Theiss' Early Designs for the TNG Uniforms

[Karzak]

Yeah, it's definitely unique:

I always preferred the TNG Season 6 - DS9 Season 5 versions, myself:
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0346/5761/products/tng-admiral-burgundy-1.jpg?v=1401916063
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net...yev2370.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20060622121047
https://trekfoundations.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/journeysend025.jpg
http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200507/voy-198-admiral-bullock/320x240.jpg
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20140114174224&path-prefix=en

Though the Season 2 version was nifty also:
http://images.auctionworks.com/hi/3/3282/admiral-29.jpg
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...dth-down/180?cb=20121205121733&path-prefix=en

I never really cared for the Season 3-5 version.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20111111204516&path-prefix=en
http://media.tumblr.com/e3be844da81db5ebf0558ee169dd25fc/tumblr_inline_ms8rcoxOTb1qz4rgp.jpg

And the less said about Admiral Janeway's atrocity of a tunic, the better:
http://media.tumblr.com/3f24c026685ee25fd3f4e0a634d56dd5/tumblr_inline_ms8rb35zrO1qz4rgp.jpg
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20081109025430&path-prefix=en

 

[King Bob!]

I like that the costume designers could never settle on an admiral uniform for TNG. They kept changing up to season six.

I really liked the first season Admiral's uniforms with the asymmetrical cut that Theiss was so fond of (see Captain Kirk's green wrap as an example).

My favorite 24th century Admiral's uniform.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

I understood that the standard uniforms by Theiss were supposed to resemble human anatomy, but I could never get a handle on exactly what the logic behind the admiral uniform was beyond "it's a uniform OF THE FUTURE (future...future...future...). It's definitely out there, I'll give it that.

 

[Lance]

The ones with the 'side vents' remind me of the uniforms seen in the engineering test footage from Star Trek: Phase II. I do actually quite like the prototype ones seen in the black & white photo in the OP, they look like casual style space uniforms more than they do the 'space leotards' we eventually got. Stick some NASA style patches or something to them and they'd be set.

 

[Lance]

I've also noticed, that despite Blackman's reported interest in making fasteners invisible, there is a suspicious seam on the back of the later TNG uniforms which i always assumed to be a hidden zipper; and a darker seam on the DS9/Voyager uniforms on the front, aligned with the collar split, which could also be a candidate for a hidden zipper.
I can post screencaps later if needed.

Of course those were zippers. Where else would they go?

Re: TNG dress uniforms:

The first and second season versions were super long, too. Almost like dresses.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_011.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_064.jpg


They got shortened for the 3rd-6th seasons, and again for the 7th season. The cut of the gold piping changed as well.

Season 4:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-4/4x11/datas-day-hd-450.jpg

Season 5:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/season-5/5x21/the-perfect-mate-hd-347.jpg

Season 6:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s6/6x10/chainofcommandpartone068.jpg

Super shortened Season 7 version:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/s7/7x02/liasons012.jpg



Originally the pants for them were spandex, form fitting leggings almost (Lwaxana gets a gander at Picard's goods in "Manhunt"):

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x19/manhunt_hd_052.jpg


They switched to pants closer to what the standard uniforms used afterward.

Also important to note, but seemingly widely unknown -- this uniform (in it's last iteration before the Insurrection dress-whites) had a further modification, only barely visible in "You Are Cordially Invited..." adding the UFP logo belt to it that was later worn by various admirals in the FC-style uniforms. Voyager never utilized this modification, likely for the same reason they never switched to the FC-style uniforms.

You can (barely) see Bashir and O'Brien wearing the belts in this screenshot: http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x07/youarecordially264.jpg



Re: DS9 and Voyager Starfleet uniforms:

There were several versions of these as well. Originally we are led to believe they are jumpsuits/coveralls. The cut of the opening at the top changed as well, between seasons 2 and 3 of DS9. The season 1-2 version was tighter, and more pronounced, with the collar folding upward at its corners:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue008.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue047.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue164.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/prologue124.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x19/duet001.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x16/ifwisheswerehorses020.jpg


The season 3-5 versions were looser, for lack of a better term and seemingly more comfortable:

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x01/thesearch1_142.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x01/thesearch1_010.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x10/fascination_138.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x10/fascination_025.jpg

Note also, that the color of the undershirt/tee changes between seasons 2 and 3 from a lighter gray to (in some cases) a more mauve/lavender. This could also be due in some small way to lighting, I guess, but also clearly they switched the shirts as well.

Picard got a specially designed version for Generations, including (for some reason) a belt:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=56281&fullsize=1

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=56290&fullsize=1


By the time Voyager came around, the undershirts changed color again, and even the cut of the coveralls changed, and Janeway's pips in particular fasten to her collar in a much different way than they do with Picard, Sisko or any of the other Starfleet personnel, and the shoulder pads for all are much more pronounced.

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0099.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0177.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0137.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0209.jpg


Also, for some reason, Tuvok, Kim and the Doctor don't leave their uniform coveralls unzipped all the way, as we'd seen Sisko, Bashir, Dax, and O'Brien (and all other Starfleet personnel do previously):

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x19/rise017.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0208.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01a/caretaker_0416.jpg


Later in the series, we learn that the uniform is actually (supposedly?) a jacket and pants, not coveralls (or both):

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_099.jpg


Also revealed was that the undershirt/tee has a zip up the front collar:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_164.jpg


And that there are alternate undershirts that can be worn:

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_181.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/5x13/gravity_357.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x12/macrocosm_137.jpg

http://voy.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x12/macrocosm_143.jpg

Very interesting and informative post, Karzak. I hadn't really given it much thought until now that the DS9-VOY jumpsuits continued to evolve throughout their series just like the TNG uniforms did before them.

 

[J.T.B.]

I understood that the standard uniforms by Theiss were supposed to resemble human anatomy, but I could never get a handle on exactly what the logic behind the admiral uniform was beyond "it's a uniform OF THE FUTURE (future...future...future...). It's definitely out there, I'll give it that.

Yeah, a little over-styled for my taste. I always thought it was stupid for the admirals to have a uniform of a completely different design, anyway. The regular uniform with higher rank insignia would be fine.

 

[JedGelt67]

I don't think the differences in the earlier seasons of DS9 are considered strong enough to be considered a variant; call it 'manufacturing tweaks' or whatever.
I did read that the Voyager uniform was designed slightly differently from DS9, while to casual appearence the costumes are virtually identical; for VOY Blackman added pockets (and a belt i think. or some belt-like fabric). They were also a drop looser on the actors; and the removable jacket was a separate costume piece (i can't recall a single VOY instance of the jacket being unzipped) as the producers did not want a visible fastener the actors would wear a non-closing jacket for those scenes.

http://www.startrek.com/article/meet-emmy-award-winning-robert-blackman-part-2
A lot of the major costume changes came in the wake of First Contact, with the changes carrying over to Deep Space Nine and Voyager, etc. Take us through that window of time.
BLACKMAN: First Contact [Generations, not FC] was a very interesting experience because we essentially designed a uniform that, at the end of the day, didn’t work. And they were ex-ed out. So we kept The Next Generation uniforms and used those. Then, after that, when they went on to Deep Space Nine, we switched the colors out, to make it more serious, to make it darker. So that’s where I came up with the quilted shoulder panels and the dark jackets, and then having the division color just as a turtleneck. That came out of wanting to have a new look for the new series. And quite frankly, some of that was driven by the fact that they were looking for ways to keep their ancillary income coming in. They needed a new look so that they could make more toys, make more toys, make more of that stuff. So that’s one of the reasons why there was a uniform change with every series. That was one of the reasons. There were character reasons as well, but there was the notion that we needed to have a new look.
==
Let’s move on to Voyager. You were there from the start. What was your mission, costume-wise, on that show?
BLACKMAN: Rick wanted something that was a little bit more hands-on. So, for Voyager, we started with these very utilitarian uniforms, like NASA, but still within the Star Trek universe, as we had set it up. That means that there were no zippers, no visible closures. It all looks like it was all mysteriously put on them in the morning. Nobody knows how anybody gets into the clothes, theoretically. That was from Next Generation into Deep Space Nine and even into Voyager, but we added pockets and some small things to it. The costumes on Voyager, they were much more rough-and-tumble.

In the second part; it's possible the producers of Voyager were looking for an altogether new uniform from TNG and DS9; but eventually settled on a slightly modified DS9 look.
Certainly the grey quilted shoulder style was originally designed for FC, but worked well for the 'darker' DS9 themes, so they were able to make additional "dark grey" uniforms at virtually the same cost as the original DS9 costumes while the design and development costs were absorbed by the movie budget. The now-depreciated DS9 uniforms probably were probably used by extras on Voy.

 

[Karzak]

I think it's pretty obvious the Voyager "jacket" was a separate piece. In various shots throughout the series it's well apparent that the costumes are usually the coveralls version. The point being that (through the magic of TV) we are supposed to think it's all one and the same garment, the same way Ro's obviously spandex one-piece uniform in "Ensign Ro" winds up having a removable jacket when she goes to the refugee colony midway through the episode.

 

[JedGelt67]

^^I was thinking about Ensign Ro

 

[Doug Otte]

I always thought it must have been very hot in those latter TNG/DS9/VOY uniforms where they had a puffy jacket over the coverall over a turtleneck. But, you know how those 24th Century fabrics can automagically maintain a comfortable temperature, even if our heroes accidentally step outside an airlock!

 

[JesterFace]

I always thought it must have been very hot in those latter TNG/DS9/VOY uniforms where they had a puffy jacket over the coverall over a turtleneck. But, you know how those 24th Century fabrics can automagically maintain a comfortable temperature, even if our heroes accidentally step outside an airlock!

And those uniforms hide lovehandles and things like that, there are no fat people in Starfleet, or so they want you to believe...

 

[Tosk]

Note also, that the color of the undershirt/tee changes between seasons 2 and 3 from a lighter gray to (in some cases) a more mauve/lavender. This could also be due in some small way to lighting, I guess, but also clearly they switched the shirts as well.

I'm pretty sure the color difference is only due to cinematography and the difference in color reproduction between the seasons. (The image quality gets better each season of DS9.)

You can see the lavender undershirts clearly in a several of the promotional photos for season 1. The color they chose does seem to "go grey" very easily in photography.

 

[Lance]

I always thought it must have been very hot in those latter TNG/DS9/VOY uniforms where they had a puffy jacket over the coverall over a turtleneck. But, you know how those 24th Century fabrics can automagically maintain a comfortable temperature, even if our heroes accidentally step outside an airlock!

The reality, of course, is that the costumes were probably tailored to look way heavier than they really were. Things like the turtlenecks of the uniform etc are most likely simply a piece of fabric sewn into the top of the costumes, except in scenes where the actors are specifically required to remove parts of their uniforms. The 'smoke & mirrors' magic of Hollywood. As long as it looks "right" on screen then they can get away with it.

 

[Karzak]

Note also, that the color of the undershirt/tee changes between seasons 2 and 3 from a lighter gray to (in some cases) a more mauve/lavender. This could also be due in some small way to lighting, I guess, but also clearly they switched the shirts as well.

I'm pretty sure the color difference is only due to cinematography and the difference in color reproduction between the seasons. (The image quality gets better each season of DS9.)

You can see the lavender undershirts clearly in a several of the promotional photos for season 1. The color they chose does seem to "go grey" very easily in photography.

I don't know. It seems like it starts out pretty lavendar-y and then over the course of the series they lose the oomph from the intial dye jobs and then new shirts get issued. Certainly there are plenty of exampls of when it;s clear it's the lighting of the episode and color correction are to blame, but I don't know that I believe the undershirts were consistently the same color throughout the run of DS9 and Voyager.

 

[JedGelt67]

I always thought it must have been very hot in those latter TNG/DS9/VOY uniforms where they had a puffy jacket over the coverall over a turtleneck. But, you know how those 24th Century fabrics can automagically maintain a comfortable temperature, even if our heroes accidentally step outside an airlock!

The reality, of course, is that the costumes were probably tailored to look way heavier than they really were. Things like the turtlenecks of the uniform etc are most likely simply a piece of fabric sewn into the top of the costumes, except in scenes where the actors are specifically required to remove parts of their uniforms. The 'smoke & mirrors' magic of Hollywood. As long as it looks "right" on screen then they can get away with it.

In an earlier article I linked, Blackman states that he designed the uniforms to give the actors a more 'athletic' appearence, with tight undershirts and subtle muscle/abs padding (and less subtle) shoulder padding. "In the 24th century, people are more aware of the importance of health and work out continuously" or something like that. I think the mock turtlenecks were a full undershirt "most of the time" rather than "when script demanded it", and likely contained part of the muscle padding.