Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ernandes Dias Luz

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. !votes casted after additional information was found + the nominator's withdrawal suggests that he now meets WP:NSPORT. Ron Ritzman (talk) 12:24, 30 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ernandes Dias Luz

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Contested Prod, Non notable footballer who hasn't played at the highest level fails WP:ATHLETE Mo ainm~Talk 11:48, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Football-related deletion discussions. —Mo ainm~Talk 11:50, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep and improve: Luz plays for Ceará Sporting Club which, according to its Wikipedia article, plays in the Campeonato Brasileiro Série A, the highest level of professional football in Brazil. That qualifies under WP:ATHLETE as far as I can tell. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:09, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He is signed for them the article states that he has not played for them thats the difference look at this AfD player is signed to Fulham FC but has not appeared so the article was deleted, so until he plays a competitive game then he hasn't played at the top level, his club are notable not him. Mo ainm~Talk 12:15, 23 September 2010 (UTC) Doc Quintana (talk) 19:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Missed that fine point. Thanks for pointing it out. !Vote changed. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Cleanup Keep I don't agree with the Fulham example above. Even signing with a team is enough for WP:ATHLETE in my opinion. Doc Quintana (talk) 14:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

So you have made up your own interpretation of what Athlete says as it clearly states A player who signs for a domestic team but has not played in any games is not deemed to have participated in a competition, and is therefore not generally regarded as being notable. Maybe you should propose that addition to Athlete and see if you can get consensus for it.Mo ainm ~Talk 14:49, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The snarky reply aside (anyone can change an MOS with a click, and there are rarely clear consensuses over grey areas like that), if this player is going to get playing time with Ceara very soon, then it makes no sense to delete it only to see it recreated sometime soon. This is why I think a Delete is inappropriate versus a Cleanup Keep. More information is needed to determine the notability under WP:ATHLETE. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doc Quintana (talk • contribs)

Sorry if it seemed that my comment was snarky as it wasn't meant to be, and I said you should make an edit to ATHLETE to see if it gains consensus, but as it stands it fails the guidelines we have at present about football players and per WP:CRYSTAL we can't have a place holder article for someone who may or may not get a first team game. No amount of cleanup can make this article at present pass GNG or ATHLETE, as he has not played at the highest level. Mo ainm~Talk 20:27, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As the article is entirely the product of one user, userfying it until such time as the player gets a first team game (if he does) would solve the placeholder problem. Jimmy Pitt talk 22:40, 23 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 14:32, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:ATHLETE and WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 14:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - without appearances in a fully professional league, or significant coverage, this player fails all relevant notability guidelines. Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:59, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - with the newly added sources he passes WP:ATHLETE. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:42, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete until the subject attains notability under WP:ATHLETE. It makes sense to remove and then recreate. --Stormbay (talk) 17:18, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails all relevant criteria. Argyle 4 Life^talk 02:34, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I cleaned up the article a bit and added some sources. I couldn't find any reliable information about his earlier career (it seems strange that a lower league Brazilian club has been loaning out a player for four years, often to higher divisions). He definitely seems to have played in the top division of Brazil this season though. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:51, 27 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - Ernandes has made over 20 appearances in the Brazilian top flight and clearly satisfies NSPORTS. He is very likely to pass the GNG, once someone has the time to clean up the article. Thank you to J Mo 101 for finding that he had indeed played in the Serie A (I also added a match report showing his debut). Jogurney (talk) 14:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Meets WP:NSPORTS by a fair distance with the new sources and the information is verifiable. Alzarian16 (talk) 09:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep source indicates he has played in notable football league (Brazilian Serie A) Eldumpo (talk) 17:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw AfD With the further evidence added to this article I withdraw this nomination as I would now !vote keep. Mo ainm~Talk 18:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.