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== Application software ==

Hello. Not all software is application software. Why did you put utilities, file managers, and even free and proprietary software there? --[[User:AVRS|AVRS]] ([[User talk:AVRS|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 21:46, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:{{reply to|AVRS}} I kind of agree, but {{Q|7397}} is not about one entity, it is more the generic concept, opposing to hardware.  Can you suggest any other entity that would be more generic than application software but not be simply "software"?  It must somehow inherit from "creative work".  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 21:50, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:: {{reply to|Laddo}} What do you mean by "one entity"? If you mean non-executable stuff is software, then I guess you are mixing it up with something like "data"; if you mean it's not about a single program or project (and thus a file manager is not "a" software), then neither is "application software", I think. --[[User:AVRS|AVRS]] ([[User talk:AVRS|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 21:58, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:::{{reply to|AVRS}} To me a software "entity" is executable machine code... [[:en:Category:Software]] proposes three subclasses: {{Q|166142}}, {{Q|676202}} and {{Q|1077784}}.  I could use these, instead of dumping everything in application software.  A bit more trouble but it would make more sense in general.  OK with you? - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:05, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:::: {{reply to|Laddo}} “To me a software "entity" is executable machine code...” I think I disagree with you there, as I want the "free software" item to be about computer programs that conform to either FSF's or Debian's criteria, so it can require the non-code stuff to be free. Also… I don't think you oppose "application software"'s being subclass of "software"? --[[User:AVRS|AVRS]] ([[User talk:AVRS|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 22:12, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
::::: {{reply to|AVRS}} OK, OK :) software "entities" may include data and the like...  Also toolkits and software libraries must fit somewhere. All of these do already inherit from {{Q|7397}}, but I believe they should all do so through a limited number of intermediate "types", if there is no unique "box" for "software entities".  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:30, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
:::::: {{reply to|Laddo}} Well, "human" is currently "part of" "humanity", but I'm afraid it would become too complex: you'd also need items for application software entities etc. I guess the word "project" wouldn't work here.
:::::: We already have a problem because the "genre" field of infoboxes is a kind of "instance of" or "subclass of" (Maybe it could be solved with qualifiers? Sorry if it has already been solved and I missed that.).
:::::: --[[User:AVRS|AVRS]] ([[User talk:AVRS|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 22:41, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
{{od}}
{{reply to|AVRS}} I'll try to draw up a set of subclasses and revisit the items that I recently assigned to {{Q|166142}}.  Thanks - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:53, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
: A relevant discussion: [[Wikidata:Project_chat#Is_it_an_instance_of_if_there_is_more_than_one_of_it.3F]]. --[[User:AVRS|AVRS]] ([[User talk:AVRS|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 19:40, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

== Coup de gueule ==

Désolé pour l'entrée en matière, mais quand je vois la pagaille que tu as mis sur certains éléments, je ne peux pas vraiment applaudir. Peux-tu me dire ce que tu as fait sur l'élément {{q|153}} ? Tu as supprimé plusieurs références et maintenant on se retrouve avec des références de moins bonne qualité, exemple la propriété {{p|662}} ou alors la propriété {{p|232}} où tu mets un lien web qui n'aboutit à aucune page (dans ce dernier cas, mieux vaut utiliser le document du Journal officiel de l'EU (cf [[Property_talk:P232]]) au lieu d'un lien web vers un site qui, semble-t-il, n'autorise pas les liens directs vers ses pages). Si tu a utilisé un bot, il faudrait revoir le code avant de poursuivre et je ne peux que t'encourager avant de te lancer dans une importation de masse de donnée de discuter avec le [[WD:WikiProject Chemistry|projet chimie]] afin que l'on discute des meilleures sources à utiliser. Au plaisir de discuter de la suite à donner afin de mieux collaborer. [[User:Snipre|Snipre]] ([[User talk:Snipre|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 00:09, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
:{{reply to|Snipre}} Whoa, du calme...  J'ai n'ai modifié que {{q|153}}, début décembre, manuellement et soigneusement, puisqu'il était candidat pour [[Wikidata talk:Showcase items]] (et peut-être un autre item de chimie?)  Je ne vois vois pas de pagaille où que se soit: 
:* Selon [[Help:Sources/Items not needing sources]], les propriétés de type authority control n'ont pas a être sourcées, puisqu'elles constituent elles-mêmes une confirmation de leur justesse - d'autant plus si tu utilises le gadget du même nom qui transforme chacune de ces valeurs en liens vers le site de référence, tel [https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=702 https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/summary.cgi?cid=702] pour {{p|662}}; d'autre part, des discussions ont proposé que des trucs du genre "Imported from Russian Wikipedia" soient supprimés lorsqu'un humain a vérifié sa validité, idéalement remplacés par une meilleure source s'il y a lieu;
:* Même commentaire pour {{p|232}}, mais le gadget est défectueux depuis que les liens [http://esis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/lib/esis_reponse.php?LANG=en&FROM=LISTE_EINECS&ENTREE=200-578-6 http://esis.jrc.ec.europa.eu/lib/esis_reponse.php?LANG=en&FROM=LISTE_EINECS&ENTREE=$1] ne fonctionnent plus.  Je ne me rappelle pas avoir supprimé de source de bonne qualité, mais seulement des "imported from" (mais l'erreur est humaine) [vérification faite, j'ai supprimé des "PubChem" sans liens en ligne].
:Donc pas de bot, pas de suppression en vrac - précise quelles modifs tu trouves invalides, je regarde [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q153&diff=92245523&oldid=92192147 mes changements] et n'y trouve rien de particulièrement mauvais... ??
:'' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 03:52, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

== Adding both {{Q|571}} and {{Q|386724}} as {{P|31}} ==

Hi, 

just wanted to let you know that edits like [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q14944010&diff=108900750&oldid=108900737 this] are unnecessary since {{Q|571}} is already a {{P|279}} {{Q|386724}}. --[[User:Shisma|Shisma]] ([[User talk:Shisma|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 17:24, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Shisma}} Thanks for the info.  I reproduced what's on {{Q|208460}}, which made sense - I remember some discussions mentioning that not all books were "creative"; my error, I did not check.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 23:01, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

== Constraints for P1172 ==

I see you improving constraints and documentation to Properties in my watchlist. Can you take a look at {{P|1172}}? The code always have 7 numbers, the first two are always in the range 01 - 25. The items are always in P17:Q34 and have P132:Subclass of an Administrative unit. The set of kinds of Administrative units is limited in numbers, but I do not know exactly all of them. The source should always be p248:Q15829731. (If such constraints can be added of course.) -- [[User:Lavallen|Lavallen]] ([[User talk:Lavallen|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 19:37, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Lavallen}} Done.  I took the liberty of requiring {{P|131}} as well.  I don't think there is a scheme to check sources (yet).  Let me know if other changes are needed.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 13:15, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
::Thx! There are some exceptions from the "single value"-constraint, but that's normal. -- [[User:Lavallen|Lavallen]] ([[User talk:Lavallen|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 13:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Lavallen}} Most constraint templates support an optional (and undocumented) argument <code><nowiki>|exceptions = </nowiki></code> that excludes specific items from violation reports, if you prefer it that way.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 13:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
::::Good. There are some third-level-municipalities that are located in two or more second-level-municipalities. Then each part of that third-level-municipality have it's own code. There is maybe also some exception to "Subclass of an Administrative unit", since I do not know if "market tows who isn't a municipality" can be considered an Administrative unit or not. -- [[User:Lavallen|Lavallen]] ([[User talk:Lavallen|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 14:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

== range of ''belongs to administrative division of'' ==

Hi, I have doubts about [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q10859268&diff=116832626&oldid=116832564 this diff]. A blason is not really located anywhere ... The purpose of this property was to state that an administrative division was a subdivision of another subdivison, so a blason is not relevant here. [[User:TomT0m|TomT0m]] ([[User talk:TomT0m|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 12:29, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
: Salut {{ping|TomT0m}}, I must agree with you, {{P|131}} is not appropriate for that.  However, the use of {{P|237}} to store its associated territory is no better, since the property is meant to point from a territory to its coat of arms, and not the other way around, see [[Property talk:P237]].  I was looking for a property similar to {{P|17}}, but that I could use for country subdivisions, ''e.g.'' {{Q|13218404}} or {{Q|3724}}... but even such a property could not be used for all coats of arms, since the associated subject can be a person or an organization.  Of course there is no property "associated to", but is there some kind of "symbol of" that you know about ?  {{P|361}} ? {{P|805}} ?  I don't want to resort to {{P|642}}...  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 21:25, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

== P1214 ==

I discovered already yesterday that the string in {{P|1214}} can be 12 digits long as an alternative to 13 digits. Can you solve that for me? -- [[User:Lavallen|Lavallen]] ([[User talk:Lavallen|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 06:55, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Lavallen}} [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Property_talk:P1214&diff=117144041&oldid=117119080 done]  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 10:02, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

== [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata_talk%3AList_of_properties&diff=118376307&oldid=89829114 List of properties] ==

What's happened? You have deleted all :)  I restore it. --[[User:ValterVB|ValterVB]] ([[User talk:ValterVB|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 16:36, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

== Constraints for P775? ==

Is ot possible to add contraints to P755 that tells that:

P131 should be connected to at least one items who have P132:Q193556 and to one item with P132:Q127448, this since I think we have to add both Province and Municipality to P131 in the items. -- [[User:Lavallen|Lavallen]] ([[User talk:Lavallen|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 11:05, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Lavallen}} existing constraints do not allow constraining something like "P131=(P132=Qx)".  However the API allows creating such a request.  I added a section with predefined maintenance requests (the two cases that you requested) on the talk page of {{P|775}}, [[Property_talk:P775#Some_maintenance_lists|see here]]; in the future you may create more such requests. - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 15:54, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

== Wondering the difference between a production and a show in Internet Broadway Database ==

Hi there, I'm translating the property of IBDB series into Chinese. And I don't understand the difference between a show and a production, are those two different? In which way they distinguish one out of another? If you could explain to me, that would be very nice, thank you. --03:29, 21 April 2014 (UTC) - {{unsigned|Shangkuanlc}}
: {{ping|Shangkuanlc}} I do not know too much either: "production" has links like this: http://www.ibdb.com/production.php?id=494910 whereas "show" has links like this: http://www.ibdb.com/show.php?id=8555... I guess that: a "production" is a series of individual events held in one theatre by the same group of actors, while a "show" is a work of art that can be "produced" multiple times, at different theatres and by different groups of actors, with different organizations. - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 03:42, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
:: Thank you for the reply, I agree with you. I will modify the translation accordingly. --[[User:Shangkuanlc|Shangkuanlc]] ([[User talk:Shangkuanlc|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 08:59, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

== Alvíss ([[Q1143134]]) ==

Hi! I have changed Alvíss ([[Q1143134]]) to have it same style as the other items. Please use [[Wikidata:Project chat#Norse_mythology]] for comments. Thanks in advance! Regards gangLeri [[User:לערי ריינהארט|לערי ריינהארט]] ([[User talk:לערי ריינהארט|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 22:15, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
: {{ping|לערי ריינהארט}} Better indeed, thanks! '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:28, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

== Male vs. male animal ==

Beware, there is {{P|21}}={{Q|6581097}} for humans but {{P|21}}={{Q|44148}} for animal, important distinctions in some languages.  See what happened to {{Q|15221508}}.  Are there many more like that?
:(''traduit pour faciliter la communication:..) Attention il existe {{P|21}}={{Q|6581097}} pour les humains mais {{P|21}}={{Q|44148}} pour les animaux; la distinction est importante dans certaines langues.  Vois ce qu'est advenu de {{Q|15221508}}.  Y a-t-il d'autres cas comme celui-là? '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 19:34, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
:: OK il n'y avait que 2 animaux sur les 84 items ayant la paire "mâle".  J'ai corrigé le tout. - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 00:46, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
::: Ok merci --[[User:PAC2|PAC2]] ([[User talk:PAC2|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 08:33, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

== [[Property talk:P303]] ==

Hallo Laddo, 

with Template:Constraint: is it possible to check, if all items with P303 = 0001 to 0099 are {{Q|Q13099336}}? This is one of nine ee-breed-groups. 

Best regards, [[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 09:26, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
:{{reply to|PigeonIP}} For sure it is not possible with {{tl|Constraint}}.  I tried with [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html Autolist] but it does not yet support queries for substrings.  Sorry - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 01:05, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
::Its OK. Maybe later  ;) --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 16:41, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

:What did I wrong? [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P303&curid=14024292&diff=131503855&oldid=131135076#.22Type_Rassetaube_.28Q5433715.29.22_violations] --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 17:26, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
:info: {{Q|Q204179}} is used in nl.Infoboxes, {{Q|Q5433715}} in the English one and the ee-breed group is used in en-wp as well and shall be used in German Wikipedia . --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 17:32, 20 May 2014 (UTC))
:: Hi {{ping|PigeonIP}}, there are a few issues:
::# Your main problem is that you indicated "instance" instead of "subclass" in {{tl|Constraint:Type}} of [[Property talk:P303]];
::# Second problem: since {{Q'|Q5433715}} <!-- fancy pigeon --> is {{P|279}} {{Q'|Q204179}} <!-- domestic pigeon -->, all pigeons that are {{P|31}} any of these two items are of type {{Q|204179}}; the reverse is not true and would cause many violations all the time.  For now, just constrain "subclass of {{Q|204179}}".
::# Third issue, unless you want to remove all statements "P31={{Q|15623573}}" from all breeds of pigeons, leave constraint {{Q|15623573}} for now. 
::I will add automated lists and some maintenance requests.  Adjust them as you prefer.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 01:48, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

:::Hallo Laddo, 
:::thank you for the links. All {{P|P31}} {{Q|Q15623573}} shall know also be {{P|P279}} {{Q|Q204179}}. 
:::{{Q|Q15623573}} can be deleted. (merged with proper {{Q|Q8273906}} and {{Q|Q204179}})
:::Thank you for your hand, [[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 19:41, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
::::{{reply to|PigeonIP}} Hi, nice clean-up, good work.  Some comments:
::::*Many items ([http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?props=31,279&q=claim%5B31%3A15623573%5D this list]) are still {{P|31}}={{Q|Q15623573}}.  If you want to only rely on {{P|279}} to define pigeon breeds (as was discussed and decided), you need to ''remove'' all remaining {{P|31}}={{Q|Q15623573}}, before you can change or delete or merge {{Q|Q15623573}};
::::*I see that [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/autolist.html?props=31,279&q=claim%5B303%5D many many items] are at the same time {{P|279}} {{Q|Q204179}} AND {{Q|Q5433715}} AND/OR {{Q|Q1396328}} AND/OR {{Q|Q2256079}}...  This is weird: you do not make items at the same time  {{P|279}} a child class AND a parent class: if a given pigeon breed is a {{Q|Q5433715}}, it "inherits" the characteristic of being also a {{Q|Q204179}} - since {{Q|Q5433715}} is a subclass of {{Q|Q204179}}.  Whenever a pigeon is {{P|279}} of [http://tools.wmflabs.org/wikidata-todo/tree.html?q=204179&rp=279&lang=en&depth=2 any subclass] of {{Q|Q204179}}, you should ''remove'' {{P|279}} {{Q|Q204179}} from those breeds.  [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P303#Types_statistics Have a look at all the sub-breeds] that derive from {{Q|Q204179}}...  I will add another maintenance list to help identify redundant {{P|279}} {{Q|Q204179}}.  You may wish to clean this up as well.
::::You made a good organization of those breeds, keep up the good work!  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:45, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
::::: Hi, any reason to remove {{Type|specific pigeon breed|pigeon breeds}} on pigeon breeds items ? I'm in favor of such statements (as there may be subclasses of pigeons such as <pigeon of whatever interesting pigeon place> who might not be pigeon breeds. Or did I miss something ? <span class="mw-code" style="text-align:right; display: inline-block; padding: 0.1em;">[[User:TomT0m|TomT0m]] <sup>([[User talk:TomT0m|talk]])</sup> </span> 17:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
{{ping|TomT0m}} See [[User_talk:PigeonIP#Removing_"pigeon_breed"]] and my last edit at [[Property talk:P303]]. There are very different definitions of what a "breed" is. The "Helmet" in EE is breed group of fife or more Helmet-breeds. The US/AU and Canadians don't know these breeds so there "Helmet" is a breed... There are other exampels for this breed vs. breedgroup type of thing. Another: breed vs. marking. "Schalaster" is a marking of Silesin Croppers/Pouters (a breed) but with other breeding organisations the Schalaster Pouter is a breed itself... GerardM, the creator of the item "pigeon breed" said, "A pidgeon breed is recognised as being a specific description that a judge at an exhibition will look for when determining the quality of a specimen." - that is what a fancy pigeon is, not a breed of pigeon. A lot sporting pigeon breeds would not be a breed, cause they are not bread for show. Same goes for some utility/sqab pigeons. ... --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 18:32, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
: {{Ping|PigeonIP}} It's a POV and definition conflict. Create different classes of ''breeds'' like <Breed (Silesin Croppers/Pouters)> labelled ''Pigeon breed according to Silesin Croppers/Pouters''. They could be subclasses of <Breed according to some breeding organisation>. I don't think the best way to solve such conflicts is to remove the informations. <span class="mw-code" style="text-align:right; display: inline-block; padding: 0.1em;">[[User:TomT0m|TomT0m]] <sup>([[User talk:TomT0m|talk]])</sup> </span> 18:44, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
:: [[User:TomT0m]], you had a look at [[Property talk:P303]]? --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 18:46, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
:: And by the way: I did removed items with no information better than "is a domesticated pigeon". --[[User:PigeonIP|PigeonIP]] ([[User talk:PigeonIP|{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}]]) 18:49, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

== Please be more careful ==

You incorrectly [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q3535582&diff=142536074&oldid=102155962 marked] {{Q|3535582}} as a person. Please be more careful. Thanks for your work, in any case. [[User:JesseW|JesseW]] ([[User talk:JesseW|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 05:19, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
: {{ping|JesseW}} Good catch.  I assign "human" types based on French categories, and I am very careful, but checking articles one by one would defeat the purpose of using Widar to do mass assignments - {{Q|3535582}} simply happens to have a name that looks like the name of a human.  The good news is that it can be caught when someone will try to assign {{P|21}} to that "person" - I catch 3-4 items in that situation every time I play the Gender Wikidata Game...  Instead of taking much time to write a long message to whoever does an error, you may simply go to the revision history of the defective item and use the "undo" link to remove the error; WD will send a notification to the author and it is as effective and much simpler than leaving a message on the talk page.  Cheers - '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 11:08, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
:: I thought you *did* the assignment using the Person Wikidata Game -- if it was done en masse, I can certainly see why it happened. Regarding leaving hand-written messages -- I'm old-fashioned, and like the personal touch. But it's nice to know about the automatic notification, too. [[User:JesseW|JesseW]] ([[User talk:JesseW|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 17:17, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

== La ligne des 8-cylindres Bugatti ==

Salut Place Clichy, tu as récemment fusionné deux items dans {{Q|3646636}}, faisant je pense le contraire de ce que j'avais séparé plus tôt ce mois.  As-tu bien revu les titres et sujets des articles avant leur fusion? Je pense que {{Q|17308668}} et {{Q|16041230}} étaient justifiés, visant des modèles précis plutôt que toute la série de véhicules.  Je croyais bien pourtant que les titres et descriptions françaises et anglaises étaient claires.  Maintenant tout est entremêlé dans ce seul item; examine [[fr:Bugatti Type 30]] et [[en:Bugatti 8-cylinder line]], par exemple. 

De plus le parent {{Q|17308668}} était attaché à toute une série d'items qui pointent maintenant vers un item supprimé: [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Q17308668]...  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:22, 31 July 2014 (UTC)
:Bonjour,
:Tout d'abord, je pense qu'un lien interwiki ne signifie pas que deux articles sont exactement équivalents, mais qu'ils sont l'équivalent le plus proche dans une autre langue. Chaque projet organise ses articles comme il le souhaite, on ne peut pas garantir que des articles au périmètre exactement identique vont être créés. Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de Bugatti. Dans la mesure où seul ''en'' a un article unique sur la série des Bugatti 8 cylindres, il me parait légitime de lier cet article aux articles les plus proches. On peut toujours lier les item qui pointaient vers l'ancien [[Q17308668]] à ce nouvel item. Par contre, il y avait 3 items différents pour la Type 30 (un avec fr/uk, un avec de/sv, un avec it), ce qui me semble injustifié. De même, une fusion du style de [http://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q1002373&diff=148585132&oldid=148585030 celle-ci] me semble justifiée. Si tu le souhaites, le peux restaurer un item "série des 8 cylindres" différent de l'item "Type 30", mais à quels articles lier cet item? Que proposes-tu? [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 12:12, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
::{{ping|Place Clichy}} Je crois au contraire que Wikidata ne doit pas avoir d'items qui recoupent des articles "pas exactement équivalents": chaque item WD doit être un concept précis ({{ll|Help:Items}}).  Je pense que le rattachement d'articles qui ne se recoupent pas exactement dans un même item nuisent au modèle, sauf si les différences sont mineures.  Pour le cas qui nous occupe, j'aimerais que tu restaures {{Q|17308668}}, la classe parente de la ligne de ces modèles; l'article anglais doit certainement s'y rattacher, ainsi que l'allemand si mes souvenirs sont exacts, mais son historique devrait indiquer quels autres articles y étaient liés.  Est-ce encore possible?  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 12:57, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
:::J'ai restauré {{Q|17308668}}, je te fais confiance pour y faire les modifications appropriées. Je maintiens qu'en ce qui concerne les interwiki, on lie vers l'équivalent le plus proche, cependant la différence entre "série des 8 cylindres" et "Type 30" m'a l'air suffisante pour justifier 2 items. L'idéal serait à présent de crééer un article français sur cette série des 8 cylindres pour le lier à l'article anglais, seul lié à se sujet si l'on se réfère au titre.  [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 08:57, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
::::{{ping|Place Clichy}} Ce sont finalement les wikis en, de & sv qui décrivent toute la ligne de voitures; je les ai rattachés à {{Q|17308668}}.  De mon côté je me limite au développement de Wikidata, il y a déjà suffisamment à faire :)  Merci pour la restauration.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 12:41, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
:::::Merci pour ces modifs, mais on ne m'enlèvera pas de l'esprit qu'il est très bizarre d'avoir [[:fr:Bugatti Type 30]] [[:uk:Bugatti Type 30]] d'un côté, et [[:de:Bugatti Type 30]] [[:sv:Bugatti Type 30]] de l'autre, d'autant plus qu'il n'y a aucun conflit d'interwiki potentiel entre les deux. En l'absence de renommage des articles, ça indique une forte présomption que tous ces articles parlent... de la même chose. Ces items ont déjà été fusionnés par le passé, et le seront à mon avis à nouveau à l'avenir par d'autres contributeurs. Pourquoi ne pas avoir un item intitulé "Type 30" qui couvre toute la série, à l'image de ''de'' et ''sv''? [[User:Place Clichy|Place Clichy]] ([[User talk:Place Clichy|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 08:59, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
:::::: {{ping|Place Clichy}} Salut, malheureusement on n'a pas le contrôle sur les titre et les contenus des articles des différentes WP.  Certaines, comme fr et uk, ont créé des articles pour [https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Q17308668 chaque modèle] et si pour certaines "Type 30" représente la série, pour d'autres ce n'est qu'un modèle.  La seule solution viable est d'avoir un item Wikidata pour chaque concept (donc un pour la série et un pour chaque modèle) et d'y lier les WP selon leur contenu.  Et il faut bien que les labels WP se distinguent clairement, donc "Bugatti Type 30" pour l'item de la série est à proscrire selon moi.  Si tu tiens à ce que les liens inter-langue WP interrelient les articles spécifiques même dans les wikis avec une série, on peut lier les raccourcis WP, comme je viens de le faire pour la wikipedia allemande du {{Q|2927703}} (mais c'est un peu laborieux).  Quant à éviter les fusions bien intentionnées, je ne peux que surveiller les items... en attendant que les WP allemande et suédoise se trouvent des titres d'article décrivant mieux leur contenus :) Je ne vois pas d'autre solution qui tienne la route. '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 13:00, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

== More careful merges ==

Salut Sisyph, I noticed that you made multiple merges of items that have similar names but that represented different concepts, even some that were referring to each other -- thus they refer to themselves after the merge (BTW such incorrect merges are automatically commented with "(Tag: self-referencing)", have a look at your own history of contributions...)  If you want to do item merges, it is your responsibility to ensure consistency of statements on the resulting item.  More specifically, you merged {{Q|17450149}} into {{Q|3194404}}, bringing a merged item that was at the same time a person and a murder case - these are two different concepts, automation tools like the [http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?q=Q3194404&lang=en Reasonator] could not use it.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 14:26, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
:Hello, I hesitated before merging these two articles. Finally I did it because :
:* [[:en:Kayla Rolland]] is a redirect to [[:en:Shooting of Kayla Rolland]]
:* [[:en:Shooting of Kayla Rolland]] is not only a concept of criminal case, but also categorize as a person (1993 births => I guess a criminal case has no birth year, but it might be a standard on en.wp)
:* I have already seen interlanguages between 'Person' and 'Affair', like [[:fr:Kip Kinkel]] and [[:fr:Thurston High School shooting]]. (true also for muscian/band)
:Anyway, I take into account your correction and I will not modify it. I didn't know about [http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?q=Q3194404&lang=en Reasonator]. Thanks for the link. --[[User talk:Sisyph|Sisyph]] 17:01, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
::{{ping|Sisyph}} WP articles quite commonly mix concepts, and it may be justified in an encyclopedic text, but it does render categorization and computerized handling fairly difficult - such as a murder being categorized in a "1993 birth" set.  Since Wikidata is primarily meant to support foreign data queries, I believe it needs to keep concepts separate, as much as can be.  Thanks for leaving items separate, anyhow.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:10, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

== sorry ==

I'm a Korean user. because of beginner about Wiki, I am trying many this time. I don't understand my doing about Wiki. I ask your pardon. I'm so sorry, repeatedly.--[[User:Gardenmania|Gardenmania]] ([[User talk:Gardenmania|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 16:28, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

== Manoir Boucher-De Niverville ==

Par rapport à ta modificaton de {{Q|3286114}}‎ ;J'ignorais qie les trègle typographique de l'anglais avait changer, il me semble le générique et le spécifique sont en majuscule en anglais. --[[User:Fralambert|Fralambert]] ([[User talk:Fralambert|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:43, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Fralambert}} T'as bien raison, je me pensais en français faut croire ;)  J'espère que tu es d'accord avec mes autres modifs sur ces deux items, ça me semblait approprié.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 00:40, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
:: En fait ça me faisait pensé plus à du suédois :p. À part {{P|31}} que j'ai changé, ça me semble correct. Il faut dire que c'est pas une notion courante en patrimoine, je ne l'ai vu qu'en France et en Wallonie sous le titre de «zone de protection» [http://lampspw.wallonie.be/dgo4/site_thema/index.php?details=52011-CLT-0102-01&thema=bc_pat]. Je l'ai appliqué à {{Q|18145349}}. --[[User:Fralambert|Fralambert]] ([[User talk:Fralambert|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 01:15, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

== motto ==

Please specify the difference between {{P|1451}} and {{P|1546}}. May be it's duplicate? --[[User:Александр Сигачёв|Alexander Sigachov]] ([[User talk:Александр Сигачёв|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 11:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Александр Сигачёв}}  I clarified on the [[Property talk:P1546|property talk page]].  Thanks for your interest.  '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 02:12, 30 September 2014 (UTC)
:: Thank you --[[User:Александр Сигачёв|Alexander Sigachov]] ([[User talk:Александр Сигачёв|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 09:25, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

== P1080 and P1441 ==

Please, do not add P:1080 with fictional works [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q6014676&diff=168094497&oldid=168094376 like in this]. {{P|1080}} should be used with fictional universes (see the constraints and the talk page). It's {{P|1441}} that should be used for indicate in which work the item appears. [https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q6014676&diff=169085145&oldid=168094497 I corrected it] but I would appreciate if you are more careful next time. Many thanks! --[[User:Harmonia Amanda|Harmonia Amanda]] ([[User talk:Harmonia Amanda|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 23:58, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Harmonia Amanda}} Didn't know about {{P|1441}}, thanks for letting me know!  -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:37, 29 October 2014 (UTC)

== Two unique properties ==

[https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q172549&diff=170055127&oldid=169894468 "So one person has two fathers"]. It happens that there are several sources with different relations. Especially for less popular mythological figures. --[[User:Infovarius|Infovarius]] ([[User talk:Infovarius|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:02, 8 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Infovarius}} Agree with you but not in this case, according to [[fr:Éole]]: it clearly distinguishes three mythical personas, and you were merging two of them.  Your call, but according to that article they are 
:* {{Q|406388}}, son of {{Q|336428}}
:* {{Q|13408427}}, son of {{Q|41127}}
:* {{Q|172549}}. son of {{Q|2642842}}
: -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 00:07, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

== Suoki ==

Hello Laddo. You have to undid my revision: https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q18329741&oldid=172415350 . Why? Only {{Q|215627}} can be {{P|54}}. Suoki is a {{Q|386208}}. [[User:Nurni|Nurni]] ([[User talk:Nurni|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 07:28, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{reply to|Nurni}}  Hi, thanks for asking.  I have two good reasons to revert your change:
:a) you should '''''never ever ever''''' delete valuable information; if ''the form'' used to store that information is not correct (e.g. violates a constraint), fix the form but do not loose the information;
:b) sports team mascots are typically assigned player numbers (like 0 or 00), often wear team uniforms and so on.  They are not {{Q|5}} but they are {{Q|215627}}, the same way as any {{Q|95074}} is a {{Q|215627}}.  A "person" is more general than a "human", and the constraint does not require "humans", but more generally "persons".
:The solution to resolve the constraint violation is to give {{Q|386208}} the type {{Q|215627}}.  Since in some cases mascots can be objects, I will have to create a more general class to handle this case.  Hold on. -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 13:53, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

== Marine traffic ==

{{P|1623}} and {{P|1624}} are ready. --[[User:Tobias1984|Tobias1984]] ([[User talk:Tobias1984|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 11:58, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

== Short name? ==

Why do you add {{P|743}} to ship classes that should be applied to the lead ship of the class? Also, you do not add the qualifier {{P|407}}. /[[User:Esquilo|ℇsquilo]] 09:43, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Esquilo}} I did that after a long discussion at [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships#Fall_back_on_Wikidata_for_Ship_class]]; to summarize, some WP contributors wanted to import just the short name of ship classes, re formatting issues.  These short names could, in the future, be imported in WP Ship infoboxes using with <code><nowiki>{{#property:short name|of={{#property:ship class}}}}</nowiki></code> once [[Wikidata:Development_plan#Access_to_data_from_arbitrary_items]] is deployed (this syntax borrowed from [[:mw:Wikibase/Notes/Inclusion syntax]]).
:In many cases the "short name" of the ship class is not the name of a lead ship, ''e.g.'' {{Q|1138200}} or {{Q|11602436}}.  The requirement is to provide the short name of the ship class, not that of some ship.
:I may add a language qualifier, but... please give me some details.  For now, {{P|743}} is a string (same for all languages, right?)  I wonder: if it becomes a monolingual string as proposed at [[Wikidata:Properties_for_deletion#Datatype_change:_short_name_.28P743.29]], will it still be visible from the <code>#property</code> parser function if the target WP has a different language?
:-- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 01:00, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
::OK I just tested and enwp does successfully import French monolingual property values.  Will add language qualifier, then.  -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 01:25, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:::Thank you. Also, please use "XXX-class" or "XXX class" as shortname to avoid confusion with the lead ship. 
::::{{ping|Esquilo}} ?? such a change would defeat the purpose of using {{P|743}}.  See this excerpt from [[:en:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships#Fall_back_on_Wikidata_for_Ship_class|the WP discussion that I referred to above]]: ''"The class name may be the name of a ship in the class (often the lead ship), in which case the class name is italicized, or it may be named on some common theme, trees, flowers, Shakespeare plays, etc., in which case the class name is not italicized. (...) the string (...) should be ''"''Benjamin Franklin''-class submarine"''."''   To achieve such formatting, the short name '''must''' exclude suffix "class" and the like.  I fail to see how anyone could confuse a ship and a ship class because they have the same {{P|743}}, unless the user manages to disregard all other properties of an item that he/she is retrieving data from.  -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:22, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:::I am glad to see that you have recognised that the class is not always named after the lead ship. I got the opposite impression from your edits. Regarding the language; Soviet/Russian ship classes are refered to by their project-name in many languages (like {{Q|1359363}} is refered to as "Atlant-class" or "Project 1164 class"). Perhaps it is better to use {{P|561}} instead? /[[User:Esquilo|ℇsquilo]] 07:57, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
:::: I agree with the switch to monolingual type, which will allow supporting multiple designations for the same ship class, depending on language; while adding qualifiers, I tried to select the language that best fit those WPs that were actually linking to each item.
:::: {{P|561}} seems to have a totally different scope, and I don't think it can be used as a substitute for the ship class short name.  From the few items that I checked, it seems to provide the short name+class suffix that you suggested above (''e.g. {{Q|1790239}}==>"Kanin-class"). -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 22:22, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

== {{P|1628}} ==

Hi! I believe we should use {{P|1628}} to link to the URI of the equivalent property, not to a description of it. I've opened [[Property_talk:P1628#Link_to_properties_URIs|a new thread on its discussion page]]. [[User:Tpt|Tpt]] ([[User talk:Tpt|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 07:17, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

== [[Property:P646]] ==

[[MediaWiki:Gadget-AuthorityControl.js]] and [[Property:P1630]] supports protocol relative weblinks. Do you have problems with these URLs? ([[Special:Diff/183627001|diff]]) --[[User:Fomafix|Fomafix]] ([[User talk:Fomafix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 18:15, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
:{{ping|Fomafix}} {{P|646}} was listed as a violation [[Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations/P1630#Format|here]], obviously because of the <code><nowiki>https?:</nowiki></code> in the {{tl|Constraint:Format}} on [[Property_talk:P1630]].
:IMO, we should not allow both schemes; either we replace all "<code>https?://</code>" (including the pair of slashes) and adjust the constraint, or we stick to existing scheme.  Supporting multiple formats complexifies any tool trying to use that property. -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 19:21, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
:: The constraint rule can be easily extended. Are there problems with protocol relative links? Wikidata supports HTTP and HTTPS and Freebase supports HTTP and HTTPS. With protocol relative links you stay on the same protocol. --[[User:Fomafix|Fomafix]] ([[User talk:Fomafix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 19:48, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
::: {{ping|Fomafix}} Your call.  This should be at least stated on [[Property_talk:P1630]], and documentation be adjusted there.  -- '' [[User:Laddo|LaddΩ]]''  [[User_talk:Laddo|''<small>chat </small>'';)]] 20:23, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
:::: I fixed the constraint rules. --[[User:Fomafix|Fomafix]] ([[User talk:Fomafix|<span class="signature-talk">{{int:Talkpagelinktext}}</span>]]) 20:35, 25 December 2014 (UTC)