User talk:VerruckteDan/Archive5

Illinois Project

Counties

Well, sorry you just cleaned this all up, figured I would start a new one here! Thanks for working on those templates. I have 400 more articles to assess, then I am going to finish up the townships, then I will help you with those templates. Hopefully I will be able to start helping you soon, haha. Thanks so much for working on those. There are two that if you could get too, [Kankakee County, Illinois]] and Kendall County, Illinois. All their townships will need to be moved since they don't include the county in the name title as the rest of the entire state does first, so they will have to be renamed on the template. I already did it for Kane County, Illinois's template. Got questions, let me know, going to start assessing now.--Kranar drogin 02:41, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, before I forget. Might want to move some of the links that they have on the template over to the actual County article in a "See also". That is your call though.--Kranar drogin 03:08, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Please remember to mark your edits, as you did to Template:Kankakee_County,_Illinois as minor when (and only when) they genuinely are minor edits (see Wikipedia:Minor edit). Marking a major change as a minor one (and vice versa) is considered poor etiquette. The rule of thumb is that only an edit that consists solely of spelling corrections, formatting changes, or rearranging of text without modifying content should be flagged as a 'minor edit.' Thank you.

That above isn't a big deal. ANyways, I personally have been leaving them plural, not having really thought of the other reasoning. I would say leave them plural for whenever something new is added, or if a city extends into another county it will be added. Most likely the person adding the city/village whatever will not take the time to add the plural name back in there. That is just my thought on it.--Kranar drogin 22:17, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Plural it is. VerruckteDan 22:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Having problems with Template:Piatt County, Illinois. It shows up there fine, but the articles it is all screwed up. Any help?--Kranar drogin 03:16, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I figured out the problem, fixed it. Anyways, I am pushing to finish the templates tonight. I have finished off a bunch so far. If you have time, would you be able to help tonight so we can get this done and over with? If not, I understand about being busy and doing other things. Boy do I! Thanks for all your help.--Kranar drogin 00:45, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Holy crap you were fast. I was just getting ready to hunker down and finish them, but you beat me to the punch! Thanks for your assistance in this!--Kranar drogin 18:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

		WikiProject Illinois Barnstar
		For you work on Illinois templates, I hearby award you WikiProject Illinois Barnstar. Keep up the good work! --Kranar drogin 18:36, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Townships

Now that that is done, i am going to continue to upload the maps for the counties to Commons so that they can all be recolored. Would you by chance still be able to do these? Let me know!--Kranar drogin 03:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I can still help. This project had kinda slipped my mind. I will get the Ogle County maps up this week as a start. VerruckteDan 12:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome! I just wanted to make sure. I will try and have all the maps done soon.--Kranar drogin 22:52, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Those Ogle county maps looks great! If you just want to keep creating the township maps, I can post them to the articles and switch the templates over to the Geobox if that is what you would like. I am going to try and finish posting the rest of the maps soon. I have been posting a bunch of images up as of late.--Kranar drogin 17:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think I will post the blank colored maps of each county first, that way you or others could use that as the base to create the highlighted maps for individual townships and speed up the process. VerruckteDan 18:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

That would be great. You are just editing them through MS Paint, correct? Just let me know which ones you post. Are the blank maps I am creating being helpful for you? Just want to make sure on that. Thanks!--Kranar drogin 18:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm actually using Paint.NET, which is basically just MS Paint with a better interface and more options. As for the blank maps, you don't need to post them for my sake. I'm using Census maps as the basis of the ones I'm creating so that the boundaries of neighboring counties are present. I will make a subsection here so you can keep track of what counties have been posted. VerruckteDan 18:56, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I will stop posting them up then, but I will see what categories are going to need to be created. That should help you out some so you don't have to keep creating them.--Kranar drogin 19:35, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Chicago districts

I have been asked if there is any way you could update the current maps for the city of Chicago districts such as Image:US-IL-Chicago-CA41.GIF. Basically, Tony was asking for something similar to Marion Township, Ogle County, Illinois such as how you did the township maps there, same coloring and whatnot. If you decide you would be willing to do this, here is where they should be uploaded to [1] under the same names that exist on the Wikipedia. That way we can have them deleted from here. If you don't want to do them, I think I will be able to do it copying your colors. Let me know man! Appreciate all your hard work.--Kranar drogin 21:03, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I started editing the map yesterday, however it will be a time consuming process. The census maps do not have neighborhood boudaries, so I can't get a map that shows both the Chicago neighborhood boundaries and the neighboring county/state/etc boundaries like I did for Marion County. Also, the base map has a lot of shades to its lines, instead of just solid black lines. This will require a decent amount of pixel by pixel editing to prevent remnants of different shades. So basically, I can do this, but it'll take awhile. VerruckteDan 22:53, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey! I was just pointed to this one Image:US-IL-Chicago-CA.png.--Kranar drogin 23:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I found that one as well, and used that as the base. Its better than the GIF file, but still has jagged shaded lines. VerruckteDan 23:11, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Illinois Freedom Bell

Another request (sorry!) is that I am beginging to work on the Illinois Freedom Bell, and I can't find a single infobox for bells. I found a generic one, but I was wondering if you would be able to create a template for bells by chance? Maybe called Template:Infobox Bell that would have these fields, prolly PGS coords, place for a picture, and whatever else you can think of? I am not very good at this sort of thing, so let me know when you get a chance on this also.--Kranar drogin 21:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, I wonder if this could be set up through geobox rather than infobox? We could put the GPS coordinates in then. Thoughts?--Kranar drogin 22:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this a bit. Using the Geobox may be a quicker way to accomplish this. Besides the location (town, county, state, country and coordinates) and the physical size of the bell, I'm not sure what other parameters might be necessary. If these are the primary parameters, then the Geobox would accomplish that. VerruckteDan 22:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I am thinking you are right. Here is what is listed we would prolly need; Weight, Diameter, Material, Yoke, Clapper, Location (town, county, state, country and coordinates), Casting Date, and Musical Note. It was also suggested installation date? dedication? cost? (if available) Designer/artist? Those are from Ivo, and think they are good ideas. Cause once we get this, not only do I want to use it for the bell I am doing, but for the Liberty Bell also.--Kranar drogin 23:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Before moving further into this, I'd suggest running this by User:Caroig. He's the creator of the Geobox. He may have some good insight/advice. VerruckteDan 23:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I would never have thought of having a Geobox for bells, but why not, the Geobox 2.0 template can accomodate real any object connected with geography without the need to set up a specialized template. The blank template is here: Template:Geobox/type/bell and that's all that's needed. It's just the Template:Geobox/type/all blank template stripped of fields which probably won't be needed for bells (but the template can still make use of them if needed, e.g. if an old bell is inhabited by some rare bat species the field animal can be added … joking about the bats, of course :-) As you can see, some fields are adjusted/"retyped". The default unit for length is km/mi (the Geoboxes will mostly be used for larger objects), the width field is "retyped" to diameter, the established dates are renamed too, if need you can add more, e.g. established3 and established3_type = recast etc. I would have forgotten, a test page is here: User:Kranar_drogin/Ogle_County/Illinois_Freedom_Bell.

I've put it in the same group as buildings which have pale yellow color. This is, however, not the final one. The Geoboxes haven't been used so far buildings and other man made objects so I only suggested this color. It could be anything but different from the other group colors in the series (see Template:Geobox/type/all). – Caroig (talk) 19:13, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I have tried putting in some free fields, they didn't take. I really think they should be up in features possibly, it was the clapper and yoke but found where they go now. Where would I put the person who designed it? Or in this case it would be Unknown for right now. It looks good, I like the yellow, and I have removed the national map since for something like this the state level should be good enough. Thanks!--Kranar drogin 00:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, "date" and "owner" under history, what are those fields suppose to be filled with? And the two fields under "Access", what am I suppose to fill those with? Just trying to get an idea here as I go along. Where would I put how much it cost to build or who designed it? Those are ideas from buildings and stuff. Thanks again.--Kranar drogin 00:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, Yoke isn't working. I have tried 0 and 100 and both come up with errors.--Kranar drogin 00:37, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Yoke should be fixed. I've added an author field which will get displayed above the material. It's a good idea to have this field, many man-made constructions have a known author/designer etc. The default text displayed on the left is Author but you can redefine it using author_type.

Cost and musical tone are such fields which are too specific to be included in the master template, but there are up to five free fields which can be filled with virtually any data … I saw them used for school districts for instance. So you might set up free1 field to contain the price and free1_type = Price, and if you're going to use this field systematically you can add it to the blank template.

As of the other fields, these are some of Geobox fields which I thought might be usable for bells. owner is a field which might be used for castles and other historical building which can be privately or state-owned, date is a field to be used for other important dates in the history of the geoboxed object which don't logically fit in the established fields, for example when a non-existing building was pulled down etc; access is a field used with mountains to describe whether the summit it accessible by a paved road or as a VI category climb, whether you can use it for bells in some way, it's up to you. Please, feel free to edit the blank template for bells, I only set it up but which fields are used and which not … time will show. Best would be to use the Geobox for several bells and you'll see which fields you find useful and which not. I might have put the aniaml field in the blank template as well, but it doesn't make any sense with the Geobox for a bell, yet as it is served by the same template as the geobox for mountain ranges the field can be added at any time. Hope I made things more clear, if not, don't hesitate to stone me … although I doubt you'd achieve anything by that, so you can just write me instead.

And finally, I don't think it's a common practice to put unknown into fields (in any infoboxes) when the data is missing or unavailable, they're just left empty. – Caroig (talk) 22:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates! The "unknowns" are just placeholders to see if I can find the info. I really didn't know what the other fields were for, is there maybe you could put an explaination up on the blank template page? Then later on I could reference back to it maybe. Sorry to heap so much work on you, but I think this turned out GREAT! Thanks Dan for letting us use your talk page too. I think this looks real good. I will try and do one for the Liberty Bell and see what happens with that, but after I hvae tested it a couple more times on my other page. Thanks again!--Kranar drogin 23:14, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there's some help at Template:Geobox/legend which is not always up-to-date but some there's some useful stuff. It's always been a problem for me to spell out the help in such a way Geobox novices would understand it, so I'd greatly appreciate if you can improve it from a point of view of a user. When more Geoboxes are used I'll try to link all fields in the legend to examples in existing Geoboxes. – Caroig (talk) 23:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Looks good guys. Glad I could help in my own little way. VerruckteDan 23:21, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Geobox for Illinois

Just figured I would tag on here again. I have started using the new geobox and changing things over. I was wondering, here is a test one I did first on Winslow, Illinois and Davis, Illinois. Seems the Village President is kinda messing up, and am I doing the Township right in it also? Let me know before I start changing all of these. Oh, and are you going to do a mass change of the old geobox, or do we just have to do it ourselves?--Kranar drogin 03:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I fixed the village president issue on the 2 pages you listed above. I haven't started any mass change from Geobox 1 to Geobox 2, because of a few issues I have with the newer ones that are still be discussed and tinkered with. Mainly, the fact that "What links here" will show all Geoboxes in one list, whether its a settlement or river, or mountain, etc. And second, the concept of one single template sounds nice but I think some features are so different from each other and require so many unique fields that wouldn't be used in other boxes that the Geobox template either keeps expanding with new parameter names or becomes more complex for editors to use because so many parameters will require that the left column name be changed. This concern is largely arising from the creation of Geobox Bridge. Anyway, I hope that made sense, and its probably a lot more than you were looking for. So to answer your question, I'm not in a rush to change over Geoboxes, but User:Caroig has been working on an automated script to do such things. VerruckteDan 13:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Louisiana parish maps

Hi Dan, I finally finished all the Louisiana Parish maps tonight. I made two version of each map (one with district boundaries and one without) except for Orleans Parish (it has no district boundaries shown on the original, so I left it that way - it is also the only map not in its article on Wikipedia). Removing the district boundaries was all by hand, and while I checked against the online census maps at http://factfinder.census.gov whenever I was unsure, it may be there are some errors. If you find any, please let me know and I will do my best to fix them. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

About the Maryland county templates

Just so that you know...

I see that you've removed some places from the county listings. For those incorporated communities, I'd originally included them from personal knowledge (e.g., have relatives who live at or near the communities, previous visits to the communities, etc.). For one of the unincorporated communities - Wicomico, I took this information from a map of Charles County (the county where I live) that was produced by the State of Maryland. The map I used can be found at this link. (need Adobe Acrobat Reader). Since I haven't been able to cross-check "Wicomico, Maryland" with a ZIP Code, I'll not add it back for right now.

Also, I had thought about listing "Suitland" (where the Census Bureau is located and the community where I lived more than 10 years ago) without the "Silver Hill" reference, but decided to leave it as Suitland-Silver Hill for the moment. There's no such unincorporated community as Silver Hill. "Silver Hill" is actually the name of the housing subdivision contained within cul-de-sacs (the subdivision has Suitland ZIP Code 20746) and, from what I know, it's still that way. Ditto for Lanham-Seabrook (I work in Lanham; the entire area is simply known as "Lanham, Maryland" with the ZIP Code 20706; if I could remember from years ago, the area referred to as "Seabrook" was situated along Maryland Route 564 (Lanham-Severn Road), which is about 3 miles or so from my office. I gather that the existing information about the counties and communities was carried over from Census Bureau's records.

About the non-breaking spaces - I had originally added the code for non-breaking spaces ( ) for multiple word locations to accommodate different sizes of video displays and to keep the entire name of the city, town or community from breaking across lines when a reader sizes down the browser window. →Lwalt ^♦ talk 03:06, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I was basing my edits (specifically the removal of Wicomico) on the lists of communities already present on the articles for each county. But there are often other unincorporated communities not listed, so if you feel it should be there, then by all means, add it back.

Suitland-Silver Hill and Lanham-Seabrook are the official names of census-designated places for which all the standard census demographic information is based around, which is why the articles exist as hyphenated locations. So any information about Suitland can be added to the Suitland-Silver Hill article. Having a separate article for Suitland would likely result in duplicate information or conflicting information as it is less likely that future edits would be made to both articles.

The non-breaking spaces are not needed in the templates because of the {{nowrap|[[Article name]]}} coding. The nowrap accomplishes the same thing and is the necessary code to properly display within the US county navigation box template.

I appreciate you help in finishing out the Maryland county navboxes. Keep up the good work. VerruckteDan 15:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Re:Geobox and Google Earth

Ok, I am glad to hear that things are still moving. I am still using the geoboxes. Thanks for all the help with the templates, they are coming along very nicely. I will begin to assist you in changing them over. I will start at the bottom of the list, and move my way up. So if you just want to double check what I am doing. With the example Fayette County, Illinois, all those redlinked places you have in villages are actually unincorporated, see [2]. I would say in prolly all cases that a populated place is in red, it is unincorporated. Thanks man for all your hard work!--Kranar drogin 02:32, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Connecticut crossings list format

Please keep lines in both directions. I like the lines you've got right now rather than the normal "table borders", myself.

Can you clarify this? I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Thanks. VerruckteDan 22:04, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've been noticing that you've been changing the format of the table List of crossings of the Connecticut River today, sometimes in very noticable ways. For a short time, I saw you had no table lines, then you brought them all back. I find the article easier to read with at least the horizontal (row) lines, and prefer it with lines in both directions.

As an aside, I like what you did with the new List of crossings of the Charles River. I hadn't been aware that they'd already included such a list in the main Charles River article. Denimadept 22:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Ah,I see what you mean now. That's actually not a "real change". Sometimes you just need to refresh the page after an edit or the lines aren't visible. I'm not sure the reason, just a small bug somewhere in the software. I have no intention of removing the horizontal lines, doing so would greatly diminish readability. I'm glad you like the way the Charles River list looks. Let me thank you for cleaning it all up after I added the extra crossings. I ran out of time last night, so it was nice to see it looking mish better this afternoon. VerruckteDan 22:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I brought it out to I-495 only. Assuming I followed the river correctly in Google Maps, it still needs to be brought further. It's hard to follow a trickle like that! :-D Denimadept 22:41, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Chester County

Which town are you from? I'm from Oxford. Otherwise, I wouldn't venture being awkward enough to ask, haha. Aepoutre 22:48, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm from Uwchlan Township (near Downingtown), but live in New Orleans now. VerruckteDan 23:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Macopin, New Jersey

Is the article on its way? Alansohn 21:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't planning on creating one. Another user added it to the template, I just confirmed such a place existed in Passaic Countyand placed it it alphabetical order. If you don't like the redlink, then I see no reason to keep it in the template until an article exists. VerruckteDan 22:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

State locator maps

Hi Dan, I have been making more US state locator maps and realized that some are less than 288 pixels wide. Is this a problem? I know that the Protected Areas Infobox maps are 288 pixels wide, but I wasn't sure what the requirements for the Geobox locator maps were. I can make the maps wider if need be, just let me know. There is a list of all the maps on my user page. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:58, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if that will create problems. I saw that you had put up some more of the maps, but I hadn't gotten around to creating the calibrated versions for the Geobox. I'll find one of the maps that's less than 288px and see if I run into issues. By the way, great work on the steady stream of new states. VerruckteDan 12:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I added Lake Champlain to the Vermont map - it is a different scale than New York, so I had to redo the lake borders. Thanks for checking. Michigan will be a real pain (as the Canadian borders are not on the Census maps I use and I will have to include the Candaian Great Lake borders. That and Maine (similar Canadian coastline problems, though not as bad as MI) and Florida and all the states east of the Mississippi will be done. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 14:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I did Hawaii just now and Maine was much easier than I expected. Michigan will be a pain and Washington state not much better, but the rest should be OK. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:00, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for catching the Florida coloration problem - I had pasted in Lake Okeechobee after doing the rest of the map (turned on the water bodies in the Census maps). Turns out Alaska is also chock full of foreign coastlines too - Canada and Russia. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:58, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Lake Mead reminder. I felt proud that I went back and added in the Great Salt Lake in Utah on my own. I am at 43 done (plus your DE) and they are all the easy ones - the remaining 6 all need foreign coasts and/or are more than one screen to stitch together (and there is a fair amount of distortion, so the stitching is a pain). Texas is four screens to stitch, plus a bit of the Mexican Gulf coast. Oh joy. ;-) Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:48, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I added Lake Mead to Arizona and Nevada, Lake Powell to Arizona and Utah, and Lake Tahoe to Nevada (California will have it too, should also have the Salton Sea too). A user on Commons left a message on my Talk page and plans to make SVG versions of these maps, so I may leave the last five (CA, WA, AK, MI and TX) for SVG versions only. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dan, The state maps are finally all done (AK was the last). User:Elkman is also making calibrated versions (see my talk page or his). Since you are a template guru, any idea why {{Susquehanna River System}} is suddenly always expanded (instead of collapsed to start)? See Larrys Creek or White Deer Hole Creek for examples - used to be the article opened and the nav frame was closed. Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks good, and I'm 2/5's of the way through the calibrated maps. I'm not sure of the answer yet to the Susquehanna template. Though I noticed that some other templates I've worked with are now collapsed instead of expanded. I think there was a change to the underlaying NavFrame coding, but have not had a chance to fully investigate. You might want to check Wikipedia:NavFrame. If I come across anything, I'll let you know and if you learn anything can you pass it my way. Thanks VerruckteDan 17:07, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip - reading through led me to something I tried which worked (so they now open collapsed, as before). Thanks again! Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 20:53, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Cato1986

Added to Natchitoches, Louisiana since I am a native check it out.

Gwangan Bridge

Gwangan Bridge map added as per request. JPBarrass 17:51, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Template:Hayward, California

Thanks for your work in getting the template code into the correct namespace. The only thing to keep in mind is that the GFDL requires attribution information to remain intact with the page, so it would have been better to move the page rather than to copy-and -paste it. (In this case, I've fixed up the page histories for you.) The resultant redirect can then be tagged for deletion; I usually consider it a CSD G6 case (non-controversial housekeeping). Thanks. — TKD::Talk 03:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, normally I would have done the move as you described, however I didn't discover the Hayward Template page until after I had created Template:Hayward, California from the code placed on San Mateo-Hayward Bridge. Anyway, thanks for clearing things up. VerruckteDan 03:36, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

"False" precision

I suggest, Dan, that you compare your coordinates with mine where you actually look at the resulting maps on the List of crossings of the Ohio River. Mine are closer to the mark than yours. I suggest you revert your changes, or I will. Denimadept 03:19, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I addressed your comments at Talk:List of crossings of the Ohio River#"False" precision. VerruckteDan 23:55, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

And I've responded. Will continue there. Denimadept 01:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Geobox

Thanks. The question is. Who wants to do all the conversions to the new box for the Pennsylvania State Parks? Doesn't sound like much fun to me. Dincher 23:19, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

• Thanks Dan, do you have a trick for converting old infoboxes? I will try the new Geobox on a few PA state parks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The only trick I'm aware of is using a bot to do the conversion. I've never used one, so I can't provide any guidance on what exactly that involves. I'm certainly willing to take on the process if an automated process eludes us. VerruckteDan 03:54, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I see you saw my attempt at Upper Pine Bottom State Park. Now that the two most important parks are done, we only have 118 to go. Seriously, Point State Park looks fine - I had set the width to 288 px as that was the old map and photo width, but am OK with the narrower width. I will tweak UPBSP next for consistency, thanks Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:30, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dan, the USGS GNIS coordinates and elevation for Upper Pine Bottom State Park are almost certainly incorrect - please see the article's talk page for a more detailed explanation. I will revert to the coordiantes and elevation I had entered. If I am in error, please let me know (probably best on the article talk page). Thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:04, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Your reasoning is very sound, it would appear that USGS is wrong and I have no problem with changing it back. In general, what are your thoughts on using the GNIS database for park coordinates/elevations as we convert to the Geobox? VerruckteDan 15:29, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(Unindent) GNIS are very fast - I emailed them and they fixed the coordinates and switched the source to the PennDOT map already (I have to double check their coordinates vs the articles).

I know Dincher used Topozone for the coordinates in almost all cases, and these seem to generally take their data from GNIS, so I think it is fine to use. I have added the PennDOT county map(s) link(s) to all the state park articles, which provide a check. In all but a very few cases (Prompton, Allegheny Islands, Erie Bluffs) these show the parks in question. So I have been doing trust but verify - enter the coordinates and then double check against Google Earth by clicking on them (the photo in Google Earth and park outlines help you see the park itself in most cases, though a few in IL are missing.

The checklist is a very good idea - I also want to add the townships at least to all of the articles (for large parks and parks in more than one county I am not sure about adding them to the Geobox, but in many cases to the Geobox too). I also switched Susquehanna State Park (Pennsylvania). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

For the sake of consistency, let's use the GNIS data. I switched the elevation for UPBSP to the new official GNIS data (coordinates were unchanged). Will double check LPSP and Susquehanna later. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good, GNIS it is. And kudos for contacting USGS about the error, its good to know they are so responsive. VerruckteDan 16:23, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Where is the info on the elevation of the parks? I have not found it on Topozone. Dincher 21:00, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

It is in the USGS GNIS website - the Shikellamy Overlook is 705 ft here and the Marina is 420 ft here. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 21:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Go here to search for whateer you're looking for. VerruckteDan 21:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I saw that you have been making those changes and I think I fixed Sand Bridge and Ricketts Glen to conform. I agree with you. Dincher 23:17, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

As a chemist, I am not sure that rounding meters to 1 decimal place on conversion from feet follows significant figure rules, but knowing a height to plus or minus one foot is knowing it to plus or minus 1/3 of a meter (roughly), so I am OK with it (as one decimal in meters approximates the 1/3 of a meters). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 01:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the Geobox to RB Winter and McCalls Dam. McCalls Dam has another coordinate discrepancy - I have let USGS GNIS know about the possible error. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:42, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Woke up early today and killed some time and found a pic for Elk State Park at East Branch Clarion River Lake. Again I won't have time to get to moving it into a geobox anytime soon. Dincher 10:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC) and there is a possibly free image for Kettle Creek State Park here Dincher 11:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

You can find it on the PennDOT Dauphin County map (which is linked on the park's article page). I could not find it in GNIS either - I will sometimes enter just the first part of the name, but couldn't find it under Boyd or Big Tree or Boyd Big Tree. Some other parks do not have GNIS entries either - Bucktail does not, nor does Allegheny Islands. I have had good results contacting the USGS, so I will let them know about these and would be glad to pass along any others we find. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:17, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I just looked at the PennDOT map and the Google Earth photos and the dot looks like it is in the park. The dot has an elevation of about 920 feet (according to Google Earth). If I contact them tomorrow, my guess is that USGS GNIS will have coordinates and an elevation in their database in a few days. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Dan, I will let GNIS know of the discrepancy with Buchanan too - I just point out what seem to be errors or omissions and so far they have agreed with me (corrected or added the data) in all but one case (not a park). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 12:29, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I answered at the talk page for the PA parks checklist, thanks, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dan, I heard from GNIS and have updated Erie Bluffs, Boyd Big Tree, Ibberson, and White Clay Creek Preserve, but not Varden (I will switch it to Geobox when I update). I also was going to update the Delaware White Clay Creek SP (does DE have twps?) and switch it to Geobox. On a different note, I have thought of you with the second anniversary of Katrina and hope you are doing OK. Take care, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Good work and Delaware does not have townships. They do have something known as Hundreds. I've never been aware of them in regular common use and I don't know if there are maps that show their boundaries. Thanks for your thoughts regarding Katrina, it's always nice hearing that the rest of the country hasn't forgotten about us (now if only the government could get its act together). VerruckteDan 04:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Mississippi River article

Can you help improve this article or get other people who live near (and preferably on) the Mississippi to clarify and source information. I feel like I'm reading some brochure in LA about going on vacation to the Mississippi. 64.122.208.184 15:45, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Two county seats

While making county templates for Iowa, I've run across a unique or nearly-unique problem: Lee County has two county seats. I don't know how to do this on the standard US county navigation box template that I've used for other counties, so I've used a basic table template instead. Would you please fix it here? Nyttend 21:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, Template:Lee County, Iowa now uses the US county nav box template. I had actually modified the county template several months ago when I encountered a NY state county with 2 seats. Keep up the good work on the Iowa boxes. VerruckteDan 22:29, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks much :-) Nyttend 22:40, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

One Canal Place

A {{prod}} template has been added to the article One Canal Place, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you endorse deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please tag it with {{db-author}}. Deiz talk 02:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Conversion question

Is there a simpler direct acre to square kilometer converter template that you know of? I can't find one, so I am still using {{convert}} to do that, but think it is on the way out (bot edits). I did find an acre to hectare converter, but the hectare is not officially favored here or in SI as an area unit. I also noticed the new PA and DE maps show up in the Geoboxes, finally solving that problem. Finally, thanks for fixing my "map last" forgetfulness. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 13:19, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't know of one, but perhaps it could be easily created using Template:Ft2 to m2. I'm going to give it a shot and I'll let you know how I fare. VerruckteDan 13:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I just set up Template:Acre to km2. I did some quick tests and it looks to work right. The only thng I haven't done is add a "singular" feature which would be beneficial for acres. That gets more complex and will require some research on my part on how to properly code that. But I think we can use this on the PA state parks since we reworded the intros a while back to get around the acre/acres grammar issues. VerruckteDan 14:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Wow, thanks (and see below). If you do get it to work for singular, please let me know. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 15:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I used it on Allegheny Islands State Park, works fine. It did take me a while to figure out you have to enter "precision=2" and not just "2"). Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 16:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for the barnstar - I appreciate it more than I can say, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:28, 3 September 2007 (UTC)\

(unindent) Thanks - feel free to tweak the course of Lehigh Gorge State Park as needed. If you want I can do Laurel Ridge's course - I have the maps and think I might do it based on the hiking trail from mile 1 to 60 (or whatever is the last mile). The other three were downstream order for the associated river, but here I figure the trail is easier. Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 19:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Pennsylvania State Parks Groundhog Award
		This award is given with respect and admiration to VerruckteDan for his continuing devotion to Pennsylvania state park articles and especially for all his work on the List of Pennsylvania state parks, switching to Geoboxes, and writing a conversion template. The bearer is hereby entitled to free admission to all Pennsylvania state parks, but is reminded that hunting for groundhogs in them is strictly prohibited. Ruhrfisch ><>°° 15:55, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Geobox 2.0

Hi, I was planning to inform you about the new Geoboxes but you've noticed anyway. I would like to thank you first for your support to the geoboxes, mainly to replying to all the questions raised at theit talk pages. I should have been doing that myself being their creator yet … I was working on the new Geoboxes, vacationing and … you're always so promt with your replies! Thanks again.

So why Geobox 2.0? There was still some work on the Geoboxes: eliminating bugs, adding new features or improving old ones and after each step there came spreading the update to all Geoboxes. Also Geoboxes for other geographic fetures were requested; I was somehow reluctant to create them as it would mean even more templates to watch and update. As most Geoboxes contain more or less the same fields plus a few specific to each perticular Geobox the idea to have "one to serve them all" crept into my mind. So here we are.

What are your thoughts? There are a couple of new fields and a couple of new features. Among them also the icon-flags, an idea which you didn't seem to be very happy with but I quite like it. There have been some redesign as to in which order the various fields are displayed in order to accomodate all the possible fields. I've also changed the calibrated templates' name to start with {{Geobox locator as requested by some users, it's more logical now given the maps have the word locator in their names and the Geobox field is also named map_locator. Don't worry, it's rather an internal change, no changes in any of the existing pages using Geoboxes are required, just if you add a new calibration, please use the new name. – Caroig (talk) 21:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the message, I'm more than happy to help in answering questions. I figure the more advice and experience I can spread the more editors will see the advantages of the Geobox. Version 2.0 looks good, and I think its an interesting concept to combine all types into one template. I'm still not really into the flag icons, as you said, but its good to have it as an option for those that do want to use it. I'm waiting for a clearer consensus on the proper use of flags before making a final decision one way or another, but thats beside the point. Now that the next generation is out there, I'm probably gonna to look at my idea of a "Geobox Bridge" and how it'd have to be incorporated into the master template (I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you in that process). Anyway, keep up the good work. VerruckteDan 21:16, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I'll be happy to help you with the Geobox for bridges. Generally you will just need to choose the corresponding fields from the master template and redefine their _type. I had a quick glance at {{Infobox Bridge}} if that's where your're gonna start. Seems most fields can easily be fit into some of Geobox 2.0 fields. – Caroig (talk) 21:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Great. Well, I'm not in a huge rush to get it done, so once I get into it, I'll get in touch. VerruckteDan 22:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:Infobox Weather wrapped

Template:Infobox Weather wrapped has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — MJCdetroit 16:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Pennsylvania Project

Mr. VerruckteDan. I have lived in Towamencin for almost 30 years. I will not go into details as to what brought me to the "WikiProject Pennsylvania", but when I found that Towamencin Township, was in Wikipedia and I could contribute, I was elated. I am sure you have seen the additions I have been making to the Towamencin article. I was anxious to move it along, and was enjoying the process. However, I got sidetracked on another article I wanted to ADD to Wikipedia, but ran into some philosophical issues with one of the volunteer administrators, Leebo. Well needless to say, he is an aggressive editor, and now that I know he is not only monitoring my other article, which he nominated for deletion, but has injected himself into the Pennsylvania project, I will no longer be involved. I will only say I can not work with him. I appreciate your restraint as I tried to make the Towamencin article better, but since I will not be finishing what I started, you may want to remove everything I have done. Thanks again. Ailde 13:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Pardon my commenting, but I feel as though my actions are being misrepresented by Ailde. I became aware of his article Towamencin Township Strategic Plan when he asked a question on the help desk. Upon reviewing the article, I found it violated a number of policies, including no original research and verifiability. I asked Ailde for more information, and tried to explain the problems to him, but he did not address them and instead discussed reason why he feels Wikipedia should be different so the article could stay. See Talk:Towamencin Township Strategic Plan and my talk page. It would never be my intention to try to push away a good faith contributor, and I haven't taken any specific action in the Pennsylvania WikiProject. I'm not appealing to you, simply explaining my actions in light of Ailde's comment above. Leebo ^T/C 14:01, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

• My final response to anyone on this or any other subject; yes, as it was so aptly put in the preceding comment, I have been "driven away". Leebo pursues me everywhere I go on this site. Now he just wants to defend himself like some wronged suitor. He seems to have to much influence within this community. I believe he harms it. You must decide for yourselves. Again thank you Mr. VerruckteDan for allowing me to attempt to assist you with the Pennsylvania project.

Ailde 14:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:CCCD_Seal.gif

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:CCCD_Seal.gif. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. ~ Wikihermit 19:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Geobox 2.0

Hi, there's now a tool to convert any page using Geobox 1.0 to a page using Geobox 2.0; well, it just produces reformatted text which have to paste in the page manually but still … here's the announcement: link. Unfortunately, I do not not how to create bookmark for IE or Firefox that could take a parameter (the page address). – Caroig (talk) 23:09, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Bridge Geobox

I noticed you were working on a geobox for bridges (sandbox6). Any samples to show yet? I saw that someone made a geobox 2.0 template for bells and I think we could make one for bridges as well, based on the Geobox|Building template. I was thinking about making one, but I wanted to see what you've already come up with first.

Skeetidot 22:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I stopped working on the bridge Geobox a few months ago and then when I became aware of the Geobox 2.0 in works, held off to see what that end result would be. Anyway, sandbox 6 is all that I have done right now and User:VerruckteDan/sandbox7 is a test of what it looks like so far. I'd have to look around, but somewhere in a pile of junk is some hand written notes I made as I was trying to lay out what parameters I thought would be useful. I was trying to improve on the current Infobox and address some of the shortcomings I had encountered with the Infobox. Anyway, I need to do more reviewing of the Geobox 2 code before getting back into the process. So the contents of sanboxd 6 and 7 is pretty much as far as I got. Take a look and see what you can come up with. VerruckteDan 03:47, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd put the specific type of bridge later in the details and just write Bridge or a basic description of the type (i.e. Cantilever Bridge) in the heading to make it consistent with other geoboxes.

In terms of Geobox 2.0, it should link off of the building/structure geobox with the yellow heading. As far as other fields I'd add, I just did a really quick search of a few bridge articles, and I noticed fields for:

- Total length

- Main span length

- Clearance

- Year built / opened

- Year closed (if applicable)

- Average traffic (AADT)

- Owner (i.e. PennDOT)

I'd also check other bridge websites, like http://nationalbridges.com/. A friend of mine is a historic bridge researcher/photographer and we're in the process of creating a bridge mapping website, so I should be able to get more input.

Skeetidot 18:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I hope you won't mind my 2c here. This is just a good case to test how easy/difficult it is to set up Geoboxes for new features.

As of the colors, they're here just to help distinguish between various "families" of features, everything to do with water should be blue, all sorts of protected nature areas green, mountains, ranges, valleys, caves and all other sorts of geology-related features brown etc. And one color should be set for buildings (and generally all man-made constructions), currently it's the pale yellow … there's no logical reason for that, it was just a color not in use and distinct from the existing ones. But that's all these colors do, if you switch the "type" at a protected area to say river, nothing will change, all fields will display correctly, just the color will be different.

Actually, one thing does change, for most types the basic units are the large ones (kilometres/miles, square kilometres/miles) but if a "Building" Geobox is set the basic units are metres/feet and square metres/feet. One would hardly want to use kilometres for buildings, so you would always have to use the length_unit = m field (just this one, all other lengths, heights etc. would adjust accordingly).

And as of the fields, more approaches are possible:

• First, you can use an existing field either unchanged or with the label changed via appropriate _type field. This way requires no changes of the Geobox code.
• Second, an existing field could be used but the label will be changed automatically by the template when an appropriate Geobox type (i.e. Bridge) is set. Some fields are handled this way, e.g. when the Geobox type Settlement is set, the standard Location label is replaced by Center. Thgis requires a change of the Geobox code.
• Finally, when there's no corresponding field a new field might be added into the Geobox, in the case of bridge probably a traffic field.

My idea at this stage would be to try to set up (in someone's user space or as a subpage of this template) a few Bridge Geoboxes using {{Geobox|Buildingand the existing fields. Plus using the existing fields and an appropriate _type field to change the label. This way we would find those which we might be added to the Geobox code so that users don't have to use the _type fields (however, the blank template might do that as well). And also those which need to be added to the Geobox code.

Sorry for this legthy story, I just thought it might help to write a few words. – Caroig (talk) 19:49, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I worked on a bridge template! Here is the bridge geobox template I have so far, using pieces from the standard Geobox 2.0 template, VerruckteDan's geobox template, and fields from the National Bridge Inventory (http://www.nationalbridges.com). Please look at it and let me know what you think. Feel free to make any improvements as well! Skeetidot 01:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Since the bridge template example I had for the Crescent City Connection was overly complex, and since I hadn't heard anything about creating a bridge geobox in two weeks, I tried a simpler example. See this example, feel free to make and updates, and let me know if we could add this to the types of geoboxes (for example, there's a Geobox|Bell). Skeetidot 04:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I never responded from the last round of messages on this. I got distracted and it slipped my mind. I'm gonna take a look at it and make some comments later in the week. VerruckteDan 01:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use disputed for Image:New Orleans Fleur de Lis.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:New Orleans Fleur de Lis.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

County template

In reference to {{McKenzie County, North Dakota}}, please stop adding a SOUTH Dakota category to an article about a NORTH Dakota county. I will create the ND navigational box category and place this template in that category. --MatthewUND^(talk) 23:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

My apologizes, a very careless typo/oversight on my part. VerruckteDan 23:47, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

No problem. --MatthewUND^(talk) 00:28, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Geobox 2

Would you please have a look at Template talk:Geobox#Issues and add your comments? Thanks. – Caroig (talk) 09:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Wisconsin County Templates

Hey, can you help me create more county templates for the state of Wisconsin. I started with the Milwaukee area, and now I'm going alphabetical. Thanks from all the Cheeseheads! WisconsinCheeze 00:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure, not a problem. I will make it the next state I tackle. VerruckteDan 21:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

And you are doing an awesome job. :) I patrol the new pages list for the templates and I see your name in there quite a bit. As a native Wisconsinite, I say thanks. :) --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 11:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Pennsylvania project Leebo

• Mr VerruckteDan; I have been told by one of my associates that Leebo is up to his old tricks again. I explained to them what an aggressive Administrator he is, and that he was watching, (as I thought he might be), and he would mess with their work, and delete anything, “HE” believes does not belong there. I was not surprised when told that he had done just that. I am asking you to intervene, and keep him away from Towamencin. If someone is going to monitor the work done there, they would, and honestly, I would prefer it be you. Can you do something about this cyber stalker? He is an unemployed uneducated pest, and someone needs to do something about him. Perhaps if he got a real job, with a salary, he would not spend so much time here harassing those trying to make real contributions. All he does is impose his own ideas upon other peoples work. He stalked me, so I stopped contributing, but now he is stalking the Towamencin page as a whole. Will you, can you help?

Ailde 17:24, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

• I posted the above request yesterday, but I assume you didn't see it, so I moved it here. Thank you.

Ailde 10:28, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Ailde, you might want to review Wikipedia's policy against personal attacks. Leebo ^T/C 16:51, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, I probably should recommended this before, but perhaps another wiki would be better for this strategic plan information. It doesn't belong on Wikipedia, and Wikipedia has very strict definitions for accepted content. Another wiki could probably offer less strict requirements. Perhaps you can locate a regional wiki or something at list of wikis. A city wiki seems to describe the type of wiki that would be best suited for this info.Leebo ^T/C 17:14, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

• Mr. VerruckteDan; I came hear to your discussion page hoping to find a response from you to my plea, and instead I find more ramblings from your colleague, so called, defending himself for exercising poor judgment when destroying someone else’s work. Then he cries when such behavior provokes a negative response. It is regrettable that I can not get any assistance from you. I suppose I will have to appeal to the higher authorities myself. If you have input to them regarding Leebo’s conduct, it is appreciated. We just want this kid to focus somewhere else, or throw him off the site, we don’t really care. Now I must leave, I can not spend all of my time on Wikipedia, as others do; unlike some, I have a job to attend to. Ailde 18:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

You are free to report me to other administrators at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents if you think action should be taken against me. I'm willing to have my conduct reviewed by other trusted members of the community. Leebo ^T/C 18:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I have looked at the edits, and I agree that the entire Towamencin Township Strategic Plan does not belong on Wikipedia, and that its removal is within the guidelines and policies of Wikipedia. Ailda, I'm sure you will be disappointed with my opinion, but that's that it is. If you continue to feel that this situation is unfair, then I too encourage you to pursue it further within the procedures of Wikipedia. I don't really feel a need to get involved in a long and drawn out discussion on this topic, I did not comment any last month because I thought the situation had played out by the time I read the messages. So, I'll leave it at that and hope that everyone can move forward. VerruckteDan 01:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Clinton, Mississippi

Hi. Could you give me a link to where you're getting all the info from such as coordinates and population density and elevation? The coordinates change you used puts the city in a dirt patch in the woods. Also I'd like to see why such a drastic difference in population density than the source I used when I installed the new info box. Thank you. -- ALLSTAR ECHO 23:26, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The coordinates are the coordinates originally from the Geogrpahy section. They come from the Census Bureau. The elevation comes from USGS, there's a link cited in the Geography section. The population density changed so much, because you mistakenly entered the metric value. VerruckteDan 00:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize

for letting myself drag out this discussion with Ailde on your talk page. It's a discussion that should be taking place at his talk page or mine. Sorry. Leebo ^T/C 01:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

No problem. If you want to continue here, I'm not really opposed. However, if I decide to archive the current contents of my talk page (which will probably be in the next week or two), I'd ask that any further discussions at that point not directly involving me be held at another talk page. Thanks. VerruckteDan 01:40, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

• Mr. VerruckteDan: I have been trying to have a discussion with you, while my “stalker” has been intruding into it. Although I do not agree with your response, it is good to finally see one. I have been on this earth a very long time; add both yours and his age together, and one of your friends, and you might come close to mine. I know what an encyclopedia is, and I know what can and can not be in one. I was using an encyclopedia doing term papers, and other research, when your fathers were just a gleam in your grandfather’s eyes. I have worked and contributed in industry for many, many years, and you are both wrong. At best this is a gray area, and for that reason alone, it should have remained. This is a volunteer sight, which will never compete with the likes of the Encyclopedia Britannica. If it is going to be more than that, full time professional employees should be hired to do the updating, and the rest of us should be locked out from making changes. How can you expect people to spend their own time and resources, free of charge, if they are not allowed the freedom of the “gray area” to include those things that, “aggressive administrators” want to exclude, but are of real use? Not the blatant advertising that some try sneaking in, but something such as the strategic plan. I have seen some very graphic language used against "this kid" on his “talk page”. He is upsetting a lot of people. These administrators have too much power, and are too arbitrary on what stays and what goes. I have seen a lot of information out here that could be deemed removable, but I would not, because it fits that gray area. If you believe the “guide lines” for this site dictate such removals, then you are wrong, or they are wrong. Well, I am finished with this topic; I haven’t got the time to spend trying to educate the site, and I don’t plan on coming back until individuals like "this kid", and others like him are extricated from the site, or better trained. I will let my colleagues fight the next battle.Ailde 10:59, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

• Ailde, people using "graphic language" on my talk page are usually vandals, people whose intent is solely to corrupt the integrity of the encyclopedia. Serious contributors respect our civility guidelines and our no personal attacks policy. Leebo ^T/C 12:03, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Ailde, As I said before I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion on the subject. Clearly, your view of what Wikipedia should become is different than what it currently is and different from the direction that the current guidelines and policies are saying. Part of the beauty of Wikipedia is that it evolves and is comprised of a community of thousands of editors around the world. As such, since you have a strong concern about a current policy you should explore the is issue in the forums of Wikipedia.

On the specific topic of the Strategic Plan, I see no reason to not reference the plan in the Towamencin article. A section can discuss the goals and elements and perhaps the history of development. This section should be sourced and provide a link to the plan (which is hopefully on Towamencin's website, I have not looked). However, reproducing the plan word for word on Wikipedia is excessive. If a reader wants to see the entire plan, they should visit the external site where the plan is hosted.

Finally, I'd ask that you keep the discussion focused on the topic at hand and not digress to issues such as the age of myself or other users. I think you will be more successful at having productive discussions with other members of the Wikipedia community. I personally find it condescending when someone older than me speaks down to me or assumes their age automatically makes them more knowledgeable or mature than me. I'm sure others feel the same. It is both unfair and unproductive to make broad assumptions about people based on age or other characteristics, and serves only to distract discussion from the actual issue at hand. VerruckteDan 22:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

New Orleans buildings and photos

Hi. I noted on the New Orleans Wikipedia project talk page months ago that I often have a chance to take some photos around town about once a week. I took a fair number around the CBD recently, but only noticed now that there are many articles about New Orleans skyscrapers (often started or substantially improved by you) that lack images. So, let me know if there's anything you might like me to take a couple pix of in town. P.S.: Thanks for your good work! Cheers, -- Infrogmation 20:53, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Taking pictures around town has been something I've wanted to get to for a few weeks. There's nothing specific that I want a picture of, I guess just add things as needed. Anyway, glad you appreciate the skyscraper articles. I look forward to seeing the pics you come up with. VerruckteDan 01:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

FL Main page proposal

You either nominated a WP:FLC or closed such a nomination this year. As such, you are the type of editor whose opinion I am soliciting. We now have over 400 featured lists and seem to be promoting in excess of 30 per month of late (41 in August and 42 in September). When Today's featured article (TFA) started (2004-02-22), they only had about 200 featured articles and were barely promoting 20 new ones per month. I think the quality of featured lists is at least as good as the quality of featured articles was when they started appearing on the main page. Thus, I am ready to open debate on a proposal to institute a List of the Day on the main page with nominations starting November 1 2007, voting starting December 1 2007 and main page appearances starting January 1 2008. For brevity, the proposal page does not discuss the details of eventual main page content, but since the work has already been done, you should consider this proposal assuming the eventual main page will resemble either an excerpted list format or an abbreviated text format. The proposal page does not debate whether starting with weekly list main page entries would be better than daily entries. However, I suspect persons in favor of weekly lists are really voicing opinions against lists on the main page since neither TFA nor Picture of the day started as weekly endeavors, to the best of my knowledge. Right now debate seems to be among support for the current selective democratic/consensus based proposal, a selective dictatorial approach like that used at WP:TFA or a non-selective first in line/calendar approach like that used at WP:POTD. See the List of the Day proposal and comment at WP:LOTDP and its talk page.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 18:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Request to look at a page (or two)

Hi Dan, Larrys Creek is going to be Today's Featured Article on Friday, October 19. Would you mind taking a look at it before then? I and some other editors have looked closely at it recently. Based on what we found, I have gone through and done a lot of little nitpicky cleanup edits, but would appreciate it if you could take a look.

Also, if you have the time, Dincher and I have another list in Peer Review: List of municipalities in Lycoming County, Pennsylvania. Any thoughts or feedback there would also be appreciated. If you are busy, don't worry about it. If you have a litle time, looking over either would be great. Thanks in advance, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Black Peark, New Orleans

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Black Peark, New Orleans, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.prescriptiondrug-info.com/drug_information_online.asp?title=Black_Peark%2C_New_Orleans. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot 04:03, 20 October 2007 (UTC)