Talk:J. D. Slater

Unfinished

It's really hard for me to finish this item,someone pls help me. Wsklutz (talk) 10:15, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Probably instead of FINISHING the article WP might considerr deleting it for NO NOTABILITY - furthermore, it is a single sourced article with no in text citations! Roz Lipschitz (talk) 10:47, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

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Nom for deletion

subject has not won any awards. bio reads like it was lifted from a porn studio bio page. article has not been improved in nearly 10 years. 216.195.239.82 (talk) 20:57, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

removed delete tag, overlooked two real noms and one real award since article was last updated. article still needs major work. 216.195.239.82 (talk) 21:20, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Redirect

As noted in my comment at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/J. D. Slater (2nd nomination), most of the biographical content here is fictive, sourced to fraudulent and apparently self-promotional claims made by the article subject. Since no one is willing to reduce the article to reliably sourced content, WP:BLP requires removal of the article text. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 13:23, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Your WP:Original research was noted, and is generally unhelpful for Wikipedia’s purposes. Your arguments are generally mistakes and assertions on your own experiences were are perfectly valid for your beliefs but as I noted at the time

We can only go where reliable sources lead. I see zero evidence Slater has lied or deceived about his past, or even exaggerated facts to make his arguably under-reported life more interesting. I find the opposite is likely true, he doesn’t have ever seemed to take advantage of many opportunities for free publicity, doesn’t seem to have ever had a publicist, and never seems to have taken advantage of Raging Stallion’s in-house team to hype his career or even his dozens of movie soundtracks.

If we have evidence of mistakes, and not from original research but from reliable sourcing, then we can address them. For instance it’s common for a bigger band to have, or allow, multiple smaller acts to warm up the crowd before they perform. It’s completely unsurprising that they are not all documented, at all. Consensus didn’t go your way but that doesn’t mean we should “burn it with fire”.

By the way, that database you linked was helpful as it does lead to a John Duffy who has ... numerous musical theater composer credits from 1963-1969 including to one as a playwright although it’s a different title.Gleeanon409 (talk) 15:13, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

That is obviously not the article subject, who wasn't composing for Manhattan musical theatre at the age of eight or nine. In fact, it's this John Duffy [1]. When you suggest that your porn artiste collaborated with Donleavy and secured the rights to Yeats before finishing high school, you're treating the Wikipedia community as credulous idiots. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Possibly, but you can dial down the attacks. Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:16, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

That's your response? When you're caught in a transparent Trumpian falsehood, complain about being attacked. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 22:49, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

An honest math mistake (I thought he was 19, not 9), is no excuse for your belligerence. Gleeanon409 (talk) 00:56, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Your response is complete rubbish. WP:NOR applies to substantive article content, and has no application to the necessary process of evaluating sources. It is no more "original research" to say that a source is unreliable than to say it is reliable. My statement is no more forbidden original research than yours is. Your claim that "I see zero evidence Slater has lied or deceived about his past, or even exaggerated facts to make his arguably under-reported life more interesting. I find the opposite is likely true" is impossible to see as good faith. Slater claims to have a musical produced Off-Broadway, even though neither the production nor Slater appears in the standard off broadway database (Lortel) and no reviews turn up; its supposed later production at the Kennedy Center (!) is similarly undocumented. He claims that his band was on the bill for Talking Heads first NYC gig, even though that gig (opening for the Ramones at CBGB's) is well-documented and no source has turned up mentioning that (unidentified) band. Slater provides a long list of implausible self-serving claims -- eg, winning a series of full scholarships to an unlikely series of prestigious prep schools (despite having viciously beaten an elderly teacher in eighth grade); spending his high school years hanging around Manhattan rock clubs even though three of the four high schools he claims to have attended were in Aurora, CO; St Louis, MO; and Austin, TX; entering college at age 15; and on and on. Slater recites a fluid autohagiography to promotional interviewers, which porn industry outlets publish without a shred of factchecking. None of this is compatible with WP:RS and WP:V, and certainly isn't compliant with WP:BLP. This content is grossly unacceptable. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 01:30, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

What is grossly unacceptable is your editing against common sense and consensus, and your combative rather than collegial approach.

There could be dozens of reasons a production from that far back isn’t listed in a database, but the absence isn’t proof it never happened.

Likewise his attending multiple schools, he seems to have gotten good grades so it’s unsurprising that he would be let into one after the next on scholarship.

Or that on his off-school hours and breaks he pursued playing in bands.

Or that one of his bands played the same night as the Talking Heads. Clubs routinely have many small bands pad out early hours of a gig.

So this feels like a case of WP:I don’t like it, rather than you have one iota that anything he has said is a fabrication. Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:16, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Complete absence of third-party support for self-promoting extraordinary claims by the article subject, supported only by statements made in interviews published only in porn industry sources with no reputation for even minimal veracity, is compelling evidence that those claims do not belong in a BLP here. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 22:49, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

There are certainly reliable sources or this wouldn’t have survived AfD. Are they exceptional sources in each case? No, but I also don’t see “my fledgling punk band played the same night at a punk rock bar as band X” as being very exceptional. Gleeanon409 (talk) 00:56, 6 September 2020 (UTC)

Leader of the Pack

JD Slater has stated that his brother-in-law owned the studio where "Leader of the Pack" was recorded, and that he witnessed the Grateful Dead and Fleetwood Mac performing there. "Leader of the Pack" was recorded at Mira Sound, on 47th Street in Manhattan, co-owned by the husband-wife pair Bob and Lynn Goldman. Lynn Goldman is 20 years older than Mr. Slater; I believe (but am not certain) that she was born to a Jewish family and had no male siblings. Mira Sound moved to new premises elsewhere in Manhattan in 1967 (Slater would have been 12/13). By 1969, the building on 47th Street had been torn down and replaced by a parking garage. Cheers, gnu57 21:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Probably not Goldman although Slater did/does have three older sisters. Gleeanon409 (talk) 02:39, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: I think that this is an example of a possible fabrication by Slater: It's highly unlikely that he was in-laws with Bob Goldman, or that the Grateful Dead and Fleetwood Mac came to Manhattan to perform at the 47th Street studio before it closed in 1967. Cheers, gnu57 03:06, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

I recall him observing recording sessions which could have happened in any number of rooms set up as studios, and he was into the music scene since he was very young. That’s a far cry from deception. There is plenty of ways, especially in the music business at the time, to explain the apparent discrepancy. I find it harder to explain why he would fabricate The Greatful Dead. Gleeanon409 (talk) 03:42, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

@Genericusername57:, I’m missing the connection to Mira studio? The song seems to have been recorded, perhaps final mixed, at Ultra Sonic Recording Studios, Inc. northeast of NYC about twenty minutes in Hempstead, near where Slater grew up. The owner was Bill Stahl who married Anne in 1963. No breadcrumbs beyond that so far. Gleeanon409 (talk) 09:56, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

@Gleeanon409: Thank you, good catch. It appears that some instrumental portions of the song were recorded at Ultrasonic, while the Shangri-Las' vocals were recorded at Mira Sound.[2][3]. Cheers, gnu57 16:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Fleetwood Mac recorded at Ultransonic Studios in New York in October 74, possibly did shows earlier as well.

Grateful Dead recorded all over, still running that down. Gleeanon409 (talk) 18:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)