Talk:Scota

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— Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.234.101 (talk • contribs) 18:32, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't do this without using sources meeting WP:RS. You'll just be reverted. Doug Weller talk 13:23, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Assuredly I won't alter anything unless within the rules. Quite how contributors can learn to read and pronounce words properly I am not sure? Odd that the piece is saying (vocalising) "Khenkheres is only found in Irish legend".

Are we to reject "Sean" because "Seen" isn't a name?

'Cingris, a name found only in Irish legend'

Not so. One variant spelling of Cingris is Cenchres, which is known as one of Eusebius' variants for an 18th dynasty Pharaoh from Manetho whom he calls one of the candidates for the 'Pharaoh of the Exodus'. Standard versions of Manetho call him Acencherres. Going out on a limb a little further, Acencherres was identified by Gary Greenburg with Horemheb, which points to the general era of Dakhamunzu (qv) - but you didn't read that in the article! Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:43, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not surprising. A quick search of Google Books, Google main search, and Yahoo doesn't show Cenchres as a variant of Cingris. Dougweller (talk) 14:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a 1793 printing of the Irish legend, that refers to the Pharaoh as Cenchres, for one example. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 14:24, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, it doesn't mention Cenchres as a variant of Cingris, it doesn't mention Cingris at all. You know our sourcing policy. Dougweller (talk) 15:31, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Right. Since it mentions the article topic, Scota, as being a daughter of "Cenchres", all we can use it for is to state that some versions make Scota a daughter of "Cenchres", obviously. Nothing more can be stated without a source. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 15:47, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, plus the alternative spellings Cingeris, Singiri, Acencheres providded in the footnote, and the identification with Eusebius' listTil Eulenspiegel (talk) 15:55, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed "Cingris", as pronounced in the Irish is precisely the same pronounciation — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.234.133 (talk) 05:14, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cincris or Cingris is not a variant, it is a transliteration and is clearly stated to be Cencheres, that is to say Pharoah Smenkhkare, in the notes within the English translation of the primary source, here, Leabhar Gabhála na hÉireann,by R. A. Stewart Macalister. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.235.45 (talk) 09:28, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Looking into this. Doug Weller talk 09:50, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, regarding transliteration, useful to compare Irish "Cináed mac Ailpín" with English "Kenneth McAlpine", pronounced precisely the same way, "Cin" for "Ken" (as with A-khen-a-ten, the "C" is a "K" - never "S"- and the "I" is an "E" sound).

In fact the aforementioned English translation of the primary source here, LGE, by Macalister does indeed use the 'English' form "Chenchres". If an English language page would assume this spelling (as that of Eusebius etc) would be used, as more intelligible to the English reader (who may assume "Cincris" is "Sincris" otherwise), just as one uses "Kenneth" for the Cináed mac Ailpín page. You can see, at a glance, the various forms of "Cincris" over time, depending on the scribe: https://ia802700.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/26/items/leborgablare04macauoft/leborgablare04macauoft_jp2.zip&file=leborgablare04macauoft_jp2/leborgablare04macauoft_0217.jp2&scale=7.220454545454546&rotate=0

I will try to find the specific note on Smenkhkare. While here also note the other "Scota", daughter from a later date is, depending on version of LGE, is said to be daughter of Neachteinibus (in B) or "Nect" (in R), the latter opening up possibility this refers to another other than that generally assumed. Here:

https://ia802700.us.archive.org/BookReader/BookReaderImages.php?zip=/26/items/leborgablare04macauoft/leborgablare04macauoft_jp2.zip&file=leborgablare04macauoft_jp2/leborgablare04macauoft_0216.jp2&scale=7.220454545454546&rotate=0

Also note sync with Alexander the Great.   — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.235.45 (talk) 11:01, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]