Talk:Fatima Massaquoi

Candidate for further collaboration?

@SusunW, Megalibrarygirl, 1bandsaw, and Rosiestep: I have been working on Fatima Massaquoi who appears to have been a highly active figure in Black Women's History. Not only did she stem from the royal families of Sierra Leone, she also contributed significantly to the cultural life of Liberia. She has gained prominence in the West since her early memoirs, The Autobiography of an African Princess, were published in 2013. Thanks to Duckduckstop, we already have a picture. Would any of you (or anyone else interested in Black Women's History) be interested in collaborating further on the article, perhaps again with a view to reaching GA (or at least getting the article to DYK)? While the interesting history of her autobiography could no doubt be expanded in the biographical article, it could also form the basis of a separate article on the book itself. I look forward to hearing your reactions.--Ipigott (talk) 07:36, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite Ipigott I'm interested. Let me see if I can find anything to contribute. SusunW (talk) 14:31, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: That's great. There's all kinds of stuff about her family heritage, copyright conflicts with her professor at Fisk and, of course, lots more biographical info from her autobiography. I am by no means a specialist in the field but you are well placed to know what's important. She apparently also compiled a dictionary of the Var language and wrote other linguistic papers.--Ipigott (talk) 15:18, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

a fair use stop-gap image. long term project to get a free one. maybe a talk with the holder / archives to digitize her primary source material. Duckduckstop (talk) 16:20, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

I'll see what I can find, Ipigott. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:09, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: Thanks for all your work on the article, especially the Harvard referencing. I have just spent an hour listening to her daughter's presentation at the LoC from your EL link: very interesting and informative. It contains a few published photographs. I don't know if it is possible to copy them. The one from Le Figaro showing her at the Unesco conference in November 1960 (displayed at 33' 42") is probably the most important. Can anyone (Duckduckstop?) copy this from the video for uploading onto Commons?--Ipigott (talk) 08:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

You are welcome Ipigott for the wee bit I did changing over references and adding newspaper articles. Cannot take credit for the external link. That was all Duckduckstop SusunW (talk) 15:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

hmm, that is a nice group shot, but we are limited to one fair use, maybe UNESCO might have some free material in their archives, i should contact the WIR John Cummings. Duckduckstop (talk) 20:11, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Duckduckstop would this one be useable? 1945? SusunW (talk) 20:55, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

good find. yes, it may be PD not renewed. i suspect it was registered; the Copyright office shows registration starting in 1978. [1] let me think on whether it was renewed or not. Duckduckstop (talk) 21:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: I have also found a useful journal article in a PDF file with www.google.lu/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZ9c7s0u_KAhWDWRoKHaHnBQQQFgg3MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscholarworks.iu.edu%2Fjournals%2Findex.php%2Flsj%2Farticle%2Fdownload%2F4154%2F3781&usg=AFQjCNF0LmSxEzPJeIBHgG2XoPnFJklKxw which Wikipedia will not accept. Does anyone know how to include an acceptable version of the URL in the references or is it sufficient to include the journal reference without a link? --Ipigott (talk) 15:42, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott will it take this? [2] SusunW (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott Can you please tell us the title of what you linked above as a PDF? It's not that Wikipedia won't accept it. I tried it on my computer, and it is a download directly to my computer. I deleted it without opening it. If you will tell me the title of what you have linked, perhaps I can find it somewhere else for you. — Maile (talk) 16:01, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Maile66 "Oration: Readjustment and Development of Liberia as an African State Delivered at the Celebration of the Independence of Liberia at Monrovia, Liberia July 26, 1921" Liberian Studies Journal XXXI 2006 is the name of it. But can you access the link I posted? SusunW (talk) 16:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: the link you posted automatically downloads it as a file onto my hard drive. I deleted it without opening. I don't think we should be linking anything that downloads onto a user's hard drive. Too risky for viruses. — Maile (talk) 16:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Maile66 That is weird. For me, it opens same as any PDF would. SusunW (talk) 16:12, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: It is weird, because my browser settings are to open PDFs, not download them. I see this same document on the internet as a .docx download, but I'm not downloading it. — Maile (talk) 16:16, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Maile66 Can you access this one without it downloading? [3] SusunW (talk) 19:30, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: Nope. It went straight to download. And, yet, this opens as a PDF without downloading. And I think I just figured out the difference. Note the end of the urls. What I just linked has .pdf on the end, and what you linked does not. 19:42, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Maile66 This is totally weird. They open the exact same on my computer. However, if you type [4] "pdf" at the end, it still works for me???? SusunW (talk) 19:56, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: Well, we can toss that theory out the window. It still went directly to download. However, this is with using Firefox. I just tried it on IE, and I got a message at the bottom of the page asking me if I wanted to open it, or download it. I chose neither, since I'm a little unsure about this whole link. But I think the automatic downloading is something in how Firefox relates to that link. — Maile (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: Thanks for sorting this out and for your other additions. I think I've more or less finished work on the text. Let me know if you intend to work on it further. Maybe we should include more illustrations before going for GA?--Ipigott (talk) 09:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@Ipigott and Duckduckstop: You're welcome, Ian. I'll give it one more look. Seems like each time, I find a bit more clarification. ;) Duck was working on another photo I found from 1945 (see above). I think it is probably free to use, but wanted others more experienced with that to check. SusunW (talk) 14:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: Yes, that 1945 shot seems to be OK as "This work is in the public domain because it was published in the United States between 1923 and 1977 and without a copyright notice." I'll see if I can upload it.--Ipigott (talk) 15:00, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I've checked it out. I can't download it from the 1945 page but I see it's the same image as the one published on the cover of her book. I don't know if it is in order to use that image as it is the same as the one published in a 1945 newspaper.--Ipigott (talk) 15:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott I have no idea. I have expanded the lede, added links to the Garwula District and Grand Cape Mount County and made a few minor adjustments/corrections to the text. Please review my work. SusunW (talk) 15:57, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

SusunW Looks good. Thanks in particular for your work on the lead. There's only one thing that may require further research. I think I read somewhere that it was Tuchscherer who accidentally rediscovered her works on microfilm. He then approached Seton for assistance in editing. In the LoC video, I remember Seton saying her mother had predicted that some day a man would find the manuscript and have it published. But I'm sure there are other references.--Ipigott (talk) 16:43, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott Now that you say that, I remember seeing that too. Hmmmmm. Lemme see what I can find. SusunW (talk) 16:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

• @SusunW: I've found it. The story of the manuscript's rediscovery is here. It actually looks as if it would be worthwhile including some of it in the article.--Ipigott (talk) 16:50, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

I also happened to find this.--Ipigott (talk) 17:20, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

That review is a spectacular find Ipigott! It brings "humanness" to the book, I think. Definitely should be incorporated. SusunW (talk) 17:29, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

SusunW Well, to tell you the truth, I came across quite a few reviews (or snippets thereof) but I was also toying with the idea of writing an article on the book itself, where the reviews would have been more appropriate. Perhaps that's the best way to proceed. What do you think?--Ipigott (talk) 17:45, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott I think we should have a link to the book itself, but I do think that the human aspects, i.e. violence, racism, and sexism should be briefly mentioned in the biography. Give me a minute or two and I'll add a bit for you to review. SusunW (talk) 17:51, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott Okay, I think it's discreet, but makes her more human. Fixed the manuscript find part too. Please feel free to make any changes you deem necessary. SusunW (talk) 18:50, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

• Thanks, SusunW. I reworded it a bit as there is quite a long explanation of the hand injury in the introduction to the autobiography. I noticed that the URL had somehow disappeared from the sources and reintroduced it as the informative introduction is accessible on line in full. I have a feeling the M'bayo review, however touching it may seem, is based mainly on the introduction. Most of what he says can be found there.--Ipigott (talk) 08:54, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott Thanks. I wish I had access to her whole book. It would be fascinating reading no doubt. SusunW (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

SusunW $66 from Amazon.--Ipigott (talk) 14:30, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott I now just have to figure out who I can send it to in the US who is likely to come calling soon. The duty on things from Amazon is astronomical. But that being said, I love the pictures. I think she's ready to be nominated. SusunW (talk) 14:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

SusunW: You seem to be good at handling the nomination process, so please go ahead. Perhaps our friend Dr. Blofeld will be interested in picking it up. In the meantime, I'll continue with the article on the book.--Ipigott (talk) 14:42, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Ipigott Done! SusunW (talk) 14:53, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fatima Massaquoi/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dr. Blofeld (talk · contribs) 15:17, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Was she born in 1904 or 1912? Box says differently from lede.

One of those blasted cases where secondary sources differ from her own account. SHE says she was born in 1904. I have corrected the lede.  Done SusunW (talk) 16:49, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "After completing her education in the United States, in 1946 she returned to Liberia, where she contributed much to the cultural and social life of the country through her active career at the national university and her establishment of related cultural institutions." -a bit long, is there a link for the national university too?

I've shortened it to say "she returned to Liberia in 1946, where she contributed much to the cultural and social life of the country." The link to the university is further down, where I think it is more important.  Done SusunW (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• IMO too much detail the circumstances of her education in the lede, and where I'd really want to know (the American universities she studied at) you don't mention them. Perhaps shorten to "In 1922 she accompanied her father to Hamburg, Germany, where she completed her studies in medicine at the University of Hamburg in 1937. She moved to the United States for further education, studying sociology and anthropology at xxx. While in the US, she collaborated on a dictionary of the Vai language and wrote her autobiography, though a legal battle ensued over the rights to her story.

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Serving as director and then dean of the Liberal Arts College, Massaquoi was committed to cultural preservation and expansion. " -do you mean at the college or in the general country? Perhaps add "national" before cultural if so.

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Serving as director and then dean of the Liberal Arts College, Massaquoi was committed to cultural preservation and expansion. She was the founding director of the Institute of African Studies, co-founded the Society of Liberian Authors, helped abolish the practice of usurping African names for Westernized versions, and worked towards standardization of the Vai script." -i would reword to: Committed to national cultural preservation and expansion, Massaquoi served as the then dean of the Liberal Arts College, and was the founding director of the Institute of African Studies. She co-founded the Society of Liberian Authors, helped abolish the practice of usurping African names for Westernized versions, and worked towards standardization of the Vai script."

Only changed to say director, later dean,  Done SusunW (talk) 17:00, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Early life

• In the lede you say her father became Liberia's consul general in Hamburg, but in the body you say it was her grandfather.

That somehow got discombobulated when the first and second sentences were switched. It was her father. Fixed it.  Done SusunW (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• link Garwula District and Grand Cape Mount County.

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• " This caused her considerable pain, hampering her ability to play the violin, although she later became a highly competent player" -not clear if this was terminal or just temporary.

The pain was temporary, the damage was permanent. I have added to the information.  Done SusunW (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Julia C. Emery Hall, attached to the the Bromley Mission in Montserrado County.[6]" -what town was this?

Clay-Ashland found a reference and linked.  Done SusunW (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Her father", "her nephew", as I've said previously, avoid starting new paragraphs with "her"

Changed it to his name  Done SusunW (talk) 17:29, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "She went with him to Hamburg in 1922, where she lived at the consulate at 22 Johnsallee and received her primary school education at St. Anschar Höhere Mädchenschule, quickly mastering German.[6]" -new sentence before "received".

Changed it to read " She went with him to Hamburg in 1922, where she lived at the consulate at 22 Johnsallee. Receiving her primary school education at St. Anschar Höhere Mädchenschule, Massaquoi quickly mastered German."  Done SusunW (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "attending the Helen Lange Schule where " -add comma before "where"

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "and then went on to study medicine" -new sentence, "She went on to study...

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Hans J. Massaquoi who was in Hamburg during the same period " -two commas needed

Changed to read "Hans J. Massaquoi, her nephew, who was in Hamburg during the same period..."  Done SusunW (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Link Nazi in first instance, not second, delink the second.

 Done SusunW (talk) 17:37, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

US

• In 1937 she -ditto

Not sure what you meant here, but have changed the sentence to state "Massaquoi arrived that same year in the United States and experienced the racial segregation and Jim Crow laws of the Southern States."  Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Link Vai language

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "She had agreed to accept the fellowship as a linguistic advisor, after her father died in 1938.[20]" -not sure why the past perfect tense is used here.

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Always avoid things like "In fact"

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Presumably this music teaching was also at Fisk?

Yes, fixed.  Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "In a letter dated 22 February 1944, Watkins writes that he encouraged her to write the "story of her life as a tribal child, in contact with and reaction to European culture as represented in Monrovia and the mission school, life and education in Germany and Switzerland; life in America".[17] Massaquoi finished writing the work in 1940, but was told that the English needed editing." -strange quote and context to use it. I wouldn't quote this personally and find a way to reword/paraphrase the whole thing, especially as the chronology is off. I would say something like, In 1940, Massaqoi finished writing an autobiogrpahical account of her early life as a tribal child, and life experiences with Europeans and education in Germany and Switzerland. Watkins later claimed in a 1944 letter that she had written the account upon his insistence."

I've reworked the section for better chronology and incorporated your suggestions.  Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "attempted to get the manuscript returned," -get and returned don't work here, needs rewording

Well maybe not in British English, but in Southernese... I've amended to "When Massaquoi attempted to retrieve her manuscript"  Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Thanks to her extensive travels and education, she spoke several languages—at least eight and four tribal dialects." I think the tense isn't quite right here following on from the other sentence, perhaps add "by this time" before "she spoke"

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Why link Vai now, and not first instance much further up? Delink.

 Done SusunW (talk) 18:04, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Return

• "In 1946, the Liberian president William Tubman invited Massaquoi to return to the country to help him establish a university. She returned on 13 October 1946 and, in March 1947, became Professor of French and Science at Liberia College, later the University of Liberia. Her university career extended until 1972. She was also director (1956), then dean (1960), of the Liberal Arts College, founding director of the Institute of African Studies and cofounder of the Society of Liberian Authors." -needs a reword all this, Try "Upon the invitiation of president William Tubman, Massaquoi returned to Liberia on 13 October 1946 to help him establish a university. She became Professor of French and Science at Liberia College, later the University of Liberia, in March 1947. Her university career extended until 1972. She was also director (1956), then dean (1960), of the Liberal Arts College, founding director of the Institute of African Studies and cofounder of the Society of Liberian Authors."

I reworked it incorporating and modifying information from the next paragraph.  Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "During her term at the university, she" -ditto

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "She actively contributed to the cultural and social development of Liberia, not least by promoting the standardization of the Vai script at a seminar she organized in 1962.[10][25] She also founded and headed the Institute of African studies.[1]" -this doesn't flow in the second paragraph, part of it seems repeated from the above paragraph. I would find a way to reword and merge to improve flow and concision.

Moved that section to the above and reworded.  Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "With a view to enhancing educational developments in Liberia, in late 1963 and early 1964, she spent " -ditto

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Isn't Monrovia already linked? If not I would probably add "in Monrovia" after Liberia College in the first paragraph

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• "Virginia State University" -link?

 Done SusunW (talk) 19:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

• Perhaps end on a quote from a critic on the 2013 release if possible?♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:15, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

added "Tamba M’bayo of West Virginia University, stated: “The strengths of this autobiography could be gauged at two or more different levels. First, its down-to-heart and honest account of even the most disturbing personal experiences…Second the larger canvas of Sierra Leonean and Liberian cultural and ethno-linguistic history in which Fatima’s story is told. Rich in content and well orchestrated…” "  Done SusunW (talk) 19:48, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Awards

Always dislike bullet points for this sort of thing. I think you should probably create a Death, honors/legacy section and mention accolades and the book publishing in prose in one section.

Converted to text, added dates added quote from her final tribute.  Done SusunW (talk) 19:48, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Looks very well researched and brings to light one of those really notable unsung African heroes. Excellent job.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:18, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Dr. Blofeld Thank you, as always for the thorough review. I believe I have addressed all of your points, though some I took some license with. Should anything further be needed, please ping me. SusunW (talk) 19:48, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

Thanks for the prompt response, excellent job everybody, another fruitful collaboration!♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:57, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Dr. B! You are a wonder! SusunW (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

DYK

Ipigott what are your hook ideas? I have a couple of QPQs done already. SusunW (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2016 (UTC) i

Thanks, SusunW, for handling the review so efficiently and adding some useful trimmings. Off to bed now but tomorrow I'll try to come up with suggestions for a hook. Well done! You have certainly contributed much to the success of the article.--Ipigott (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

We make a good team Ipigott. (Besides which, I have another ... so I needed to get this one finished.) SusunW (talk) 21:57, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW: How about "...that the black Liberian scholar and educator, Princess Fatima Massaquoi, wrote of her experiences in Nazi Germany and the US Southern States in a recently rediscovered autobiography?" If it's not too long, we could say "often difficult experiences". I'll leave it up to you. Let me know if you need any help with any of your other articles.--Ipigott (talk) 07:42, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Tweaked it a bit. Template:Did you know nominations/Fatima Massaquoi SusunW (talk) 18:27, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Birth year

I can not see that she could have been born in 1904. If she was born 1904 she would have come to Hamburg age 18. No regular school (and St Ansgar -not "Anschar"- was a private school within the regular system) would have taken her in at that age in a low class. Same for Helene-Lange-Schule when everybody else graduated around 18. I cannot open all of the book in google but i see nowwhere that a large age gap was anything of a problem, herself in a class of small kids. It would not have been possible for her to finish the Abitur (secondary school exit examen) in 1935 at age 31 (if born 1904) at a regular school like Helene-Lange-Schule. If born in 1912 she was already a bit old but still within the range.

Besides Smyke, Raymond J. (1990) writes "Fatima was born on 25 December, 1912" (Liberian Studies Journal,XV, 1 1990), page 48.

He gives some more details, eg. page 52 Fatima giving a lesson at age 15 in Vai class replacing her father who was traveling outside Hamburg - so she was 15 before 1929 (when the father left Hamburg) which does not work if she had been born in 1904. page 60 Smyke mentions that she was 51 years old in 1964. His essay seems well researched (even with some small mistakes I recognize when he writes about her German years - like misspelling of Ansgar, description of the Menschheitspartei...)

Another detail I have seen is the autobio of Hans Juergen Massaquoi (*1926) who remembers his aunt as a young women in her early Twenties visiting him and and his mother in their small flat which must have been in the years after 1933 maybe even a bit later. Moreover the article claims she graduated in medicine from university of Hamburg around 1937 (!) which is impossible with 1935 Abitur and only mentioned in the society page of that American newspaper but nowhere else. Kipala (talk) 19:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Kipala since you asked this on my talk page, I responded there User_talk:SusunW#Massaquoi birth date] SusunW (talk) 20:11, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

usurping African names

The article says she «helped abolish the practice of usurping African names for Westernized versions», but this phrasing is not clear for me. Instead of rewriting more or less successfully, I’d sugggest an example or two (sourced!) would clarify what’s meant. Tuvalkin (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2023 (UTC)