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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. I see quite a few here calling for leaving this AfD open until after the election, when we'll have a much better idea about lasting notability for this candidate. The Keep !votes are more numerous, but the Delete and Redirect ones carry more P&G weight. So I'll close this as no-consensus, and allow for early renomination two weeks from now, when the subject's political status, and the resulting source coverage, is clearer. This makes more sense than relisting, and then expecting those who voiced their opinion before the election to amend their !vote, or the closer trying to discount !votes based on when they were entered. Owen× ☎ 21:04, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Sheehy (businessman)

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Tim Sheehy (businessman) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This is actually a second AFD. The outcome of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Sheehy (American politician) was a strong consensus to redirect, with two "delete"s and no "keep"s. This new article was created as a redirect to the same target [1], on the grounds that in the Timothy Sheehy disambiguation page he's "not a politician yet". Another editor came along a week later and recreated the last article from that new redirect. A Google search for him, minus the word "Senate", turns up no significant coverate in reliable sources as a businessman or a soldier. The US is now three weeks away from a national election, and all of the major candidates are getting heavy press coverage. db-repost was declined, and the declining admin took a straw poll of editors from the last AFD at Talk:Tim Sheehy (businessman), and all have upheld the last consensus so far. So this article should be deleted, as it's really a renamed repost of Tim Sheehy (American politician). If Sheehy wins, then that article should obviously be un-redirected and expanded. Wikishovel (talk) 13:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify Sheehy does not have sufficient notability as a political candidate and businessman; Sheehy has never held public office. Should Sheehy win, we can make the draft an article. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 17:29, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not voting on this AfD but this does make far more sense, to throw my own two cents in here, since he does have potential to become notable very soon. Don't delete the draft with such a high probability of him being elected within the next 3 weeks and 2 days. EytanMelech (talk) 02:37, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep.
There are likely thousands of undecided voters in Montana who don't know much about Sheehy, so they'll be coming on Wikipedia to look up information on him. Why would we disenfranchise them by deleting his page???
This is not like Delaware's senate race where it won't matter. This is a major senate race where almost every outlet says Sheehy is favored. It would seem that by deleting this page and denying valuable information to voters, it means you're seeking to help his opponent win. I had no idea Wikipedia was a partisan site seeking to help one candidate win by making the other seem less serious, but here we see i suppose? 2601:CF:0:9A0:B227:9473:F80D:C5D5 (talk) 02:55, 15 October 2024 (UTC) — 2601:CF:0:9A0:B227:9473:F80D:C5D5 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 2601:CF:0:9A0:B227:9473:F80D:C5D5 (UTC).[reply]
Please see WP:ITSIMPORTANT. Wikishovel (talk) 07:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - He is a candidate for US Senate from Montana. Putting aside my belief that this even in itself merits an article creation, he has additionally been covered in a lot of sources, both local and national and even international. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] Zlad! (talk) 03:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP
Tim Sheehy is a major party candidate in a Senate race with major national attention. This race has received millions in spending on advertising, and voters in Montana deserve easy access to basic information on the candidates running in their race. It should also be noted that in an extremely contentious and likely close election, Tim Sheehy is the most likely of any Senate candidate to flip a seat. There are pages for far less notable figures who stood no chance of winning. There seems to be no reason to delete his page except for partisanship.Is — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scooter3 (talk • contribs)
I'm not American, and the outcome of this election means nothing to me, so partisanship (and an anonymous poster above accused me of the same) is not the problem here. As for pages about less notable people, please see WP:WHATABOUTX. Wikishovel (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep He is ahead in the polls, and is pretty likely to be Montana's next senator. Why delete? Im a democrat myself, and I think that thousands of undecided voters will look at both pages. Wikipedia shouldnt be biased, especially in a major tossup election. Lukt64 (talk) 03:57, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:ITSIMPORTANT. It's true that he's ahead in the polls, and if he does win, then as I said in my nomination at the top, Tim Sheehy (American politician) should be unredirected and expanded. Wikishovel (talk) 07:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and restore the redirect. I have absolutely no idea why this was restored, as people notable for just being candidates have no presumptive notability. SportingFlyer T·C 04:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There are a number of keep !votes above and below which say he should have his page kept because he's a candidate. He wasn't notable before, the page was only restored because he's a candidate, and we deal with enduring notability. There are plenty of candidates from all over the world who failed to win the election and ten years later would not deserve a page. I think that's the case here. If he wins, then we can restore it, otherwise redirect to the election or possibly his company. SportingFlyer T·C 18:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I've always believed being a major party nominee for federal office should be noteworthy enough to have an article. AvRand (talk) 07:22, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, but the consensus at WP:NPOL from a far higher number of editors than you and I decided otherwise. Wikishovel (talk) 07:56, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NPOL states: Just being an elected local official, or an unelected candidate for political office, does not guarantee notability, although such people can still be notable if they meet the general notability guideline.. Djflem (talk) 07:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As the creator of the page (as well as a Democrat living in Montana), I believe that he is, without question, notable enough for Wikipedia, even if he loses. If he wins, I would probably be in favor of moving the page to Tim Sheehy (American politician) or a new page titled Tim Sheehy (senator). If he loses, I still believe he's notable enough for a Wikipedia page because he founded Bridger Aerospace and was a former Navy SEAL. MontanaMako (talk) 15:00, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:NOTINHERITED: articles about heads of notable companies regularly get redirected, if they're not notable independently of the company. Not meeting guidelines for notability still applies, even if notability is claimed for three separate things. Wikishovel (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep His aerospace company has a Wikipedia article because it's notable, and he has had numerous articles written about him as a candidate in one of the two most important Senate races of 2024 (Montana and Ohio, since West Virginia is guaranteed to flip after Manchin left). Bill Williams 20:47, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:NOTINHERITED: articles about heads of notable companies regularly get redirected, if they're not notable independently of the company. Wikishovel (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please see WP:WHATABOUTX and WP:ITSUSEFUL. If Sam Brown is judged to fail Wikipedia's guidelines for notability, then that article should also be nominated for deletion. Wikishovel (talk) 11:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Calwatch: can you provide some examples please? In a search for his name, excluding the word "Senate", the coverage in reliable sources is quite poor. Wikishovel (talk) 22:01, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A search earch with navy seal, Bridger Aerospace, Mudlsingers, Afghanistan, or any of a number of combinations will provide many many hits and articles about Sheehy, so whats the purpose of the suggestion? Djflem (talk) 06:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The purpose is to find "coverage that he received prior to filing for candidacy", as User:Calwatch suggests. I couldn't find much, and that's ostensibly what this article is about, Tim Sheehy the businessman. A redirect to Bridger Aerospace would be fine by me, unless of course he wins the election. Wikishovel (talk) 07:29, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: This AfD suffered from large scale infestation by canvassed votes, as evidenced by the many inexperienced participants relying on irrelevant arguments to keep the page. However, even if we discard those, there's still no consensus either way. Relisting to get more P&G-based views.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 17:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per SWinxy, same rationale should be applied to Eric Hovde Microplastic Consumer (talk) 20:09, 20 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Leaning keep. I am inclined to think that his notability as a businessman and author is sufficient, even if coverage of these aspects of his life comes primarily in the context of his political campaign. BD2412 T 01:06, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment WP:POLOUTCOMES suggests that a redirect to the race is an appropriate outcome (and those pages can contain verifiable information about the candidates). In general, we know that NPOL is largely a pass/fail criteria, but even if a subject fails NPOL, they can still pass GNG. The next question is whether the subject is known only for one event (which can encompass a political campaign), and to an extent, we often make a guess about the enduring notability of the subject.
Candidates are hard to make a determination on whether a stand-alone article is appropriate especially when a candidate may only be known for their political campaign (and not public figures prior or after the campaign). If a candidate does have a stand-alone page, is deemed now and forever notable, any (past or future) verifiable information (flattering or unflattering) can be added to the page (with few recourses for a living person, and fewer recourses for a deceased individual).
I say all that but conclude that in the last 20 days before an election, passions about political candidates run high, and it can be hard to be objective in AFD, and harder yet to delete a US candidate running as a major party nominee for US Senate. And, it is especially hard if a candidate who is leading in the polls does not have a stand-alone page but their opponent does. If the subject is not elected November 5, my suggestion would be to revisit this discussion to truly determine if the subject is a WP:BLP1E. --Enos733 (talk) 05:27, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think it's unfair to be quick to delete an article on a candidate who is strongly favored to become a senator. Not to mention Sheehy has other facts outside of his senate run (such as his business). I also think it would be unfair to only have one page for a two-candidate race in what is arguably one of the most competitive senate races in the U.S. this year Dancingtudorqueen (talk) 03:29, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Keep There are multiple articles mentioning Tim Sheehy. This de facto makes him a public figure. LaMoria1 (talk) 20:56, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Sheehy is not just a generic candidate running for U. S. House or U. S. Senate who has no chance of winning; he is a candidate in an election that is widely seen as one that could decide control of the United States Senate. Even though media coverage of him is related to his campaign, there is a large enough amount of substantial media coverage about Sheehy as a person that I would argue he meets the GNG. I also reject the notion that his article should be deleted if he doesn't win the election; if an article is genuinely notable at one point in time, it should always be notable absent a major change in how we define notability. Jackattack1597 (talk) 00:23, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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