User talk:Vesperius

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September 2018

Hello, I'm The Banner. Your recent edit to the page Ireland appears to have added incorrect information, so it has been removed for now. If you believe the information was correct, please cite a reliable source or discuss your change on the article's talk page. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. The Banner talk 09:07, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Channel Islands. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. The Banner talk 09:08, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2018

Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

When editing Wikipedia, there is a field labeled "Edit summary" below the main edit box. It looks like this:

Edit summary (Briefly describe your changes)

I noticed your recent edit to Macau does not have an edit summary. Please be sure to provide a summary of every edit you make, even if you write only the briefest of summaries. The summaries are very helpful to people browsing an article's history.

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Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. You can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting Preferences → Editing → Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Thanks! —DIYeditor (talk) 16:52, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Taiwan, please make sure that the subject of the article really belongs in the category that you specified according to Wikipedia's categorization guidelines. Categories must also be supported by the article's verifiable content. Categories may be removed if they are deemed incorrect for the subject matter.

It is un-necessary to put the article in Category:East Asian countries – it is already in the more specific Category:Northeast Asian countries (which is, itself, in Category:East Asian countries). I would encourage you to review your other edits for these types of issues. See WP:CATDD. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 18:16, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2019

Hello, I'm Gareth Griffith-Jones. I wanted to let you know that your recent contribution to United Kingdom has been undone. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the help desk. Northern Europe is the geographical region in Europe . Brexit is immaterial. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 07:27, 24 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

February 2020

Hello, I'm Gareth Griffith-Jones. I wanted to let you know that your recent contribution to United Kingdom has, once again, been undone because Geographically we still are! Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 14:42, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

June 2020

Please stop your disruptive editing.

If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at United Kingdom, you may be blocked from editing. If you believe the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands etc. are not part of Northern Europe or Northwest Europe then you will need to start a discussion and achieve consensus of other editors on the respective talk pages, rather than unilaterally deciding that it should be so. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 09:58, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

When editing Wikipedia, there is a field labeled "Edit summary" below the main edit box. It looks like this:

Edit summary (Briefly describe your changes)

I noticed your recent edit to Republic of Ireland does not have an edit summary. Please be sure to provide a summary of every edit you make, even if you write only the briefest of summaries. The summaries are very helpful to people browsing an article's history.

Edit summary content is visible in:

Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. With a Wikipedia account you can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting Preferences → Editing → Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary. Thanks! Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 10:00, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop adding and removing the same items like you did at European cuisine. Also, it looks like you also edit without logging in, using the IP range 2600:8802:500:8d:*. These IPs have the same habit of adding and removing their own edits and often edit the same articles as you. I'd like to make you aware that editing while logged out is mostly allowed (see WP:LOGOUT, but not if it is used inappopriately. Sjö (talk) 07:18, 26 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Flip flop

Could you please be so kind as to stop adding and removing the same content again and again, like you have been doing the last two months at Northern Europe and other articles. It is very confusing for those who are watching an article, and it is irritating to have to check again and again if any changes have been made in the end of the day. All the edits being without an edit summary does not help, either (see WP:EDITSUMMARY). Is there a reason for this? If you are uncertain about whether to add content, I would suggest that you raise it as a question in the talk page. Regards! --T*U (talk) 08:47, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

May I suggest using the Show preview button to check your work before publishing, or utilizing your User Sandbox to test your edits. This may help reduce the number of redundant edits. Note, you can save your work in Sandbox, but Show Preview will not save your progress if you leave that page.
— Christopher, Sheridan, OR (talk) 17:11, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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December 2021

Hello, I'm TylerBurden. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Old Norse have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. Thanks. TylerBurden (talk) 09:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

April 2022

Hello, I'm TylerBurden. I noticed that you recently removed content from Northern Europe without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. TylerBurden (talk) 23:09, 24 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

British Isles and Northern Europe

Vesperius, this endless POV pushing of the British Isles being part of Northern Europe is starting to get very tiring. It is evident what your personal belief is regarding the different definitions, and some reliable sources agree with it, others do not, so why you feel like you have the right to override the contested nature of this topic by objectively including the British Isles as part of Northern Europe I am really not sure. What's even more strange is, you appear to be edit warring with yourself on multiple articles over this. The best thing to do is to lay it out as it is, the definition is contested, and only the non-contested countries should be included in things such as categories, your recent category changes put undue weight on the definition you support, and I've reverted them. I'd rather not escalate this, so I'd appreciate if you could respect the contentious nature of this in the future. Thanks. TylerBurden (talk) 13:18, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will. Vesperius (talk) 22:45, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I guess you won't. I'd say that snarky comment borders on WP:GRAVEDANCING, which seems like a bit of a shitty thing to do after I politely approached you, but that's on you and how you want to behave. Either way, your POV pushing is still disruptive, the UK isn't Scandinavia as much as you seem to want it to be. TylerBurden (talk) 20:08, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I know the British Isles are their own separate thing, same with the Baltics, but they are still considered part of Northern Europe in some definitions. The Baltics ARE part of Northern Europe geographically, culturally and politically, no matter how much you think they aren't. Vesperius (talk) 22:50, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice if you could back that up with sources, I haven't said that they aren't, merely that it's contested just as the British Isles being Northern European is (I'm not sure why you've been pushing that as northern, since based on the things you just mentioned they are western.) Either way, much to your dismay I'm sure, I'm still around and I'm still not going to let you push your personal preferences around on Wikipedia. See you later no doubt. TylerBurden (talk) 22:58, 15 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For one, we have the Nordic-Baltic Eight and the concept of Baltoscandia, with one of the sources in that page confirming Lithuania to be shifting more towards Northern Europe. Vesperius (talk) 01:22, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We're talking geography here, there's no doubt that the Baltic countries cooperate with northern Europe, there is more question if it's defined as northern or eastern, both can be valid depending on how you look at it which is what makes it subjective. Again you're adding categories to articles which support one of the definitions over the other. If we actually look at the Northern Europe article itself, out of the four main definitions we use there, only two of them include the Baltic countries. That's the same as the British Isles. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you, it's not about being "picky", it's about upholding basic Wikipedia concepts like due weight. We can look below, or indeed further in your history on this talk page to see that I've not been the only one having issues with you, and if you won't drop the stick then I'll take this wherever it needs to go because it's clearly disruptive.

As a sidenote, did you know there's a "preview" button you can use for edits? You have this frankly bizzare habit of reverting yourself, so either you're making mistakes or you're quick to regret your edits. I think people for their watchlists sake would appreciate if you would try and make use of that or think through your edits more. You have also been asked to do this before by a different editor. TylerBurden (talk) 01:47, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cats and subcats

I have earlier alerted you to the guideline WP:SUBCAT. It seems, however, that you either have not read it, or that you have not understood it. As an example, you have recently added Category:Central Asian culture and Category:Turkic culture to the article Culture of Turkmenistan. However, that article is already in Category:Turkmenistan culture, which is a subcategory of both those categories. Therefore that article should not be included in those categories. I have not checked all of your recent additions of categories, but it seems that you have violated WP:SUBCAT multiple tines. Could you please stop adding categories to articles unless you have checked that they are not already included through subcats. Also, it would be fine if you self reverted all the additions of such categories, so that no-one else have to clean up the mess you have made. Regards! T*U (talk) 22:51, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any way to mass-revert edits? Because that's going to be a huge pain in the ass. Vesperius (talk) 22:52, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not unless you have rollback rights and access to that kind of tools (which I guess you have not, since you are asking). As I see it, it will be far more painful in the ass of other editors having to clean it up. --T*U (talk) 22:59, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They were meant to be good faith edits, too, as people already started adding the pages of cultures of countries to the respective categories of cultures of the regions, as seen with Turkey. Vesperius (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it would have helped if you had read the guideline when I reverted you here and pointed you to WP:SUBCAT. --T*U (talk) 23:05, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I never got a notification of that revert, so I didn't notice. Vesperius (talk) 23:23, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How (in-)convenient... At least you have been notified now, so please... --T*U (talk) 23:33, 7 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Long term slow burn geographic edit warring and tenditious editing

Okay so you are continuing your what is now long term edit warring, tenditious and disruptive editing around where in Europe certain countries should be. You are, over the long term, continually applying edits to move countries in and out of regions of Europe, contradicting yourself and doing this slowly and repeatedly over years. Make no mistake that performing the same edits over a long period of time is as much edit warring and disruptive editing as doing it over a couple of days or a 24 hour period. If you do not stop this continuous edit warring and pushing of your POV on what regions articles are in I'm going to look into getting you a topic ban on anything geographic or location based broadly construed. This has been going on for years and despite many editors bringing it up to you, shows no sign of abating. At this point I'm actually questioning if you are actually not here to build an encyclopaedia. Canterbury Tail talk 15:13, 6 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've reached clarity in the British Isles being included in Northern Europe, and so won't mess with the region listings any more. Vesperius (talk) 00:30, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anywhere? Or just the British Isles? As this is a problem across a lot of articles, putting things in regions and countries with no sources and slow edit warring over it. Canterbury Tail talk 15:31, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anywhere. Vesperius (talk) 23:44, 7 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So, after years of edit warring with yourself across a number of articles, you have finally reached clarity about the placement of the British Isles (including the Channel Islands, I presume) in Northern Europe. It would be greatly appreciated if you could enlighten the rest of us with the foundation for this decision, since many of us have been of the firm belief that there are no fixed limit for any of the "X-ern Europe" subdivisions (as is also claimed in all the relevant Wikipedia articles) and that the British Isles can be regarded as Northern European in some contexts and Western European (as Eurovoc and the CIA World Factbook among others seem to indicate) in other.

The good thing is, of course, that we will no longer have to spend any more time double checking changes to the "X-ern Europe" and other articles, only to find that you have reverted the reversion of your own revert of an earlier reversion of... Thank you for that! --T*U (talk) 10:04, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's doing research on the UNESCO definition and finding out that they do, in fact, consider the British Isles in Northern Europe, so the UNESCO World Heritage site list here for Western Europe is wrong. The "cultural definition" of Western Europe said list uses is unsourced, anyways, which is why I've brought up in the discussion page that the World Heritage Sites for the British Isles should be moved to the Northern Europe one to keep the lists consistent with the UN definition. Vesperius (talk) 10:57, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1) Could you please give a link to where the UNESCO state that they consider the British Isles to be in Northern Europe. As far as I have found on their web site, they operate with a regional group called "Europe and North America", but I see no further refinement.

2) If some sources say one thing and other sources say another thing, what criteria do you use to decide your 'clarity'. --T*U (talk) 12:59, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I already linked them to you on your talk page: https://whc.unesco.org/en/decisions/2636 and https://whc.unesco.org/en/documents/123152. Even though they use a lowercase n for Northern Europe, as you pointed out, they don't actually divide Europe into regions on their site. As for criteria, I go by the definition most sites use when grouping the countries into regions. In this case, it's the UNSD one. Even the ones that don't follow it have definitions that include the British Isles and Nordic countries but not the Baltics, and vice-versa, with the most restricted only having the Nordic countries. Vesperius (talk) 13:10, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As you say, UNESCO don't actually divide Europe into regions, so there is no foundation for your claim that they consider the British Isles in Northern Europe. As for the regions used by the Statistics Division of the United Nations (UNSD), they state explicitly on the top of their 'Methodology' page: The assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories by the United Nations. There is simply no UN definition, as you claim further up in the thread. And, again as you say, other definitions may include the Baltics or the British Isles, both of them or none of them. In addition, other areas may be included in certain contexts: NW Russia, northern Poland, northern Germany, the Netherlands, and in other contexts even Denmark may be excluded. There is simply no universally accepted definition of any "X-ern Europe" region. The definition of such regions is for convenience and may vary wildly from context to context. So please keep the promise you made in the start of this thread that you won't mess with the region listings any more. Thank you. --T*U (talk) 17:48, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is mind blowing that this is still going on, Vesperius, if you cannot understand the concept of WP:DUE, it's ok to leave the work to people who do. TylerBurden (talk) 18:10, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What did I do wrong this time? Vesperius (talk) 05:28, 12 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The same thing that has apparently been going on for years, I am just expressing disbelief that people still need to come here and raise this issue despite you apparently saying you would stop. Hopefully, this time you're actually true to your word. TylerBurden (talk) 00:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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