Template talk:Images of England

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Template talk:National Heritage List for England entry which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:17, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

NHLE

I wonder if this template should be deprecated in favour of Template:National Heritage List for England. Per the note at that template, "The similar Images of England (IoE) list records a snapshot of those listed at the turn of the millennium and provides a photograph, but uses a different index number and is not updated with list changes since it was created.". Also, the NHLE site has recently introduced an "Enriching the List" project which allows people to upload photos. As a keen amateur antiquarian I find NHLE refs more useful (though you can search by the legacy reference, i.e. the old index number used by IoE, it's more time-consuming). The ideal, of course, is to find both references, so I generally add NHLE refs when I find only IoE (though I don't bother with the reverse). Dave.Dunford (talk) 12:05, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

NHLE is obviously preferred as its database is (hopefully) complete. However the Images of England database, whilst deliberately reflecting the state of the nation around the year 2000 does provide a photograph of most listed objects, even down to individual gravestones and canal bridges. These are an invaluable identification aid where there is no alternative photograph, may pinpoint the object or building when other photographs contain distracting or multiple objects, and most importantly are a self-illustrating official source reference when Wikipedia/Commons photos are arguably more like original research. It is very unfortunate that the object numbers changed for the new database as an enhancement to the NHLE template to link to IoE would have been elegant.   Oosoom ^Talk  12:32, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

There is a pop-up on the IOE website which reads "This site is approaching retirement and will shortly be closing down. We’re working to make all Images of England content available on the Historic England website." - with this in mind it may be worth switching citations to NHLE or archiving the existing references before the website becomes unavailable. EdwardUK (talk) 23:42, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Just to observe that IoE photos now appear on NHLE pages (e.g. [1]). Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

I do not see any images on that page - was it only a temporary situation? Keith D (talk) 18:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

I was just about to comment on this too - Images of England is about to shut down, so this template definitely needs to redirect to {{NHLE}}. However, it seems that IoE ID numbers do not match up with NHLE numbers - for example :

Historic England. "Details from listed building database ({{{num}}})". National Heritage List for England.

Historic England. "The Bridgewater Monument (1078046)". National Heritage List for England.

Is there a formal Wikipedia process for fixing this? Cnbrb (talk) 16:50, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Just spotted another thing that needs doing here. If the reference is used in an infobox such as {{Infobox Historic Site}} and the |designation<n>_number= is the number of the IoE entry then it needs switching to the NHLE reference number. See Wayford Manor House for an example of this situation. Keith D (talk) 21:34, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@GreenC: sorry should have pinged when added above.Keith D (talk) 20:21, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

@Keith D: The main thread for discussion is now at WP:URLREQ and conversion of the templates is ongoing. My question is how would a bot know the number in |designation<n>_number= is an IoE number? It could look in the CSV file provided by Trialpears and find a match, but it doesn't mean |designation<n>_number= is an IoE number, and not some other identifier for a different database. Also would it only apply to {{Infobox Historic Site}}? -- GreenC 14:17, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

@GreenC: I have only spotted it in {{Infobox Historic Site}} templates. The number will be an IoE number if there is a reference to {{IoE}} in any of the associated designated fields such as |designation<n>_date=. In the example article I mentioned above this is via a named reference link to the {{IoE}} template. Keith D (talk) 18:10, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

@Trialpears and Keith D: The template merge is done for everything in main, file and template space (4,267 conversions). Suggest redirect to NHLE. -- GreenC 16:50, 27 July 2019 (UTC)