Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of fatal dog attacks in the United States

List of fatal dog attacks in the United States

AfDs for this article:

• Articles for deletion/Fatal dog attacks in the United States
• Articles for deletion/List of people killed by dogs in the United States

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List of fatal dog attacks in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This nom will certainly be controversial, and I think it merits a detailed rationale, so please bear with me. 1) this is in violation of WP:IINFO. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and it is literally a listing of non-notable people who died in a dog attack. 2) Similarly, WP:NOTMEMORIAL applies. None of these people individually meet our notability criteria, and most of them were only covered in local publications. 3) I'm concerned about WP:BLP (which does apply to recently deceased people). There is seemingly no point in listing the names and personal information of non-notable people. See the second paragraph of BLP, which says we must take extra care to have "regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist" 5) WP:NOTNEWS: very few, if any of these events have a lasting notability outside of the 24 hour news cycle 4) I feel that it doesn't meet WP:LISTN We already have Fatal dog attacks, which covers fatal attacks generally, eliminating the need for specialized lists. In reading through the past AFDs, there is clear consensus that the topic of people being killed by dogs is something that is clearly notable. Sources such as 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 either agreggate breeds of dogs involved in fatal attacks/other statistics, or pick a random year and use it as a test case to analyse trends in fatal dog attacks. This, admittedly, is great coverage to include in a broad concept article. However, none of them provide a convincing justification to listing every single documented fatal dog attack. This list is just overly massive and a complete list would probably be much longer. Sure, some of these attacks may had hundreds of news articles and the broad-concept of 'dog attacks in the United States' is almost definitely notable, but I see no justification to exhaustively listing every single individual case. I'm sure people will have strong and vastly differing opinions, so will end by saying: let's take extra care to be civil and avoid personal attacks here. We are all here to improve the encyclopedia. Focus on content, not people. Best, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• I am also nominating the following related pages because they constitute the rest of the list:

List of fatal dog attacks in the United States (2000s) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

List of fatal dog attacks in the United States (before 2000) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Also please consider the WP:RECENTISM and WP:SYSTEMATICBIAS issues having this list raises. Imagine if we tried to list all fatal dog attacks from all history and all the world! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:21, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Animal-related deletion discussions. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 15:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• KEEP ALL This is about "Fatal dog attacks" not every single dog attack ever. This gets coverage, and what an encyclopedia that has no limited space should have. There are no RECENTISM or SYSTEMATICBIAS problems. The oldest dog bite referenced is in 1833. If you had any historical records of a dog biting someone before then then you could put it on this list. There is nothing wrong with there being a list for one nation and not others, that's not what SYSTEMATICBIAS is. You can create an article for all the fatal dog attacks in the world, then have a link to this list for the USA, and any nation that has too many things appearing on their list to fit there, can be split off to their own article. Dream Focus 15:47, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Delete all per WP:LISTN and WP:INDISCRIMINATE: (1) none of these incidents are individually notable (if they are, individual articles can be created); and (2) there is no evidence that the US has notably many fatal dog attacks. I would be open to changing my vote if there is evidence I'm not seeing of (1) or (2). AleatoryPonderings (talk) 16:23, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Delete all - completely agree with the nomination statement. We have an article fatal dog attacks where the substance and any particularly notable examples can be discussed. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • There's some confusion with the title and relationship between articles. For the record, my delete !vote is about lists of fatal dog attacks. I haven't formed an opinion about whether there should be "Fatal dog attacks [in country]" with information/statistics sans lists of non-notable events. It seems like there could be a good case. The problem is, of course, the list of individual incidents that makes up the substance of the present page. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 17:57, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Delete all Per nom. An attempt to get round WP:NOTNEWS by sticking a load of news stories into a list. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 16:26, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• What about List of fatal dog attacks, Fatal dog attacks in Canada, and List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom? Or List of fatal alligator attacks in the United States List of fatal bear attacks in North America List of fatal cougar attacks in North America List of fatal shark attacks in Australia List of fatal shark attacks in California List of fatal shark attacks in Réunion List of fatal shark attacks in South African territorial waters List of fatal shark attacks in the United States List of fatal snake bites in the United States List of fatal snake bites in Australia List of wolf attacks in North America Dream Focus 16:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • You also have all the list articles about this which aren't titled "list of" in their name listed at Category:Deaths due to animal attacks. And of course people dying by other means that don't involve animals at Category:Deaths by cause. Should we get rid of all of those as well? Dream Focus 16:35, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
    • Seems like there's a fair amount of listcruft to be cleared out … And, in any event, I don't see a close analogy between dog attacks and shark attacks, especially since there probably are notably many shark attacks in certain parts of the world. AleatoryPonderings (talk)
      • Notable how? Are there any blue links to articles about these attacks? Seems like the same sort of coverage, regardless of animal responsible. Dream Focus 16:40, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

        Dream Focus, Then I'd be inclined to delete them all. But, in any event, I don't think these articles are of substantial precedential value, per Hog Farm's vote below. AleatoryPonderings (talk) 17:07, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. Dream Focus 16:41, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

• Delete all per nom. Fatal dog attacks is a notable topic, but there's not the sort of coverage to work WP:LISTN. And Dream Focus - It looks like some of your examples above should probably go, too. Sometimes other stuff that does exist shouldn't. Hog Farm _Bacon 16:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• DELETE AS IS. These are far too frequent and numerous to warrant a list. WP:IINFO and WP:NOTNEWS are king here. An overall compilation of statistics would be fine, such as deaths per year, per breed, per country, etc. (doing like this wouldn't even require the attacks to be fatal). Whether that can be done in a main article or warrants a separate article just for the stats, I'll remain agnostic about for now. The individual details surrounding specific attacks are run-of-the-mill news items and don't warrant mention. We also don't (nor should we) compile lists of every person killed by lightning strike, by shark attack, in plane crashes, etc. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 16:38, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Delete: per nom. Wikipedia is not the news. Clearly breaks WP:IINFO and are not individually notable so have no place in an encyclopaeida. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 16:44, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Delete all. The nom's very detailed rationale explains it all. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 17:18, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Keep all the lists meet our criteria WP:LISTN the lists are informational. I have much respect for Eddie891, but I have even more respect for the project and for the reader's desire to find this information. The pageviews show that our readers are using this information. Lightburst (talk) 17:34, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
  • Pageviews aren't indicators of what should be kept or not. The page My penis has been deleted many times as thoroughly unencyclopedic content. I bet it'd get great pageviews if it existed, but pageviews aren't a good indicator on if a subject is encyclopedic or not. Hog Farm _Bacon 17:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
• Comment, history: There are also List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom and Fatal dog attacks in Canada. In the spring of 2019 there was a lengthy discussion that resulted in the decision to peel out the "studies" from the page Fatal dog attacks in the United States (as it was named then) to a separate page that would be international in scope but separate from the list of fatalities. No one did that, so a few months later I created the page Fatal dog attacks (first version) and included in it some international fatalities (and links to the USA, UK and Canada pages). Someone later removed the list of international fatalities from that page [1] (without discussion) and I haven't gotten around to making an international List of fatal dog attacks page to put that content into. Normal Op (talk) 17:53, 5 September 2020 (UTC)