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Merge proposal

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

The result was merge into List of Big Brother 2007 housemates (UK). -- John Hayestalk 07:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is he really notable enough for his own article yet? Yes he has won, but he is still only known for Big Brother, unlike Brian Dowling etc... John Hayestalk 00:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can keep it in the short term until there is something else to write about. Also, the article needs to be moved. --Ross UK 07:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But then we are predicting the future. For all we know he could be run over by a bus today, and never do anything notable outside of Big Brother. As there is currently so little to include in an article on him, it will be very easy to recreate the article if he ever does do anything which would make him notable enough. John Hayestalk 07:53, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's the thing. Is Anthony Hutton notable for anything outside winning the 2005 Big Brother? We have articles on all BB UK winners, but not all of them are truly notable.--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 10:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Winning a reality TV show is considered noteable per WP:BIO. Dalejenkins | 10:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reference to that in WP:BIO, please quote the section which you feel states that. John Hayestalk 10:32, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you are refering to The person has been the subject of published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject., on which basis almost every Big Brother contestant ever would qualify for an article. John Hayestalk 10:43, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that he probably shouldn't have an article either, as you say not all of them are truly notable, but either way WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, Anthony having an article, is not an argument for keeping this one. John Hayestalk 10:49, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He should he won and he will have more thing to be added to it, Just wait as far as i am concerned, The Winners all have their own page and so should he. >talk 12:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say to that is WP:CRYSTAL and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. He shouldn't have an article just because he might become notable. If and when that happens, then the article can be recreated. Secondly just because the other winners have articles doesn't mean he automatically qualifies for one. John Hayestalk 23:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Why cant he just have one? Does it hurt anyone that he has one? Me, Myself like to view the winners pages and read about them even if there is not alot about them. >talk 01.00, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Because this is an encylopedia, not a Big Brother fansite; there are standards and policies to uphold. I would suggest reading those two articles, they will give you an insight on what should and shouldn't be the subject of an article. If you want to read more about him then go and look at Big Brother 2007 (UK), the Channel 4 website [1] or one of the many fansites that exist. John Hayestalk 00:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is commonplace to create articles for all RTV winners, as this is a noteable achievment that satisfies WP:BIO and WP:N. I hope I'm not breaking WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but just look at Tim Campbell, Will Kirby, Jun Song and Trevor Butler to name but a few. Dalejenkins | 10:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the merge. There's nothing stopping anyone extending the Brian section within List of Big Brother 2007 housemates (UK). Giving him his own page at the moment is unnecessary. Redirects link to sections in articles and they can also be categorized, so keeping information about him within a list is basically the same as giving him his own article anyway. I dont think that RTV show winners should automatically be given their own page unless they do something notable outside of the show. They dont have to sustain a career in the spotlight, but they should at least have a brief one. Otherwise the page will just get filled with trivial details and appearances on BBMB and BBLB, like Anthony Hutton for example.Gungadin♦ 11:33, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. John Hayestalk 12:05, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Dale, can you explain how, in your opinion, it is a notable achievement that satisfies WP:BIO and WP:N? Just looking at your examples, ignoring WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS for a moment, in Tim Campbell there is a Post-Apprentice section, if Brian does other notable things, then he can have a Post-Big Brother section, and qualify for his own article. John Hayestalk 12:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you changing everything for this year? For example, removing the housemates surnames in the info box and now not wanting to create a page for The Brian when he Won, It has only been 2 days sincw he won and i am pretty sure Winning Big Brother is notable enough, and he will be doing more thing to get added. Andybigbro2talk 14:47, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just because things have been done one way in the past, does not mean they are right. If I try and change something it is because I want to improve Wikipedia. If you think winning Big Brother is notable enough, then please explain why, with references to policy. People can't be given articles because they might do something in the future. John Hayestalk 13:54, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can anyone explain why it is so important for Brian to be given his own page? What is said on this page currently that can't be included in the List of housemates article? I cant understand why some people think being included in a list is a bad thing, it's as if people think that it somehow degrades the winner in some way. Surely the important thing is that Brian is covered on Wikipedia, and the information in the list provides adequate coverage that his own article cannot, because at the moment it is just a less-detailed rehash. The same info can be given in the list article, where it can also be combined with his time in Big Brother. Combining this info makes sense to me because his appearance on BB is all he is famous for at the moment, therefore it is all anyone will currently want to read about. I think the same rule should apply to some of the other BB winners too. The page can always be recreated at a later date if he does anything else noteworthy.Gungadin♦ 14:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I think winning a game show of this magnitude IS notable and deserves its own article. No different to being a national sporting champion.Hammer1980 15:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think that? On what basis? I am happy to keep it if it can be shown to meet WP:BIO and WP:N but currently I have seen no evidence that winning a reality show, makes someone notable enough for an article outside of the article on the show itself. John Hayestalk 16:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This is why. (from Wikipedia:Notability (people))
"Entertainers: actors, comedians, opinion makers, models, and television personalities:
Has a large fan base or a significant "cult" following.
Generally, person who is "part of the enduring historical record" will have been written about, in depth, independently in multiple history books on that field, by historians. A politician who has received "significant press coverage" has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple news feature articles, by journalists. An actor who has been featured in magazines has been written about, in depth, independently in multiple magazine feature articles, by magazine article writers. An actor or TV personality who has "an independent biography" has been written about, in depth, in a book, by an independent biographer."
Winning the game show is now different in my opinion, to the politician who has received 'significant press coverage'. Big Brother does seem to be frowned upon for some reason by some who consider it beneath them. However, it is a massively popular programme and winning the show is a notable achievement, well the British press seem to thinks so and several million voters.Hammer1980 11:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well according to that he has failed that, as he has no independent biography, nor a significant "cult" following. Under WP:BLP1E he can, for the moment, be included in the Big Brother article until he does something notable outside of it. John Hayestalk 07:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
He HAS a large fanbase but you choose to ignore it, and now you see fit to just merge the article despite a debate still continuing. You are well out of order. I will recreate the article and refer it to admins.Hammer1980 14:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I implied that in my lack of "cult" following, I would dispute that he has a large fanbase, I see no evidence of it. Either way I resent your comment that I am well out of order, I have simply followed the procedure defined in WP:MERGE, though I admit I forgot to close it properly. Discussion occured, notability was not established (simply saying he does is not enough); since a week has passed since the original notice, I was WP:BOLD and merged the articles. Well we will see what comes from arbitration. John Hayestalk 22:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the argument that other winners have their own pages, this is not entirely true. Paul Brennan from Teen Big Brother (UK) does not have an individual page, so Brian would not be the first winner to lack an individual article. Tra (Talk) 22:40, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

His page doesn't have much more information than other housemates have on the combined page. If he was to do something high profile like previous winners have done, then he would deserve his own page, however, at the current moment he hasn't done anything that notable, apart from winning. Therefore I believe it should be merged back into the contestant pages. Peterwill 12:52, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have now merged, after waiting a week, on the basis that the only arguments for are either "I want the page", or ones that fail WP:CRYSTAL, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and WP:BLP1E. If he does something notable outside of Big Brother, then the article can be recreated. John Hayestalk 07:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have undone the merge and now request this does to arbitration.Hammer1980 14:13, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. John Hayestalk 22:45, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think this sorts of discussions are just silly. Wikipedia and especially english wikipedia has a huge tendency towards rejecting and laugh at all reality show stars no matter what they always has a stigma. its says something about the people who writes here more then about the stars...and its not a pretty picture:)--Zingostar 16:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

this article should be mergerd with the list of housemates as it only contains information regarding his appearence on big brother Mikyt90 18:49, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pointless really happends every Big Brother. It goes to a vote and no consensus is reached. Something you need to accept and move on, I know I have. SenorKristobbal 17:39, 11 September 2007 (UTC).[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Date and place of birth

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He is of Nigerian decent but was he REALLY born there? If so, then how has the "births marriages and deaths" reference been given for his date of birth? If he were born in Nigeria, he wouldn't appear in the publication. Technohead1980 14:25, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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