It's no secret that Windows 11 isn't doing nearly as well as Microsoft had hoped, so 1+1=2, I guess.

It still won't make me switch back to Windows now. Microsoft has lost my trust, and it'll take them a lot more effort to earn it back. Windows needs to be better, leaner, and more respectful to the user, imo.

They were about to generate an ungodly amount of e-waste

MS is a friggin joke, they've been preaching and swearing that TPM will not be dropped as 11 requirement -even when there are workarounds to install without it that means it's really NOT needed by the OS- and not even a 2 weeks later they drop their pants and spread'em cheeks wide.

If TPM was really a core functionality, the system should BSOD without one, or refuse to start in anything but safemode, just like when you tried to install windows 10 on a cpu without CMPXCHG16B instruction, it would simply fail and refuse to install because the code would simply NOT run.

Absolutely zero trust on whatever they do, they're a laughingstock i will NEVER run win11 on ANY device i have personally or professionally control over or under my purview, even if win10 is out of support i will keep running it on entire networks

RaisThey were about to generate an ungodly amount of e-waste

I don't think so - the majority of people with older PCs don't care and/or don't have the money for a new one, and are still happy on Windows 10 or 7 (or Linux). The people who do care have had plenty of time to buy their new, Windows 11 compatible systems already.

Personally, I think Microsoft just wants to temporarily please their investors by pointing at the sudden surge in the number of people who've upgraded (even though it doesn't mean anything in terms of sales).

Source??
I cannot locate this source for the news.
Are you under the mistaken impression that TPM 2.0 is no longer needed based on what is written on the following website?

support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/installing-windows-11-on-devices-that-don-t-meet-minimum-system-requirements-0b2dc4a2-5933-4ad4-9c09-ef0a331518f1

I made the mistake of upgrading to Win 11 2H24 on my Asus ROG laptop. Constant blue screens and sluggish performance. I’ve never seen so many bugs coming from MS software (Windows, Office, etc) compared to the past.

The intersection of increasingly bloated software and providing the software as a service rather than a product may doom MS. That Crowdstrike crash a few months back will be seen as the good times.

What are pile of nonsense lingo from Microsoft! They will not take a responsibility even for the quality of toilet paper in a corporate restroom.

DF published latest insights into major issues with Windows 11, on compatible devices.

*sigh* Just hit MS with an anti-trust already and rip Windows out of their hands to form a completely separate entity. Hell, considering just how widely used it is and how many players are interested in keeping it going I can even see it being mantained by a non-profit foundation supported by big players financially. Do the same with Chromium and Google for the web
The whole idea of what is, essentially, the sole real consumer and business desktop OS being under the control of a huge publicly traded multinational corpo was terrible from the inception and has just gotten worse with time. Compound that with the definite feeling that MS is REALLY not TOO interested in Windows anymore compared to their other ventures.

It's simple... They thought people was going to upgrade their systems to get 11 (like they did with Vista-7) but obviously people just left their computers with 10 if they didn't know/want to bypass the restriction (the difference with XP-Vista transition is that computers that can run 10, can run 11 too).
So now the restriction just hurts market share and they cancel it.

Well, damage as been done, now people are not going back.

Let me explain, my parents had a very old system running Windows 10, the only thing they do is some basic browsing and taking care of their financial stuff (they have some houses which they rent so they need to deal with stuff in the financial websites of the country).

With the Windows 10 support coming to an end, I could had installed Windows 11 unnoficially through rufus, altough I've just decided a couple months ago moving them to Mint 21.2 (at the time was the lastest).
Guess what? they are super happy and no issues until now, fortunaly they don't do document processing so the only thing they really need is a browser and a file manager and with this they lost a user using Edge, bing, and other free services that microsoft uses, not a big deal for Microsoft I'm sure, but they don't consider Windows anymore and so it's another one not using their system.

As for my wife, I just upgraded her laptop, which was too beaten and had a lot of hardware issues, so she has Windows 11 and will continue to have, she uses Office 365 so she will never move on from Microsoft and that's OK because it really fits to her and it's great.

As for me, I do like to game and benchmark, but I've been mainly on Linux lately, but for video recording and benchmarks (since my users are on Windows) I'm still using Windows for that matter, and I like to do comparations between both.

I think there is OSs for everyone tastes and needs, and I really think that many people rely on Microsoft, not because it's OS itself, but mostly due to their services/products, mainly Microsoft Office.

Business makes sense for me to use Windows due to it's support.
Altough for many regular users, especially the ones that don't need to rely in Microsoft products/services, they can move on, but most of the people just don't know there are alternatives and unfortunaly Linux is kind of a mess with 1000 available distros and many not being very user friendly.

Tek-CheckWhat are pile of nonsense lingo from Microsoft! They will not take a responsibility even for the quality of toilet paper in a corporate restroom.

Do you blame them? I wouldn't take any responsibility for Windows 11, either. :roll:

Onasi*sigh* Just hit MS with an anti-trust already and rip Windows out of their hands to form a completely separate entity. Hell, considering just how widely used it is and how many players are interested in keeping it going I can even see it being mantained by a non-profit foundation supported by big players financially. Do the same with Chromium and Google for the web
The whole idea of what is, essentially, the sole real consumer and business desktop OS being under the control of a huge publiclly traded multinational corpo was terrible from the inception and has just gotten worse with time. Compound that with the definite feeling that MS is REALLY not TOO interested in Windows anymore compared to their other ventures.

Except that Windows isn't "the sole real consumer and business desktop OS". It's just that not many people know how usable Linux has become in recent years.

Other than that, interesting idea. :)

eq-jSource??
I cannot locate this source for the news.
Are you under the mistaken impression that TPM 2.0 is no longer needed based on what is written on the following website?

support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/installing-windows-11-on-devices-that-don-t-meet-minimum-system-requirements-0b2dc4a2-5933-4ad4-9c09-ef0a331518f1

Yep, this "news item" is a train wreck and should be removed.

Also, a TPM "module" was never a requirement, all supported CPUs have firmware TPM support. Perpetuating this stupid myth makes people go out and buy physical TPM modules for machines that have fTPM, stop it.

@AusWolf
It effectively is. Linux is completely irrelevant in the consumer desktop space still and in business (in a lot of orgs, at least) any attempts to try and convince your bosses to go over to Linux and away from Win/Office ecosystem will get you laughed ot of the room. I don't CARE if it's because "people just don't know". Fuck, I would say that MacOS is closer to being a relevant second player than Linux EVER was. And it's not changing rapidly enough. I have hopes, but it will take years and someone actually taking the FOSS community by the throat and being the adult in the room capable of saying "no, stop in-fighting like children, we are doing things one way to make shit actually happen". So far, Valve is TRYING, but I don't feel like it's enough.

The goal MS has it to get it onto every machine possible and this change is towards that end.

Everyone by now knows MS is loading their OS with telemetry.

That's one goal they have in mind and they are trying to entice those that currently cannot install Win 11 onto whatever machine they have to do it, so their data can be harvested too because well... Their data is "Worth" something too and MS isn't about pass on an opportunity for it.

For those that refuse to have Windows as their OS it's just another thing to try and convince them to do so for the same basic reason.

MS knows they've botched alot of things with their updates over time and that's an additional reason why - To make it seem as if they are listening to and caring about you when that's not the case.

The reversal of their previous statement really says it all - You just can't trust them to keep their word as the reversal proves in itself.

L'EliminateurMS is a friggin joke, they've been preaching and swearing that TPM will not be dropped as 11 requirement -even when there are workarounds to install without it that means it's really NOT needed by the OS- and not even 2 weeks later they drop their pants and spread'em cheeks wide.

Sounds about right - Esp when it comes to getting what they really want and and I can promise you one thing, they'll be more than happy to "Service" you (With a shit-eating grin) in the same way if there's a buck to be made and a person's data to be had over it.

ObscureAngelPTI think there is OSs for everyone tastes and needs, and I really think that many people rely on Microsoft, not because it's OS itself, but mostly due to their services/products, mainly Microsoft Office.

Perhaps not even that - there are office suites for Linux, too. Many people just don't know that alternatives exist. In many people's eyes, Windows is the only gaming-capable, or something-capable OS.

When I switched to Linux, some of my friends were laughing, saying "you'll never be able to run X game". And here I am, running X game and all the rest just fine.

Onasi@AusWolf
It effectively is. Linux is completely irrelevant in the consumer desktop space still and in business (in a lot of orgs, at least) any attempts to try and convince your bosses to go over to Linux and away from Win/Office ecosystem will get you laughed ot of the room. I don't CARE if it's because "people just don't know". Fuck, I would say that MacOS is closer to being a relevant second player than Linux EVER was. And it's not changing rapidly enough. I have hopes, but it will take years and someone actually taking the FOSS community by the throat and being the adult in the room capable of saying "no, stop in-fighting like children, we are doing things one way to make shit actually happen". So far, Valve is TRYING, but I don't feel like it's enough.

Are we talking about market share, or how usable an OS really is?

Because if it's market share, then I agree. Being a community-based OS, Linux doesn't have the marketing power in the consumer space that Microsoft does, nor does it offer similar business solutions.

If we're talking about real world usability, then Linux is more than just a viable alternative - it is actually superior to Windows in some aspects (it's free, it doesn't need drivers on AMD, the app store is more extensive, it doesn't pester you with meaningless messages/ads, updates don't hog your system, etc.).

@AusWolf
Of course we are talking market share. That is what directly informs the public perception and widespread usage. Linux might be usable, and it is, very much so, hell, it might be better than crack coated Oreos, but unless and until it's actually at least in double digits it will remain irrelevant. And the whole "there are 5 billion distros" thing also doesn't help to capture hearts and minds of normies - it's cool for the tech-heads, but the normie just wants to know what OS he needs to install/comes with his device. I have seen personally peoples eyes glazing over in real time when explanations of "distros" and "desktop environments" start. They know Windows (or MacOS). They know the latest is usually better. They know it will run whatever software and hardware they need. That is what they want. Hell, MS essentially shot themselves in the dick with the convoluted reqs for 11 and THAT, I feel, is the reason for sluggish adoption, not whatever questionable UI decisions or bloat or privacy concerns we like to talk about. Normies don't care.

AusWolfIt's no secret that Windows 11 isn't doing nearly as well as Microsoft had hoped, so 1+1=2, I guess.

It still won't make me switch back to Windows now. Microsoft has lost my trust, and it'll take them a lot more effort to earn it back. Windows needs to be better, leaner, and more respectful to the user, imo.

Fat chance of that happening...

@Onasi

Valve's managed to put Wayland's developers (in the fucking Gnome school of thought) in line by threatening to fork the shit out of the project by implementing plenty of patches for their own branch they just can't refuse and having a functional mini-compositor for gaming (Gamescope). Before Valve butted in you couldn't even turn off V-Sync because those numbskulls thought that was the "correct" way to do it.

The following web page already exists from 2021.

support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/installing-windows-11-on-devices-that-don-t-meet-minimum-system-requirements-0b2dc4a2-5933-4ad4-9c09-ef0a331518f1

What is written here is a warning for installing Windows 11 on a non-supported PC.
It does not mean that TPM 2.0 is no longer needed.
Both you and PC World are mistaken.
Installing Windows 11 on a non-supported PC requires a bypass.

Onasi@AusWolf
Of course we are talking market share. That is what directly informs the public perception and widespread usage. Linux might be usable, and it is, very much so, hell, it might be better than crack coated Oreos, but unless and until it's actually at least in double digits it will remain irrelevant. And the whole "there are 5 billion distros" thing also doesn't help to capture hearts and minds of normies - it's cool for the tech-heads, but the normie just wants to know what OS he needs to install/comes with his device. I have seen personally peoples eyes glazing over in real time when explanations of "distros" and "desktop environments" start. They know Windows (or MacOS). They know the latest is usually better. They know it will run whatever software and hardware they need. That is what they want. Hell, MS essentially shot themselves in the dick with the convoluted reqs for 11 and THAT, I feel, is the reason for sluggish adoption, not whatever questionable UI decisions or bloat or privacy concerns we like to talk about. Normies don't care.

I agree with you there.

On a personal note, I just like telling people about my experiences with Linux, considering that I've used Windows basically all my life (with the exception of a short break when I was curious at one point) starting with 95 all the way to 10, and just recently switched over to Linux permanently. I know it won't affect market share in any meaningful way, but I believe people need to know that they have options (not just with OSes, or tech, but with anything in life, really). Just because something doesn't enjoy millions being pumped into advertising it through mainstream media, it doesn't mean it's shit. :)
In fact, finding out how great Linux is even compared to Windows is an experience comparable to finding God (not that I know what that's like, but this is how I imagine it in tech terms). :D

@Imouto
Yeah, I saw that too. Pretty much the only thing Valve can do is to wrangle those idiots using threats of violence and it really IS necessary at this point. I agree with Linus that Valve is unironically whathas the potential to salvage Linux on desktop.

AusWolfPerhaps not even that - there are office suites for Linux, too.

Sorry, yes but NO.
The alternatives work very well, don't get me wrong.
The issue is most of the people using Microsoft Office proprietary formats like DocX and Xlsx.

Well Libreoffice and other suites can't manage to get that compatibility very well in many occasions and my Wife for example works with excels that have embbedd macros on the Excels, it's impossible to use Libreoffice on those occasions.
Altough for very casual occasions it does work, but I think it's more easier to show them the limited Word Online or Google Docs than convince people to use Libreoffice and other Linux Suites.

Onasi@Imouto
Yeah, I saw that too. Pretty much the only thing Valve can do is to wrangle those idiots using threats of violence and it really IS necessary at this point. I agree with Linus that Valve is unironically whathas the potential to salvage Linux on desktop.

I didn't knew about this but it doesn't shock me.
I guess at one point Valve will get tired of this and will fork just everything to their needs and starts to get away from Linux as we know it, just like Google have done with Android, they forked everything they needed and start to develop their own stuff more in a more closed approach as time gone by.

Wont be surprised if it was thanks to push back from enterprizes(especially banking sector) that might have been the reason for this back pedalling. Many banks are still using Win10 based PCs and they arent too keen to upgrade their current spyware to even worse version of spyware.

The only Reason why Microsoft wanted TPM 2.0 was to encrypt hard drives with Bitlocker. Call it there own little ransomware built in.

OEM's was building PC's with Bitlocker enabled even for home editions.

I have 5 desktops, all updated to Win 11 24H2, Home and Pro(Retail) versions, in my home and have not now or ever had the problems posted in this forum post.
Am I doing something wrong? :lovetpu: