Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Avenger of Blood

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 00:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Avenger of Blood

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From what I am seeing, this subject fails WP:MUSICBIO. The two references on the article thus far look like web sites where personal pages can be created by themselves, so it looks as though the information that was cited on both references is probably self-published. Also, on search engines, the search "Avenger of Blood" provides results for the biblical concept and the Marvel comics group, while "Avenger of Blood band" only returns results for pages the are the equivalent of self-published sources (band sites, "MySpace", etc) and no sources for this subject in any "news" search results. Steel1943 (talk) 03:26, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Steel1943 (talk) 03:31, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This is an article about a non-notable heavy metal band that includes several non-encyclopedic sentences like "Upon its release the band not only received great reviews, but showed them also that the path they were gonna take was well in place." No reviews are cited. And then we have this gem of encyclopedic prose: "After a 3-year break, the band is reorganizing and preparing for its next assault that will be harsher, angrier, and more insane all around!" I wonder what a "Manual of style" purist would say about that exclamation point? My point is that there is nothing worth saving here. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 04:04, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The current content of the article is not a strong argument on whether an article should be deleted or not. As long as the article could be fixed by someone, it should remain.--Retrohead (talk) 18:18, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator comment: Retrohead, that is in no way the basis for my deletion nomination of this article. There are no references from third-party sources that meet the requirements for this subject to be notable per WP:MUSICBIO. An article that has no credible references cannot be improved by anyone since there are no third-party references that confirm the subject's notability; in other words, this is not an issue of editors not wanting to improve the article, but rather editors can't fix the article. Steel1943 (talk) 18:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't fully agree. Here's the band interviewed by Revolver, here's the band interviewed by Terrorizer, and there is dozen of interviews by not-so-notable websites (The Metal Crypt, All Access Magazine, Metalmark, etc.) which were generated by Google and could be easily used for expanding the biography.--Retrohead (talk) 20:51, 24 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please be aware, Retrohead, that interviews are not independent sources, and by themselves, do not establish notability. Please focus on explaining specifically how this particular band meets our notability guideline for bands. So far, I do not see the evidence of notability. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:59, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean by independent sources? In my two year wiki tenure, I've never met that term. Regarding the issue in hand, Avenger of Blood is not an important band as Iron Maiden or Def Leppard, and you won't find them in rock encyclopedias. However, the band has interviews, album and concert reviews by the heavy metal press and I think there is something to be written about them.--Retrohead (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Retrohead, the General notability guideline requires coverage in reliable, independent sources. Please read Wikipedia:Independent sources for in depth discussion of what this means. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:12, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In my opinion, this sounds akin to a WP:ILIKEIT statement; just because you feel as though this band needs an article on Wikipedia doesn't make the subject encyclopedic. Before I nominated this article, I searched for credible sources or information that could help this band establish notability per WP:MUSICBIO (which I highly recommend you read, if you haven't yet; it provides links for information about "independent" sources, "third-party" sources, etc.), and I could not find any; all information I found were as mentioned above: either self-published material on "band sites", or interviews from sources that are not credible in regards to establishing notability in an encyclopedia. That, and as you stated above: ...you won't find them in rock encyclopedias..., if this subject is not even mentioned in "rock encyclopedias" (whose notability requirements are probably not as strict as a multi-subject encyclopedia due to only allowing a specific genre of subjects), then how do you believe that this band is notable enough for inclusion here? Steel1943 (talk) 19:02, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It fullfils point 5 from the criteria for musicians and ensembles, with two studio albums on major label–Heavy Artillery. Second thing, album reviews are independent sources, and band interviews may not be independent, but count as reliable because the magazines are shipped worldwide and have editorial overview.--Retrohead (talk) 12:47, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if a label can be considered a "major label" if the label itself is not an encyclopedic subject. When I did a search for "heavy artillery", I only received results for the weaponry. In fact, WP:MUSICBIO itself refers to "major labels" as is referenced in major record labels, and there seems to be only six (now three due to absorptions) that are considered "major record labels" for the WP:MUSICBIO notability criteria. Steel1943 (talk) 00:34, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You can consider it an indie labels, as it has a roster of artists (in the link above) and exist more than a few years.--Retrohead (talk) 12:16, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MUSICBIO also states that for an artist on an indie label to be considered notable, the label has to have ...a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable.... Per a look at their artist list, I don't believe that any of their artists are independently notable. Steel1943 (talk) 12:43, 28 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Nevada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 04:03, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - only coverage I could find was on niche blogs and such. Not a notable group. Fyddlestix (talk) 18:49, 31 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.