Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2008 Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:33, 14 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2008 Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game

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Individual regular season college football kickoff games are not inherently notable per WP:SPORTSEVENT, and such individual CFB games must generally satisfy the general notability guidelines to be suitable for inclusion, and that also means that coverage must exceed WP:ROUTINE post-game coverage of individual games in the series. Preseason kickoff games are not bowl games or playoff games; they are regular season games and merit no special consideration. Furthermore, pursuant to established precedents and the consensus of WP:WikiProject College football, individual regular season games should have some historical significance for a stand-alone article. Articles regarding individual regular season games are disfavored and discouraged; content regarding such individual regular season games should be incorporated into a parent article about the game series (see, e.g., Florida–Georgia football rivalry, Cowboys Classic), or the season articles about the individual teams (see, e.g., 2013 Alabama Crimson Tide football team). For all of these reasons, this single-season game article should be Deleted, and a handful of highlights from this article should be incorporated into a one-paragraph summary of the game in the parent article, Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:22, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:20, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Georgia (U.S. state)-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:21, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:21, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is nothing notable about this game other than WP:ROUTINE coverage. — X96lee15 (talk) 18:23, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 21:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If the other editions of the Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game have it's individual wikipedia article, why can't this one? Michiganwolverines2014 (talk) 22:04 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Comment - They're all going to get nominated before we're done. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 00:54, 8 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:07, 8 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep looks like there's some good significant coverage of this game that far surpasses WP:ROUTINE sports scores and listings, clearly passes WP:GNG.--Paul McDonald (talk) 04:35, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We've had these debates many times before, Paul. Exceeding WP:ROUTINE for a Division I college football game means more than typical post-game coverage. It means lasting coverage -- we have deleted single-game articles in the past with more and better coverage than this one. By the standard you suggest, virtually every Division I college football regular season game would pass GNG. That's not how ROUTINE has been interpreted. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 04:44, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

See answers at other current game AFD discussions. I've spent over 20 minutes this morning typing and editing and it's the same argument over and over. Even the nomination is cut and pasted, and so are many of the entries.--Paul McDonald (talk) 10:50, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Here's a reading list of the applicable notability guidelines for interested editors:

1. WP:GNG: "significant coverage in reliable sources creates an assumption, not a guarantee, that a subject should be included. A more in-depth discussion might conclude that the topic actually should not have a stand-alone article".

2. WP:NSPORTS/WP:SPORTSEVENT: "Regular season games in professional and college leagues are not inherently notable." Further, "A game that is widely considered by independent reliable sources to be notable, outside routine coverage of each game, especially if the game received front page coverage outside of the local areas involved (e.g. Pacers–Pistons brawl, 2009 Republic of Ireland vs France football matches, or the Blood in the Water match)."

3. WP:ROUTINE: "Routine events such as sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc. may be better covered as part of another article, if at all."

4. WP:NOTNEWS: "Wikipedia considers the enduring notability of persons and events. While news coverage can be useful source material for encyclopedic topics, most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion. For example, routine news reporting on things like announcements, sports, or celebrities is not a sufficient basis for inclusion in the encyclopedia."

5. WP:Notability (events)/WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE: "Although notability is not temporary, meaning that coverage does not need to be ongoing for notability to be established, a burst or spike of news reports does not automatically make an incident notable. Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article." (Credit User:Bagumba for point No. 5; I learned something new today.) Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:01, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as WP:ROUTINE; this particular individual game is not noteworthy in itself for a separate article. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:27, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Just a routine game, one of hundreds played each year in college football. Nothing that makes this one stand out as being historical. Reso lute 14:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Move to combine 17 games are presently under WP:AFD and responses are being cut and pasted. These topics should be combined before further discussion and certainly before closing the issue.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:35, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Paul, perhaps the best response to "cut-and-paste" responses is not a cut-and-paste response. As the nominator, I object to your proposal, however well intended, to combine this AfD and any others pending as procedurally out of order. The AfD nominator has that choice in the first instance, when he files the AfD. Only rarely does it make sense to propose a bundled multi-article AfD. Invariably, the fairest way is to to nominate articles individually, and to judge each and every individual article on its individual merits, and that is the normal AfD procedure. Moreover, many of these articles have nothing in common except for the fact that their subjects are all regular season college football games. As I have said before, multi-article AfDs often lead to no-consensus outcomes because AfD discussion participants desire different outcomes for different articles included, and the AfD discussion becomes hopelessly confused when it includes multiple articles. Furthermore, your position is that these are articles are individually notable and individually suitable for inclusion; demanding a mass AfD for 16 different game articles is logically incoherent with that position. If you really believe that this game article, and the other 15 articles pending at AfD, are individually notable and suitable, I urge you to review the guidelines that I have linked above, and start making actual arguments for the notability and suitability of the individual articles, instead of raising out-of-order procedural objections and demands. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:06, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have reviewed the guidelines. WP:ROUTINE clearly applies only to sports events where only listing of scores are found. At least, that's what it says there. I understand that there are editors who try to make ROUTINE say more than it does, but calling a dog a cow doesn't make it one. Each game in this block clearly has coverage far beyond "routine" by the definition given in that guideline and everything else is a straw man argument. The arguments at each AFD are basically the same. Responding individually to cut-n-paste arguments is time-wasting, inefficient, and not good for Wikipedia.--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:22, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete (After initial research, copied from similar case at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1996 Texas Tech vs. Kansas State football game) Treat the game, a sporting event, like any other WP:NEWSEVENT. Fails WP:INDEPTH, which advises "Media sources sometimes report on events because of their similarity (or contrast, or comparison) to another widely reported incident. Editors should not rely on such sources to afford notability to the new event, since the main purpose of such articles is to highlight either the old event or such types of events generally." Lacks WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE: "Events that are only covered in sources published during or immediately after an event, without further analysis or discussion, are likely not suitable for an encyclopedia article."—Bagumba (talk) 21:34, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom with a particular emphasis on WP:ROUTINE and incorporate content to Chick-fil-A Kickoff Game and/or the specific 2008 Alabama/Clemson season articles where applicable. Patriarca12 (talk) 00:01, 10 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.