Talk:2020 Hong Kong national security law

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This article was nominated for deletion on 6th June 2020. The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

A news item involving 2020 Hong Kong national security law was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 30 June 2020.

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A fact from 2020 Hong Kong national security law appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 13 June 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that legislation for a Hong Kong national security law was attempted during both the SARS and COVID-19 epidemics?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/June. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Hong Kong national security law.

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

Not moved, 20 March 2024, to Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, see discussion.
Moved, 8 April 2024, from Hong Kong national security law to 2020 Hong Kong national security law, see discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 18:58, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that legislation for a Hong Kong national security law has been attempted during both coronavirus disease epidemics?
- ALT1:... that ...? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)

Reviewed: Jutta Hering-Winckler
Comment: Only two CoV epidemics: SARS and COVID-19, both of which gutted HK for the first half of 2003 and 2020, when controversial national security legislation was and is being attempted. SARS discussed in the 2003 section, I'm drafting a part about COVID-19 tensions now.

5x expanded by Kingsif (talk). Self-nominated at 00:29, 5 June 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Hook looks good, maybe needs a link to coronavirus. You still need the source for the hook though. Article got nominated for deletion, but it leans being kept. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 01:33, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What do mean needs a source? (thinks) Do you want me to fill out sources in the template? That's not needed (and, IMO, encourages reviewers to not check the article, from experience) - the hook information should be (and is) in the article, supported by sources with inline citations. (Yes, someone nominated it for deletion because another page has a misguided requested move discussion pointing to this title. Despite being about something else.) Kingsif (talk) 02:29, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, if you insist. The source checks out. Nova Crystallis (Talk) 02:56, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese National People’s Congress Standing Committee interpretation

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2023/01/01/2003791775 Kaihsu (talk) 17:40, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Who drafted the law?

The drafting process in June 2020 was shrouded in secrecy. Is there any reporting on who held the pen and how the law was drafted? Judging from some of the provisions like Article 64, it must have been someone who is familiar with both legal systems. – Kaihsu (talk) 18:53, 19 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Consensus against the proposed title, but there may be a consensus for a different, shorter title; any interested editor may open an RM for such a proposal at any time. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 04:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong national security law → Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region – There are two national security law in Hong Kong after 19 March 2024. In order to ensure reader understands dual national security law exists in Hong Kong, we need move existing page which is enforced in 30 June 2020 to the correct law title. And add a new disambiguation page on current title Cloud29371 (talk) 12:19, 20 March 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Cloud29371 (talk) 13:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering (talk) 00:32, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Object for now: "Hong Kong national security law" remains the official short name and the common name of the Chinese-imposed law, at least for now. The new title would be too long and not concise, and the hatnote already indicated there are two security legislations in the city. May hold for now and see if other names would be derived for the national security ordinance, the national security law, and the two combined in the future.

~~ J. Dann 14:18, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Object With two different titles, there is no need for a disambiguation page and a page move. The hatnote is clear enough. The Banner talk 15:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both law official name includes safeguarding national security, i.e. both law are officially named as national security law. Cloud29371 (talk) 23:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The hatnotes does not provide a direct and intitutive way to let user know both national law are officially enforced. Besides, the 2024 national security law contains more regulatory information than 2020 one. Cloud29371 (talk) 23:18, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

More importantly, the 2024 national security law are actually more regulative than 2020 national security law, and current practice may mislead the user to think 2020 is the main national security law while 2024 is the sub national security law or 2024 version is less important.Cloud29371 (talk) 23:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Could this page be moved to Hong Kong national security law (2020) or some variant to provide disambiguation? The 2024 law has also been called a "national security law" in Western media [1][2][3]. Natg 19 (talk) 17:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the comment. This is to add additional, unnecessary disambiguation parameter, which needs to be avoided. Cfls (talk) 18:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, current hatnotes does not provide a direct and intitutive way to let user know both national law are officially enforced. Besides, the 2024 national security law are actually more regulative than 2020 national security law, and this is very important. Cloud29371 (talk) 23:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not opposing the original move proposal nor supporting it. However, I oppose any act that may add additional disambiguation parameters. My opinion is that the two laws inherently have different titles, which can distinguish them simply by their names. This is also the case on the Chinese Wikipedia. Adding any additional disambiguation parameters to the original titles is unnecessary, and the new titles can be arbitrary as they are literally invented on Wikipedia. I hold strong opposition against inventing or adding anything to original names of laws on Wikipedia. Cfls (talk) 23:53, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is both two official law includes the word "national security law". If we don't "invent" anything, then the original name is "Law of the People's Republic of China on Safeguarding National Security in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region" which some wikipedian think it is too long. Cloud29371 (talk) 01:48, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably Law on Safeguarding National Security in Hong Kong? Cfls (talk) 02:02, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose proposal, support alternative move to 2020 Hong Kong national security law or Hong Kong national security law (2020) per Natg19's suggestion and to clarify the topic immediately. And the 2024 article probably needs to be moved as well, though it may be too early to determine the common name. We use common names, not the full spelled out name - we don't have Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 for example, which is just a redirect. SnowFire (talk) 18:40, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@SnowFire actually yes, 2020 Hong Kong national security law is better than my original idea. Natg 19 (talk) 20:05, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note Linking must be correct. If it is in a "direct and intuitive way" that is a bonus but being correct is by far the most important. The Banner talk 23:39, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Another issue is that, 2024 national security law are actually more restrictive than 2020. Besides the 2024 authorized the HK government make national security by-laws, which 2020 one do not. Current practice sound mislead the reader than 2020 is the main security law while 2024 is the sub-law. Cloud29371 (talk) 23:46, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A move is about the title, not the content of an article. The Banner talk 00:14, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know, the title "Hong Kong national security law" refer to 2020 version of HK national security law instead of a disambiguation page may make reader think 2020 national security law are the main law or more important than 2024 HK national security law, while is obviously not. Cloud29371 (talk) 01:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support some move, although perhaps not to the very very long title. The 2020 disambiguation makes sense to me. The new law is also referred to as a "national security law" in media as noted above. The CNN link even calls it the "second national security law", Aljazeera similarly says "Article 23 is the second such security law since 2020", BBC says "the legislation, which expands on the National Security Law imposed by Beijing in 2020". A disambiguation page makes sense here. CMD (talk) 03:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More information : The Legislative Council of Hong Kong passed the law and effective on 23 March 2024. The detail of the law for final version are here. A local newspaper also summarised all point but in traditional chinese language. Please review the need whether we need to move the page or not again. Cloud29371 (talk) 11:01, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: we are not a news site. The Banner talk 11:23, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: But the HK 2024 national security law is new one. Cloud29371 (talk) 01:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And? The Banner talk 01:36, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. – robertsky (talk) 07:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hong Kong national security law → 2020 Hong Kong national security law – As stated in the previous MR, there is another "Hong Kong national security law" passed in 2024, Safeguarding National Security Ordinance, which has also been reported in sources as a "Hong Kong national security law". Move for disambiguation between the two. Natg 19 (talk) 21:20, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the 2024 law could also be moved to 2024 Hong Kong national security law, but not sure if that is necessary. I created a redirect for it. Natg 19 (talk) 21:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, sources use this descriptive title for both laws [4][5][6]. CMD (talk) 03:02, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral The two laws have different names, albeit long and not too clear. It would be sufficient to put in new redirects from a short name to the long name. With a dab-page for improved navigation. The Banner talk 07:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't that require some move? What do you want the dab page to be named? Natg 19 (talk) 16:21, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The current article title is sound and clear. There are also hatnotes sufficient for distinguishing the two articles. Oppose having a new name for the law. Cfls (talk) 16:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually both laws are Hong Kong National Security Law and both effective. Two article with one disambiguation page seems more accurate to point out this truth. Cloud29371 (talk) 02:17, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a new name, this is just prepending the relevant year. SnowFire (talk) 17:06, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination. Title was not ambiguous before, but now it is, so add the date. SnowFire (talk) 17:06, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and also we put the year in front of a lot of other events and laws Rusty4321 ^{talk contribs} 19:41, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. NasssaNser 09:16, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Might be better if we put the year at the end in parentheses. Andro611 (talk) 13:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.