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15� wheel/tire dilemma

Hey folks,

Looking to gather some experienced opinions to assist in decision making.

I have a 77 911 with 15x6 and 15x8 RSR finished original Fuchs in ok condition- no damage at all just in need of paint and a bit of tlc. The issue is that tires for these (205/50 & 225/55 or 50) are pretty much limited to racing tires or Pirelli classics. The Pirelli tires are what I currently have and they desperately need to be replaced but at $1200+ for a set... ouch.

So I�m torn about biting the bullet for the Pirellis or buying a set of 16x6&8 and then tires. Which would probably hit $3k pretty quick.

I don�t race or track the car so the unsprung weight of the 15s isn�t important but I am concerned about the 16s being too tall for a narrow body car.

I dunno, as I write this I�m thinking that the 16� make the most sense unless someone can point me to tires that won�t bleed me dry.

Thanks in advance!

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Old 11-29-2020, 05:29 PM
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If you complain about $1,200 for a set of Pirelli P7's for your classic 911, you should probably get another car...
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:48 PM
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Thanks for the constructive feedback! 👍🏻
Old 11-29-2020, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Showdown View Post
Thanks for the constructive feedback! 👍🏻
Typical forum fauna.
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly911 View Post
If you complain about $1,200 for a set of Pirelli P7's for your classic 911, you should probably get another car...
You'd be a lonely 911 owner if all of us that winced at $1200 for a set of tires dumped our 911's.. I'm so impressed how rich you are
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:05 PM
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As long as you're not driving in the rain the Toyo R888R is a decent choice. I've put 10K miles on mine and no issues, plenty of tread remaining. They are about half the cost of the Pirelli.
Old 11-29-2020, 06:07 PM
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wait, if your '77 is still a narrow body, you can't fit a stock 8" fuch with 225's on the back.

are you running SC flares in back? that opens a lot more options...
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:13 PM
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They fit. PO had the car mocked to mimic an SC (painted white, wheels, carrera spoiler- now removed)



Old 11-29-2020, 06:33 PM
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Pirelli CN-36 is probably the tire original to the car.
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Old 11-29-2020, 06:38 PM
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I bought a set of four Sumimoto tires for about a third of what the Pirellis would have cost in a slightly different size than stock/original. The previous owner of my car had the same size on the car for years, and I haven't noticed anything untoward or dangerous in 3,000 miles of street driving at 7/10ths, max.

195/65R-15 Sumitomo HTR A/S P02 (H- or V-Speed Rated) SL

Totally get you about that $3k wince, I love taking care of my car but $3k on a wear item is a real bummer. Good luck!
Old 11-29-2020, 09:17 PM
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I run 205/50/16 and 225/45/16 R888�s but... the rears are 6�s I had widened to 7�s with the offset on the inside. I run 13mm spacers and it all fits fine under stock narrow rear quarters. All of that said I only run this set up on track. The r888�s are sticky but very noisy. They would not be my choice for dd tires. Plus they are terrible in the rain. For dd I run stock 15x6�s with 205/60/15�s.


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Old 11-29-2020, 10:30 PM
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Those sure look like 15x7's, and that's about how 7's fit in the rear of a narrow 77. I can't see an 8 fitting back there, you might double check that size.

Regardless, if they are 8's, dump them and get some 7's, you'll be able to fit a lot more tire options back there.

I run Vredestein Sportrac 5 in 205/60/15's on my 7's, just barely fit on my narrow 75.
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Last edited by RetroSC; 11-30-2020 at 07:02 AM..
Old 11-30-2020, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Showdown View Post
I have a 77 911 with 15x6 and 15x8 RSR finished original Fuchs in ok condition- no damage at all just in need of paint and a bit of tlc.
I too have a 1977 911, it is still a "narrow body" with original wheel flares, is yours?

As other have pointed out, 8's on the rear will not fit no matter how much you want them too. Only exception I've read about is ET (not J's) off a 944 and cant in the wheels 1-1/2". Will not make for a better handling car despite the extra rubber.

I've had 50's series tires on my 15 inch wheel rims, felt they looked short like golf cart tires. They did not fill out the wheel wells, the large gap looked stupid next to a car with the proper diameter (60 series as 65 and 70 just are not out there in my width).

I like this link below because it provides an Percentage diameter difference to the original (%).

1977 Porsche 911 SC Coupe tire and wheel sizes
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/tire/1977/36665/porsche_911_sc.html
Quote:
Percentage diameter difference to the original (%):
I have J6's up front and J7's in the rear (Phone-dials not Fuch's).

The rubber I have is all-season Goodyear Eagle no longer made so I'm looking at in the spring getting raised white letter BF Goodrich T/A Radials.

More of a muscle car wheel, but I'm not going over 120 mph anyway. Might have the white letters face out, can always flip them to the inside if it's too Hot Rod looking.

Front on J's 6" wide R15

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/tire/1977/36665/porsche_911_sc.html
Quote:
Rim size (in): 15

Alternate tire size: 205/60 R 15

Total wheel diameter (mm / in): 627 / 24.7

Percentage diameter difference to the original (%): -1.9

Rear on J's 7" wide R15
https://www.automobile-catalog.com/tire/1977/36665/porsche_911_sc.html
Quote:
Rim size (in): 15

Alternate tire size: 215/60 R 15

Total wheel diameter (mm / in): 639 / 25.2

Percentage diameter difference to the original (%): 0
Slight nose down pitch with these tire sizes, but from what I've read are very selection and stance common on our mid-year cars.

Photos from October before cleaning them up and putting them back on the car after two months of work.

Front:




Rear:





Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroSC View Post
I run Vredestein Sportrac 5 in 205/60/15's on my 7's, just barely fit on my narrow 75.

I might run that on all four corners, haven't decided yet.

I've shave the rear inner lips but worried once I lower the car will have rubbing issues.
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Last edited by kach22i; 11-30-2020 at 07:34 AM..
Old 11-30-2020, 06:56 AM
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I have a 85 Carrera and it came from the factory with 15 inch 7s and 8s. I remember the "good ol days" when the tires were available and a set of 4 was $450 to $500. Those days are gone.

Like you I looked for tires hard and all that is left is minivan tires in the wrong sizes, or the overpriced Pirelli tires in a P7 or the P600. Not great tires for 2020 and expensive for 15 inch tires.

I do like to go to the autocross and I drive on long road trips in the rain so autocross tires are out, as they are scary in the rain. I finally just gave up and bought some Euroemister 17s and great tires are out there. Yea, they are heavy, and I can tell that in an acceleration run, but I never drag race so I do not care. I wanted tires that work on the highway in the rain, or in dry conditions.

Good luck finding tires for 15s. If they ever come out with the right tires, I will get my 15s from the attic and be happy.
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Old 11-30-2020, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RetroSC View Post
You'd be a lonely 911 owner if all of us that winced at $1200 for a set of tires dumped our 911's.. I'm so impressed how rich you are
If cost is an issue, then change out Fuch's to cheap Chinese Minilite reproduction wheels that are lighter than many Fuch reproductions.

Cheaper yet is the Phone Dial (original to some 911's), only 1/2 lb heavier up front, 1 lb heavier at the rear than original Fuchs and still lighter than many aftermarket Fuchs.

To take cost out:

Cheaper wheels.

Cheaper tires not speed rated above 120mph.

And more importantly going with minivan or muscle car all-season tires over that of short life sticky summer only tires.

Changing out tires every 6-7 years verses every other year is a huge cost savings.

Yes, you will have to relearn how to drive your car on higher profile less sticky tires, but the challenge can be fun and prevents you from becoming an idiot speed racer on public roads.

BF Goodrich T/A radials:
https://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tires/radial/radial-t-a.html

I think the 215's are too wide on a narrow body rear end, I need to see if 205's on rear and something slightly narrower up front is wise considering no issues with current 205's up front. It's the the 215 rears may be tight once lowered. I've taken 250 lbs out of my car and the rear has risen like a loaf of bread. Maybe will play with cant angle once corner balanced in future.





The 215/60 R15 on j7's do stick out too much on the rear.

EDIT:

Back on the cheapness thing, rotating tires of the same size even if on different size wheels F&B may extend tire life.

On my 1977 narrow body R15 205/60's all the way around these (see below) seem to be a good value.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bfgoodrich-advantage-t-a-sport/p/31342
BFGoodrich $99 each
Advantage T/A Sport
205 /60 R15 91H SL BSW

Better deal than the lower speed rated and probably softer sidewall raised white letter (brown letter) cousin below.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/bfgoodrich-radial-t-a#
BFGoodrich $132 each
Radial T/A
P 205 /60 R15 90S SL RWL

And the one below disappointingly I cannot find in same exact size.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Defender+T%2BH&sidewall=Blackwall&partnum=965HR5DTH&tab=Sizes
Michelin $114
Defender T+H
195/65R1591H
205/65R15 (1/2" too tall)

EDIT-2:

Been checking out tire weights, lots of 20lb tires, a few 21 lbs, one 22lbs, and one at 19lbs and Made in USA.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?zip-code=48116&width=205/&ratio=60&diameter=15&rearWidth=205/&rearRatio=65&rearDiameter=15
BRIDGESTONE $115 each
ECOPIA EP422 PLUS (H- OR V-SPEED RATED)
Size: 205/60R15 91H

On the surface it makes some sense to go with a slightly lower speed rating to save a pound or two per tire - that is if having fun at legal speeds is the goal.

Current favorite and cheap but promising tire I've found.

https://www.discounttire.com/buy-tires/ohtsu-tire-fp0612-a-s
Ohtsu Tire
FP0612 A/S
205 /60 R15 91H SL BSW

NOTE: Its actually a re-branded Falken ZE612

Blogger's review:
https://myrandomtechblog.com/automotive/ohtsu-fp0612-a-s-tire-review/
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Last edited by kach22i; 11-30-2020 at 06:33 PM..
Old 11-30-2020, 07:30 AM
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I run 15x7 all around w/ Dunlop Direzzas 205/55 on my stock 70T.
Old 11-30-2020, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 76dno View Post
I run 15x7 all around w/ Dunlop Direzzas 205/55 on my stock 70T.
Please post a photo.

Did you have to roll or grind down the front inner wheel well lips?

Are you at "Euro-Height" or lower?
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Old 11-30-2020, 07:45 AM
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Narrow body midyear really looks best with 15, or 16" wheels to start. Secondly, 7" wide max. 8's can fit, but ride height suffers severely. If OP is correct, those could be 8's but look at his ride height and the tire sticking out. It just doesn't look right imho.

Here are some cars with better stance running 8" wide on a narrow body.

This one fits because it's the 951 8" which has more inboard wheel than the 911 Fuchs 8"



I think this one is a Fuchs 8" but a 15" Pretty massive camber to get low. I'm sure he has issues with rubbing.



This a 215/50 on 15X8 he needs a big gap to clear and not rub. See the ride height?






The easy hot rod setup on a n/b that would allow you to get low with no rubbing is a 6X15 up front, and a 7X15 rear (ET23) with 205/50 all around. I personally like the way a 6" looks up front and helps to offset the narrowbody balance.

I run a 205/50 6X15 up front, and a 225/50 7X15 rear (49ET 911R style) Like the guy who modified a 6" wheel with a 1" inside up above, this is the best option for wide tires on the rear of a nb for anyone who doesn't want safari stance.

Rolling fenders is pretty important too otherwise you cut up those expensive new tires.

Speaking of tires, the advan A052 is excellent summer sport with some rain capability. I also ran Pirelli Trofeos and drove them in the rain cautiously but better suited obviously to dry summer days.

For 15" special offset wheels (to run a wider tire on a n/b midyear) you have 4 choices:

1. Group4wheels makes a "Trick" offset "Torque Thrust" wheel in ET 32 15X7. I run a 225/50 on that with a very low stance. No spacer required
2. Maxilite makes a 15X7 ET 49 911 Replica. I run a 225/50 on that as well extremely low. 17-18mm spacer required
3. Custom wheels Fuchs starting with a reguilar et 36 15X6 and welding an inch inboard.
4. Original 911R wheels (6k a set?)


Here is 195/60 and 205/60 on 15X7's all around for a bit more sidewall on a 15"



17" look too big imho, especially with the n/b flair. But to each their own.




On 16" wheels, I found the best setup is the same as my above 15" recommendations.
205/50. My car on 16X7 all around 205/50



My car 15X6,7(911R) 205/50, 225/50



My car with 15X6, 7 (Group4wheels Trick Torque Thrusts) 205/50, 225/50

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Last edited by 75 911s; 11-30-2020 at 10:16 AM..
Old 11-30-2020, 09:57 AM
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Wow, what a great bunch of replies! Thanks a TON!

The paperwork that the PO gave me said 8" but I haven't had them off to inspect so based on the collective wisdom here I'm guessing the POs paperwork was incorrect and that these are 7". The POs knowledge of the car was pretty limited to "Porsche, 911, white)

I think the switch to narrower tires (195 or 185/215 or 205) and playing with the height will be the answer as I'm not keen on a new set of rims just yet with all the other work that needs to be done (SSI + Dansk sport, 11-blade fan, AC & smog delete, brakes, suspension...) Maybe new rims will be a next year project.


Also, 75 911s what color is that blue/green car you posted if you know. It's gorgeous!
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Old 11-30-2020, 10:22 AM
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Ice Green Metallic. Check out "dtowntech" on IG

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Old 11-30-2020, 10:28 AM
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