a book

so i was constantly buying used books

which were you know when they were

textbooks

they were used and therefore outmoded

you know the field advances the book

stays the same but nevertheless you know

it's got some of the stuff that i need

in it then i can i can absorb that so

that's what i did yeah just basically

worked on my uh you know on my own ideas

trying to apply what i read in these

books

was there any field that attracted you

in particular i mentioned that i don't

have anything past

high school math and even that it was

pretty sketchy on

math physics philosophy theology

well now when i was uh 14 i was working

on a ranch in wilson montana which is

just across the bridges from bozeman i

don't know if you're familiar with

boseman but anyway i was uh you know

working as a as punching cow stacking

hay irrigating on this ranch and uh and

i took two books with me and one of them

was a book by by albert einstein on the

theory of relativity and the other one

was a book by bertrand russell

okay

and

i i would read these books i was living

in a covered wagon they call it a sheep

wagon these days but literally literally

i'm not kidding i mean that's what it

was you know kerosene lamp in a in a

sheep wagon out in the middle of a field

of reading bertrand russell and alberto

reading bertrand wrestling albert

einstein and it occurred to me

these two things really need to be put

together

and then

you know once i decided that i started

putting them together and then i found

out about kurt gerdell and the

undecidability theorem and and

yes absolutely

okay you see because reality isn't just

geometric which is what einstein thought

it was nor is it just linguistic it's a

blend of the two

right russell saw it as being linguistic

einstein saw it as being geometric

okay so i decided that reality must be

logical geometric

putting the two of them together and of

course then i realized well i've got to

put together a theory construct a theory

in which reality is actually logical

geometric and so that's where the ctmu

came from

and the ctmu is the cognitive theoretic

model of the cognitive theoretic model

of the universe this is your theory of

everything my theory of everything and

it's all in the name if you take a good

close look at that you've got cognitive

theory and of course you know a theory

is a kind of language theoretic language

okay then you've got cognitive theoretic

model you've got a model and then you've

got universe

you've got a language you've got a

universe and then the model is the

mapping between them

ctmu says those are all the same thing

all of those terms all of those those uh

those properties are distributed

everywhere over reality

reality can have only one structure

when once you realize that and you

implement it in theoretical form so then

the question i asked you is kind of a

stupid question because i said which

field was it that attracted you and your

answer is yes

[Laughter]

well

i would have to say it would have to be

logic and language and then physics and

mathematics

okay so those are the those are the

fields and that's what i thought i was

conveying but

yes apparently i need to spell it out

you do no you do because but this is so

important that

you're not just talking about

this siloed aspect of thought or this

you know philosophy over here

language over here math over here

physics over here but you're presenting

something that is universal

correct

correct absolute and universal

to get the absolute invariance the

absolute truths of reality

you know things that are true everywhere

you go no matter you know at what time

you exist or in what place you exist

it's the same

so for those of us who have an iq that's

a little bit lower than yours

i'm i'll admit it i with no false

modesty and no uh undue confidence well

iq is not the last word in intelligence

by any means

iq is where you focus you can focus

marshall all your intellectual energy

and focus it very tightly on one item

that you've been presented with okay

there's tests contain items and you're

focusing on each one of those items

you're not seeing anything else

okay and that's what iq is

but in addition to that depth and that

focus there is also aperture think of

the mind as a kind of camera

okay what a lot of high iq people have a

lot of difficulty doing is widening

their mental aperture you've got to be

flexible you've got to be able to widen

and narrow that aperture at will as

you're doing the depth perception too so

you've got the

focus

depth of focus the magnification

as it were yeah plus the aperture and

most people you know most high iq people

they have the magnification but they

don't have the aperture so then from the

perspective

simultaneously i suppose both of depth

and breadth here

if we're talking about a theory of

everything the first question we have to

establish

does god exist

yes

simple yes

it's the identity has a the reality has

an identity

okay the identity is that as which

something exists okay

another matter of fact when you say the

word reality you're naming an identity

it is you're identifying something

this i'm smiling because your answer on

this is so beautiful it it just reminds

me of of moses at the burning bush and

moses at the burning bush says who shall

i tell the people that you are talking

to god and god says tell them i am that

i am right i am identity itself i'm

being himself exactly that's exactly

right that's what the ctmu says it's

just comes up with the mathematical

structure that you need to build a

reality out of that

you see

so you come up with that identity and

then you search it for its properties

you see once you've built the

preliminary framework then you start

deducing the properties of this identity

and you find out that those properties

match those of god as described in most

of the world's major religions

right just the theistic religion so i'm

thinking judaism christianity and islam

or are you talking also of saying

buddhism taoism hinduism buddhism of

course hinduism and buddhism they have a

god

taoism you know they the

their central principle is the way

or the dao okay

and uh they don't see dao as as as god

and then in buddhism of course you've

got you know they they are trying

basically to achieve sunyata or

emptiness right which is most buddhists

a lot of buddhists don't even understand

what that's supposed to mean but once

again

there's no god there you can kind of

read god implicitly some buddhists have

talked to buddhists who actually think

that there is a god in buddhism of a

sort but it's

you know that concept of of pure

consciousness

is what it is

okay and if you ask them well whose

consciousness are you talking about they

will point at themselves and say my

consciousness

in a way they're you know

they kind of attribute the existence of

everything to themselves

okay now i know i've known a lot of

people in hollywood in washington dc who

do the same thing actually well that's

that's right that's why buddhism is very

fashionable among some of those people

that's a good point yeah that's a good

point so so yes uh but anyway when you

look at what they've they've all got you

come down to the same thing

all right

everybody has the dao

or the way you know that's the way

reality works

right and uh and and everybody you know

has sunyata which is pure syntax

right pure cognition with no

instantiation no content

right and then you've got what what the

abrahamic religions call god

it's all the same thing

okay but

what are its properties

okay are its properties such that you

can deny the existence of god or are its

properties such that god definitely has

to exist

and the answer is

god exists

god property is the properties of the

central substance and central principle

of reality those properties are

attributed to god including of course

you know things like you have the three

o's omniscience omnipotence and

omnipresence but then you've also got

consciousness god has to be sentient

so so we're not just we're not just

defining god out of existence sometimes

you'll hear people

say god exists and and but they'll give

god such a weak and shallow definition

that the god that they're describing has

no

uh no relation to the god that we

conceive of you're saying no this god is

god god himself is conscious and and

therefore personal

yes you can establish a personal

relationship with god

we're images of god you know what an

image is it's basically the product of a

mapping god maps himself into each human

being

right that's a very personal thing that

god is doing for us

right

and i don't understand how anybody can

say that it's any different

we reflect the structure of the universe

each one of us we're carried by it

everything we do we exist in a medium

what is that medium

right where did it come from what holds

it together what is the unifying

coherence the source of coherence of

that medium now now is your claim that

is your claim a pantheistic claim that

god is the universe or the universe is

god and that's that

or no or is god outside of the universe

and created god is greater than well

what is the universe

damned if i know you ever hear the

simulation hypothesis yes okay well the

simulation hypothesis

is basically the idea that reality we

see around is physical reality is

simulated on some sort of an automaton

or or a or a computer yeah some some

aliens somewhere have just uh they've

fooled us right right exactly

eat a piece of liquid

before one launches into the simulation

one needs a little sustenance you know

okay so anyway

the idea is that you've got some kind of

an automaton running you've got a

simulation mounting on it

and god it's more panentheistic you know

what panentheism is i do uh i think i do

but

that means that uh

we are in god

let me know how i've gone wrong we are

in god and god is in us and it is not

merely that god and the creation are one

and the same but they are

quite related is that something

approaching panentheism

a little bit because there's uh there's

the idea is that you've got

the physical universe that you see

around you but god is not confined to

the physical universe okay see there's a

an ordinary pantheist

thinks assumes that god is somehow

confined to the universe that there is

just what we see around us and god is in

every piece of it god is distributed

over it yeah

but it's uh it's a little bit more

complex than that because this part of

the universe that we see around us

cannot exist just by itself yeah

okay there are certain things that it

entails

and when you go into those entailments

that's how you get to god that's how you

get to the identity of reality okay and

now to get back to the to the reality

self-simulation at least that's what i

call it self-simulation but to get back

to the simulation hypothesis

that we're living in the display

of that simulation

in addition to the display there is also

a processing aspect

okay and god it captures both of those

things he captures both the display and

the processor

what what do you mean i hate to put it

in the end well i mean okay here's the

display you realize the display contains

states yep okay you see things the

objects contains it states are static

that's why they're called states okay

static how do they change well they have

to be processed something has to okay

yeah yeah and and in the calculus for

example those are tiny little

infinitesimal intervals okay but they

are not actually contained in the states

themselves they have a neighborhood a

little tangent space or what have you

you know where you can sort of draw

little vectors that suggest that some

kind of processing is going on but the

idea of being a state and being a

process

those are two different things

to the in the ordinary ordinary way of

looking at it okay

it turns out that you can't properly

describe reality and causation at all

unless you put those things together

somehow

and that's what it takes god to do

okay god provides the processing

functionality for your state you have an

internal state an external state you're

a material human being right like to

explain how that is changing through

time

uni and maintaining its coherence

through time even as it changes that's

what you need god for yeah i certainly

agree with that entirely and so

i i might not be sophisticated enough to

parse all of the quibbles that there

might be but broadly speaking as a

christian so much of what you're saying

resonates is obviously true for me the

idea that uh well i'm a member of the

body of christ the idea that god creates

the world in this uh great act of love

this great act of charity self-love and

and

yeah yeah well then self-love don't

forget you're an image of god right so

when loving himself god loves you and

god and and you're supposed to love god

back right and this ties into something

like the trinity right the idea that god

is three persons in one divine unity so

all of this is making a lot of sense to

me so

now how do i how do i make sense

of consciousness

well

ordinarily you know what

quantum mecha you know quantization is

you know i know the word yeah well you

decide what the the ultimate irreducible

objects are the the the

quanta in terms of which your reason it

turns out that in order to quantize

that theory that i was talking about

that theory of identity where you've got

the display and you've got the processor

and it's handling both

it turns out that in order to handle

both of those things

you need a certain kind of quantum

that quantum is called an identity

operator god is the identity so

obviously these little quanta they have

to be they're doing things they're

processing so we can call them operators

right they are identity operators

okay the identity operator has basically

it takes input from the outside world

recognizes it or accepts it using syntax

processes it and then returns it to the

world as external state

okay so things come in then they're

processed right there's throughput which

is you could call that the subjective or

internal state of the identity operator

and then it's returned to the external

universe

so what are you attributing now

so what i'm saying is that's

consciousness and i'm saying that

consciousness exists in every part of

the universe because those are the

quantum no that's what i'm asking are

you telling me that this table is

conscious

in that sense yes generically conscious

but it's relying on our consciousness to

do it we have there's there's levels of

quanta okay these are tertiary quanta

they're all put together using physical

localistic forces right

but those are under determinative they

don't fully determine what happens

why the heisenberg uncertainty principle

for example it tells you that you know

the quantum rules they're probabilistic

right they don't actually determine

events okay so what determines events

we do

we don't know how we do it but we do it

when everybody's will is put together

we're all creating the best possible

universe we can for ourselves

and god is what harmonizes all of our

different perspectives and makes things

happen for all of us at the same time

and if we were doing things correctly

this would be the best of all possible

worlds

sadly however

we oftentimes make mistakes

and that's what we have to get out of

doing but we can't get out of doing it

until we understand what reality is what

we are and what the relationship between

those two things is now you've mentioned

two things that raise a new question for

me which is you mention this idea of

simulation just the simulation or

self-simulation and you've mentioned us

doing things so then it would seem to me

we have to tackle the question

do we really do much of anything at all

in the sense do we have free will

yes we do

okay i'm glad to hear it i always

thought we did well yes we have to have

free will oh i was discussing with you

earlier the idea of a fixed array yeah

all right now modern physics no

basically what you've got is you've got

a bunch of quantum fields and

superposition and then those fields

consist of little fluctuations little

quantum fluctuations right where is the

fixed array we were talking about a

manifold right with a bunch of zero

dimensional points

okay those two things are not compatible

okay

quantum field theory and that that that

fixed array manifold where you can

parameterize all of the causal functions

using the manifold that doesn't work

okay those two things don't fit together

now now

you you explained to me when we were

speaking about this earlier you put this

into even more layman's terms and i've

somehow it has already flown out of my

head

can you can you put that into more basic

terms what you've just said

but what was it you you need to

understand about this what what are you

actually why why are these two concepts

you're describing why are they not

reconcilable

these

what is the problem with these oh i i

explained that to you already that's

what okay all right

it consists of zero dimensional points

limit points or cuts and i told you what

a dedicated cut was right

these limit points have zero extent

they're exact locations and that's a cut

you're actually

you know you've got something on one

side of the point and then you've got

something on the other side of the point

and any line that you draw through the

point itself is going to be cut by the

point yep okay so so we call that a cut

okay

okay and the uh the cut is zero

dimensional which means that it has no

extent at all it's an exact location

it's precise

no extent it's not smeared out okay if

you take all of those points and you add

them together

you get zero right now because no matter

how many times you add zero to itself

you just get zero

and because the manifold consists of

those points that's what you have to do

to find out the extent of the manifold

okay so what this is telling you is that

the manifold itself has a zero extent

there's nothing there

so the real manifold of classical

physics is a paradoxical construct

okay okay so that's why those two things

that's why

that doesn't work with quantum field

theory and the idea that things are are

you know

quantum fluctuations and fields you know

that's as a matter of fact

that particular concept of the real

manifold that doesn't work for anything

at all

it's a conceptual convenience we can

reason about reality in terms of it and

we can actually get to some very

interesting conclusions

okay

using it you're right but it doesn't

work in the long run okay and because it

doesn't work most causal functions of

course are parameterized in terms of

this manifold okay okay in other words

you take you know you've got x y and z

axes and the forces that exist the

forces that cause things to hap to

happen right those are those forces are

all directed along one of those axes

that's what a force is right okay when

you take away the points those zero

dimensional points now all of that

disappears the basis of causation has

just fled the coop on you

right okay because you no longer have

little points the tails of the little

vectors that point there you can no

longer parameterize your causal

functions

using those points and vectors so what

do you do to get causal functions

well it turns out you have to use

something called advanced causation and

you combine that with retrocausa with uh

retro cause or excuse me advanced

causation is called retro causation you

combine that with ordinary

causation

and you get something else entirely

it's called metacausation in the ctmu

so

it's referred to using two operations

one of which is called conspansion and

the other which is called sub operation

called telecrecursion because

when we're talking about free will

often the conversation especially these

days becomes this sort of shallow

discussion of well this caused this and

i'm going to describe a totally

deterministic system and so as a result

of this causing this causing this

causing this you don't have free will

and you're saying cause is actually more

complicated than just

cause

that's correct in other words talking

about free will in those terms is oshios

means nothing

you can't get anywhere with it okay

reality is actually generative okay it's

not a fixed manifold everything has been

created all the time not just our states

our states are being recreated right

you know i can cross my legs i can

uncross my leg that's that's the that's

the changing state yeah but uh but the

medium around us is changing when i look

at you i'm seeing michael knowles okay

i'm seeing you sitting there

but that means that i'm seeing your

boundary i'm seeing what distinguishes

you from the external environment right

there's a medium around you so i have to

be regenerating that as the same time as

i'm regenerating your state in my head

okay

when i say regenerating the reason i'm

doing that i could also say i'm

recognizing

michael knowles i'm recognizing your

state right now but i'm also recognizing

the state of the medium around you

because otherwise i wouldn't be able to

distinguish you from the medium and you

wouldn't exist at all right right well

it's sort of like a a little baby right

has trouble uh recognizing the limits of

things and recognizing what some

individual object might be from you know

the glass on the table they have trouble

distinguishing those precisely yeah okay

the baby has to learn to distinguish

those boundaries and it has to receive

the right visual cues at the right age

so that it can actually learn how to do

that yeah so

now now we're at metacausation so what

does

medicalization hap

what causation works from past to future

okay metacausation works from past to

future and from future to past in a

closed loop it's called a conspensive

cycle okay okay so that's basically what

we have to do to quantization in order

to make causality where no

and of course when i say causality i

mean metacausation okay so how does

because ordinary past the future

causality parameterized by a fixed array

that doesn't work

so i get i get past the future this

seems pretty simple i pick up the glass

of water i put it over here and now i

remember two seconds ago that water was

over here and then i caused it to go

over there right so how do you cause

something to go from the future to the

past

you it

you it can't go anywhere unless there's

some place for it to go yeah that's

that's all i'm saying okay this is

in the universe everything changes with

time you're actually you know

in the theory of relativity for example

all the points are events okay and that

means that there's a time parameter

involved okay

so when you take that glass and you move

it from there to there

okay

you think that there's a point right

there where you're gonna move that glass

that's false

okay the point to which you are going to

move that glass is actually in the

future

when you pick up that glass it's still

in you understand what i'm saying yes

okay that makes sense

and

and then getting back to god i guess

we're always trying to get back to god

god

is outside of time and space

distributes over time and space and

there's some left over

time and space is static it's a display

imagine that you're a little homunculus

inside a computer display like the

matrix for example okay

god not only distributes over that but

there's a whole other domain where god

exists

and that's the processing domain that's

the non-terminal domain in the ctme

we're in the terminal domain

right and most physicists when they try

to reason about the terminal domain

they reason under physical confinement

okay well i can only look at

physics and i have to use what i know

about physics what i can observe about

physics to explain everything else that

i explain so they have that kind of

explanatory closure

yep going right there so speaking of

this non-terminal domain

in a really basic question

do i'm not going to ask you if i'm going

to go to heaven or hell but will i go to

either heaven or hell

you will persist

after you die

okay where you go depends on who michael

knowles really is
i you would know that better than anyone

yeah i i hope i know that better than

but you're you're telling me i'm going

somewhere

yes

you're confident of that i don't just uh

evaporate i don't just turn into

oblivion

well you can if you displease god that's

exactly what's going to happen to you

god is going to cut you off and he's

going to say i can't see him anymore

he's going to turn away from you and

then you won't be able to reunite

salvation will be impossible for you

because salvation means that god has got

to pull you back into himself right okay

but god doesn't want to see you anymore

he doesn't even know you exist he knows

your physical body is there but he's not

interested anymore because you hate him

you deny his existence you offend him so

he's not going to look at you right so

now what happens well okay you're dead

you still want to live there's something

in you that still desperately wants to

live so it's still going to be there

what happens now

well you try to create your own world

for yourself but if you're a bad person

you're an evil person what kind of world

is that going to be it's going to be an

evil world and that's what we call

hell this is what john milton says in

the mouth of satan he says the mind is

its own place and it can make a hell of

heaven or heaven a hell no you got it

it reminds me of dante also this this

idea of god turning away at the very

deepest part of hell is satan frozen in

a lake of ice of his own making of his

own making because of the flapping of

his own wings because he's apart from

the warmth of god precisely okay

that's the way it has to work

so we've gotten through death judgment

heaven and hell free will and god

i'm not completely there's a lot more to

be said well and and we still have some

time i mean fortunately on my usual show

there is about 30 seconds to come to any

conclusion about anything and thankfully

i am not bringing chris lange into

nashville to talk for 10 minutes i this

is going to be a much longer discussion

uh

so

for this discussion

would you like a cigar

sure i haven't smoked a cigar in a long

time oh excellent you know the body is a

temple the temple needs incense

back in the day i used to enjoy a cigar

every now and then

good cigar

i'm glad you liked it this is one of my

favorite cigars that's come out you know

if you were on the joe rogan show they

would offer you something a little

stronger but uh this

we're gonna keep it to tobacco on this

show i think i think i've seen a couple

of yeah i've seen the rogan show a

couple of times he was talking about

some kind of drugs at that point in his

career i think that's all he was talking

about yeah

did you ever get into drugs i'm not

saying you know just because you were

around bars in new york but even the

drugs that everyone says expand your

mind and anything like that

well you couldn't really grow up in the

era when i grew up around the kind of

people

i was surrounded with without trying you

know some drugs i have no

i don't have a substance abusive

tendency in my body i i

i just don't have any bad habits except

for

this

licorice and candy oh man i love that

stuff

it's addictive i don't know

it is but i have to hide it for myself i

don't have any in the house right now

um

but you so you never go because i would

always have people tell me especially in

college they'd say michael you have to

drop acid you have to smoke this you

have to take mushrooms it's going to

expand your mind and i thought you know

my mind is my brain such as it is is

pretty much all i got i'm not exactly

the captain of the football team and if

some drug messes up my brain i'm sunk

that's correct but of course what they

say is that

some of these medications are

can actually be

good for you in terms of you may have

certain things

certain

mental routines

that are destructive and that aren't

good for you that can be interdicted by

psychedelics for example what's your

take on it

my take is that could very well be true

you know the psychedelics could open up

a gap between your your temporal

consciousness and your non-terminal

consciousness right your mind is a it's

an extended stratified thing you're

we're just using our terminal

consciousness right now but there are

other

aspects

to your consciousness you can actually

get you know certain kinds of insights

and communications if you just open up a

gap

you understand

let them come in and let them come in

and fill the gap and then

you know you can see them as they would

ordinarily so the things that people see

when they're on psychedelics

i usually write them off and i tell

people you know you're just uh

hallucinating

but but you're saying maybe that's not

not all it is

they might be seeing something real

well
once again what is reality

is reality just stuff out there no

reality has a mental aspect

right and once you admit that basically

everything has a mental aspect then of

course what's going on in your mind is

real it takes on a kind of reality it's

not the same as physical reality it is

nevertheless real are angels and demons

real

yes

yes i think so too

is there is there a fear that if you

take some of these drugs you might be

letting in the wrong guys that's a

problem isn't it

and that's a problem that i think a lot

of people have encountered you have to

be a certain kind of person to be able

to handle these drugs and not be sucked

under by them okay

because once your mind is you know is is

is uh is

messed with and that way

something else you know it's weakened

you know you're not exactly in control

anymore something else can come in and

grab it and if you open up that gap that

i was talking about what can come into

that gap might not be good for you

god is real angels are real demons are

real

is the devil real

oh yes

yes well it has to be

you know we were talking about michael

knowles being surrounded by the medium

and you know you've got a boundary well

god has a boundary too he's got a very

tight boundary he's a perfect he's

perfect

he can't take anything resembling

imperfection right he can't take it into

himself because that would be a

contradiction

okay so

god needs an antithesis

in order to be properly defined what is

that antithesis

anti-god or satan

so it definitely exists now satan isn't

coherent because you know he basically

hates existence nevertheless he gains

coherence through human beings through

secondary telors as they're called in

the ctmu

in other words satan can nucleate power

structures for example you know things

like corporations and governments

where you've got people in there that

can be acquired as resources and there's

a kind of skeleton you know a corporate

organization a governmental you know

organization that's holding them

together holding them in place that can

be exploited by satan so you're not

describing

manichaeism you're not saying there's

god and then the the opposite of god and

there's some maybe equivalence between

the two you're saying that

god obviously there is an antithesis

christ has an antichrist but that

it's incoherent and and in you know are

you saying that he sort of lack that the

devil sort of lacks substance or that's

why he needs the humans i'm saying the

devil likes coherence

coherence is what brings everything into

superposition

right with itself in other words

it allows something to this is going to

sound a little bit paradoxical allows

something to communicate non-locally

with itself okay right all of its

possible states are in superposition

they exist all all at once

okay

and this is this is uh

pretty much inescapable

i'm reminded of a writer renee gerard

who who

has this idea had this idea that uh

the devil being who he is is a kind of

contradiction of being

and it seems to me what gerard says is

something similar to what you're saying

which is that he requires us to kind of

do his dirty work that is correct

yeah

we give

existence to the devil to save

now you have to make a distinction

however between satan and lucifer for

example now lucifer is an angel

okay that's what he's supposed to do is

fallen angel right you know but

nevertheless an angel right the angel of

light okay the morning star whatever you

want to call them okay

that is not safe those are two different

things what's the difference this would

no doubt be classified as a heresy for

example in the

in the church i did not i did not bring

the inquisition with me yet they're not

behind the curtains here so so what is

your idea then because traditionally

it's understood that satan and lucifer

are the same person you're saying

they're different

yes

yes how are they different well

lucifer walks the fence basically he's

the angel of light what does light do

basically light is what brings reality

to us okay he's walking the fence

between good and evil we're all in the

same boat we all walk the fence between

good and evil okay how can we do that

okay

well through lucifer and the grace of

god

through lucifer basically lucifer has

been exiled here because god can't take

won't tolerate the imperfections of this

place okay he has

lucifer handle that for him and that's

why lucifer is

is what he is that's how he fell down

here to earth okay he's performing a

function here that function is light

i mean i don't know do you follow what

i'm i i do i'm still trying to parse the

difference a little if christ says i saw

satan fall like lightning from heaven

is he describing satan here or he's

describing lucifer
or both

if christ were here and i could hear his

exact words i could perfectly interpret

them right okay yeah yeah but it's very

hard to do that you know 2 000 years

after the fact right with all the

different translations and

interpretations that the bible has

undergone okay and what i like to do is

i like to approach it from first

principles and look at it logically

right rationally and what does logic

tell us if anything okay well logic

tells us that basically god needs a

negation but that negation is too

incoherent to function in this world

except through

human beings right what's the rest of it

what's the rest of it all about yeah and

this is lucifer is a concept that is

better suited

than satan to that purpose i i love this

point

that uh

he's incoherent that the old devil is

incoherent that i read some poem i think

it's a modern poem that says you know

sin is a big is a big problem because

it's evil but it's also a big problem

because it's such a waste of time it's

such a way it's so incoherent when you

think of people when you actually when

you take the suffering out of it and you

just think of people committing any

particular sin

it just doesn't make any sense does it

or you think so the sense that it makes

to them is they're enjoying it

they're hedonistic deriving pleasure

from from the sin and of course we all

you know have the same pleasure

mechanisms so we're all tempted to

commit sin but we've got to keep a lid

on it there have to be limits okay and

what i'm worried about is that now satan

controls the world and there are certain

people involved in running things who

don't have those limits well they're so

rich they're so you know powerful that

they don't need those limits anymore so

they're more or less thrown them off

now there's nothing new to the idea that

uh satan or or lucifer or let's call him

just the old uh the old devil himself

can is the prince of this world and that

the rich and the powerful

just

they do his bidding and they're bad

people and they follow their lowest

appetites and their pleasures and they

they can be sadistic and so that's been

going on for a long time is there

something particular about the moment

we're living in that says it's actually

gotten much worse

yes

that is they've actually

we've had such a

so many technological advancements that

now the the technology of of

surveillance and coercion are such and

these people are so rich

you know they're like black holes

gravitating all the money to themselves

that they're

they're unstoppable okay and because

they're unstoppable because they they

actually run everything

okay we are endangered by them now

it sounds to me like you're saying we

don't live in uh schoolhouse rock i'm a

bill up on capitol hill we're not living

in the republic that a lot of us

say that we're living in

that's correct we're ruled basically

the world is globalistic now

it's run by globalists that's that's

what that's their goal i mean that's

what global means we're going global

you know

it's oligarchic

and it would therefore be oligarchic

that's absolutely correct oligarchic

because very few of them actually exist

and this is beyond uh

you know

a u.s senator this is beyond the

structure there's no

those are puppets

you know i i it's it's fairly common

knowledge now i suppose that i regard

uh most politicians as being one step

removed from prostitutes

that's been true foreign

know a few exceptions but let me tell

you they're they're on the run yeah

okay

so it's uh it's a very serious situation

right and if you take a look at these

globalists the ones that have thrown off

all the limits and they're fantastically

rich and powerful now and you take a

look at what they actually have upstairs

i'm afraid it's not very impressive

right

okay i mean if you really look at their

intellectual production soros might be

the best of them he's at least got a

theory of economics you know it's flawed

but you know he at least has that the

rest of them are just a bunch of civil

rights what about uh

i guess even outside of

banking or finance per se what about

someone like

bill gates that guy's everywhere he

seems to be i don't know why is he an

expert on health care i don't know but

my television tells me that he is why is

he

so someone like that but is he a he's a

smart guy he's got to be right he oh

he's not stupid bill gates is uh he's

got a respectable intellect but there's

something

misfiring

there

okay bill is very concerned with uh with

overpopulation and we do have an

overpopulation problem so then this

brings me to i asked friends of mine i

said

speaking to chris langan send in your

questions and

most of the questions were about

metaphysics and god and the ctmu and all

of your thoughts on all those things but

one friend of mine he said you know

i want you to ask him about bitcoin i

want you to ask him about money and if

they're basically if there's any way to

bring break uh the government or super

government control of money what do you

think of if i want to start my own my

own currency i guess i could i'd call it

michael coin

is there is there any

is this one way to push back against an

increasingly technocratic global form of

government

yes there is but it has to start at the

local level you're not going to print

your own cur world currency to compete

head-to-head with these you've got to go

you know basically attend a few city

council meetings you've got to go in

there you know

say your piece say we've got a problem

you know

basically the world is run by globalism

this is america you know we should have

our right of self-determination here but

that's being taken away from us see who

uh you know agrees with you about it you

know i mean somebody will probably come

up to you after your speech and say you

know i agree with you a hundred percent

you then you start you find out who

those people are you get together and

you start putting pressure on your local

politicians are you saying the situation

is so bad

politically that uh actually

you know people will call you a radical

and an extremist and a terrorist for

something like this but are you saying

basically jefferson we need we need to

go fight another revolution or something

or is there

i i would just assume

see this whole thing resolved

non-violently of course i want you know

i want peace on earth i want

everybody to feel as though we're we're

in fellowship with each other the

brotherhood of man you know what i'm

talking about

that is the right way to do it when

when you or i or or donald trump for

that matter you use the word globalism

what the liberal establishment says is

oh that's either they'll say globalism

is good and we should have more of it or

they'll say that's a crazy conspiracy

theory there's no such thing as

globalism
what

i could i could point to a lot of

international organizations that

increasingly try to take power away from

national government what are

intelligence agencies what are trade

secrets what's what's intellectual

property they're off property they're

all conspiracies right okay people

trying to get ahead by lying by a

mission or relying directly to other

people

the competition right

that's what it is you can't get away

from conspiracy it's how the world works

as a matter of fact it's game

theoretically rational so you're saying

not conspiracy theory you're saying just

flat out conspiracy that's what makes

the world go around i'm afraid you know

and oh but of course

you know the the elite themselves

realize this

they know that that's how the world

works they just want to distract you

well that's that's such a such a great

way to put it where you say a trade

secret or or just just a group of people

come together they say i've got this

good idea for a company and we're going

to come together and do that and we're

not going to let the competition know

about it we're going to start this and

we're going to hopefully it'll be

successful and we'll make some money and

that is a

young foreign leaders i mean

everybody's a young global leader right

i mean trudeau macron merkel

putin

you know for the putin deals you that

very much surprised me but klaus schwab

is on record he's on video in fact

you know claiming that vlad putin is one

of his young global leaders

trained in globalism you know it's funny

you mentioned that the young the young

wing of the world economic forum when i

was a freshman in college

you get all of these opportunities for

uh

internships and fellowships and you get

a grant you try to get a grant you see

apply to these things i don't know

anything i don't know anything about any

of these groups and so i said i'm a

politically minded young man very

conservative so it made me very

different than my classmates right and

one of the opportunities that came

across was the world economic forum

global change makers

were invited to be a part of this no i

applied i what did i actually apply i

applied and i said i said they said wait

a minute well i didn't know what it was

so i said what's the experience i said

well i'm very involved in this

conservative group and this right-wing

group and this good way to get ahead i

got to give you that well but i'll tell

you i i thought i had a good resume it

wasn't like my classmates which was a

lip they had all their liberal groups so

i said i'm a conservative so but you

probably want some conservatives here

right and i

so i apply and you know you're going to

be shocked to hear this chris i didn't

hear back

i'm absolutely flabbergasted and my

liberal classmates who i felt had a

weaker application but they were all

part of the liberal groups yes they did

get it

i guess it makes sense now that i know

what the world is socialism i mean what

is communism right these things were

actually funded they're more or less

invented by the central bank you know

who funded

you know originally was paying marks and

engels and before that moses has and

other people to come up with you know

it's a strategy for world domination it

has been for the last 200 years what has

changed so

so when someone like trump comes along

and he says i'm not going to fight this

political battle along exactly left

right lines or republican democrat but

i'm saying i'm going to stand for the

american nation and and nationalism

generally against globalism

but he managed to get through he did get

elected yes he did

were you a trump supporter

you don't need to say if you don't as a

matter of fact back when people were

saying trump can't read look look at the

way he hesitates you know he can't he's

got trouble with the teleprompter the

guy can't read i actually stood up and i

said no i said i've met donald trump and

i think his iq is probably equal to that

of the average harvard professor really

yeah oh yeah

i i actually stood up for course i never

got anything out of it but you know i

thought i was doing you know you just

said it because telling people that you

know basically he is company he's a good

businessman you know and therefore could

be good for the country and i wanted

people to understand that so how did

this guy and i i've asked this i've

asked this to my friends and i said

how did this guy who i think was

basically on the level and really did

at least try to pose a

a stopping block to the

globalism program how did he ever get

elected

how'd they let him through

well he was a little bit of a wild card

trump is not as easily controlled as

some of them are so he stood up there

and he spoke his mind he's got good

instincts in that respect because what

he said

resonates with what is in the minds of a

lot of american citizens we want to have

our own country we want america to have

first we don't want our borders to be

open we don't want millions of third

world migrants coming here every year

and displacing us from our own territory

i mean and trump actually did a good job

of enunciating that that's how he got

elected okay and the first time around

you know they weren't prepared yep you

know so they couldn't do anything about

it the second time around

are you suggesting chris that there were

some questions about the 2020

presidential election

anyone who doesn't understand that that

election was

shall we say not quite up to snuff is

some kind of

i because i was told by all the fact

checkers and all those social media

sensors that if i raised any question i

said you know it seems like they kind of

violated the law in pennsylvania and it

seems like actually they kind of

extended the voting periods

they said that's that's crazy you're a

conspiracy theorist how dare you

well that's exactly what they do you see

you've

violated group think so you're out

your opinion means nothing

would how would you describe your

politics populist conservative i was

always pretty much of an independent

when i was a kid i was basically a

democrat working you know i mean my

family was democratic you know it was uh

i think my stepfather was a you ever

hear the wobblies yeah he was an

organizer for the wobblies out of out of

uh chicago

okay and so always i was raised around

this liberal attitude so yeah we were we

were democrats and i thought okay yeah

the working man the people that actually

the people that actually hold this

country together that keep everything

moving you know those are the ones that

we should really care about and and you

know if we if we're not careful the rich

will walk all over them so they need you

know somebody to

to to to defend them and to take care of

them

and you know i'm one of those people i

wasn't rich you know we didn't my family

had no money at all yeah so naturally i

gravitated to that then the democratic

party changed

okay no longer was it about the working

man suddenly it was full of like these

billionaire techies that have never done

an honest day's labor in their entire

miserable lives

okay and i realize wait a minute things

have changed here yeah

there is no more democratic party of the

kind that that i used to know about okay

that i used to belong to

and that's when i became a conservative

and a conservative in a stronger sense

than most people who call themselves

conservatives today because they're

really just cuckolded by the liberals no

they're afraid they're afraid to say boo

to them i mean look

well you know what's funny now i i was

told some years ago

this was probably 2016 2017 someone said

michael you you can't use the word

cuckold as an insult because that's

uh racist or sex so right and i said

look i'm of italian extraction cuckold

is the oldest

insult in the italian culture that you

know even the sicilians have a gesture

for them

and it's the rock star gesture i think

uh i forget the name of the rock star

also sicilian who popularized it and

very famous i can't believe his name

escapes me but that that's not it's the

that's the symbol of the cuckold i said

there's nothing wrong about you it's a

very funny insult and it's descriptive

apparently some married

apparently there are married couples

that actually that's their hobby

right i can't see it myself but not my

thing

right but and and it's it's obviously

it's disordered nobody wants you know i

don't think rationally anyone would say

that's a good way to uh live your life

and what you're saying is that there are

people who call themselves conservatives

and really they're just squish

cuckolded or they just give in it's a

figure of speech yeah we're not accusing

them of literal cockroaches no they

might be i don't know i don't know in

the bedroom but basically they are

letting the other party wear the pants

yeah and they're putting on their little

panties yeah and doing whatever they're

told that's what i'm saying yeah that's

what kind of that's that's the modern

rhino the modern republican you know i

mean that's what most of them are

and believe you me most of them wouldn't

do a damn thing for anybody else right

they're basically into their own thing

their own self-interest and they just

never take any risks on behalf of the

american people anymore

and that offends me

because we're paying them and they've

promised to represent our interests and

they're not doing it well you look at

really

basic issues

something like immigration well and

trump really won on the immigration

issue something like immigration

this is no insult to anyone around the

world who wants to come to the united

states

it's frankly it's not even an insult to

the illegal aliens who are pouring

across the border but i think

anyone can agree taking in one million

legal immigrants and two million illegal

immigrants annually it's gonna be more

than that this year probably on top of

that three million people per year

taking them in

or whose houses are they living in

here see them living in anybody anybody

from washington dc's house no it's not

martha's vineyard

southampton you don't see too many of

them there no

but it's a but it's a political strategy

that is opposed if you look at public

opinion polls

the vast majority of americans including

lots and lots of democrats want to

drastically reduce

this this immigration issue and yet

doesn't matter which party gets elected

the border remains open the west

especially after uh

the especially after world war ii you've

got the this huge boom in the west

you've got the second half of the 20th

century now we're into the 21st century

that's where all the money is that's

where all the opportunity is and so just

naturally people want to flood in there

and if you've got relatively lacks

immigration policies well we used to

have

in order to get into this country you

used to have to prove that you were of

value that you could offer it something

it wasn't just about us giving to you if

you were an immigrant you wanted to come

here you had to show that you had

something to offer yourself

okay you had to you know learn english

you had to go through ellis island or

wherever you had to learn english you

had to learn about the constitution you

had to buy into our

to our politics but now it seems you're

incentivized to to hate america

to hate western civilization that's

right and now who would be doing that

any real american not that i know of

okay it's just it's a contradiction in

terms so but so what's the end game here

i mean if

if america is world domination

they're going global

that's what it's all about so

if if we've got this oligarchic group

this self-appointed oligarchic group

that i in my naivete in uh freshman year

of college i say oh the world economic

forum or what forget even wef there are

other international organizations the

united nations obviously uh the european

union which the the brits have pulled

themselves out of

but there are there are these groups

throughout the west that want to erase

national borders essentially that's

correct um and they want to deracinate

everybody that lives inside and yes the

race culture i say this as the

relatively moca skinned southern italian

here uh but there is a

there is a sense that no there is no um

we don't want to even even just look at

europe we don't want there to be french

culture and german culture and british

culture i know what a tragedy that is

look at those cultures they're beautiful

all the most beautiful cultures in the

world and the french and the french on

top of all those beautiful cultures too

yeah right

you know what the brits always say right

france is much too good for the france

[Applause]

that's a good way to put it so so then

what do what is your thought moving

forward we're in this very bad political

spot right now would seem to me we've

been in bad spots before uh tower of

babel didn't seem particularly pleasant

the solution to that didn't seem

particularly uh pleasant to listen to

talker yeah

yes

so so

what happens now do we just need to

field a good candidate you know or no

this is so far going political system is

kind of shot

okay so i'm afraid it's going to take

some activism we're going to have to

look i don't want anything violent to

happen i don't want a new revolution but

i will tell you this that if people

don't act as though they are willing

to fight for their own rights they're

going to lose those rights

founding fathers knew it you know it's

written right into the constitution

okay if we don't fight for our rights

we're going to lose them

simple as that you mentioned uh everyone

getting stuck with the fouchyauchi for

the last two years and you know it's so

so extremely effective that we all need

to take 55

just to uh marvel at the perfection and

efficacy of it

are you uh are you anti-vaccine

generally i take it you're anti covin

well i bought into the covert thing at

first and you know i went out and bought

you know

gina and i bought you know gas masks for

us and you know those n100 masks and uh

you know and i advise people what to do

so it's not to get infected with the the

deadly cove and then i noticed that that

you know

it wasn't really killing you i live in

northern missouri nobody up there was

wearing masks nobody up there i mean

and nobody was dying of covet 19. so i

realized there's got to be something a

little bit off about this right

and so i you know kind of like started

getting away from it and then i noticed

that you know this

well then i noticed that it was being

used as a pretext for something called

the great reset

and again i mean to bring back the world

economic forum

this is a page on the wef website is

something it's the great the great reset

of the global economies and the global

political order

that they're very open about it okay

and there have been you know white

papers written in the past about using

just this methodology to get

you know to get uh

everybody behind the globalist agenda

right operation you know warp speed was

part of that you know

and so then it then does trump bear some

responsibility for

heavenly bear's responsibility my

question is does he really know what's

going on or has he or surrounded himself

with people that are misleading him

about what's going on

i would like to believe that donald

trump has been misled but if he knows

how much damage those so-called vaccines

have actually caused and he's still

pushing them then we have a problem you

know if if you raise any questions about

even the covid vaccines which which

don't do at the very least they don't do

what

biden and fauci and wallensky told us

they would do namely to stop you from

contracting the virus or spreading it to

at the very least it doesn't do that uh

you're called a a crazy anti-vaxxer

and that's called cognitive dissonance

right i mean you know who's crazy you

know if you can look at the reality of

what is happening and you can deny it

and call anyone who who believes in it a

conspiracy theorist what kind of person

are you

well you're obviously a nut job a kook a

or something like that right

that's what all these people are

as i say conspiracy makes the world go

round okay

now
beyond uh finance or beyond these ngos

you mentioned the intelligence agencies

something that occurs to me is if i were

working at an intelligence agency they

never invited me never got never got

that uh invite unzip recruiter

perhaps you should consider yourself

lucky

i i think i do i certainly do

uh but if i were at an intelligence

agency and i've heard there was a guy

with the highest iq ever recorded who

was contradicting the liberal

establishment agenda i'd probably have a

file on that guy

have you uh

have you had any run-ins with the

some interest has been shown it was a

bleak they're very uh you know

let's just put it this way i managed to

you know meet you know a couple three

people that are involved in that line of

work when there was no actual reason

that that should have happened

in other words

but they're very cagey about it if they

want to recruit you they'll probably do

it obliquely if you don't apply to

actually join an intelligence service

but they're interested in you they will

try to get you involved with someone who

they control and then he will then

vector you around and and put you in

touch with the right people but you've

got to accept the agenda sight unseen

before that happens

right you've more or less got to let

them know that okay no matter what

they're actually planning to do i'm

going to go along with it because i

really really want to be in the cia or

the defense intelligence agency the nsa

or whatever right no such agency

[Laughter]

i like that

yeah but you have to somehow display

some sort of willingness

before you will be directly approached

by them

okay and i guess i never displayed that

kind of willingness so i'm not in yeah

i'm not there i'm not in the

intelligence community

i am you know periodically in touch with

people who are in the intelligence

community uh you know in various email

distributions and things like that but

that's it

since we're already in it they're gonna

there there are going to be people out

there who say this guy is talking about

every conspiracy theory i ever heard in

the whole book since we're already in it

let to take a slightly different tack

but still within the realm of what

wikipedia is going to call it conspiracy

theories

do you believe in aliens

well i will say this the intelligence

community large sectors of it believe in

aliens really yes

oh absolutely it's a big i mean they're

constantly discussing these things

yes and if you look at the global elite

you know and you wonder well i don't

want to blame the world banksters for

this you know that's you know that's a

conspiracy theory

then who is pulling all those strings

okay

could there be another kind of entity

you know

um

aliens demons whatever could there be

something that's pulling their strings

that that the global banksters know

about right and they're taking orders

from but they're being totally concealed

and hidden from the public this is a

viable hypothesis and it's one that the

intelligence communities don't reject

it's it's funny you post which is you

know kind of neither here nor there

because the intelligence communities

themselves could be run by aliens for

all we know

people are going to be laughing when you

say that that there are aliens that that

let them laugh okay but they can't they

won't be able to come up with any any

supporting argument against what i'm

saying it just they don't know enough

well it's ignorant it's funny that you

mention angels and demons or pardon

aliens and demons in the same breath

because i don't particularly believe in

aliens i mean what do i know i don't

there are a lot of things i don't know

about but i certainly believe that

demons exist because i'm pretty

confident that demons exist i'm i'm less

confident that aliens exist well but the

thing is a lot of people are reporting

that they're seeing these ufos the other

strange

alien suggestive phenomena so what what

is something like they call it the tic

tac of these weird ufos that seem to

violate the laws of physics correct

basically they look like you know little

you know blobs of light or spheres that

can commit these these these uh

maneuvers that are totally against the

laws of physics as we understand them

right they look like they have mass but

somehow they're not subject to inertia

they can turn on a dime on a right angle

and and continue at the same speed they

can accelerate at you know a tremendous

uh

with tremendous g forces okay how does

that how can that happen do you have any

theory

well

yes i do

but it's an involved you know it's

fairly involved basically when you

reduce the world to telesis you

understand that the reality consists of

a merging of mind and matter it's it's

an interplay you know of the two it's

not it's not just stuff and it's not

just pure abstract it's re it's rea

it can be real without necessarily being

a completely physical phenomenon okay in

other words there can be a mental

component to it

right
and that is what i think is is happening

here i think that we've got actually

there's something to it the number of

people that report ufo incidents is

simply too large people aren't you know

they're not all liars they don't run

around risking their reputations by

saying okay i'm going to make a nut out

of myself and say you know these ufos

exist but couldn't they just be nuts

well i suppose they could but it's

you're saying

i'm saying it's very improbable that

they are i mean because not that many

people are that nutty well you know my

friend andrew clavin who you met who you

met earlier he he has this party trick

which is he's a mystery writer and uh he

has written ghost stories and things and

at dinner parties he'll say hey just

i'll ask random person he'll say hey

have you ever seen a ghost

he says a lot of the time people will

say yes and throughout history people

report having seen a ghost that is

correct and he says you know too many

people are saying they've seen a ghost

for their not to be ghosts or something

like a ghost that's correct that's

absolutely correct have you ever seen a

ghost

i've seen things that look like ghosts

yeah

i have

i've seen things that look like ufos too

they're there i mean if you're not a

very observant person you'll never see

anything like that if your mind is

completely closed you just screen all

that stuff out you'll never see anything

like that but if you're an open-minded

person and you're observant you will see

things like that eventually

okay

i don't want to put you on the spot to

give an example because sometimes if i

describe an experience that i would call

religious or numinous sometimes people

say well describe it and say it's you

know it's i can go around the edges but

it's somewhat ineffable could you could

you describe such an experience

well

yes i could describe such an experiment

okay well

on the ufo thing i was working for the

forest service

in near lewiston montana

um in the lewis and clark national

forest

uh not too far from malmstrom air force

base and i was in charge of a mountain

range called the little snowys okay okay

i was the the fire guard the regional

fire guard for that area and i was alone

up there there were campgrounds and i'd

you know go up and tend to the

campgrounds

and uh you know make sure they were all

cleaned up and everything and it was one

of my duties and you know i had to be a

fire guard which means putting out

forests spotting and putting out forest

fires

and things like that one day i was up

there in a forest service pickup truck

at a certain campground and i was there

and suddenly i look up and i

i say suddenly it was just in the scans

i became aware that it was up there and

i looked up this is huge

spheroidal you know but elliptical not

not a perfect spheroid like a saucer

that was turned partially on its side

okay and i thought well

that must be one of those you know

lenticular clouds that i've heard of you

know so i looked at it and i figured

okay now i wonder how this evolves in

time

totally changeless

i actually took sticks and i tried to

use parallax to figure out you know what

is this thing why isn't it changing why

isn't it moving why is it completely

featureless and metallic looking

well it wasn't any lenticular cloud okay

and i literally stared at it for a long

long time before i finally just got okay

it's there got back in my pickup and

drove away

did you did you call it in or anything

well i've told a number of people about

it

yeah i didn't call it in no

it was irrelevant to the state of my

campgrounds

you know

it's funny you mentioned because

sometimes people say this is a little

different than seeing a ufo but somewhat

related people

will say you know

i don't believe in god i don't believe

in christianity because i don't believe

in miracles if miracles really happened

we'd all know about it

and
one if you look at the gospel accounts

of miracles happening the

the wildest part of it is not the

miracle happening it's the fact that

when the miracle happens everyone treats

it as this miraculous event and then

five seconds later they move on and

people treat it as totally ordinary and

this happens again and again and again

it's even happened i would say that i've

experienced things that are

miraculous yes and even in my own life

not one week later i'm just going about

my business as though it never happened

or or i'll forget that it happened or

anything

a miracle shouldn't that but you don't

deny that they happened no right no i

don't important thing

because then you know you're really nuts

when you when you deny that it happened

right right because you're so beholden

to some preconceived notion of the way

that's correct

so who are the real nuts obviously

they're the people that are doing all

the talk about the alien conspiracy

theories

okay there's obviously something there

or the number of people that report them

wouldn't be reporting them

there are people in the cia who actually

claim to have been abducted i'm not

going to tell you who they are but

they're there

okay and we're not talking about small

individuals we're not talking about

low-ranking individuals we're talking

about high-ranking individuals these

people not just that you've read a book

about it you're saying these people

you've talked to

or people that i was people that

there was one of them in particular that

that i was actually

they were

somebody that i knew was trying to

arrange

an introduction to this person

and i said well you know he's okay so

he's in the you know cia um

is he going to tell me the truth you

know i'm not in the cia is he going to

tell me the truth about anything

well no actually what he wants to talk

about is abductions because

you know he and his wife were actually

abducted by aliens and he wants to talk

to you about
and i said well is he going to tell me

the truth about anything

well i don't know i said then i don't

want to talk to him

okay i don't want to talk to him at all

there has to be some kind of

understanding that i'm not going to get

lied to otherwise i'm wasting my time

because i'll never know whether he's

lying or telling the truth so if

somebody isn't going to commit up front

to telling me the truth yeah i don't

have time for him

if he were a really smart liar he would

have just said i will tell you the truth

and lied even if you wanted to

i suppose so

so that's what they do in the cia yeah

right i mean it's sort of the job right

if you're a spy that's that's correct

and you lie your ass off yeah at every

available opportunity about everything

right right okay they don't all do that

i think there are a couple of people

that i sort of trust when they talk

about certain subjects

but you know by no means are they

entirely in the know even i mean if

you're in the cia you're basically a

bureaucrat right you know right you look

up you know you see okay well we you

know i've got my superior and then i'm

looking up farther now i see the

director of the cia

who's giving that guy us orders

it ain't the president

[Laughter]

you know i mean that's that's that

suddenly you're in a void who's running

things

okay most as far as most of these guys

are concerned it could be the devil

himself

that's running things they just don't

know you know it's so

amazing that you say that because it it

it takes it full circle to the point

that

when i hear okay this so-and-so is

actually really beholden to so-and-so

and this person is actually beholden to

this person and i i know that that's a

fact because you can just see it in

politics you can actually you can kind

of go to an org chart and kind of point

to it right and but then eventually say

in so and so if in a really powerful

position they're actually responsible to

so and so and accountable and you think

okay at a certain point you think i

don't know i have no way of verifying

this this could be it but and then when

you go all the way back to and so and so

is really just answering to the devil

now you've got me again because because

i read that in my bible i know that

that's true i know that the you know

he's the prince of this world well yeah

yes and they've been by the way i mean

there are accounts from biblical times

and pre-biblical times that involve ufos

things in the sky that show up during

critical battles for example and turn

the tide

right this goes all the way back you

know to the

the vedic religion you know the

pre-hindu

religion there are all kinds of people

who have reported these things they end

up in various religious scriptures

including

christian scriptures as well

in some cases

so that

i can't think of an example of an

extraterrestrial appearance well no

they're basically attributed to god

these are the interventions of angels or

something okay yeah okay you know you

even you can go back you know you look

at the mayans and the incas and people

like that they're also you know they're

they're pictures on on uh on temple

walls

rather they're carvings that seem to

suggest that these things actually

existed

well you know it it's it reminds me or

at least we're perceived right no

there's a great meme that i'm really

taking with it actually has to do with

iq which is a nice coincidence but it's

i love this meme because it's got the

really stupid guy at the one end of the

bell curve and he's sort of drooling and

he says duh all the bad stuff is because

of the devil right and then you get up

on the bell curve into i don't know say

iq of 120 or 130. and it's the really

smart guy the egghead with the glasses

and he says

that's just the start of the danger zone

the danger zone it's very interesting

when you're just smart enough but not

smart and those guys they say no

actually the devil doesn't exist and

actually we're all just sort of bags of

chemicals and no this is all it's all

rationally explainable and blah blah

blah blah and then you get up to the guy

at the really high end of the iq curve

in this meme and he says no actually the

bad stuff's just from the devil i mean

he agrees with the guy at the other end

of the

but

it strikes me that there's really

something to that roger scrutin the late

conservative philosopher he said that

the job of the conservative intellectual

is to articulate things that the common

man knows intuitively

that's right

and it's especially interesting when it

comes to you

because

you're a guy at the very highest end of

the intelligence spectrum

and you've lived the life of a

blue-collar guy

that's right i wanted meaning in my life

you know it's like i say i wanted

meaning above all things

you got to make sure

you know

that you decide up front when you're a

young man if you want to accomplish

anything

who do you serve

truth or mammon

okay you don't have a choice there's a

you do have a choice but you can't do

both at once

[Music]

okay it's either going to be truth which

is the same as god i mean truth and god

are to some extent synonymous yeah or is

it good to try and beautiful it's going

to be money and if you choose money if

you choose mammon then you're going to

be serving mammon who happens to be

the uh

globalists at this point because they

control all the wealth and power so you

so you mention

i think we totally agree marxism is a

very terrible ideology that's caused a

lot of suffering in the world

would you you would agree with not

wasting this cigar absolutely not no i

wasn't take your time please but so we

would agree with that we were pretty

anti-marxist yes

i'm very anti it's a terrible philosophy

yes i mean it's just full of holes as

you can imagine

even though all the geniuses at uh

princeton or whatever you know there's

all these marxists

that's a closed that's a club you know

if you don't have the key to the

clubhouse you're not getting in okay

they won't even talk to you

no academic will take me on will

actually start arguing even in his own

field at this point because they know

they're going to lose and they will

any academic any time

but now i yes i mean i'm i'm as uh anti

higher education cartel as as there can

be right that's the

indoctrination bills you have to look at

the entire educational system as being

one great big indoctrination factory

yeah and the people that work in it

those faculty members they're chosen

they're selected

as indoctrinators but the youth

yes and they peddle marxism but but what

i like what you just said i mean you

boiled it down even more simply you know

a lot of politics comes down to you know

well you're a socialist i'm anti-say

well yeah i'm very anti-socialist and

well you're a capitalist or this or that

but you seem to be raising some problems

with capitalism too man cannot serve two

masters well that's your kind of

capitalism one of them is uh let's say

fair capitalism then you're you're

supporting your family you're trying to

get ahead you're trying to enjoy a good

and comfortable life but you're not

forgetting about god while you do it

then you've got monopoly capitalism and

this is what libertarians and other

people sometimes forget that let's say

fair capitalism because money gravitates

it's like a black hole takes money to

make money right you got to have a bunch

once you have a bunch of it it comes

more and more easily to you

yeah i think you've got a butane i know

let me see if i can will there we go hey

how about that

not quite miraculous but good

so monopoly capitalism

is the sort of thing we call crony

capitalism crooked capitalism but it's

basically you're not just controlling

the supply side you're controlling the

markets

okay

you're told what you can buy we've

decided that everybody should be using

electric cars we're not going to sell

the other kind anymore right okay that's

monopoly capitalism because if you

control the manufacturing the industry

right if you're if you're a trade

organization or a trade association and

you control that industry you can

literally control the market

you can only buy what you have the

opportunity to buy what they're giving

you the opportunity to buy in

these days they're only giving you what

they want you to have

those are the only choices you have as a

consumer they're doing this with light

bulbs too and it drives me nuts they

tried to do it 10 years ago they they

are trying to ban incandescent light

bulbs which i find to be much more

beautiful than those ugly uh led or any

of the other light bulbs i i just in my

home i just find it warmer and more

beautiful to have and they they are

trying to outlaw well my wife agrees

with you really well we have you know

those old style incandescent bulbs in

the in the bedroom for example yeah i

even i think of my christmas tree i

don't want those little leds they're

harsh they're

ugly they're blue i want the

i want the warmer light and yet

but they do make leds by the way in

almost all frequencies these days really

you can get daylight leds okay that's

costly though i mean they're way more

expensive than an incandescent bulb

so

this this actually raises

even a different question here we've

talked about truth

we've talked about goodness

there's one more transcendental

beauty

correct where does where does beauty

factor into your thoughts about

everything

well

no here we get you know into

the ctmu there is

we all know about the monetary economy

right

you get money you buy things you know

you increase your wealth

the economy is actually telec

it's a vast favor bank

i do for you you do for me this is

actually the trading system that exists

in nature can you define the word telic

yes tel telesis it means it's a

fundamental it's the monarch substance

of which everything else is composed

okay okay another one i think some

people a physicist says well that's

energy energy is the basic substance of

which everything is mass energy right

i'm saying no you've got to go up a step

you need something more general with

other properties that for instance

accommodate information okay you need

something more general than energy to

explain that or if you want to you can

play a little semantic game and then

expand gradually expand the definition

of energy so that it takes everything in

right but i call that i call the

ultimate extension of that telesis okay

basically it's a fundamental form of

intentionality

and if you want to talk about the

intentionality of god then you're

talking about a dirty word in academia

and what is that

teleology

okay the will of god right yeah

things have a purpose that's correct yes

and so you're saying that there is this

telic aspect to the economy too

we're not just that is fundamentally the

only aspect okay money is an abstraction

of that so it's a very specified

controllable physically commoditized

version of telesis

okay and

you have a certain you know group a

certain crowd that has established a

monopoly on that now when you establish

a monopoly on money

you're actually monopolizing the teleco

economy as well

how

people invest their telesis in what can

make them money

okay

unless you're like me and you prefer

meaning in your life yeah okay

truth

all right that's what tells us is it it

encompasses not just money but truth and

meaning that uh the way that

money and the monetary economy is

manipulated

we'll uh

take into it

many more aspects of life that uh and

and maybe steer them the wrong way let

me i'll try to bring it to earth at

least in the way i was thinking about it

which is i hate i hate

modern buildings i hate them they're so

ugly drab and soviet stuff they are and

they bring me down and i i walk into

grand central a nice old building in new

york and i feel like a king and i feel

dignified and i feel like a full human

being and then i walk into that they've

actually recently tried to make it

better but imagine how you felt in the

notre dame cathedral before they burned

it down which i never got to see never

never got to go in me neither so

what is that experience like i i wonder

for someone who's just

got just this

perhaps quirk of birth where you just

have this extraordinarily high iq

is it

what is the experience of life is it is

it is it kind of funny and amusing or is

it extremely annoying somebody you know

got a little uh charge out of it got a

little amusement out of it because i

sure as hell didn't

most of the time

you know but i don't complain this is

god's world god gave me my lot

knew that i was going to go after

meaning instead of money and everything

that came after was more or less like

clockwork if you had it if you had any

say in the matter which you don't but in

which you certainly did not

would you choose to be

born very intelligent or

of middling intelligence or of low

intelligence

what do you think the answer is

i wouldn't trade my mind for anyone

else's

nobody

okay simply because i know i understand

what the difference is now

you lose your if you don't if you're not

intelligent you don't cultivate your

intelligence and make the most of it

eventually you lose sight of truth

entirely and that's what has happened to

most of these people they're adapting

you know okay we've got a narrative i'm

not going to get ahead in life unless i

accept the narrative so they accept the

narrative

it's called adaptation

okay it's artificial it's not like

natural selection you know where nature

selects you okay it's you're being

selected now by a bunch of ideologues

a bunch of people who who have who want

you to adopt a certain way of looking at

things because they have all the money

and power and they want to keep it

forever

right that's why the christian church

has fallen so so radically out of favor

with most of these people even among

certain christians

high-ranking christians yep all right it

shows up in everything they say and i

don't want to mention any particular

pope

on the other hand you're referring to a

certain uh mr francis

president vicker of christ well he he's

certainly it's he says these things that

are so puzzling and potentially uh

heretical and certain cardinals have

raised

dubia have raised doubts and said could

you please answer this it sounds like

you've said something heretical and the

answer is always well you see the papa

was a misunderstood he was a

misinterpreted in the republican news

paper and you say well you know if he

keeps being misreported and

misinterpreted
why does he keep giving the interviews

to these atheist and far leftist

journalists i don't know it's not not

mine to answer i guess exactly

and i mean this is

this is

something that i think

needs to be addressed by the catholic

church itself if it wants to stop

shedding christians right and left you

see because the you know people are not

stupid i mean

some of them can convince themselves of

things that aren't true yeah but

basically human beings are intelligent

you know and you're cheating your

intelligence when you subscribe to these

narratives

and apparently the pope you know

who communicates directly with god

he buys into these narratives and that's

a contradiction in terms

you know it it's funny you you mention

papa francesca because he's come after

the latin mass and a lot of young he

claims to have been a bouncer at one

point in his life i read that somewhere

he he doesn't

you know you look like you could be a

bouncer papa francesco does not look

like he was about i don't know do you

buy it

maybe in a really light duty nightclub

he might have made it you know what i'm

saying

certainly not in most of the ones that i

worked in

he's gone after the latin mass and i've

noticed that young

catholics i you know i fell away i was

basically an atheist for about 10 years

something that drew me there were a lot

of things that drew me back but

something that drew me back was

the latin mass and specifically the

beauty the smells and the bells and the

idea that the priest is facing the altar

and we're all facing together and he's

leading us in our worship of god and

it's not just uh you know acoustic

guitar is and feel good and be a nice

person to you know and making it all

about us

in the sense of the sacred the sense of

the sacred and

and a sense of the the beautiful it's

why i asked that question about the role

of beauty in your

in in your ideas once again a function

of the telec economy okay

basically

it's synonymous with teleology

something cannot be anti-teleological or

deviate from the will of god and still

be objectively beautiful

all right

i mean there are people who will take

who can take a religious icon or a

picture

of jesus christ for example and urinate

on it

yeah right larry david i mean i don't

know yeah or even there was the famous

picture piss christ right it was a pic

it was a photograph of a crucifix that's

disgusting this is disgusting it was

funded by the federal government

i think it received funding for that i

believe it was it received some amount

of funding from i could be getting this

wrong so don't quote me but i thought it

was the national endowment for arts or

one of those organizations

really

i thought so i couldn't i could be wrong

but that's bad

real bad

so

i don't know what to say in defense of

these people i don't think there is a

defense for them

okay but if that's the kind of thing

that they regard as art then they are

not in touch with beauty and the reason

they're not in touch with beauty is that

they're not in touch with truth but i

thought i thought i was told by all my

modern teachers that beauty is in the

eye of the beholder it's a subjective

thing and it's not objective it is but

unfortunately some beholders leave

something to be desired

in their aesthetic sense you're saying

there is an objective standard

yes absolutely is it consistent with

teleology or is it not

right obviously you know

basically you've got this identity god

who is perfection anything that deviates

from that cannot by definition be good

or beautiful

okay now nature experiments i mean it

goes from one thing to another and tries

certain certain things out but once it

becomes evident that something isn't

working then it's not consistent with

teleology once it proves to be

degenerate and causes the you know

people to become demoralized and sick of

life yeah then we have to do away with

it

i've been told that

we need to tolerate also you know all

sorts of god does not tolerate evil and

neither should we

it's a beautiful way to put it

so what do you make of the modern right

you know the modern left is always

pushing this stuff but the modern a lot

of the modern right says look there was

there was a prominent columnist who

called himself conservative i guess he

sort of was for a while but now he's

pretty firmly on the left and he said

we i don't like drag queen story hour

but we need to tolerate it it's one of

the blessings of liberty if we don't

tolerate drag queen story hour what yes

a blessing of liberty well it's an or

look it's in the preamble to the

constitution i think james madison's

rolling over in his grave at the very

thought of that constitution mentions

does it

not in my last round i mean you know i

was raised in an environment where we

were you know basically taught to be

tolerant of of you know people of their

foibles and and you know their if they

wanted to be a little bit deviant well a

little bit of deviation is good you know

you can't just be locked into one rigid

way of looking at things so i developed

tolerance but now they've become

militant they've become rabid they're

shoving it down children's throats and

it's just not good for society okay

it violates the biological imperative

of survival okay

to to become totally sexual there's a

reason that men and women exist and that

they that they mate and create children

it's for the survival of the human race

okay

that has to remain paramount that's got

to be the preferred mode of existence

okay you've got to buy into that now if

you want to be if you want to deviate a

little bit in your private life and

you've got

somebody you know who agrees to be

deviant along those lines and you want

to get together in the privacy of your

own abode

you're not going to have chris lange and

knocking on their door i'm not gonna

knock on their door it's none of my

business it's for them to work out with

god almighty okay and if they can do

that more power to them i don't know how

they're gonna do it but

give them a chance okay

but when they go out and they have gay

day parades where they're cavorting you

know nude and they're going into

children's restrooms and so forth that's

where we have to draw the line

you see

i mentioned this modern writer who's who

is very misguided on this particular

point

are there

thinkers alive today

who you think are worth reading people

always say what's the reading list what

should i read what should i listen to

are there philosophers or

popular right there are no academic

philosophers that are worthy as far as

i'm concerned of attention what about

now not because all of them are stupid

or anything like that it's because

they've bought into the party they're

academics yeah okay they cannot

violate you know the the academic

communistic atheistic narrative and get

away with it
okay and if you're in that system then

obviously you're playing along with it

and you can't do that and be an honest

truthful philosopher are there are there

non-academic

writers thinkers philosophers who you

would recommend people read

i'm sure they're out there i haven't

encountered any not recently what about

okay so that gets rid of the living

people what about uh those dead guys

all those old dead guys going back to

ancient greece or anywhere in the middle

a lot of those guys had something very

useful to say who if uh if a listener

right now said i want to know

who

beyond beyond his own writing who uh the

smartest man in the world wants me to

read

who would you recommend

well i would say that you should go back

and definitely read aristotle and plato

and socrates okay start with that and

then go up and then you know work your

way through there a lot of smart guys

read the platinus read about

neoplatonism right and once you find out

about neoplatonism then you can go back

to the ancient vedic religion right

because it's basically the same thing in

different language

and as you know then neoplatonism kind

of became a mainstay of medieval

christianity

okay and there's a lot to that so

those you've got that takes us up

through you know it takes us up through

some of the the medieval christian

philosophers and psalm aquinas augustine

and

beyond that then it starts getting dicey

you see i mean even when you get up to

like rene descartes for example

everything it becomes dualistic

you know you've got these cartesian

spaces that more or less exclude the

observer there are no images of god in a

cartesian space

you know uh chris have you ever because

you worked at bars you ever hear about

the horse who shows up to the bar and

asks the bartender for a drink and the

bartender says horse man you've been

here every night this week i think

you're an alcoholic

and the horse says

i don't think i am

poof the horse disappears

now you see you will understand this

this is a joke about descartes who says

i think therefore i am but if i had told

you that part first i would have put

descartes before the horse

i like it this is the only

circumstance in which that joke has ever

landed i really i'm really pleased i

finally got a laugh out of that joke

that's a very intelligent joke

much more intelligent than the ones i

usually hear

well

especially in a bar

that that at least i can believe that so

i'm

that digression aside i'm glad you bring

this up because people always ask me

they say what philosophy should i read

one why you asking me but two they

always say should i read john locke

should i read rousseau should i read the

john rawls should i read this that and i

say

maybe focus a little earlier first and

it's funny you mentioned once you get up

to aquinas

after him things start to go a little

like
a little south yeah

yeah until now of course all of that is

completely out of fashion

and most of these modern philosophers

are

you know they're they're really you know

frankfurt school to people and that's

cultural marxism which of course is

just the social program of the marxists

but but chris even though i just wrote a

book last year on cultural marxism i

have been told reliably informed by

wikipedia that's just a crazy conspiracy

theory

yes well wikipedia seems to think i'm a

crazy conspiracy theory too you read my

biography there

not recently

everything bad that you can say you know

basically i was exiled from wikipedia

years ago i went in and said no wait a

minute here no i'm not an intelligent

design creationist per se i have a

different approach to teleology and all

that and i was immediately kicked off

wikipedia

okay so i can't they can say whatever

they want to in my biography in

wikipedia there's not a thing i can do

about it because you even suggested the

idea of some sort of intelligent design

that is correct well i've been getting

trolled ever since around the year

two thousand well it goes back further

than that really but but

when i went on national television and

said well

the the existence of god is actually

amenable to logical analysis and you can

show that there is a god provided you

have the right that was enough

intelligent design creationists get out

of here

so i've been you know then these people

are by the way these new atheists i mean

they're really

they're adamant you're talking about uh

richard dawkins daniel down talking

about richie dawkins daniel dennis sam

harris well i don't know chris kitchens

you know i mean guys of this nature uh

you know

whose myers

p z meyers and people like that i had a

running with myers i mean he asked my

guts he hated my guts 20 years ago

none of them will mention my name out

now though because they know that they

can be crushed
deep down inside they know they won't

come anywhere near me at some point

these people decided that they had to

exclude anybody who could beat them

okay

that's where the cancellation thing

began really

it's a new atheist thing and now since

the new atheists are a lot more

fashionable than christians are that's

that's the order of the day i blame my

falling away from the church on just

being a punk 13 year old boy but but the

second thing i blame is the new atheists

they were very popular at the time and i

was uh very taken with them chris

hitchen he's a funny guy i thought okay

he must be a smart excellent speaker

yeah you know incisive witty but

obviously he just hates god i mean he

makes that very clear so

you're all religions are evil because

they mislead people and drag people away

from you know but you didn't you didn't

just say that he doesn't believe in god

you said he hates god hates god dawkins

obviously hates god why is there evil in

the world usually yeah that's what it

comes down to right right

would it would it just god

tolerate all of the evil that is

occurring in the world

you know the fact of the matter is there

can be there can be no good there can be

no pleasure without pain there can be no

good without evil okay god knows that

there is always the possibility

to commit evil

free will right right but he has given

us free will

okay he bequeathed that where his images

he is free therefore we are free and he

expects us

to fight against evil but so stop it

from trying to care

then given will and the fact that you

use these words hate and love

very often when people talk about god

it's it's as though it were some

academic exercise well does god do i

believe in god do i but you're you're

you're using verbs that are more active

than that

hate and love do you think that

do you think that our discussion or our

understanding of god therefore must be

uh

active and participatory rather than

merely
absolutely and furthermore it must be

rational as well as faith-based a lot of

religionists are fideistic which means

they rely completely on faith and say

that we can have no knowledge of god

wasn't that nonsense yeah okay

you have to know what you got faith in

yeah okay how can you invest faith in

something that you don't know what it is

you need at least an elementary

description of it before you can

predicate

before you can attribute faith to it

before you can invest belief in it all

right if you invest belief in x but you

don't know what x is is that meaningful

obviously not

so faith and rationality are indelibly

coupled okay

there's there's just no other way to

talk about it yeah as soon as you hear

somebody say well it's entirely a matter

of faith and we can believe whatever we

want to have faith in whatever we want

to that makes no sense at all to me i

totally agree with that and it does

bother me when religious people speak in

that way in modern times it's funny

though you mentioned thomas aquinas was

there ever a more rational guy in the

world than tom the guy wrote to every

question in religion he had

three objections and then answers to the

objections quite irrational we've gone

to another aristotle and i mean that you

know just

and all these but all of these early

christian philosophers are now out of

fashion nobody pays attention anymore so

no except christians right real real

ones not fake ones practicing ones yeah

so then

i know i've kept all of your time but i

don't care darn it you're here in

nashville and i've got a lot i'm just

fine

do you have religious practice

uh there is

yes uh well let's just put it this way i

don't

currently

attend church um but up until uh

several years i started doing like my

own kind of like

thing with preaching right so i i

decided that i didn't but i was for

about

10 15 years i went to a little

country church up the road from us

right now i live on a road where there

used to be three historic churches two

of them were burned down

arson

not not accidental not accidental no and

they were historical you know civil war

era

churches okay but one was left

right and it was it was north of us

about two and a half miles north of us

on route p there so i attended that

church

pretty religiously very regularly for a

long time

now as it happened the last thing that i

heard is run by a

wonderful lady that actually takes care

of most of what goes on there and it's

got a good pastor

uh right but uh you know i finally

decided that okay

what i have to do is go out and start

talking about these things myself

so since then that's what i've been

doing

i wish you were here on a sunday i could

take you to my good latin mass parish

here i think you would like it i was

twice baptized to catholic way back when

but it's like i say i don't

i was i was a kid

one of my aunts was a nun aunt sybil

right

so you know i have some fond memories of

what it's like to be a real catholic

but i don't think that that kind of

catholicism is

in vogue it's it's certain it's

certainly not invoked yeah

when uh young people are searching for

meaning

as you say you looked for meaning in

your life it reminds me of victor frankl

right man search for meaning says search

for meaning is

man's primary motivator more than sex

more than

anything else and that's the way it

should be yeah but that's not the way it

is anymore they just want the money they

won't even believe that you're

intelligent if you don't have a lot of

money right right

but people always ask you this why

aren't you a billionaire

why why aren't i billionaires people i

appeal i've seen people billionaires

hate my guts

see
i don't i don't go along with the

look

they have to give you the opportunity to

make money you need to have connections

in order to make money you need to make

friends out of people who have a lot of

it if you if you had the connections

would you have striven to make money

not at the expense of truth no i'd have

gone after meaning first now i used to

think that well it should be possible in

theory to go after

both

then i discovered that that wasn't

necessarily true

if you go after truth too hard then

you're going to make a bad impression

on mammon on the people with all the

money yeah and eventually you're going

to be

canceled

out of uh any sort of a comfortable life

and isn't there is also just a time

issue right i mean

if you dedicate yourself to

i don't know doing spreadsheets or

something

you're probably not going to have a ton

of time to pursue truth or am i wrong

about that am i just underestimating you

you're absolutely right

you know eventually that's what you

become you know

we are what we do more or less so you've

got to make up your mind what you want

to spend your time doing

and it's it's i consider it to be better

to seek truth and meaning and god than

it is to pursue money

now who agrees with me these days

not many i'd like to have it all but i i

certainly i would like to bring mankind

back to the point where we care about

those things again because of course

then the question is

you know if if you

if you

just focus your life on money just for

money's sake just to get stuff

you know you're you can't take it with

you

eventually that's that all that stuff is

going to decline well yes of course it

is but a lot of these rich people are

into something called transhumanism

they don't think that they're going to

have to leave so there's no problem with

not being able to take it with you

because you're not going anywhere you're

going to upload your consciousness to a

computer you see i've i've heard this

it's a very popular idea

a lot of my young friends will tell me

michael we might not even die we're as

though as though every generation in

history hasn't had the same delusion but

it's all i i always laugh at it

but but very wealthy very powerful

ostensibly intelligent people take this

seriously we're just going to upload our

best

intelligence

that's an important uh

caveat

you

you don't think we're just going to

upload our brains to the cloud or

something

you know that's what reality already is

that's we've already done it

self-simulation we've already done it we

are living in the display of a s of a

simulation a self-simulating universe

right

and we are going to be uploaded when

we're done with this simulation we're

going to be

uploaded to the source of all truth

meaning and power

then

depending on the decision that is made

by that entity we can be redistributed

to another universe a heaven a hell a

new creation

pardon me a new creation brad the idea

of the resurrection of the body right

that is correct so

before

before these uh

genius gazillionaires who fancy that

they're going to upload their brains to

the

ibm computer or something before they

meet their particular judgment before

they shuffle off this mortal coil do you

think there's any chance that they're

going to figure out the secret and not

have to face death no

no way it's like i say soros is probably

the best among them and he's way he's

far

you you know how it is i mean i i guess

the hindus had a better way of looking

at this you know in chris in

christianity there's there's one goal

salvation okay

in hinduism there are four goals okay

you've got kama art the dharma and

moksha right and kama is sensual

pleasure

right

and artha is

is being able to

acquire wealth and power

then you've got dharma which is

righteousness and then above dharma

you've got moksha which is salvation

that's actual union with the absolute or

with god okay the people running the

world right now all of these people that

you just mentioned

are stuck in numbers one and two they

haven't made it to dharma and they're

never going to make it to moksha that's

why they want to upload their

consciousness to a machine

they know that god isn't going to take

them back if they continue doing what

they're doing all right so they want to

displace reality itself by recreating

reality in a mechanical form that then

they can control

do you think there's any relation

between the transhumanist movement and

the transgender movement

the idea that we're just going to escape

our bodies

[Music]
i do the the idea

the idea i think

is that you can throw off all constraint

you can throw off the constraints of

reality you construe the including

constraints of gender

that's what i think the commonality is

and i think these are

you know

they're anti-teleological both of them i

agree but we do have certain constraints

you know reality is full of constraints

and we're better off recognizing what

they are

before i let you go

as we sit here in the clouds

and some simulation of the clouds here

before i let you go people are going to

be asking

so what do i do

what should i do right now

assuming we're not going to launch the

american or this second american

revolution or anything like that

what should i do in my own life even

even maybe beyond any political

questions search for god

ask god to establish a personal

relationship with you

it's available you're attached to god by

your soul okay there's this soul that

attaches you to god

you can receive

the will of god into yourself

and to some extent the power of god into

yourself but you've got to be receptive

if you're not receptive then you're

cutting yourself off from god

okay and once you do that then you do

not share the identity of reality itself

and you're done

once your physical body expires there is

nothing that will carry you because you

have denied it and rejected it

you follow me

that's what people need to do i do i

think that's good advice

i'm glad you agree

that's good for you

it is it's good it's sort of like

reaching out and grabbing do this do

that search for god that's so this is

though to shake the audience uh chris

this has been

a true pleasure

thank you for coming out thank you for

making the trek

well it's been my pleasure i don't

travel very often you know i've told you

the reasons for that

but i'm glad i made this trip michael

thank you chris