Jump to content

Talk:Slash (punctuation): Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
Webwyre (talk | contribs)
11 edits
No edit summary
 
(180 intermediate revisions by 84 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{WikiProject Typography|class=C|importance=low}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=

{{WikiProject Typography|importance=high}}
==Plural?==
}}
What's the plural of solidus? Solidii (like the coin)? Solidi [http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary/solidus]. [[User:Primetime|Primetime]] 17:48, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
{{User:MiszaBot/config

| algo = old(365d)
:The plural is 'solidi' – whether for the marks or for the coins whose value they represent. [[User:The Font|Grant]] ([[User talk:The Font|talk]]) 17:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
| archive = Talk:Slash (punctuation)/Archive %(counter)d

| counter = 1
| maxarchivesize = 125K
| archiveheader = {{Automatic archive navigator}}
| minthreadstoarchive = 1
| minthreadsleft = 5
}}
{{Broken anchors|links=
* <nowiki>[[He (pronoun)#Generic pronoun|masculine]]</nowiki> The anchor (#Generic pronoun) [[Special:Diff/1013418960|has been deleted]]. <!-- {"title":"Generic pronoun","appear":{"revid":857281474,"parentid":857280326,"timestamp":"2018-08-30T18:40:05Z","removed_section_titles":["Gender neutral"],"added_section_titles":["Generic pronoun"]},"disappear":{"revid":1013418960,"parentid":1008712338,"timestamp":"2021-03-21T14:51:31Z","removed_section_titles":["Old English","Middle English","Usage","Original and modern scope","Generic pronoun","Other"],"added_section_titles":["Morphology","CITEREFHuddlestonPullum2002","CITEREF1999","CITEREF1992","Gender","CITEREFLocker2019","Capitalization","Syntax","CITEREFHuddlestonPullum2002","Semantics","Generic"]}} -->
}}
== Slashification ==
== Slashification ==

Why is the Solidus slashified? In the moment there are inconsistencies all around due to this change. [[User:Pjacobi|Pjacobi]] 19:22, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Why is the Solidus slashified? In the moment there are inconsistencies all around due to this change. [[User:Pjacobi|Pjacobi]] 19:22, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
:See [[Talk:Solidus]]. All links to [[solidus]] should be fixed now to point to [[slash (punctuation)]] [[User:Nohat|Nohat]] 19:42, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC)


==Date range==
See [[Talk:Solidus]]. All links to [[solidus]] should be fixed now to point to [[slash (punctuation)]] [[User:Nohat|Nohat]] 19:42, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC)

"Contrariwise, the form with a hyphen, 7-8 May, would refer to the two-day period"&mdash;do you really really mean hyphen (in which case, please explain why), or did you confuse it with en dash? [[User:Kwantus|Kwantus]] 2005 June 28 14:33 (UTC)
"Contrariwise, the form with a hyphen, 7-8 May, would refer to the two-day period"&mdash;do you really really mean hyphen (in which case, please explain why), or did you confuse it with en dash? [[User:Kwantus|Kwantus]] 2005 June 28 14:33 (UTC)
:Well, with a typewriter there's only the hyphen, so that's what I wrote. All right, I don't know whether typographers would use an en dash. So wouldn't someone find out? --[[User:Sobolewski|Sobolewski]] 17:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

::According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#En_dash, en-dash is used to indicate a closed range.
Well, with a typewriter there's only the hyphen, so that's what I wrote. All right, I don't know whether typographers would use an en dash. So wouldn't someone find out? --[[User:Sobolewski|Sobolewski]] 17:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
:::They're ''both'' used to indicate closed ranges, en dash in more considered contexts and the hyphen informally.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User talk:LlywelynII|<span class="texhtml" style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;">Llywelyn<span style="color:gold;">II</span></span>]] 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

:::@[[User:LlywelynII|LlywelynII]] [[Special:Contributions/5.116.98.247|5.116.98.247]] ([[User talk:5.116.98.247|talk]]) 22:33, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#En_dash, en-dash is used to indicate a closed range.
:'''Bold''' [[Special:Contributions/2001:D08:1A05:496E:1:0:7AB1:A34E|2001:D08:1A05:496E:1:0:7AB1:A34E]] ([[User talk:2001:D08:1A05:496E:1:0:7AB1:A34E|talk]]) 12:22, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

== Banned and/or ==

I don't know the details, but this anecdotal reference implies that the use of and/or was banned outright in the state, when much more likely it was banned for internal uses by the governing body in legislation, etc. Snopes.com anyone? [[User:70.145.102.253|70.145.102.253]] 06:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

== Solidus vs Virgule in Programming ==

The programming section claims that the solidus is used in programming in a variety of ways, but the english section explains that what we have on the keyboard is really a virgule. But then, the ISO character standards with which I'm familiar also refer to the keyboard character '/' as a "solidus". So, which is it, or are we doomed by the poor input devices of the time to lose this distinction?


== British usage? ==
== British usage? ==

'In the UK, the usual term for the mark is an oblique'. I have lived in Britain all my life and never heard this term. Any opinions?[[User:Rossheth|Rossheth]]
'In the UK, the usual term for the mark is an oblique'. I have lived in Britain all my life and never heard this term. Any opinions?[[User:Rossheth|Rossheth]]
:I have lived in Britain my whole life and I have never heard of this term before. I'll just go and remove it, as it is clearly not at all widely used. [[User:EdNeave|Ed]] 17:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
::I don't think you are right. I used to take credit card payments on the 'phone and 'oblique' (as in a mark at 45 degrees angle0was certainly used by some. Anecdotally I'd say it was an older demographic. Others used 'stroke'.
:::Yeah, isn’t the usual term ''stroke''? (That f*cked me up when I was watching “Brazil.”) Shouldn’t that be in the first sentence (moreso than ''[[obelus|division sign]]'').
::::Whatever; f*ck it. I’m [[Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]]. [[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Wiki Wikardo]] 18:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I concur. I've been here all my life and it was always called a 'stroke' before the internet. Now it seems that the usual blind obedience of calling it a slash - particularly a 'forward slash' - is rife. I suspect it's just another Americanism that's seeped into the language.
::::::Now, now. I do understand, but American English has also changed a LOT since I was a kid. It's a changing language. England gave away the right to control the language when they spread it around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries. And it is a growing, changing language everywhere, not just in America or just in England. In fact, I've read that the majority of English speakers in the world will soon speak a dialect that Brits and Americans can barely understand.
::::::But I think calling it a "slash" isn't really so much of an Americanism as it is a contribution from a different culture: that of computer programmers - many from England and Australia though yes, most from America. I was around not in the earliest days of programming, but early enough that it was still a very tight society. Programmers came into it through a mathematics background where that "/" sign is used for division. They did not usually come up through a fine arts background where they might have delved deeply into the esoterica of the English language. They had a limited number of keys on the keyboard and needed to use many of the symbol keys not only for their conventional purposes, but for control purposes as well. Calling it a "division sign" would be too cumbersome, so they came up with a description that could be uttered in a single, efficient, syllable: "slash". (It might also shock you to learn that the exclamation point was called a "bang" for the same reason, the asterisk was known as the "splat", etc.) I doubt very much that the people who originated these descriptors had any idea that they would one day propagate out into the mainstream world. You can thank, or curse, Tim Berners-Lee for that. [[User:FatBear1|FatBear1]] ([[User talk:FatBear1|talk]]) 17:15, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
::::::OK, now I’m watching “[[Brazil (film)|Brazil]]” again, and I’m confused. A “stroke” isn’t a [[dash]]? —[[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Hey, Wiki]]
:::::::It can be but in present British English usually isn't.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User talk:LlywelynII|<span class="texhtml" style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;">Llywelyn<span style="color:gold;">II</span></span>]] 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
:That gloss was true for the 18th century and ''oblique stroke'' is where ''stroke'' came from... but, yeah, you're right that it's not true any more.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User talk:LlywelynII|<span class="texhtml" style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;">Llywelyn<span style="color:gold;">II</span></span>]] 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)


== Why additional unrelated punctuation ==


There is a large column containing a plethora of Punctuation symbols , word dividers, general typography etc.
I have lived in Britain my whole life and I have never heard of this term before. I'll just go and remove it, as it is clearly not at all widely used. [[User:EdNeave|Ed]] 17:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Why is that there?

[[User:DGerman|DGerman]] ([[User talk:DGerman|talk]]) 15:48, 28 May 2017
:Yeah, isn’t the usual term ''stroke''? (That fucked me up when I was watching “Brazil.”) Shouldn’t that be in the first sentence (moreso than ''[[obelus|division sign]]'').
<!-- See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Slash_(punctuation)&diff=782693970&oldid=759723742 -->

:Whatever; fuck it. I’m [[Wikipedia:Be bold|being bold]]. [[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Wiki Wikardo]] 18:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)



I concur. I've been here all my life and it was always called a 'stroke' before the internet. Now it seems that the usual blind obedience of calling it a slash - particularly a 'forward slash' - is rife. I suspect it's just another Americanism that's seeped into the language.

:OK, now I’m watching “[[Brazil (film)|Brazil]]” again, and I’m confused. A “stroke” isn’t a [[dash]]? —[[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Hey, Wiki]]

=== Evidence from the Oxford English Dictionary ===

People in Britain (as elsewhere) use a surprising variety of terms for these marks.
Below are extracts from OED entries for some of these, set out in chronological order of first citation.
<blockquote>
'''virgule''' A thin sloping or upright line (/, |) occurring in
mediaeval MSS. as a mark for the caesura or as a punctuation-mark (frequently with the same value as the modern comma).
Now also in more general use with various functions (see
quots.).
<blockquote>
''1837'' HALLAM Hist. Lit. I. viii. §26 In the manuscripts
of Chaucer, the line is always broken by a caesura in the
middle, which is pointed out by a virgule. ''1946'' G.
STIMPSON Bk. about Thousand Things 487 The technical name
of the short slanting stroke between and and or in the
device is virgule.
</blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''stroke''' In Telegraphy, the name of the signal for an oblique
stroke. Now usu. colloq., a spoken representation of a
solidus. Freq. used as conj. to indicate or stress
alternatives: or else, alternatively.

<blockquote>
''1884'' W. LYND Pract. Telegraphist i. 27 The oblique stroke
is to be signalled ‘stroke’, thus—‘FI three stroke five
FF’, meaning 3/5 (three shillings and fivepence). ''1965'' M.
ALLINGHAM Mind Readers xv. 153, I have my own feel, of
course, which would be ‘glad stroke laughingat’ in his
case.

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''shilling mark''' Typogr. = SOLIDUS

<blockquote>
''1888'' C. T. JACOBI Printers' Vocabulary 123 *Shilling mark,
the sign thus / which was used in old books as a ‘scratch
comma’. ''1904'' MURRAY & BRADLEY Hart's Rules for Compositors
(ed. 15) 29 The diagonal sign / or ‘shilling-mark’.

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''solidus''' A sloping line used to separate shillings from pence,
as 12/6, in writing fractions, and for other separations of
figures and letters; a shilling-mark.

<blockquote>
''1891'' in Cent. Dict. ''1898'' G. CHRYSTAL Introd. Algebra i.
(1902) 3 The symbols / (solidus notation) and : (ratio
notation) are equivalent to ÷. ''1923'' N. SHAW Forecasting
Weather i. 35 A solidus (/) such as occurs in the
combination ‘bc/r’ …

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''slash''' A thin sloping line, thus /

<blockquote>
''1961'' in WEBSTER. ''1964'' Amer. Speech XXXIX. 103 The number
to the right of the slash is the total number of
occurrences of that type of clause.

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
'''oblique''' (Typogr.) a solidus or slash

<blockquote>
''1965'' W. S. ALLEN Vox Latina 9 Phonemic symbols..are
conventionally set between obliques, e.g. /t/

</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Note that although ''virgule'' is listed first, its original use is a
somewhat technical one, and the first citation in our sense is from
1946. (In any case, the 1946 quotation looks slightly odd, being a
definition rather than an actual use of the term.)

''Stroke'', too, has an original technical sense, although the 1884
quotation does seem to describe the telegraphist’s stroke signal in
terms of a previously understood ‘oblique stroke’. Its (much) later
use in our sense is characterised by the OED as colloquial.

Also from the 1960s, we have both ''slash'' and ''oblique''. ''Slash'' is, of course,
extremely widely used in computing circles, although the
popularisation of the World Wide Web coupled with the widespread use
of the backslash (especially on DOS/Windows machines) has led (as far as I can see) to the frequent use of the unnecessary and, in my view, ugly disambiguation/back-formation ‘forward slash’ in spelling out URIs. (Incidentally, the term
''backslash'' itself dates from 1982, according to the OED. But given that
the character existed in the 1963 ASCII character set, it must have
been called something in the intervening 19 years!)

The two best candidates for the oldest name for / are therefore
''shilling mark'' and ''solidus'' (which are etymologically related). There’s
not much to choose between the OED’s first citations of these two
terms, but note that the supporting quotations for solidus are (with
the possible exception of the 1891 dictionary definition) all in
mathematical contexts until 1923. Therefore it looks as though the
1904 ''shilling mark'' may be the oldest identifiable reference to the
symbol that we know and love (at least according to the OED).

However, antiquity is no guide to modern usage (and I have never heard ‘shilling mark’ used in this context anyway!). As a UK-based copy-editor and technical writer,
I tend to use ''slash''. But I have often come across ''stroke'', ''oblique'', ''solidus'' and other terms
in British usage.

Note that the OED offers no evidence of a distinction between any of these terms along the lines of that suggested for ''slash'' and ''solidus'' here. Apart from technical uses such as referring to particular Unicode characters (which have established names, for better or worse), it is perhaps inadvisable to try to make a distinction where none actually exists in the language at present.

--[[User:Axnicho|Axnicho]] ([[User talk:Axnicho|talk]]) 10:21, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

== Whack Whack ==

I don't believe this is correct. The origin of "Whack" was an alternate name for back-slash, as opposed to saying back-slash. Why come up with an alternate name that isn't easier to say for slash?[[User:_michfreak|_mich]]

Yes, I've heard "whack" used in UNC paths (pronouncing \\server\share as "whack whack server whack share"), but I've never heard it used after the protocol in a URL. 2006-06-20

- I have heard 'whack' used to refer to both a forward-slash and a back-slash, depending on the context. Usage seems to vary regionally. I never heard the term when working at any Australian companies but at Microsoft it seemed common. 2008-06-24, 125.25.14.23

== Unicode slash in dates? ==

What Unicode code is appropriate for slashes in dates? Are they solidi or virguli?

== Name ==

There's a name at the bottom of the page. It should be removed

== Pre-decimal currency ==

"N.B. The raised-dot · or interpunct separating the units" ... "even a single dash"<br />. Azz i remember it, the units were separated with colons, so : £1:19:11.
Froggo_Zijgeb 03`11`2006_21:59.

== Solidus distinction ==

It says that there's is a distinction, but doesn't explain it. Any ideas?
[[User:72.226.151.143|72.226.151.143]] 20:35, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

== technical issue ==

Hi. I searched for [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/\ \], yet it said "redirected from [[/]]". The article said something about technical limits and / . It didn't say anything about \ . Shouldn't we have an article on \ , too? Why is \ redirected from / ? Uh oh. When I tried to write "<nowiki>redirected from [[/]]</nowiki>", it linked to a red link from this page. Looks like there's another issue: anything with a link involving / links to a subpage of the page of the page that you're on. Another technical issue! Why does this happen? Thanks. ~<font color="blue">[[User:AstroHurricane001/A|A]][[User:AstroHurricane001|H]][[User:AstroHurricane001/D|1]]</font><sup>([[User:AstroHurricane001/T|T]][[Special:Contributions/AstroHurricane001|C]][[User:AstroHurricane001/U|U]])</sup> 01:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

== Consistency: slash vs virgule ==

The body of this article uses both "slash" and "virgule" to talk about this mark. Consistency would be nice. Furthermore, the end of the article, [[Slash (punctuation)#Alternative names|Alternative names]], says the term virgule is "rare."

Also, as an aside, as long as the Chicago Manual of Style confounds slash and solidus (I only have the 13th edition, so maybe it has been cleared up in later editions), I'm not sure I believe the hard distinction we make here and in [[solidus]]. --[[User:Ishi Gustaedr|Ishi Gustaedr]] ([[User talk:Ishi Gustaedr|talk]]) 16:44, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
: ''[[Elements of Typographic Style]]'' makes a distinction. If I recall, it doesn't use "slash" but uses solidus and virgule to refer to "/" and "⁄"—I forget which was which. (That's a standard forward slash and a fraction slash.) [[User:BenFrantzDale|—Ben FrantzDale]] ([[User talk:BenFrantzDale|talk]]) 00:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

== Forward slash ==

There is no such thing as a forward slash. This is a SLASH: /<br />
Obviousy if you push it FORWARD it would be an underscore.<br />
<br />
You cannot interchange the proper term "SLASH" with a modification of the term and have it mean the same thing. <br />
<br />
This is the problem with these "public intelligence" sites. There is no basis for truth, and very little intelligence.<br />
People believing this nonsense is what makes I.T. educators have a difficult time reversing the nonsense.<br /><br /><small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Jetranger Pilot|Jetranger Pilot]] ([[User talk:Jetranger Pilot|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jetranger Pilot|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== Need to pick a region. US or UK? ==

A single wiki page should use either US or UK English. For example I see both "specialized" and "specialised" on the same page. Also the Date section should be cleaned up. It makes statements that are true only relative to one region; they should be rephrased to specify the context better.

== / used for "per" ==

There's no mention I don't think of the slash being used to represent per, as in 100 km/h -- one hundred kilometers per hour. See point 3 on this page for more examples http://www.englishclub.com/writing/punctuation-slash.htm <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.31.245.128|86.31.245.128]] ([[User talk:86.31.245.128|talk]]) 14:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Oxford reference ==

There are a lot of refs to a non-existent Oxford page. I sent some email to their question line and got a nice response but it now looks like the info is behind a paywall. Anyway here is the response, maybe somebody knows what to do to get an actual reference out of this:

Thank you for contacting Oxford.

Our AskOxford website has been reinvented as Oxford Dictionaries Online (www.oxforddictionaries.com). Although we continue to have many FAQs (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/page/asktheexperts) on ODO, I'm afraid we do not have the specific page that you refer to.

Perhaps you will find the following information useful. It is taken from New Hart's Rules, which is available on our subscription-only premium version of Oxford Dictionaries Online. (I hope this answers your query. Kind regards, Katy Pearce, Oxford Dictionaries)

(note that the following text is almost certainly © by Oxford Dictionaries!) [[User:Spitzak|Spitzak]] ([[User talk:Spitzak|talk]]) 16:33, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

====4.13.1 Solidus====

The solidus (/, plural ''solidi'') is known by many terms, such as the '''slash''' or '''forward slash, stroke, oblique, virgule, diagonal''', and '''shilling mark'''. It is in general used to express a relationship between two or more things. The most common use of the solidus is as a shorthand to denote alternatives, as in ''either/or, his/her, on/off, the New York/New Jersey/Connecticut area'' (the area of either New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut, rather than their combined area), ''s/he'' (she or he). The solidus is generally closed up, both when separating two complete words (''and/or'') and between parts of a word (''s/he'').

The symbol is sometimes misused to mean ''and'' rather than ''or'', and so it is normally best in text to spell out the alternatives explicitly in cases which could be misread (''his or her; the New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut area''). An en rule can sometimes substitute for a solidus, as in ''an on–off relationship'' or ''the New York–New Jersey–Connecticut area''. In addition to indicating alternatives, the solidus is used in other ways:

* to form part of certain abbreviations, such as ''a/c'' (account), ''c/o'' (care of), ''n/a'' (not applicable), and ''24/7'' (twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week)

* to indicate line breaks when successive lines of poetry are run on as a single line, though Oxford traditionally prefers to use a vertical (|) instead

* to replace the en rule for a period of one year reckoned in a format other than the 1 January to 31 December calendar extent: ''49/8 bc, the fiscal year 2000/1''

* to separate the days, months, and years in dates: ''5/2/99''

* to separate elements in Internet addresses: http://www.oup.com/oeddicref.

In scientific and technical work the solidus is used to indicate ratios, as in ''miles/day, metres/second''. In computing it is called a '''forward slash''', to differentiate it from a '''backward slash, backslash''', or '''reverse solidus''' (\): each of these is used in different contexts as a separator.

== Merge proposal with Solidus revisited ==
For an earlier proposal, see [[Talk:Solidus (punctuation)#Merge into Slash]].

I want to reopen the discussion whether [[Solidus (punctuation)]] should be merged into [[Slash (punctuation)]].
''Pace'' the poet and typographer [[Robert Bringhurst]], who, in his ''[[The Elements of Typographic Style]]'', identifies the solidus with the fraction bar used to denote fractions with a raised numerator, and numerals in a smaller font size, as in <sup>3</sup><big>&#8260;</big><small>32</small>, distinguishing it from the virgule used in level fractions like 2π<small>&nbsp;</small>/<small>&nbsp;</small>3, the case for a strenuous distinction between slash and solidus as punctuation marks appears not to be so strong as it is made out to be in our articles ("two distinct symbols that traditionally have entirely different uses"; "long-established English typesetting terminology"). To start, Bringhurst ''also'' calls the solidus a "slash mark", but not as steep as the slash used for a virgule. So instead of loudly proclaiming "slash ≠ solidus", it is more reasonable to acknowledge that a font may have several "forward" slash marks, at different inclinations, which may serve different purposes.

Furthermore, respectable dictionaries generally do not make a distinction even between solidus and virgule, as can be seen at several places on this talk page: [[Talk:Slash (punctuation)#Evidence from the Oxford English Dictionary]]; [[Talk:Slash (punctuation)#4.13.1 Solidus]]. I might add that ''Collins English Dictionary'' and the ''Random House Dictionary'' agree. They all treat the words as synonyms. I see no evidence that the undeniable existence of distinguishable slanted strokes with different uses is reflected in a consistent and historically based distinction in terminology. In fact, [[Solidus (punctuation)#History|historically]] the solidus is the slash you see in [[:File:Alice par John Tenniel 38.png|this image]] of the [[Mad Hatter|Hatter]]'s hat, which does not look at all like a fraction bar.

Also typographers are not unequivocal. I refer to two books:
*{{cite book |title=Digital Typography: Practical Advice for Getting the Type You Want When You Want It |author=Ron Goldberg |publisher=Windsor Professional Information |year=2000 |isbn=1-893190-05-6}}
*{{cite book |title=The Complete Manual of Typography: a Guide to Setting Perfect Type |author=James Felici |publisher=Peachpit Press |year=2003 |isbn=0-321-12730-7}}
Goldberg is seemingly of two minds. On page 74, he writes:
:"You should use a solidus, found in the expert fonts, instead of a regular slash. A regular slash is not set at the correct angle to look right."
But in the Glossary at the end of the book we read on page 250:
:"'''Solidus'''&nbsp;&nbsp;A slanted line used to create fractions, or separate one type character from another. Also called a ''shilling, virgule, fraction bar,'' or ''slash.''"
Felici identifies the virgule/slash and solidus, while distinguishing them from the fraction bar. He writes (page 203):
:"The fraction bar varies from the virgule (or solidus, or slash) in several important ways."

All considered, I feel: that the two articles ought to be merged; that solidus, virgule and fraction bar all are slashes of which there are various kinds; that historically the virgule and the fraction bar are clearly different in use; and that usage differs even among experts in whether "solidus" is a synonym for virgule, or refers specifically to the fraction bar. The article could then also cover Unicode character 'DIVISION SLASH' (U+2215), which currently is not represented in Wikipedia. &nbsp;--[[User talk:Lambiam|Lambiam]] 11:47, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

:Yes, merge to one article that explains all the distinctions. [[User:Rothorpe|Rothorpe]] ([[User talk:Rothorpe|talk]]) 19:12, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Ironically, the plain slash has the name "solidus" in Unicode, but the article [[solidus (punctuation)]] describes actually two Unicode characters named "fraction ''slash''" and "division ''slash''". Although the Unicode standard has notoriously many character naming mistakes, the reversal indicates that these are synonymous and the distinction was made up by some Wikipedia users. Also, [http://www.decodeunicode.org/en/U+002F] states that it was "/", not fraction slash, used in Great Britain for shillings. Merge, of course. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 08:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

This proposal has been open for over a year now, I'm closing the proposal with no consensus. [[User:Gsingh|Gsingh]] ([[User talk:Gsingh|talk]]) 18:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
:<small> Agreed on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gsingh&diff=468820580 the personal talk page] that there was no valid reason to close this discussion. [[User:Incnis Mrsi|Incnis Mrsi]] ([[User talk:Incnis Mrsi|talk]]) 20:39, 31 December 2011 (UTC)</small>
::I think you should go ahead and merge the article, its been open for 8 months and all options support the merger.[[User:Gsingh|Gsingh]] ([[User talk:Gsingh|talk]]) 20:41, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

== Use at the end of blog comments and forum posts to indicate something about speaker, or parenthetically, or as a kind of tag ==


== Slash: history of the word ==
As in:
Heh, BONE of contention


In the History section, the article currently reads
/imthirteensometimes
{{blockquote|
The name "slash" is a recent development, first attested in [[American English]] {{circa|lk=no|1961}},<ref name=":0">"slash, n.1". OED Online. December 2020. Oxford University Press. <nowiki>https://www-oed-com.library.access.arlingtonva.us/view/Entry/181388?rskey=kGzdlw&result=1&isAdvanced=false</nowiki> (accessed February 14, 2021).</ref> but has gained wide currency through its use in [[#Computing|computing]], a context where it is sometimes even used in British English in preference to the usual name "stroke".
}}
Can anyone verify that against the "long" OED? Because the only reference in ''New Oxford American Dictionary (3 ed.)'' entry for "Slash" accessed via the Wikipedia Library says:
{{blockquote|
'''2'''. an oblique stroke (/) in print or writing, used between alternatives (e.g., and/or), in fractions (e.g., 3/4), in ratios (e.g., miles/day), or between separate elements of a text. <br />
■ [usually as modifier] a genre of fiction, published chiefly in fanzines or online, in which characters who appear together in movies, television, or other popular media are portrayed as having a sexual (especially homosexual) relationship.<br />
[1980s: from the use of an oblique stroke to link adjoining names or initials (as in Kirk/Spock and K/S. ] <br />
[ ... ]<br />
– {{sc|origin}} late Middle English: perhaps imitative, or from Old French {{lang|fr|esclachier}} "break in pieces". The noun dates from the late 16th century.<ref>https://www-oxfordreference-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/view/10.1093/acref/9780195392883.001.0001/m_en_us1291295?rskey=5Cn7US&result=4 </ref>.


Comments? [[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 20:30, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
Or:
Ryan Gosling! In a cop car! With handcuffs on!


{{Re|John Maynard Friedman}} The online full OED says "{{tq|1=5. A thin sloping line, thus /; = oblique n. 4, solidus n.1 2. U.S. Also slash-mark.}}" The list of examples starts with 1961, but here we have a common error: the OED does not claim to know the earliest use of a word! Incidentally the 1961 citation is to Webster's 3rd New Internat. Dict. Eng. Lang., so that could be a place to look for further information. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 05:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
/Walks away from computer


[https://www.google.com/books/edition/Technical_Report_Series/KE0YAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0&bsq=%22slash%20character%22 This technical report ca 1950] has it. And [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Signal_Communication_for_Engineer_Units/epKmOnv1OnUC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22followed+by+a+slash%22&pg=PA163 this 1949 military signals manual]. And [https://www.google.com/books/edition/Station_Paper/BgrxAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22followed+by+a+slash%22 this 1947 manual]. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]<sup><small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small></sup> 06:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
:Thank you. TBF, the current text does say "earliest attested". TBH, what drew my attention to the current citation is that it looks amateurish and thought surely we can do better than that. I'll try later on to see if I can a form of words to cite the 1947 manual without a [[WP:OR]] vio. --[[User:John Maynard Friedman|𝕁𝕄𝔽]] ([[User talk:John Maynard Friedman|talk]]) 14:44, 5 December 2022 (UTC)


{{reflist talk}}
This convention is fairly new to me (seen it a lot on Gawker.com), and I'm curious about its history. Anyone have anything? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/67.164.46.122|67.164.46.122]] ([[User talk:67.164.46.122|talk]]) 03:42, 4 December 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


[[,]] [[Special:Contributions/36.37.152.147|36.37.152.147]] ([[User talk:36.37.152.147|talk]]) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
I've been under the impression this is inspired by BBcode and HTML closing tags, implying that the previous statement was under some sort of tag. E.g. "Oh, I'm an enormous fan or being waterboarded! /sarcasm", where "/sarcasm" is implying that there were sarcasm "tags" around the statement made.

Latest revision as of 16:23, 1 November 2024

Slashification

[edit]

Why is the Solidus slashified? In the moment there are inconsistencies all around due to this change. Pjacobi 19:22, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

See Talk:Solidus. All links to solidus should be fixed now to point to slash (punctuation) Nohat 19:42, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC)

Date range

[edit]

"Contrariwise, the form with a hyphen, 7-8 May, would refer to the two-day period"—do you really really mean hyphen (in which case, please explain why), or did you confuse it with en dash? Kwantus 2005 June 28 14:33 (UTC)

Well, with a typewriter there's only the hyphen, so that's what I wrote. All right, I don't know whether typographers would use an en dash. So wouldn't someone find out? --Sobolewski 17:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#En_dash, en-dash is used to indicate a closed range.
They're both used to indicate closed ranges, en dash in more considered contexts and the hyphen informally. — LlywelynII 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@LlywelynII 5.116.98.247 (talk) 22:33, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Bold 2001:D08:1A05:496E:1:0:7AB1:A34E (talk) 12:22, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

British usage?

[edit]

'In the UK, the usual term for the mark is an oblique'. I have lived in Britain all my life and never heard this term. Any opinions?Rossheth

I have lived in Britain my whole life and I have never heard of this term before. I'll just go and remove it, as it is clearly not at all widely used. Ed 17:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you are right. I used to take credit card payments on the 'phone and 'oblique' (as in a mark at 45 degrees angle0was certainly used by some. Anecdotally I'd say it was an older demographic. Others used 'stroke'.
Yeah, isn’t the usual term stroke? (That f*cked me up when I was watching “Brazil.”) Shouldn’t that be in the first sentence (moreso than division sign).
Whatever; f*ck it. I’m being bold. Wiki Wikardo 18:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I concur. I've been here all my life and it was always called a 'stroke' before the internet. Now it seems that the usual blind obedience of calling it a slash - particularly a 'forward slash' - is rife. I suspect it's just another Americanism that's seeped into the language.
Now, now. I do understand, but American English has also changed a LOT since I was a kid. It's a changing language. England gave away the right to control the language when they spread it around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries. And it is a growing, changing language everywhere, not just in America or just in England. In fact, I've read that the majority of English speakers in the world will soon speak a dialect that Brits and Americans can barely understand.
But I think calling it a "slash" isn't really so much of an Americanism as it is a contribution from a different culture: that of computer programmers - many from England and Australia though yes, most from America. I was around not in the earliest days of programming, but early enough that it was still a very tight society. Programmers came into it through a mathematics background where that "/" sign is used for division. They did not usually come up through a fine arts background where they might have delved deeply into the esoterica of the English language. They had a limited number of keys on the keyboard and needed to use many of the symbol keys not only for their conventional purposes, but for control purposes as well. Calling it a "division sign" would be too cumbersome, so they came up with a description that could be uttered in a single, efficient, syllable: "slash". (It might also shock you to learn that the exclamation point was called a "bang" for the same reason, the asterisk was known as the "splat", etc.) I doubt very much that the people who originated these descriptors had any idea that they would one day propagate out into the mainstream world. You can thank, or curse, Tim Berners-Lee for that. FatBear1 (talk) 17:15, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, now I’m watching “Brazil” again, and I’m confused. A “stroke” isn’t a dash? —Hey, Wiki
It can be but in present British English usually isn't. — LlywelynII 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That gloss was true for the 18th century and oblique stroke is where stroke came from... but, yeah, you're right that it's not true any more. — LlywelynII 14:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Why additional unrelated punctuation

[edit]

There is a large column containing a plethora of Punctuation symbols , word dividers, general typography etc. Why is that there? DGerman (talk) 15:48, 28 May 2017

Slash: history of the word

[edit]

In the History section, the article currently reads

The name "slash" is a recent development, first attested in American English c. 1961,[1] but has gained wide currency through its use in computing, a context where it is sometimes even used in British English in preference to the usual name "stroke".

Can anyone verify that against the "long" OED? Because the only reference in New Oxford American Dictionary (3 ed.) entry for "Slash" accessed via the Wikipedia Library says: {{blockquote| 2. an oblique stroke (/) in print or writing, used between alternatives (e.g., and/or), in fractions (e.g., 3/4), in ratios (e.g., miles/day), or between separate elements of a text.
■ [usually as modifier] a genre of fiction, published chiefly in fanzines or online, in which characters who appear together in movies, television, or other popular media are portrayed as having a sexual (especially homosexual) relationship.
[1980s: from the use of an oblique stroke to link adjoining names or initials (as in Kirk/Spock and K/S. ]
[ ... ]
– ORIGIN late Middle English: perhaps imitative, or from Old French esclachier "break in pieces". The noun dates from the late 16th century.[2].

Comments? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:30, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@John Maynard Friedman: The online full OED says "5. A thin sloping line, thus /; = oblique n. 4, solidus n.1 2. U.S. Also slash-mark." The list of examples starts with 1961, but here we have a common error: the OED does not claim to know the earliest use of a word! Incidentally the 1961 citation is to Webster's 3rd New Internat. Dict. Eng. Lang., so that could be a place to look for further information. Zerotalk 05:41, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This technical report ca 1950 has it. And this 1949 military signals manual. And this 1947 manual. Zerotalk 06:00, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. TBF, the current text does say "earliest attested". TBH, what drew my attention to the current citation is that it looks amateurish and thought surely we can do better than that. I'll try later on to see if I can a form of words to cite the 1947 manual without a WP:OR vio. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:44, 5 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "slash, n.1". OED Online. December 2020. Oxford University Press. https://www-oed-com.library.access.arlingtonva.us/view/Entry/181388?rskey=kGzdlw&result=1&isAdvanced=false (accessed February 14, 2021).
  2. ^ https://www-oxfordreference-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/view/10.1093/acref/9780195392883.001.0001/m_en_us1291295?rskey=5Cn7US&result=4

, 36.37.152.147 (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Slash_(punctuation)&oldid=1254771385"