User talk:Biotimes
Is a medication
[edit]Item like (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) cannot have instance of (P31)medication (Q12140), because it's describing a group of isomers. (R)-Oxybutynin, (S)-oxybutynin can have instance of (P31)medication (Q12140), mixture of both isomers can have such statement, but not an item about a group of isomers. Regards, Wostr (talk) 19:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Wostr:: This is good to be consistent. The Wikipedia page that links to (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) seems to be discussing the medication which is a mixture of the two isomers. This page is currently a subclass of (P279) medication (Q12140). What rules do you use to decide between instance of (P31) and subclass of (P279) for medication (Q12140) It looks like instance of (P31) outnumbers subclass of (P279) by 2833 to 120 for use with medication (Q12140)
--- Biotimes 20:00, 5 September 2019 (UTC)- Items having instance of (P31)group of isomeric entities (Q15711994) or one of its subclass like instance of (P31)group of stereoisomers (Q59199015) or instance of (P31)group of stereoisomers (Q55662747) are describing a group of chemical compounds (isomers), not a mixture of chemical compounds (isomers). By default chemical compounds without fully defined stereochemistry (i.e. at least one stereocenter is not defined) are categorised in WD as a group of compounds not as a compound.
- As an example (using (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) case), there may be at least 4 different items in WD:
- (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) with instance of (P31)group of isomeric entities (Q15711994) and subclass of (P279)chemical compound (Q11173) and subclass of (P279)medication (Q12140)
- (R)-oxybutynin (Q27122547) with instance of (P31)(RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) (that would be enough, because chemical compound (Q11173) and medication (Q12140) are inherited from (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922), but we keep statements like instance of (P31)chemical compound (Q11173), because the classification of all compounds in WD is not finished)
- Qxxx (about (S)-oxybutynin) with the same statements like in (R)-oxybutynin (Q27122547)
- Qyyy (about mixture of (S)-oxybutynin and (R)-oxybutynin) with instance of (P31)enantiomers mixture (Q1339942) and has part(s) (P527)(R)-oxybutynin (Q27122547) + has part(s) (P527)Qxxx
- (R)-oxybutynin (Q27122547), Qxxx and Qyyy are instances of a chemical compound/mixture = can be instances of medication (Q12140). (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) is an instance of a group of isomers = it can be a subclass of medication (Q12140), not an instance (= it is not a drug, instance of this group can be a drug). Wostr (talk) 21:22, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- PS It's not about what outnumbers what. It is about each particular item = chemical compounds can be classified as an instances of a drug, group of compounds can be classified as a subclasses of a drug. It may be sometimes difficult, because Wikipedia articles describes two stereoisomers in one article or in many cases chemical compound having two or more isomers is said to be a drug (but it can't be, because compound with undefined stereochemistry does not exist; isomer A, isomer B, isomer C, mixture of different isomers in different proportions can be used as drugs). Wostr (talk) 21:28, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Wostr:: Thank you for the expanded explanation. That was very helpful. I think I will plan to make the suggested pages so that there is a mixture page. I would then move/copy many of the claims from (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) over to the mixture item or the two isomer pages. I think the Wikipedia page should also link to the mixture and not to (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) as it is describing the medication. Thoughts?
--- Biotimes 19:21, 6 September 2019 (UTC)- The problem with Wikipedia links is more complex, because in some Wikipedias data is imported from Wikidata to Wikipedia and you can't move identifiers like InChI or CAS number to the mixture item. What's more, Wikipedia article in such situations usually describes both stereoisomers and its mixture. This problem is probably unsolvable at this stage. Wostr (talk) 13:35, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
- @Wostr:: Thank you for the expanded explanation. That was very helpful. I think I will plan to make the suggested pages so that there is a mixture page. I would then move/copy many of the claims from (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) over to the mixture item or the two isomer pages. I think the Wikipedia page should also link to the mixture and not to (RS)-oxybutynin (Q1060922) as it is describing the medication. Thoughts?