Talk:AXXo

"American computer criminals" category?

I'm not sure that aXXo should be included in this category, since it his nationality is uncertain. In fact, this could be disproven by the TorrentFreak interview in which he says:

Thank god in this country we don’t believe in copyright infringement. It’s just sharing entertainment, nothing more.

134.24.150.134 (talk) 00:05, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree, since we do not know of his/her/their origin, it is not appropriate. I will be removing it. --cooljuno411 04:31, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Removed supposed interview

In another purported interview on August 4th, 2008 in Dublin, Ireland, a certain Veronica, apparently a reporter for a major, but otherwise unspecified computing magazine, learns that aXXo stands for 2 male individuals, one from Wales, the other from Poland.

Interview With aXXo
August 4th, 2008
Dublin, Ireland
The following is a short interview with the leader of the aXXo team.
Veronica is a pseudonym for a reporter working at a major computing magazine. The
interview took place in a popular pub in Dublin late in the afternoon.
THE INTERVIEW:
Veronica: First, I want to thank you for doing this interview. I know a lot of people will
be very interested in what you have to say.
aXXo: No problem.
Veronica: I am sure that readers want to know, more than anything, who you are?
aXXo: Well, the question ought to be 'who we are'.
Veronica: The photo you provided shows two people. One is obviously you. Does this
mean aXXo is actually two people?
aXXo: Yes. Well, actually, we have help from a few others. But mainly it is just the two
of us.
Veronica: I won't reveal your real names in the article for your security.
aXXo: Well, yes, as we've discussed. No names. The photo is the trade-off.
Veronica: How about your nationalities?
aXXo: Sure. That I can tell you. I am from Wales, and my partner is from Poland.
Veronica: When you say 'partners', do you mean partners in the general sense?
aXXo: Well, let's just say we are partners in more ways than one. Just a coincidence, I
suppose.
Veronica: Now, about what you do. Why are your torrents so popular?
aXXo: Consistency and compatibility. People know what they are getting, and they, you
know, have come to rely on the fact that they play in almost any DVD player or software
player.
Veronica: Can you talk about how you do it?
aXXo: Trade secrets, sorry.
Veronica: Ok, ok. You've reappeared after vanishing for a while. People really missed
you. What happened?
aXXo: Well, things were really a mess on the torrent scene.
Veronica: What do you mean?
aXXo: I'm sure you could see what was happening. When the name aXXo became
associated with fakes, spyware, trojans, etc, we just stopped. We had a good name and we
didn't want to spoil it. We care about our name and about quality.
Veronica: What about the future?
aXXo: We are back for now. Things are better out there. There are still fakes, but a lot of
torrent sites, such as btjunkie.org has a good reporting system that seem to be working.
The Domplayer scam is still a problem, but things are better than before.
Veronica: Right.
aXXo: I think people have to work together to separate the good from the bad. The best
way to do this is to read the comments left by other downloaders. That's what they're for.
Too often, people just download the file without checking. They just go by how many
seeders and leechers there are -- like sheep. Actually, my partner calls them ‘penguins’.
They just jump in because the others jumped in, without checking.
Also, torrent sites and downloaders should reject any thing that’s compressed. These rar
and zip files should be avoided automatically. There’s no good reason for compressed
files. They don't save much space, and downloaders can’t 'cherry pick' the files they
want, like in a music CD, for example. Also, .mkv, Real, and the like are just a waste of
time. There are a lot of ridiculous things out there.
Veronica: Like what else?
aXXo: Something that always amuses me is the word LIMITED on torrents. The first
time we saw that we couldn't stop laughing.
Veronica: (laughing) I never really thought about that.
aXXo: And I think for the long term, it is obvious to the well informed that working with
the community is in the best interest of all, especially the movie business. It is the, you
know, way of the future. Eventually, we may see the distributor vanish, and the producers
uploading their product with a major brand logo watermarked in the corner of the screen.
I think it is the only way it can go. Everybody makes out.
Veronica: I have to agree with you there. Which sites do you think are best?
aXXo: Well, I hate commercial sites. It defeats the purpose of torrents. I am very happy
Demonoid is back. They were the greatest of them all. Why they set up in Canada, I'll
never know. I do hope they recover, but now btjunkie.org is the biggest. They track a
couple of million torrents. It's a critical mass thing. As for my other favorites,
mininova.org, isohunt.com, onebigtorrent.org, and of course, the home of my torrents,
superfundo.org.
Veronica: Right.
aXXo: I don't have a lot of time left. As you can see, some people are waiting for me.
Veronica: Do you have any other comments?
aXXo: I don’t know. Well, happy downloading to all. Don't forget to seed. Ummmm,
long live the community. And thanks to everyone for your support. Your comments and
kind words mean a lot to us.
Veronica: Thanks again for meeting with us and good luck in the future.
aXXo: Thank you. Take care.
Veronica: Thank you.
END

Interview is not reliable. Veronica is a pseudonym for a reporter working at a major computing magazine.???? If it was a real interview why all the secrecy? It also suspiciously mentions a number of sites almost like an advertisement. -- Esemono (talk) 13:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Descriptions like purported and apparently were used in the statement, and with that the information is as reliable as the other interview, since that can also not be verified by any other sources. Admittedly, the TorrentFreak.com article on Wikipedia gives those guys some credibility, compared with that isohunt download anyway. But still, as it says in the aXXo article, others have benefited from the popularity of the subject in some shape or form before - why not TorrentFreak - think about the mozza that can be made with the ad-clicks from all those by-passer on their quest for aXXo. I am not suggesting, I am only playing Devil's advocate. Our whole article is, after all, only dependent on what is out there on the net, and with so little information being out there in the first place, other than people thanking aXXo, putting in silly requests , and other, sometimes semi-religious Kaffufle. I see the quoting of a dodgy interview with two guys from Poland and Wales as an opportunity to further demystify the whole aXXo phenomenon for the valued reader by pointing out one more time that the identity attracts a lot of nonsens. That's my 10 cents. Appreciate that you have put the deleted bits on the discussion page, though. :) Dr-Victor-von-Doom 09:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

OK on second thought you make a good point -- Esemono (talk) 01:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Darkside link

I removed the link but if you can find where the admin stated that aXXo is taking a break then you can readd it. Also, to make a full circle here is a link to the darkside thread talking about the wikipedia page. So now you can look at a thread talking about them looking at us -- Esemono (talk) 05:50, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Identities

An Duc Do

This is the http://hubpages.com/hub/aXXo An Duc Do hoax article but its blacklisted. Need to find another article linking the An Duc Do to the aXXo name. So we can put the below back into the article-- Esemono (talk) 23:12, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

One such example is the An Duc Do hoax in which a news article clip claiming to be from The New York Times suggested that aXXo was arrested as part of Operation D-Elite, a Federal Bureau of Investigation operation. In the article, dated November 12, 2007, aXXo is named as "An Duc Do", then aged 25, of Orlando, Florida. The article claims that Do "pleaded guilty before U.S. District Judge Legrome D. Davis of the Eastern District of Pennsylvania on a two-count felony. He is charged with conspiracy to commit criminal copyright infringement and criminal copyright infringement (which brings a penalty of) up to 10 years in prison coupled with a fine of $500,000. He will be sentenced on February 27th, 2008." While Judge Legrome D. Davis is an actual judge on the Eastern District and Operation D-Elite did take place, the scanned clipping shown on the website is a fake template commonly used in hoax stories.

John Burningham

In another supposed The New York Times article that used the same hoax clipping image it was claimed that aXXo, aka John Burningham, was killed in a traffic accident on the Interstate 95.[1] The sources of those hoaxes are unknown.

Veroncia interview

In another interview on August 4, 2008 in Dublin, Ireland, a person named "Veronica", supposedly a reporter for a major but unspecified computing magazine, learns that aXXo consists of two male individuals, one from Wales, the other from Poland.ISO PDF

Do you have any source for that info? 86.45.96.102 (talk) 12:11, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

The interview is actually shown further up on the talk page. -- Esemono (talk) 15:03, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Removing other names

The above have been removed because of lack of eliable sources as per WP:RS. Initially I had also removed them but I thought Dr-Victor-von-Doom made a valid point:

I see the quoting of a dodgy interview with two guys from Poland and Wales as an opportunity to further demystify the whole aXXo phenomenon for the valued reader by pointing out one more time that the identity attracts a lot of nonsens. That's my 10 cents. Appreciate that you have put the deleted bits on the discussion page, though. :) Dr-Victor-von-Doom 09:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

But I also see that getting this article legit, involves cutting away all this internet rumor. Even though aXXo is just that internet rumor. -- Esemono (talk) 01:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. It's a bit painful cutting back all that information, but if we can start from scratch with only reliable sources, then this article is better off. Gary King (talk) 02:56, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I am rooting for you to do it! —Mattisse (Talk) 21:46, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead too short?

I was reading the article and i feel that the lead misses the point of why axxo is notable. Axxo is not notable for being a pirate, he is notable for being a pirate that is the author of dvd rips of predictable and consistent quality who are immensely popular online.83.132.161.145 (talk) 16:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

If you have a reference citation for that, you could add that to the lead. (Or perhaps one of the existing references contains that information, such as http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=196604239. —Mattisse (Talk) 18:09, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure how this article passed GA with such a short lead section. I suggest re-listing this article unless criteria 1(b) is thoroughly checked over and fixed --Flewis^(talk) 13:28, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Criticism Section - Unsourced material moved from article to here - when it is referenced it can be moved back to article

--Criticisms--

aXXo is not a scene releaser and/or scene release group

None of his/their rips ever manage to find themselves on scene release sites or sites that announce scene releases

aXXo takes scene releases from reputable groups that have been around and have built up a name for themselves and he/they re-encode them so that either the video bitrate and/or audio bitrate is different so to not be real obvious

aXXo does not follow scene standards, an example would be the fact that aXXo releases use CBR audio and not VBR, they take VBR audio and transcode it to AC3, doesnt follow mod16 resolution guidelines, or size parameter in many releases, they should be either 1, 2 or 3 CD releases, not some that are 900MBs

aXXo does encodes from scene release DVD5s, which is a no no, rules state a rip must be from a DVD9 untouched source, and aXXo will typically take 2 CD releases and re-encode them down to 1 CD

There have been instances where people have problems with aXXo releases with media players with built-in codecs, this is because of re-encoding

Basically, aXXo is the poor mans acceptable rate of quality to those who dont know about scene release sites, only use public sites, dont know about releaselog, vcdquality, or NFOdump, ect ect. Or just dont care enough about the quality they get, because if you compare an aXXo release to a scene release, its fairly obvious which has the better quality

• Note: It the above material is rewritten so as to follow WP:MoS and is given reference sources per WP:V and WP:RS, it can be moved back into article. —Mattisse (Talk) 14:30, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
• If any reliable sources talk about the critism aXXo receives because of scene releases etc, then you can add the section. Otherwise its your own research and opinion. -- Esemono (talk) 03:44, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it really OK to say in an encyclopedia article "aXXo does encodes from scene release DVD5s, which is a no no"?!? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.176.201 (talk) 13:29, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

No it's not OK which is why is removed. -- Esemono (talk) 09:34, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Slate articles about aXXo

Slate's associate editor, Josh Levin, recently wrote an article about aXXo and an interview about it, which are both interesting and can be used in this article. I haven't read the whole thing so I'll leave it here for whoever wants to check them out and use as much of their information as possible:

• "AXXo You Are a God"
• Meet the World's Most Beloved Movie Stealer

Gary King (talk) 15:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Added the first one which suspiciously follows the same format as this article but the second article is a general interveiw about aXXo and copyrights not an actual interview with aXXo -- Esemono (talk) 09:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I said it was an interview about it :) I used "it", too, since I'm still not sure if it's one person or a group. Gary King (talk) 16:20, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Right

Should we state the exact type of software aXXo uses, or would that be too vague, in the article? Because the current states:

This quality results from aXXo's reliable synchronization using codec encoding programs to encode digital files.^[6]

Should we change this? I think it is a little too vague... LOTRrules (talk · contribs · email) 23:20, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't care for it the way it is now because it really doesn't help out anyone who isn't a computer geek. If you can rewrite it using the exact software or method, that would probably be more useful. Good idea. ^Law _shoot! 14:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Right according to my sources there is only one method that aXXo uses. But under the circumstances would it be legal to actually post it here? LOTRrules (talk · contribs · email) 23:12, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

What I mean is can I get "done in" for revealing such a source? There are instructions out there from a fan of aXXo's who was angered for not getting responses back from him and demanded his "trade secrets" as aXXo put it. When he found out he released instructions on one of the torrent sites. LOTRrules (talk · contribs · email) 23:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello LOTR. Of course we want to avoid being a how-to guide - that's something people don't really need to know about and certainly promotes piracy. One of the sources(used in the article) says that aXXo has high quality rips because of the use of X program, coupled with X encoder. I don't think that is telling anyone how to rip a DVD - as long as we are using it to further the clarity of the article. Like DVD43, we could simply find consensus to add that material, if people think it makes the article better, or if people feel like we are making it a guide to piracy, we can leave it out. I don't know about trade secrets because even simple rippers allow you to set the file size and compression so it can fit on a CD-R.

If you are giving away trade secrets, say the original key that broke DVD encoding, yeah, I would say you aren't going to get 'done in' but you would be, in a sense, making something available to the public that WP is not better for having done. By saying that aXXo uses Nero and FF decoder, I don't think it poses a problem. It's a difficult issue, and I'm glad you have given it so much thought. Like I said, one of the article sources mentions how it's done, and it could replace reliable synchronization using codec encoding programs - which does little for a casual reader. Let's have respect for WP as far as it not being a haven for piracy, and leave out the specifics. If people want to rip DVDs, I would say let them google it. Make sense? I'd rather be on the cautious side with this issue. Any ideas? ^Law _shoot! 03:13, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

According to my source aXXo uses the following type of software: "DVD Decryptor" and "AutoGK". I found it on the net. Sorry I'm not descriptive but what more can I say? LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 12:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Only add it if it's from a reliable source. If it's just speculation, then don't add it. I'd prefer it if it was added (if it's reliable) since it's already hard to find references on aXXo. Gary King (talk) 01:28, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking. But is a download a viable option? LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 01:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

Does anyone know where the term or what "aXXo" actually stands for? LOTRrules (talk · contribs · email) 23:29, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Closest I could even harbor a guess would be from Axonometric projection. I don't think were gonna know what was in the mind of this kid when he came up with his handle. ^Law _shoot! 03:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Piracy Headline is mis-leading

Piracy in the case of copyright infringement requires a profit to be made. aXXo makes no money from sharing his DVD Rips, therefore his actions are not considered Piracy. I am going to change it Copyright Infringing Activities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.152.87 (talk) 06:19, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

You do realise that the MPAA clasify torrent sites as piracy sites? Yes they are infringing copyright but this is still piracy. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 13:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

They only recently started calling that piracy in the last few years. Some say it is to make it sound worse so less people will download the copyrighted files, but the original definition still holds that profit must be made, or attempted to be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.152.87 (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Do you have references? Otherwise I shall revert it unless someone else or you could come up with a good ref. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 16:51, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Whatever, guess you haven't been following the history of this problem long enough. Just look back to the original Napster days, the news articles and terms used back then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.91.152.87 (talk) 20:39, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

But this is the hear and now. Anyway when this article was classed GA-Class (A class) the reviewer did not have a problem against this. You can provide refs and add this in as a term if you like. But the refs are needed to prevent the article from turning bad. Wikipedia's reputation (and the editors' involved is at stake. Happy editing. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 00:09, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

The term "piracy" seems to refer to any copyright infringement in an electronic medium, essentially, per the Copyright infringement article. Gary King (talk) 01:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think piracy is at least the legal term for copyright infringement, I know it's probably the most common term today for it but a really slow thinking person might actually believe aXXo is an actual pirate —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.186.135.218 (talk) 20:18, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

List

Do we really need a list of films released by aXXo? The Independant has already recognised that aXXo's been ripping DVD's for quite a while now. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 12:26, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I see it's been removed; yep it's unnecessary. Too many films to list, anyways. Gary King (talk) 01:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'd removed it but some IP kept on adding to it. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 01:32, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Picture

The main pic gives away the name of the Ghost Town torrent. One google search later, the first result gives you the torrent. Suffices as sharing warez? --70.64.123.219 (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

It could be cropped to only keep the logo? Gary King (talk) 01:00, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

The picture does not have anything unique to the torrent, nor a link to the original upload. "<any movie> + aXXo" as a query will give you any torrent you are looking for. I don't have a problem with cropping it, as I uploaded it, but when I did so, I made sure that the .nfo file was not a how-to. It really is not anything unique and at best it alerts the reader that Ghost Town has been released as a torrent - but so does aXXo's blog. If the consensus is to crop, I'll get to steppin'.^Law _shoot! 01:23, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

On the side of caution, I went ahead and uploaded a blank aXXo template, which should be just as effective at displaying an .nfo file. ^Law _shoot! 01:34, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

700MB

This article implies that aXXo pioneered ripping DVDs and that he created the 700mb DVD rip standard. Quite frankly, I've never even seen any of his releases in the scene. --nlitement ^[talk] 17:55, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it implies that. And what scene would that be? aXXo has been on the torrent sites for years . LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 18:18, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant the Scene, with a capital S.

"The aXXo files gained popularity due to the fact that aXXo produces files of comparatively small size and consistent quality. The file size, aproximately 700 megabytes, is deliberate as to allow the user to burn the file to a CD-R.[5] This quality results from aXXo's reliable synchronization using codec encoding programs to encode digital files.[6] "

Who can take that seriously? I mean, anyone who has any knowledge of the scene, that is? Torrent sites consist 99% of warez scene leaks, and claiming that they gained popularity due to that is extremely superfluous.. ANY DVD RIP RELEASE in the past 10 years has been like that. --nlitement ^[talk] 20:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah right now I'm getting a feel for what you mean. However he/she is the most popular for getting quality DVD rips. I mean have heard of any other DVD ripper that does the exact same as aXXo and is as famous as him? KlaXXon is not a candidate as he is just an imitator of aXXo's. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 21:36, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

I picked up on the issue and removed the offending text before seeing this discussion. I'm in total agreement. The information here that is being attributed to aXXo is the basic standard that every single group has used for years, and for the exact same reasons. The quality is the same as any other DVD rip, because everyone uses the same codecs. None of this is notable to the person in the article, who is just known as a name-brand for movie releases. His notability comes from his cult following, as he doesn't do anything technically different from any other releaser or distributor. Rurik (talk) 22:26, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

True, but he's the notable one. He may not be the only one to use the 700MB standard, but it is what makes him popular. The timing of his releases, the consistency, and the cult following. Just because someone comes first, doesn't automatically make a predecessor less notable. If that's the implication given, it's most likely given by the sources. We write what we can verify, not what is true. ^Law _shoot! 00:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I think too much credit is given here. The tools used to create DVD rips are nearly all automated and all create standard sized rips, based on a decade old set of rules called the Standards. In the references that exist, I don't see anything that specifies that he is notable in his usage of the tools - they just explain the process to the naive readers and show that aXXo follows the rules. The 700MB movies don't make him popular because ALL DVD/screener movies are released as 700MB by standard (with very few exceptions). It's like saying people love McDonald's burgers because they use meat and condiments inside two buns to make it easier to hold. While that is true, it's not a technique unique to McDonald's and it really has no bearing in why they are popular. There are a lot of buzz words thrown around, which I had deleted, that basically state that he used tools to compress the video with a codec. The text reads as if he is the only distributor that performs these steps, and that is probably because of the badly written source article on Slate. One source cannot be used as the holy grail here, especially when many more citations can be made to show that he is not unique or notable in this regard. I am not debating aXXo's popularity or notability, just the fact that this article tells the public that he made the standards instead of just following them. Rurik (talk) 01:34, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Your analogy makes me laugh, and hungry. I see your point. You feel there is undue weight being thrown around resulting in a depiction that aXXo pioneered this standard. Can we agree his popularity is in part because he adheres to the 700MB mark? ^Law _shoot! 02:58, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I would agree that people like 700MB formats, which is why it became a standard back in 2001. I would say that people like aXXo's movies because they are 700MB, but that's a bit of a fallacy because, again, all movies are 700MB. However, I'll concede that point to make the article more approachable by those naive of the Scene. IMO, the text should be re-worded and should include a link to the wikipage for release standards, to provide accurate referencing. Rurik (talk) 09:18, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Having seen plenty of 1.2g and exact dupes, I couldn't say with certainty that all are 700MB. The source you provided is a good standard, but is not a third party source, IMO, as it is a direct source from the warez scene. After reading over the references, I would have to conclude that aXXo's popularity is a direct result of high-quality, well-timed releases. The 700MB doesn't need to be the main focus, but we should probably mention why he adheres to this standard, although you are certainly correct, it's not why he has the following he does. ^Law _shoot! 04:45, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

aXXo is not the first ever DVD ripper to create a 700 MB - we know that and we can even put it in the article - but it must be acknowledged that he is well known for them. Anything even remotely under 700 MB or over 700 MB is a fake. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 19:39, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

One of his most recent releases is 800MB - verified hash and .nfo file. So much for the standard - which was silly considering VCD is played out. If this continues, hopefully a source will be found to verify it.^Law _shoot! 05:31, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

KLAXXON

I've removed the relatively lengthy mention of KLAXXON. The only connection KLAXXON has with AXXO is the attempt to capitalize on the name. --Breshkovsky (talk) 05:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I've revereted it. Klaxxon is an integral part and should be mentioned. It is not "advertising" as you put it. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 14:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

How exactly is KLAXXON "integral" to this article? If it weren't for his name there would be no connection made with AXXO. The points in the article that connect KLAXXON with AXXO use references that do not back up the exact claims given here. You can look at the Wikipedia entry alone and see that it doesn't fit. For one, this sentence:

"Uploads of new aXXo files to the Pirate Bay stopped on November 11, 2007.[1] In aXXo's absence a new DVD ripper, by the name of '"klaxxon", emerged in file sharing communities on November 8, 2007."

On November 8, KLAXXON emerged to fill "aXXo's absence" when in the previous sentence it states that AXXO did not stop uploading until November 11, three days later? What sense does that make? How can someone "emerge to fill an absence" before the absence has even announced itself? KLAXXON is described in this entry as emerging as a direct result of AXXO leaving, as though stepping in to fill his place, but the dates and references show this is not so, thus I don't see the relevance of KLAXXON to this entry. If you still disagree but accept that KLAXXON was uploading before AXXO left then why don't we also add the names of a bunch of other then-popular uploaders to the page? Why devote 3/4 a paragraph to KLAXXON over any one of them?

Lastly, contrary to the Wikipedia page, the references give no mention of KLAXXON having "been inspired by the identity aXXo," only that he capitalizes on the AXXO name for search engine purposes.

Are these not good reasons to edit the section? That's a genuine question, not rhetorical... --Breshkovsky (talk) 22:26, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

OK. I've updated that section now and below I provide information about each line I've changed so as to stop you from just automatically reverting the page. If you have anything to add here, surely go ahead - a discussion would be good.

I'm not against mentioning KLAXXON or FXG or any other uploader but as the page was before, in wording and references, I don't believe it made any sense. The section I think could also be expanded now to include something more about aXXo's departure but I'm a little reluctant to put effort into that just now in case you wanna keep reverting here.

"Uploads of new aXXo files to the Pirate Bay stopped on November 11, 2007."

Uploads stopped everywhere, not to mention that a few sentences before it already states that aXXo deleted all his/her recent files from that particular site.

"In aXXo's absence a new DVD ripper, by the name of '"klaxxon", emerged in file sharing communities on November 8, 2007. "

There have been many regular, popular and consistant uploaders before, during and after aXXo's short departure. How is KLAXXON significant (or "integral" as you say) to this entry then? See also my previously posted comment concerning the dates and the suggestion that KLAXXON was filling an absence.

"The name klaxxon appears to have been inspired by the identity aXXo, and uses aXXo’s popularity to promote klaxxon files in the search results of file sharing websites."

If that's the only connection then any mention of KLAXXON would be better noted in the 'Imitators' section and even then can hardly be called "integral."

"Three months later, as people started to forget him in favour of FXG and Klaxxon, aXXo started uploading files again, with the appropriate movie I Am Legend being the first, on March 9, 2008."

Is "as people started to forget him in favour of FXG and Klaxxon" fitting with Wikipedia? Also, the only reference that mentions anything close to this is a sketchy article from The Hindu Times with:

"There were fewer cries for Axxo on bulletin boards. Some even said there was no need for him to come back." --Breshkovsky (talk) 01:34, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

POV text and a bad reference

After a few reverts by two users, I decided to put this here for others to work on. The changes being re-introduced back into the article are here, though there has been no true justification for their presence.

These edits include:

• "The aXXo files gained popularity due to the fact that aXXo produces files of comparatively small size and consistently good quality. " Good quality here is a POV term, as good cannot be defined. What is good to one person is inadequate to another. Simply taking 'good' out would suffice (consistent quality), but someone just reverted that change.

Hmm..."What is good to one person is inadequate to another" - I think this hardly justifies removing the content as this is POV in itself. Find a source which comments on the lesser qualities of aXXo's files...LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 15:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

• "On file sharing websites, aXXo files attract a large following because of their relatively small file size, ease of download and use, and their consistent quality due to their reliable and synchronous encoding." First off, this is redundant; it's already listed in near verbatim in the introduction. It's also speculative that this is exactly why people download the videos, for which there is no source. In my last edit, I've removed the questionable material, and combined it with the trailing sentence to make a more cohesive statement with speculation: "On file sharing websites, aXXo files attract a large following, with over a million users downloading aXXo files each month." That was also reverted.

Well find a source for "aXXo files attract a large following, with over a million users downloading aXXo files each month". The "million" term is a bit of a hyperbole. Plus with no source the sentence is a point of view. (The introduction should only be a summary of what the article contains. So content there will be mentioned later in the article.). LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 15:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

• The reference " ((cite web |date=August 2008|url = http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=196604239 |title = Click To Play: Why Silverlight Matters|publisher = DV Digital Video magazine| accessdate = 2008-08-20 | author= Johnson, Nels))" is being reintroduced into the article with these edits for no reason whatsoever. The reference has nothing to do with aXXo, it's all about why Silverlight is better than Flash. The only passing reference to aXXo in the article is that his videos "stay in sync" and that "perhaps one day he will switch to Silverlight and begin using the Expression Encoder", which lends nothing to the content of this article, nor aXXo himself. It explains nothing on how he operates, why he operates, or anything tangible; it merely states a opinion that maybe aXXo would probably use a certain tool.

Well since aXXo references (the reliable ones anyway) are so hard to come by we can only go with what reliable source we can find. So that little tidbit of information is helpful to the reader and the article as a whole. LOTRrules _Talk ^Contribs 15:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Comments? Rurik (talk) 02:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)