Talk:Lawrenceville School

The Lawrence was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 22 March 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Lawrenceville School. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Athletic Ranking

Until someone can cite a verifiable source for this schools ranking, I am removing the NPOV issue. JustinStroud 12:40, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the text that should be sourced and verified; I have removed this as I am suspicious of vandalism. In any case, this quote can easily change depending on current events: "Hill is ranked higher than Lawrenceville." JustinStroud 12:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NPOV Issues

Much of this article verges on sounding like an advertisement. I'm hesitant to tag it, because I know how much fire that can draw from alums watching the page, but listen to this prose: "The School's weekly newspaper, The Lawrence, has been in publication for 127 years. It has won numerous awards for journalistic excellence." While I am certain that this is true, the tone of the sentence -- not to mention the utterly unsubstantiated claims about awards won -- make this a tough sell for a supposedly neutral encyclopedia. Does anyone who knows more about Lawrenceville than I do have an interest in cleaning all this up? It needs it, and I don't want to have to tag it. Mjl0509 20:25, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, the entire Performing Arts section sounds as though we are being encouraged to rush to the Lawrenceville School to watch one of these shows. Sentences such as "These groups help with the smooth running of productions, assist faculty by executing various aspects of those productions, and provide students with an interesting, enjoyable and hands-on experience in the running of concerts, club meetings and other club activities." seem to replicate the effect of a brochure for the Lawrenceville School, not to mention the non-uniform layout of the pictures and the "Coming Soon!" messages under not yet written sections. This section needs some serious revamping. I'm not afraid to tag it. icetitan17 12:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of whether the Performing Arts section seems to replicate a Lawrenceville brochure (as argued by above poster), I think the section needs to be trimmed down - it is far too long. Lawrenceville's focus is not on Performing Arts, and thus the performing arts section is considerably oversized compared to discussion of the other aspects of the school. Looks like a band member got slightly carried away. 24.188.152.214 20:38, 17 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I feel that this article is not only POV, but also too full of school spirit. I was especially dismayed when I read about the school's "arch-rival." That wording is quite unencyclopedic. Jolb 06:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree. The section on performing arts belongs in an admissions brochure, not an encyclopedia.

Endowment

It seems to me that this article is too eager to mention Lawrenceville's endowment. Impressive as it may be, it seems that it is not such a valuable statistic to be mentioned in the third sentence of the very first paragraph in the article. Much more pertinent information could be added there, and it comes across as a bit snarky. Jolb 03:54, 28 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Notable Lawrentians

I feel as if none (or very few) of these notable alumni are actually notable. I'm not sure about deleting them, though (on the possibility that their area of specialty is nuclear physics, for example--and they might actually be famous within that field, but I don't know about it. What is the criteria for notability? (Very few of these alumni have their own wikipedia pages, making me doubt their justification for showing up here.) At any rate, the list seems overly long. I'd appreciate a second opinion. Hobbesy3 12:25, 10 January 2007.

so does anyone know the acceptance rates of gr.11 applicants??? I'm applying...

Merge proposal

I'd say no, but I split the article out, so I'm biased. dm (talk) 23:21, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lewisville

In the text it claims that "Along Lewisville Road at the back entrance of the school is the site of Lewisville, a small, largely African American community, many of whose residents historically worked as staff at the school." I go to the school and that is just a lie. I even take that road to go to school. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.61.107.99 (talk) 01:55, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cut and paste move

I have reverted a November attempt by 131.215.168.145 (talk · contribs) to move this article to the title The Lawrenceville School by what is known as a cut and paste move. This is problematic as it splits the history between pages which causes copyright licensing problems. If you want to move the page, please use the "move" button at the top of the page. If admin assistance or discussion is required please use Wikipedia:Requested moves or comment here as I am watching this page for a while. Camaron · Christopher · talk 17:46, 13 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Lawrence merge proposal

There is an article for The Lawrence, which seems to have no independent notability and should be merged in this article. Alansohn (talk) 16:25, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Be bold and go ahead. I'm redirecting it, salvageable content (if any) can be found in the article history. --Crusio (talk) 12:16, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

J. D. Salinger

Okay, was JD Salinger actually a Lawrenceville student? That seems pretty far-fetched.76.117.208.134 (talk) 18:54, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Promotionalism

One of the principles of WP in WP:NOT is that WP may not be used for promotionalism. A list of colleges that accept the graduates of the school is generally regarded as promotionalism. The general guideline is that a Wikipedia article needs to be written like an encyclopedia article, not a press release and include only material that would be of interest to a general reader coming across the mention of the subject and wanting the sort of information that would be found in an encyclopedia. Do not include material that would be of interest only to those associated with the subject, or to prospective students or supporters --that sort of content is considered promotional. Please do not restore it. Davidhickey 22:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Black student body president resigning

Greenfield, Beth. "Black Prep School President Steps Down After Mocking White Classmates" (Archive). Yahoo! Shine. Tuesday July 1, 2014.

WhisperToMe (talk) 02:28, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alumni listing issues

Despite the fact that the list of notable alumni is made up of mostly linked individuals with their own wikipedia pages (and thus are worthy of being listed), the list stretches on very long--is it appropriate to make a separate page for notable alumni. Also--there are two names under the notable faculty section (I just added the second). Is it worth having the section with just the two names? Jx242 8:18, 14 March 2015 (UTC)

Pierre de Coubertin

Pierre de Coubertin came to Lawrenceville School in 1889 and provides a description of the school in chapter 2 of his book Universités transatlantiques. Hektor (talk) 19:44, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Sexual abuse allegations

This is the place to discuss how an article might be improved. I think it would be if what I wrote orignally were restored. As it is now it has two paragraphs sitting there like orphans, as if it all was a long time ago and not very relevant.

Allegations of sexual abuse

Bruce Presley (79 in 2018), was a house master and faculty member from 1960 to 1984. In the wake of the #metoo revelations, students — John Watkin and Brent McCowan — publicly accused Presley of sexual abuse during their time at Lawrenceville School. McCowan said: "It ruined my life. It caused me a lifetime of pain." He considered suicide. South Florida Gay News interviewed three additional "victims" who also claimed Presley abused his power and violated them during their time at Lawrenceville. All of them were 17 or 18 at the time of these alleged incidents.

According to Watkin, when he was house president, he recalled "at least 15 young men" in the house were abused that year by Presley. Watkin says he went to the student body president, who referred him to an unnamed administrator. "The administrator promised he would look into it. Nothing was ever said again." Another student at the time, Dirk Digiorgio-Haag, recently called Presley's abuse "an open secret."

An recent email was sent to alumni regarding "a year-and-a-half investigation into whether any sexual misconduct has ever occurred at Lawrenceville." The letter detailed four past incidents. Three of them were discovered at the time and the abusers were forced to resign. The fourth involved Presley. The email said the following:

A number of people interviewed alluded to secondhand information of a housemaster, who, in the words of one alumnus, engaged in an "abuse of power" and "sexual harassment." According to the reports, students who had broken a School rule could avoid detention or other discipline by agreeing to perform push ups fully unclothed, while the teacher in question watched. At the time, the administration conducted some level of review but it is not known whether any follow-up action was taken.

The email called this "serious adult misconduct" and "harassment", but says they had "no information that it involved any physical contact with students."

One victim who chose to remain anonymous, a retired federal law enforcement officer, wrote to the school in response to this that: "As an investigator with over 30 years of experience, I was personally dismayed at the apparent lack of effort demonstrated by your legal team to obtain first hand information regarding the allegations."

The current headmaster, Steve Murray, wrote to John Watkin:

Please don't take my silence for inaction. We are currently assessing a range of responses we have received, yours among them. These things take time -- many thanks for your patience.

In a followup email, Murray added:

I am writing to reiterate our appreciation for your recent communication and to let you know that we are organizing a process to carefully and thoroughly look into the information you shared, and in fact this process has begun. This may take some time, however, as we will try to proceed methodically, but I just wanted you to know that we are taking steps and will remain in touch.

Watkin responded:

I must demand a response to my report of being sexually abused as a student at Lawrenceville by Bruce Presley. Glacial speed is not acceptable. Not when you have alumni who are struggling with the embarrassment, guilt, and anxiety of coming forth and baring their souls to you.^[1]

No, this should not be included. It is too in-depth and should not include personal correspondence, as that falls out of line with the encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia. Parzival1919 (talk) 13:35, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Content has been added again and is against WP:BLP policy. These are allegations of non-notable figure from a single source and given the defamatory nature, I am removing the content. S0091 (talk) 23:36, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Parsley, Jason (January 31, 2018). "Former Prep School Housemaster Accused of Abuse Decades Later". South Florida Gay News. pp. 16–20.

Student body and ethnicity

The assertion that for 150 years the student body was "almost entirely white" is a generalization that cannot be proven. There is no specific racial category "white", since another assertion in the same paragraph was that Native Americans and Cubans were indeed members of the student body. Who has the authority to define these racial categories? Since there was no sourcing for any of it, I deleted. -- Melchior2006 (talk) 10:20, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The United States Census Bureau has defined and tracked this for a few hundred years. The National Center for Education Statistics tracks this data for schools. The fact that some students may have been Hispanic or Native American (again, categories tracked by both the Census Bureau and the NCES) does not necessarily contradict the claim that the student body was "almost entirely white". The question is not whether the claim can be "proven"; the question is whether or not it is verifiable and can be backed by reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn (talk) 15:02, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Parsley, Jason (January 31, 2018). "Former Prep School Housemaster Accused of Abuse Decades Later". South Florida Gay News. pp. 16–20.

[1]