Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfredo Gonzalez (baseball)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 23:37, 27 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alfredo Gonzalez (baseball)

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Minor league baseball player, having never played a game and now released. Doesn't meet WP:ATHLETE, or the baseball specific notability guidelines. kelapstick^(bainuu) 21:55, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Baseball-related deletion discussions. kelapstick^(bainuu) 22:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note - This article was previously nominated for deletion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfredo Gonzalez (baseball player) with a decision to keep. BRMo (talk) 03:48, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the previous keeps in that AfD cited CBPL as meeting baseball notability guideline, which I assume was the case back then in 2009, but CBPL is not currently in WP:NBASEBALL. Looks like it'll come down to whether WP:GNG is met.—Bagumba (talk) 07:24, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for picking up the old AfD (which I had nominated). I have added the link to the top of this page. I withdrew my nomination based on the CPBL, but as noted above that is not part of the revised baseball notability guidelines. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 12:34, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I had thought CPBL was kept in NBASEBALL with MLB, NPB and KBO? – Muboshgu (talk) 14:49, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't involved in the discussion, but what is listed there now is:All-American Girls Professional Baseball League, American Association, Cuban League, Federal League, Japanese Baseball League, National Association of Professional Base Ball Players, Negro Major Leagues, Players' League, Union Association. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 14:55, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, as part of that discussion, we decided to drop the CPBL as it was thought to be not of the same quality as the other leagues. It is interesting to note that he was actually called up to the Majors at one point, though he did not appear in a game. Spanneraol (talk) 16:55, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Being called up to the majors is a cool milestone, but the real question is whether the coverage of his career enough to satisfy WP:WHYN. Some players never get called up but have coverage, and some players could conceivably have been called up with little press.—Bagumba (talk) 00:02, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:17, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:17, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:17, 8 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - I'm going to take the same position that I did in the 2009 AfD. (In that AfD, I didn't base my opinion on his play for the CPBL, because I didn't view it as a top tier league.) My reasoning is that with 62 games pitched in AAA over three seasons, and with having been called up by the Dodgers (though not making it into a game), he is right on that boundary between those who made it into the majors and those who didn't. The article isn't long, but there are a couple of short, well-referenced paragraphs containing info that can't simply be culled from bb-ref. Once I regain my access to the LA Times archives (my access is temporarily cut off until I go renew my library card in person), I'll run a search to see if I can locate some other info that isn't available on the public web. I wouldn't be too disappointed if the decision is to delete, but I favor keeping the article. BRMo (talk) 02:30, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep, but only because he was once called up to the majors. Northern Antarctica ₵ 02:40, 10 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment being called up to the majors has never (to my knowledge) been a criterion for notability per wp:athlete or the baseball specific guidelines, it has always been having played at least one game. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 14:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I think we all agree that being called up to the majors doesn't satisfy the criteria being "presumed notable" under WP:BASE/N, and we're discussing notability under the general notability guidelines. I think the fact that he was called up to the majors is one of the things we might consider in determining whether the player received enough coverage from reliable sources (including both the sources cited in the article and others that may not be available on the public web) to satisfy the general notability guideline. BRMo (talk) 17:27, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, I just wanted it stated what that criteria actually is. What are the sources that help pass the GNG? I generally don't consider MLB.com, or a teams website to classify as independent enough, and the Taipai Times is passing mention that he was playing. I can't read the Sports Illustrated article at this time, although the title doesn't reference him.--kelapstick^(bainuu) 19:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    - The articles on MLB.com are written by professional reporters and each article includes a note saying that they are not subject to approval by MLB or the teams. To me the coverage seems similar to what's available from newspaper sites (with the advantage that they don't lock their archives behind a pay wall), so I've always considered them to be reliable sources. BRMo (talk) 03:35, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      - I don't question their reliability, I just don't consider them independent enough for establishing notability, as it is MLB posting articles about MLB or MiLB (irrespective of who actually wrote the article). That is just they way I view it, I know others have differing opinions. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 15:19, 13 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
        For the record, I do view articles on MLB.com like they are essentially newspapers covering the team, but don't think that in this case, MLB.com offers anything more than trivial mentions. Go Phightins! 20:59, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:46, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Meh ... um - probably delete - While there are many articles, none are feature stories, as far as I can tell. For example, Building the Bavasi way features two sentences on him. Spring Training Notes mentions him amidst a list of other players, with no expounding upon the list whatsoever. Even Notes: Brown headed to DL comments very briefly on him; certainly not enough to establish GNG. To me, these seem like a bunch of trivial mentions, and since he never played in a league that would satisfy WP:BASEBALL/N, I cannot really in good faith support keeping the article. However, my vote to delete is rather weak. Go Phightins! 20:57, 16 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 06:29, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:NBASEBALL. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 15:38, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No evidence presented that WP:GNG is met. Specifically, WP:WHYN advises that we need significant coverage so a stand-alone article can be filled, and independent sources are needed for neutral coverage and evidence that non-affiliated sources find the subject significant enough to devote resources to cover. This article would likely be limited to simple promotion/demotion announcements through the minor league system and stats—not very encyclopedia IMO.—Bagumba (talk) 18:07, 25 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, playing in the minor leagues or in the independent leagues does not establish notability. Ashbeckjonathan (talk) 13:30, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG.--Yankees10 18:06, 26 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.