Talk:Modern pagan music

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Music/Music genres task force

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On 18 September 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved from Neopagan music to Modern pagan music. The result of the discussion was moved.

Classical

I added a section on classical music. Possibly this information would be better parceled out into other sections? I'm not sure. I only touched the tip of the iceberg; there's so much more. --Editor B (talk) 18:13, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Pagan folk

What are opinions on a section for "pagan folk"? It has become one of the major scenes in neopagan music and since Faun coined the term it has seen widespread acceptance as a label, with use by very many bands such as Omnia, Emian, SeeD, Trobar de Morte, Moon and the Nightspirit etc. and use by the pagan folk radiostation CeltCast. Currently there is no clear dedicated section anywhere on Wikipedia to this scene, and the current section of "Eclecticism: ethno-gothic, pagan folk and ambient" seems very unwieldy as a heading, though if some bands mentioned there do not apply then it may be better to separate the sections. Pagan folk may warrant its own main article too like Pagan rock. Vaurnheart (talk) 14:51, 22 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree both that it would be good to have better coverage of the genre, and that the current heading here is unwieldy. The problem is that we need good sources first. There might be some out there, but the ones currently in the article were the best I could find. The sources do treat "pagan folk"/"ethno-gothic"/Wardruna-like music as one scene, although there is no really established name for all of it, and we need to avoid WP:SYNTH. I would be very happy to find sources that can improve the coverage, but, at least in the summer of 2019 when I wrote the bulk of the article, this was the best I could find. Ffranc (talk) 11:03, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources that might be helpful, although none of them is primarily about pagan folk:

Weston, Donna (2018). "Paganism and Popular Music". In Partridge, Christopher; Moberg, Marcus (eds.). The Bloomsbury Handbook of Religion and Popular Music. ISBN 978-1-4742-3733-8.
Schaab, Philipp (2019). Götter, Ahnen, Blut und Boden? Die Konstruktion ethnischer Identität im gegenwärtigen slawischen Neuheidentum in Polen. Religionen in der pluralen Welt (in German). Vol. 18. Berlin: Lit Verlag. pp. 162–163. ISBN 9783643145123.
Spracklen, Karl (2020). "From The Wicker Man (1973) to Atlantean Kodex: Extreme music, alternative identities and the invention of paganism". Metal Music Studies. 6 (1): 71–86. doi:10.1386/mms_00005_1.
Spracklen, Karl (2020). "The Norwegians as 'Authentic' Vikings: Enslaved, Windir and Wardruna". Metal Music and the Re-imagining of Masculinity, Place, Race and Nation. Emerald Studies in Metal Music and Culture. Emerald Publishing Limited. pp. 103–117. ISBN 978-1-83867-444-1.

One problem is that the term is used in at least two different ways. One refers to 60s folk revival-style music with pagan themes, or even just folk revival in general when neopagans listen to it. And one refers to a new, eclectic genre, which is what we're discussing here. So every mention of "pagan folk" in a source isn't necessarily helpful. Ffranc (talk) 11:41, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(If you just want to add more bands, you can of course do the same "hack" thing I did in the metal section: patch together individual sources of varying quality to name-drop individual bands and musicians. This is not optimal, but as long as there is no push to get the article GA rated it should be OK.) Ffranc (talk) 11:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The likes of festivals like Castlefest, Elftopia and Yggdrasil have launched pagan folk into a defined scene, but I see the problem that not every related band has taken to using the label specifically yet (even though it is currently the most widespread and 'neutral' cross-cultural label). Given its origin as a folk expression of neopagan music, the 60s scene isn't antagonistic to the concept (though it may be a previous generation).

I will try to make a start by creating a page for Pagan folk and only including the bands that have explicitly tied themselves to that genre - of which there are hundreds, even if it doesn't yet include Wardruna (a matter of time in my opinion). I would be astonished if the genre of Pagan folk cannot get its own Wikipedia article, given how large and well established it has become. Many thanks for your help, Vaurnheart (talk) 17:53, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll try to help out with anything I can find. For a separate article you will need at least a couple of sources that talk about it as a genre, not just sources that use the label for individual bands. Ffranc (talk) 11:19, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 18 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Since parent topic has been moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 15:11, 25 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neopagan music → Modern pagan music – Consistency with "Modern paganism" name change. Ingwina (talk) 09:28, 18 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 24 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Speedy closed and moved per a declared RM consensus from 25 September 2022. A request for a different outcome should be a new RM. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neopagan music → Modern pagan music – Consitency with Modern paganism. Ingwina (talk) 08:08, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've just noticed I had already proposed this months back, it was agreed to be moved but yet it doesn't seem to have been. Potentially just a mistake by the mover? Ingwina (talk) 08:10, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I'm not sure that Modern paganism is located at the correct title. Looking at the Google Ngrams it looks like "neopaganism" is much more common of a term. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

@BarrelProof:@Robertsky: This move seems improper to me. There wasn't a single support on either of the nominations. The first one should have been either relisted or closed as no consensus. You should revert the move and relist the nomination. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:15, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If there is no objection to an RM, it would ordinarily be closed as moved, which is what happened on 25 September 2022. People had 7 days to comment, and there was no objection within that period (and there was no objection or contrary proposal submitted later either). Relisting is not required. There doesn't necessarily need to be any additional expressions of support – it happens all the time. If you request it, I'll undo my closure of the second RM, but I ~~might still submit a WP:RMTR request to make the move anyway~~ won't undo the move itself, since there was already a declaration of a consensus to do it. Also, as I said above, you could submit a new RM with a different proposal (or you could submit an RM to move the Modern paganism page). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:11, 24 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Revised with strike-through above, since I already moved the article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:46, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This page should have been moved back in 2022, but somehow, I had missed doing so after closing the earlier discussion. I am not sure what had happened on that day to cause me to slip up, and it is 6 months ago and recollection would be sketchy. Vaguely, I might have been moving the other neopagan/modern pagan pages as well around the same time. Nonetheless, apologies for the slip-up. – robertsky (talk) 02:28, 25 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]