Talk:Masaki Sumitani

Translation

I basically translated the equivalent Japanese wiki: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BD%8F%E8%B0%B7%E6%AD%A3%E6%A8%B9.

I found some mistakes in Mainichi newspaper link. The name of HG's partner is "Izubuchi", not "Debuchi". I checked their Japanese official website from Yoshimoto Kogyo. [1] In addition, HG didn't make his debute in profesional wrestling in 1997 --it was his debute as comedian. HG actually made his debute as professional wrestler on Nov 3, 2005.

Thank you for the additions! I tried to work a little on the language on this article, to make it sound more natural to English readers. I removed some bits, but tried to integrate as much of the material as I could. Two things are not clear to me though: what is 2chome-gekijo? A comedy club? Also, was Kendo Kobayashi Sumitani's senior at Yoshimoto Shinki-geki, or Yoshimoto Kogyo, or are those the same thing? — MC MasterChef :: Leave a tip — 12:59, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction :) And here are some clarifications:

"2cho-me gekijo" is a multi-purpose hall which opened by Yoshimoto Kogyo in Osaka in 1986. The purpose of setting up this hall was to give more chances to younger comedians and find next generation's superstars. Many famous comedians like "Downtown" started gaining popularity from the stage in 2cho-me gekijo, and soon the hall became the contre of comedy among young people. However, the hall sort of became the centre stage of those comedians who started their successful career, and the original purpose of 2cho-me gekijo started falling apart. The hall was closed in 1999, and Yoshimoto Kogyo set up the new hall "baseYoshimoto" to serve the same original purpose.

Kendo Kobayashi is Sumitani's senior at Yoshimoto Kogyo. Just for the trivia, Kobayashi gained his popularity through 2cho-me gekijo in late 90s.

For the clarification on "Yoshimoto Shinki-geki", please refer this external link: http://www.tbs.co.jp/eng/catalog/english/variety/325.html

I haven't looked up specifically "2cho-me gekijo" however "2 Cho-Me" or "Ni Cho-Me" is the gay district of Shinjuku (the club district in Tokyo).

Torrent?

Since when did Wikipedia start linking to torrent downloads? --Keito

Since this date, time & user added it: 07:08, 5 November 2005 Big Booger. What's the problem? Revmachine21 15:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

It was a stupid question, because the BitTorrent protocol itself is completely fine, allow me to rephrase. Since when did Wikipedia start linking to torrent downloads of pirated media? → ケイト∞ (contact)

If you read under the Fansub article there is a legal section which discloses information on the legality of distributing such media. Here is a excerpt. "While unlicensed distribution of movies and television programs is a clear violation of international copyright law, prosecutions are seldom. The reasons for this are two fold; firstly that there is no absolute legal precedence for such a case, and secondly because most distributors fear being riduculed by fans and losing the 'free advertising' they get as a result of fansubbing. Foreign licenses are a lucrative prospect for many Japanese anime companies, especially as the industry has grown increasingly short on revenue due to economic woes, so jeopardizing the sale of their products overseas is not seen by anime executives to be a smart financial move." HG episodes are currently being fansubbed by Bakakage a fan sub community.

Cleanup

This article seems to conform reasonably well with Wikipedia standards. If there are no further objections I will remove the clean up tag. Revmachine21 15:40, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

No comments for 3 days... removal tag is gone. Revmachine21 11:14, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Video clips

Video clips of hard gay can be found on Google Video by searching for the phrase Hard Gay. I'm not knowledgable enough about international copyright law to know whether it is acceptable to link to these videos or not, or if it would be appropriate to post links to sample clips on the article's page. Thoughts?

--RootsLINUX 05:17, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

About 15 edits back, somebody deleted a number of external links to available video clips, Google and others. Seems somewhat strange, I'm of the opinion that these should be added back. Here are the previously listed.

* Japanese fan site with WMV video clips

* MSN-Mainichi Daily News:Razor Ramon slices along Japan’s cutting edge * MSN-Mainichi Daily News:Razor Ramon slices along Japan’s cutting edge

* Japan Times: How gei can one get? ‘Pretend gay’ is as far as it gets * Japan Times: How gei can one get? ‘Pretend gay’ is as far as it gets

* Hard Gay Video in Torrent Format

* Hard Gay Google Videos

* Hard Gay Blog with over 30 video clips - Japanese only

Revmachine21 11:42, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Whole episodes of the anime Bleach can be found by searching for the phrase bleach on Google Video, that doesn't suddenly make them legal. That should prove that you can't just safely assume that everything on there is okay to link out to. → ケイト∞ (contact)

Hi Keito, I took a little time to research Wikipedia policy on the subject of linking to external content that may / may not have copyright to the source material. I coudn't find anything that restricted external links to only verifiable material, whether print or video. I did ask this question on the Wikipedia Village pump, [2]. This isn't a consensus or known policy, but I would be inclined to return the above links back into the article. Your thoughts? Have you seen a policy restricting links to only print / video with verifiable copyright status? Revmachine21 12:21, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi, now I've read your question at the Village pump and looked over some of the entries on Wikipedia's copyright policy, but I am not sure what's the right thing to do. As for what I read, there didn't seem to be any rules against linking to such material, it seemed to apply only to content on Wikipedia's servers. That might be something that Wikipedians should discuss, if there's really no official policy on external linking. I am no expert on US law, but unless it is illegal to link to copyrighted material, you could probably return the removed content. Don't take my word for it, though. → ケイト∞ (contact) 18:18, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

== Questions on a few of the things

==

A couple of things

• I thought Razor Ramon RG (or Real Gay) was really HG's manzai partner from the original Razor Ramon days.
• Also, I was fairly sure he was engaged to the gravure idol for whom he was said to have liked.

70.94.32.126 07:27, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Sumitani's lover

Sumitani's lover is not an actress Anne Suzuki (鈴木杏). She is Anna Suzuki (鈴木杏奈)! The two is different. His lover is this person. However, it may be easy to be confused because their name is similar. --211.15.48.50 03:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Another Cameo

HG was in the 12th Episode of the anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 08:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
...and briefly spoofed in Naruto episode 186. Danorux 07:27, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Criticism

The criticism section should have a counterarguement of some kind. Not all gays in Japan feel the same way as those two "sources." Quite frankly I think those two quotes are made by dumb people. Only someone completely ignorant would assume all homosexuals act the way HG does (yes, unfortunately there are a lot of ignorant people in this world...). But I do know for a fact those views are not the standard. I just can't cite any sources unless you count listing my boyfriend, or some of our gay friends living in Japan right now as sources... 59.85.208.174 09:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I hear you on this one, it's hard to source unofended points of view becuase people don't tend to write about how unoften they were by something. But I belive this stretches out accross a lot of issue that most people either accsept for what it is (i.e. a joke in this case) or counld'nt care less. It's a shame only one side tends to voice themselfs in these issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elcaballooscuro (talk • contribs) 10:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Name

I believe the correct English equivalent of the katakana レイザーラモン should be "Laser Ramon", and not "Razor Ramon", citing a printed label affixed tp an offical piece of HG merchandise distributed by TBS Japan, specifically the flashing cube-shaped cell phone straps. His name is actually spelled "Layzer Ramon" on the strap label, but one can assume that this is a misspelling of "Laser". I don't believe any official product or statement issued by TBS has ever included the English text "Razor Ramon", therefore making the claim of copyright infringement on "Razor Ramon" of the WWE invalid. A picture of the official piece of Bakuten merchandise showing the "Layzer Ramon" text can be found here. Yakuza Sentinel 13:05, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, interesting... the offical stage character name is レイザーラモン. The English translations are just that, translations from a language where the closest "R" and "L" sounds are represented by the same katakana symbol. Any English translation therefore is an approximation. I love Hard Gay and I had never seen his stage name translated as "Layzer" before, but your find does have merit. We ought to list all commonly used translations. Do you have any citation for use of "Layzer" to avoid copyright infringement? That should be included in the article. The translations I've seen:

Layzer Ramon

Razer Ramon

Razor Ramon

Laser Ramon

Lasor Ramon

any others...

I'm very new to wikipedia, and to prevent me from potentially messing anything up it would be nice if someone else with experience could edit the article. I can't find anything from TBS using the text "Layzer Ramon", because the katakana equivalent seems to be almost always used in Japan, except in the case of the keychain. I also believe that the way the Bakuten (Ohta?) host emphasizes the "Lay" sound when reading HG's name supports the claim. However, other than the keychain, I cannot find any other hard evidence.

Sure, I will help. I think we should first establish which version is the most popularly used, maybe with Google fight. This version should be in the introductory paragraph. The other variants should be off in a different section in the body of the article. Will try to do this later this week. Revmachine21 03:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Google Fight

Layzer Ramon 205 results

Razer Ramon 25,300 results

Razor Ramon 348,000 results

Laser Ramon 1,120,000 results (this is a surprise)

Lasor Ramon 397 results

Razor Ramon HG 40,000 results

It's not surprising really, considering you didn't use quotes on your Google Fight searchings. Of course websites with 'laser' are going to show up more often, it's a common English word, and 'ramon' as a name isn't exactly rare either. Here's the Google Fight results WITH quotes.

Razor Ramon 159,000

Razor Ramon HG 20,000

Laser Ramon 627

Razer Ramon 535

Layzer Ramon 90

Lasor Ramon 5

Now, the thing here that you guys aren't taking into consideration is that the HG is part of the name. He is not Razor/Laser Ramon. He is Razor/Laser Ramon HG. Razor/Laser Ramon is the name of his comedy group with Makoto Izubuchi, or Real Gay.

Also, really strong reasoning for Razor Ramon, he is a huge wrestling fan. His 'h/foo' is most likely from Ric Flair, and he was probably a fan of Razor Ramon back in the days of the WWF/E and whatever other wrestling leagues there were back then. Of course the only real way to know for certain is to ask him.

Actually, if you can speak Japanese, the Japanese put in their Wiki entry for the comedy duo that the name does indeed come from Scott Hall. Scott Hall, of course, being the original Razor Ramon. JP Razor Ramon Entry ~Anonymous

Fabulous darling... please update the article with the information from your superior Google skillz and go ahead to update the Foo thing. Wonderful find. Revmachine21 08:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

The main point I was trying to make is that his name isn't レイザーラモン(reiza- ramon for those of you who don't speak the moon language). That's not a variant of his name. There are only really two variants, and you can romanize them however you want. レイザーラモンHG, and レイザーラモン住谷. Of course the HG can be extended out to Hard Gay and the like. Oh, and let's also assume for the sake of arguement that they really meant to spell his name correctly in English, and drop out "razer", "layzer", and "lasor", they each scored less than a thousand (well, so did laser), so they're not particularly notable. ~Anonymous

The name is officially Razor Ramon. All of the other variants are just bad romanizations. HG said himself in an interview that the name is based off of the American wrestler Scott Hall, who went by the name Razor Ramon. The interview was just in a magazine, (scanned in here, though I'm not sure which issue of Giant Robot the interview appeared in. I checked their site, and believe it was the latest issue, #45. Kuoushi 20:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

What has happened to Hard Gay?

Any idea on what Hard Gay is up to now? I haven't really seen or heard much of him in the past few months. Is he retired from show business? Is he deciding to raise his family? Or does he still come on TV from time to time? Any news on this?

Anna Suzuki

Could someone quote an article or post a show where Suzuki said she would stop working after marrying Sumitani? I suppose first-hand evidence would be nice for a few people who might find that hard to believe. Thank you! - Anonymous

http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=3969934232585&lang=ja-JP&mkt=ja-JP&FORM=CVRE That link should work. It's the cache to the article, the main article seems to have been taken down at some point. ~Anonymous

They should both stop working as they are shining examples of the shallow television subculture in Japan. If you think American TV is bad, Japanese TV really is an "idiot box".

Married Gay

He is clearly gay. Just because he is married doesn't suddenly expose him not to be gay. Many gay guys are married. If he has sex with her, it means that he is bi, to say the least. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.22.242.102 (talk) 18:59, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

Are you joking? He is clearly straight and is only acting gay. It's pretty easy to act like that while being straight, and Hard Gay acts according to the Japanese stereotypes of gays. Armyrifle 17:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Hardgay.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Contradictory claim

The fact that Hard Gay does not portray any Japanese gay subculture also explains why the sketch was allowed to be aired on Japanese TV, which has its own code of political correctness.

Which is immediately followed by several paragraphs stating that he dresses in a "gay fetish outfit," purchased from a shop which "specializes in gay fashion", and goes on to say that he was criticized for a "stereotypical depiction of gay men." The above quoted statement is either unclear as to its intended meaning, or this is baseless, unsourced conjecture regarding the "why" he was allowed on TV. Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:01, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

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